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Author Topic: Steam Tank: Alternative take.  (Read 8855 times)

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Posts: 420
Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« on: May 15, 2009, 10:22:49 PM »
Ahoy mateys. So we have our loverly steam tank, and its ability to hit like an elephant...I SAY IT NEEDS MORE DAKKA! Bring back the options, the cool toys, and other fun stuff that was Imperial-worthy...yet make it more...unreliable? Muahahahaha!

Here are some suggestions to help kick of making the tank fun yet deadly:

1) Extra points for improved reliability. Allow either cheap yet temperamental tanks, or allow upgrades to buffer against steam loss (Advanced cooling system: Counts as being +2 wounds for purposes of rolling to generate steam, up to the original wound total), or for terrain purposes (Spiked Front: May move through forests as normal. Impact hits on the charge count as armor-piercing).
2) A more colorful set of rules for misfires...When a tank builds up TOO much steam, I would like to see every unit in b2b with the vehicle take D6 s2 hits with no armor save, as it attempts to vent steam at the last minute. If this is too unbalanced (Say people try tank-bombing), reduce to d3. Alternatively, rules to inflict crew damage could be interesting if game-bogging...this would involve improved testing.
3) Acceleration/deceleration: One of the weirder things about the steam tank is I'm able to use it like a slow helicopter, moving it side to side and circle-strafing chariots with cannon-fire due to the 90-degree pivot rules...having some sort of acceleration/turn limitations would be rather nice, and add more unpredictability.
4) More weapon options: Fighting platforms! With multiple repeater handgunners hiding on top! I want this!
5) Fix it so buffs work on it like normal; the Steam Tank, alongside any crew on top, is a single unit...Bring on Second Sign and Celestial Shield tanks. :P

Offline Ganymede

  • Posts: 297
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2009, 10:34:29 PM »
I don't think making the steam tank even more complicated is a good idea.

Offline Helgrim

  • Posts: 556
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2009, 01:03:28 PM »
I honestly don't think the steam tank is complicated. As long as rules are clear and the intention of each rule is not open to interpretation, I say make cool rules. We need to assuming everyone has the intelligence of a 5  year old, otherwise we may devolve into a situation where every monster follows the same rules with ever so slightly different stats.

Then where would we be?? 40k!! :Ohmy:

Offline Ganymede

  • Posts: 297
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2009, 02:03:32 PM »
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word complicated. I should have said that I don't think we should have a contrived ruleset. It isn't just about making rules easy to understand; there is an elegance in simplicity.

Offline patsy02

  • Posts: 5687
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Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2009, 03:22:02 PM »
I don't really think the tank needs much change, other than fixing the useless hull cannon and giving back the old tank varieties.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10153
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 07:40:02 AM »
I would like rules vor Van Zeppel tanks.

GW promised it  :icon_cry:

Offline Obi

  • Posts: 6226
  • Rest in peace Nate
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 11:35:56 AM »
They did?

In any case, the tank is fine. It's a shame we don' have the options (fighting platform et.) to choose from, but the rules from this edition are so much better. The rules from 6th were impossible to understand if you didn't play Empire. Like Ganymede said, there is an elegance in simplicity
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

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Offline MagicJuggler

  • Posts: 420
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 05:04:47 PM »
Also while we're at it, bring back the Soup Tank! The halfling soupmobile shall see light again!

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 06:08:44 PM »
I'd like to see a menu of non steam powered weapons and other upgrades to the tank, like maybe a trailer hitch for a war wagon.  A good steam powered weapon would be belt driven mower blades or sheaf cutting blades like I've seen demontrated on some antique farm equipment, turning the front into essentially a snow blower to drive into units of enemy infantry would certainly warrant the terror check.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Union General

  • Posts: 829
  • Kicking butt since 1863.
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 04:35:50 PM »
I'd like to see a menu of non steam powered weapons and other upgrades to the tank, like maybe a trailer hitch for a war wagon.  A good steam powered weapon would be belt driven mower blades or sheaf cutting blades like I've seen demontrated on some antique farm equipment, turning the front into essentially a snow blower to drive into units of enemy infantry would certainly warrant the terror check.

Like this?

http://rgsrr.home.comcast.net/~rgsrr/picts/rgs/drg-rotaryOY-1989.jpg

 :biggriin:
-The General
I like your thinking  Mr. General  what a Genius

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2009, 05:42:51 AM »
a little more like one of these
http://www.freewebs.com/firepenguin/history%203%20compare%20snow%20eaters.jpg

or the business end on a combine theshing machine, permanently mounted to a tractor like this, which could have a deck of engineers riding on the roof.

http://www.dcnyhistory.org/Fact_Fancy/images/12.07.jpg

http://share.triangle.com/sites/share-uda.triangle.com/files/images/Java55_SteamTractor_17-May-08.preview.JPG

http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/8A54F603-4287-4518-BB98-639F15CCAE71/0/Harvesters_intro_566x228.jpg

cut em off at the knees, knock em on the head, grind em up and spit em out for the ogre winnowing crew.

could call the tank, Morr's harvester.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 05:49:54 AM by der Hurenwiebel »
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Posts: 420
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009, 01:39:17 PM »
Some more silly upgrade ideas:

Vertical Mounting: The tank is now mounted on a 50x50 base.

Dozer Blade: The tank treats difficult terrain as difficult terrain.

The idea is to allow for Steam-Walker conversions. Of course, even without a vertical mounting upgrade, one could always do a Steam AT-AT...of course, an option to add troop transport capability would be appreciated...

Offline Inarticulate

  • Posts: 1553
I for one welcome our new flying cat overlords.

Offline Chr1s-Cross

  • Posts: 23
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 02:44:47 PM »
I don't think the steam gun is very good at the moment, except against knights, so how about you get to choose from these options for the turret of the steam tank:
             o steam gun
             (normal steam gun rules)
             o flame gun
             s4, flaming attack, use flame template
             o repeater handgun turret
             s4, 2D6 shots, Bs4 (engineer commander's ballistic skill)
             

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 12:35:18 AM »
all par cost or extrapoints for these?
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Chr1s-Cross

  • Posts: 23
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 11:14:44 AM »
I think the steam gun should be free, but the other upgrades should cost extra points - the machine gun one costing the most - how about they take the stand-and-shoot of the engineer commander away? He doesn't sound like he does much, and do you think it might free up any points?

Offline sometimesnj8

  • Posts: 8
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2009, 01:26:32 AM »
i had enough problems with the rules for it already. it took me 4 games before i used it properly. its good as is.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2009, 05:16:33 PM »
I'm currently converting one of my plastic S-tanks to have essentially a flamethrower turret cannon and a gatling gun, which will have verticle magazines and a glacis plate.

The other one will have two helblasters/helstorms (they'll be magnetized) in place of the steam gun on the turret.

how would you make rules for those.

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline The Dice-Shaman

  • Posts: 68
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2009, 07:02:58 AM »
I agree on the uselessness of the steam gun and would venture to add the 18" cannon to that.  Besides, my model is cursed and no matter what enchanted dice I use I have always rolled a misfire when shooting the cannon.  Which means that it is a giant ram and I want more Hull Points like the old versions could have when sacrificing firepower!

But really, Stanks are far from unbeatable with the current system.  They can't fight on the enemy's turn in a 6 round game....duh!  and if their points get halved they basically can't risk movement or firing. Artillery and big baddies love them. That's why I use a Stank for ONE THING:

The Aggro Magnet!  Please deposit all heavy spells, bolts & shot, or any other hurtful things here and leave my infantry alone so they can do their job.  :Ohmy:

Once again, thanks but NO thanks Grahm McNiel! (May his soul burn in the 7th hell for eternity.)
If your Speculum falls into a river of lava, don't reach in after it.  It's already gone bro...

Offline Sir Lukas von Markov

  • Posts: 127
  • Trust in Sigmar for Deliverance
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 11:36:09 AM »
 hey the stank is awesome, sure if you use it like a big ram and it starts to lose wounds it becomes useless, but a potential 18 auto hit S6 attacks just makes a mess of stuff, and if you hit a unit of troops, on the charge there will be none left alive to strike back anyway, so you just need to keep it a way from nasties and let it grind through enemy units with low strength attacks, if its below S5 dig in, in my experience its grinds through anything, even treemen, and the Treeman charged!!! in my opinion it kicks arse.

hey does the Warp Lightning Cannon still have special effects against the Stank??
I bring my armybook, my laptop with armybuilder, and a cotton swab I wiped on my neighbors cold-sores.  If I catch the guy cheating, so help me he is getting a face full of herpes...

Offline MagicJuggler

  • Posts: 420
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 11:54:19 PM »
The Warp Lightning Cannon has received its update so it's basically a bouncing template; I doubt it would have the same effects as it did under 6th edition.

I would like to see Hellstorm Tanks by all means though, or walker tanks as mentioned. Maybe an adaptation to make steam tanks amphibious (DDay Funny Tanks), or with the ability to drop ordnance over an area. (Minelayer Steam Tanks would be hilarious in their ability to disrupt the maneuver-game).

Offline Auberoun

  • Posts: 715
  • Moguling the crap out of life.
Re: Steam Tank: Alternative take.
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2009, 06:32:18 AM »
Although I could see where the current rules would be confusing to some, it would be nice to see point options for different types of stanks.  (Simalar to the Leman Russ Variants in 40K IG)  It wouldn't be that hard to make simple consise rules, that are easy enough to understand, yet fit in with the feel of the Empire.  Now, the problem lies with fluff.  Since only 8 are in exsistence in the current fluff, and they don't know how to make more necessarily, (yet they can make a robo-horse?  :eusa_wall: )  Where would these variants "come from" ? 
The world you believe is reality is a puppet show!