Topic: New Article in the War Room: Beating the Lizard

[deepfat]

Wow thanks for the help Atchman and Deepfat, you have both been a LOT of help.
Deepfat would you mind if I took your rewording as it is and add it straight to the article?  I will of course mention that you Atchman and Karl helped me to write the article.

Thats no problem, just glad I could help.

I will proof read the article myself first Deepfat and then send it on to yourself to be rechecked, is this ok?.
Thank you all for the help.  

Again not a problem, just forward it on to me when your done.

Following on frm Calvins point, perhaps start a thread asking for proof readers in the Imperial office, like Rufus did with his theme guide for the various proviences.

cheers,

stewart

[Atchman]

And Atch, you haven't looked in the war room? Half the articles in there are by you for chrissake.

Is that a bad thing?

Just FYI, I usually write articles about armies that I have a hard time defeating.  I've stopped and started the Lizardman article so many times.  I just can't think of any exceptional way to beat them except Knights and Shooting.  That is because Knights and Shooting will beat them almost every time.  When I play against Lizardmen, I know I will beat them, because my lists usually are strong on Knights and S4 shooting.  In the last two years, I've never lost to Lizardmen, even with my pathetic tourney record.   I've had a draw-once.  

The won-loss record totally changes when I play my other armies against them.  They usually beat my Undead armies to a pulp!  I think I would concede with my Dwarves rather than torture myself playing against LM.  My Orcs about half the time, but then again Orcs have a hard time against skirmishing armies anyway.  My Goblin army does very well against them.  While I have no ST 4 shooting, I do have ST 4 magic missiles and 10 fanatics, backed up by over 90 Night Goblin archers.  Even NG archers can kill Skinks!  

With that being said, I think LM are a good list.  Against the "evil" armies, they are an exceptional list.  Against High Elves or Dark Elves, I'll bet they are excellent.  Empire is one of the armies that they will struggle against, depending on the configuration of the list.  A balanced Beastmen list will give them fits, because they totally negate the skink skirmishers.  I think LM will beat Dwarves everytime.   Undead will struggle against LM, because they have so many freaking attacks!   A Saurus unit versus Skeletons or Zombies is just insanely good!  All in all, a good army list, not a great one.  Kinda like Empire!

[Karl Schimmelfennig]

No, the articles by you are a good thing. I was just surprised you'd never read through them since writing them, or any other articles for that matter.  

[bigrin42]

I've never even looked in there.  

No, the articles by you are a good thing. I was just surprised you'd never read through them since writing them, or any other articles for that matter.

I think Atch was saying that he never looked in the Imperial Office forum.  Not that he never looked at the War Room.

[Entropius]

As a Lizard player, I can offer a few more bits of advice on how to deal with the scaly ones:

--If he brings salamanders, you're going to have to do something about them. They will eat your infantry alive, will make a mess of any war machines they can get in range of, and will roast pistolier units in one shot. "Do something about them" can mean not letting them get shots in on anything you especially care about, but either way, they're going to have to be dealt with.

--Saurus units don't mind being flanked as much as many things. A Saurus unit that takes a fully-ranked unit in the front and a detachment in the flank, while starting five down, will get a big pile of attacks back and -- if a BSB is around, which one usually will be -- will often refuse to break until it munches through your detachment.

--Don't waste firepower on a stegadon unless you really, really need to (to stop it from flanking something, for instance.) The things are durable, even under cannon fire (5+ "you hit a skink" save, 5 wounds), and don't weaken until they're all-the-way-dead. You'll often be better off shooting at kroxigors or even terradons, especially if the terradons are away from the general.

--The Jaguar Saurus of Doom is a war-machine muncher. About the best you can do is flee the crew and kill the now-vulnerable lizard with something else nearby (remember grapeshot!)

--Lizards have trouble with things with high armor saves: knights, in the Empire case. Just keep them away from the kroxigors, and remember that Lizards are incredibly hard to break on the charge: you don't want to get them stuck someplace and then get kroxies/a Jag Saurus with a great weapon in your flank.

--You have a huge range advantage. Lizard shooting is brutal, but it's all short-ranged. The last thing you want to do is come to the Lizard player with infantry, even if it seems like you have to in order to get at a unit of Salamanders. They'll just scoot back and blow more things up.

--Don't even bother engaging temple guard with infantry. Flanks or no, you won't break them, and they'll make a mess. (If you can get cavalry stuck in their flank, though, you can pin them in place.) Shoot the temple guard, not the slann: you won't kill it without a lot of luck, and then you'll have a rather ticked-off pile of lizards on top of you that don't pay 18 points a model just to be hard to break.

--Keep Pistoliers away from Skinks if you can.

[Kyle]

The article has just been updated, I look forward to seeing Atchman's Lizardmen article too.

[IH8Skaven]

Divine Plaque of Protection (2+ save versus shooting):

I'm not completely familiar with the lizards.  Only played against them four times since the book release, but doesn't that 2+ ward go away after it's failed?  And if it does, wouldn't I be compelled to fire every piece of cheap shooting that I have-- archers, handgunners, even a good hellblaster volley ought to fix that.

[queek]

there is an item in the Lizzy list that gives a 2+ ward against the first wound suffered, but the typical item given to a Slann is completely different.

[Clarkarias]

The Slann item just increases his already impressive 4+ ward save to a 2+ against shooting.  In essence, you'll have to find another way to kill a slann.

Brass Orb for you Skaven fans