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Author Topic: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!  (Read 16520 times)

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 08:38:22 PM »
yeah according to the fluff, dwarfs aren't really tinkerers.  All the most famous dwarf tikerers were kicked out of their respected guilds.  The empire on the other hand provides a venue to those rebelious tinkerers who in turn inspire the human tinkerers in the engineers collegium. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Odominus

  • Posts: 1933
  • Winter is Coming
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2009, 03:45:30 AM »
I think it is ok as it is. But shouldn't it be able to stand and shoot? ::heretic::
Odo drops the bombs and laughs at all the clucking.

......, it would really help if you did research before spouting your opinion...

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2009, 05:15:51 AM »
you'd think so, wouldn't you.

I always viewed the helblaster as being essentially a mitrailleuse.  Some of the RW ones had 128 barrels, set into a slight cone so that at 100 yards this cone was pedictably X yards across by Y high, reload time was about the same as a cannon at the time mainly to allow the barrels to properly cool, special multibarrel swab tools were devised for this as well as cartridgeplates which would hold the round to be loaded in the gun, and fired with a single primer.   The barrels were apparently devised so that they would vent flame into thier neighbors igniting them in series for a near simultaneous shot sounding like heavy canvas ripping. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

  • Posts: 1033
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 09:35:29 AM »
If you were within that target area it was like being hit by really big shotgun pellets.

Cool.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline Helborg

  • Posts: 669
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2009, 08:45:25 AM »
Depending on how many pts your game is the Helblaster can be AWESOME  :happy: . It's still feared by many players at my LGS and it still extremely effective. At 500pts, you get a few good turns of shooting at the enemy's larger units and can easily crumble them down to five men per unit, at which point your state troopers can mop up the survivours :) Helblaster = awesome :) .

Sanj
i should really pull my trousers up now.  :icon_eek:

Offline Dracos

  • Posts: 71
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2009, 01:05:00 AM »
Helblaster's pretty good as is.

I normally take 2 and either team them with a unit of Knights, using them to deny a certain area of the board. This often enables the Knights a free run to my opponents flanks later in the game. Or place them right along side my infantry moving them 4 inches forward on Turn One making my opponent engage or be destroyed by combined Cannon and Volley Gun fire.

I like the ideal of the Engineer upgrade. Currently Engineers are a fluff only choice. They'd have to cost enough to balance the upgrade but would probably be worth it if the Dwarf book is any standard to go by.

36 inch range would require a cost increase that would probably be unacceptable.

Either way, just like we all are disgusted by the current run of Deathstars and uber-cavalry, I think we can see what evil would ensue with a return the the Helblasters previous incarnation

Offline bornbm01

  • Posts: 122
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2009, 03:18:16 AM »
After reading the stats and probabilities of the Helblaster in the War Room. I'd say its potential isnt bad really.  It still is a threat, even if its not going to wipe a unit.  Also, the 24 inch range sucks but it makes sense; its more of a defensive weapon than a long bomb barrage.    With the way that people love to use large target, Terror causing, Monsters of Doom , the Helblaster can protect our lines.   Using a helblaster or 2 with 2 Great Cannons seems like a pretty good answer to Monsters and DeathStars  - Am I missing something?
- Brendan

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
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Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2009, 05:55:51 AM »
possibly, the last several times I've taken mine out they haven't really paid for themselves.  Tend to blow themselves up a lot, or get charged and not be able to stand and shoot, no fun. but whatever your milage may vary.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline polybus11

  • Posts: 764
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 03:22:22 PM »
I think maybe they could just add the ability of an Engineer to reroll Artillery dice for a Helblaster.  That might make both tempting.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2009, 06:30:34 PM »
Yes, Yes it would, a 2 4 or misfire would be worth rerolling, maybe not so much a 4 but it would be tempting. 

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline scarletsquig

  • Posts: 797
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2009, 10:55:14 AM »
After reading the stats and probabilities of the Helblaster in the War Room. I'd say its potential isnt bad really.  It still is a threat, even if its not going to wipe a unit.  Also, the 24 inch range sucks but it makes sense; its more of a defensive weapon than a long bomb barrage.    With the way that people love to use large target, Terror causing, Monsters of Doom , the Helblaster can protect our lines.   Using a helblaster or 2 with 2 Great Cannons seems like a pretty good answer to Monsters and DeathStars  - Am I missing something?
Nope, you've got it figured... thanks for reading the war room article first.

Helblaster is pretty well balanced at the moment, fact is we had an overpowered unit back in 6th, especially with it's ability to decimate skirmishers.

I wouldn't mind seeing the option to fire all 9 barrels (in exchange for 2 turns of reloading) at once returning, that was crazy fun back in 5th.

Ratling gun is getting a similar "to hit" nerf to tone it down in the next skaven book.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 10:57:32 AM by scarletsquig »

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2009, 07:55:46 PM »
Well it's good they are nerfing down the ratling guns.  Are they doing something similar to their jezzails?

then we'd have to go back and rewrite the vamps, demons, delfs and helfs, to reachive balance.

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Union General

  • Posts: 829
  • Kicking butt since 1863.
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2009, 08:02:13 PM »
Well it's good they are nerfing down the ratling guns.  Are they doing something similar to their jezzails?

then we'd have to go back and rewrite the vamps, demons, delfs and helfs, to reachive balance.

GW wants to make more money off the Big Three. The mega-units aren't going anywhere.
-The General

EDIT: Sorry, I'm in a very cynical mood at the moment.  :ph34r:
I like your thinking  Mr. General  what a Genius

Offline bornbm01

  • Posts: 122
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2009, 04:20:45 PM »
thanks for backing me up Ssquig.  As has been mentioned before , the role of the helblaster has changed.  It is a support unit for the line and not the Heavy Bolter it once was.  At least, people have stopped complaining about facing it.
- Brendan

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2009, 12:22:38 AM »
I play a helblaster in every empire list I field.
It can be useful in infantry support in the first turn when moving forward but I find it is far better an area denial weapon.

People who don't know actually blanch when they see it put on the field.
I place one down in front of a high elf player and he thought it only had a 18inch range like the dwarf organ gun back in last ed.

He never forgot it. lol

But primarily people avoid it, like my twenty man unit of GS with a general, they could easily deal with it but seem to want to go for easy pickings
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline Inarticulate

  • Posts: 1553
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2009, 12:55:30 AM »
Psychological warfare eh? It also helps if you dress up in warpaint and ritually scar yourself around the third turn.
I for one welcome our new flying cat overlords.

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2009, 02:49:54 AM »
Yeah painting of the warpaint does seem to intimidate even chaos players. . .

Yeah psychological warfare with helblasters. . . a favoured tactic lol
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2009, 05:47:43 PM »
with the changed role of the helblaster isn't the outrider unit a better fit for that role as well as less likely to misfire and able to stand and shoot. 

I say change the role of the helblaster back to the way it was.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2009, 11:30:14 PM »
Yeha I don't have any outriders yet. Although I am toying with the idea of them with barding and being an infantry support platform
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2009, 07:41:35 AM »
They would do a fantastic job of warmachine defense, what with 360  line of sight no misfire chart, and the same range as a helblaster.  Hell really they do a better job of it than a helblaster because if it comes down to it they can move closer to and or pursue ballistic skirmishers who may ba harrassing the warmachines.  Something a warmachine really ought not do. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Derek Contyre

  • Posts: 1752
  • Duke of Nueremburg
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2009, 08:34:44 AM »
Hmmm I may think about fitting them into an army list, maybe instead of the greatswordsmen. . . choices choices.
But then if I dropped the greatswordsmen I wont have a bodyguard for my general!!! NOOOOOOOO

well looks like the pistoliers are going to go.
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Ludwig

  • Guest
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2010, 05:39:18 PM »
Hellblaster volleygun

Sames rules except :

Range 24''   
distances     To hit :
under 4"    : auto hit
4 to 8"       : 2+
8 to 12"     : 3+
12 to 16     : 4+
16 to 20     : 5+
20 to 24     : 6+

Others to hit modifiers still applied

This way the dispersion of grapeshots are well represented and does not depend on the competence of the servants but on the mechanism of the machine. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 02:40:56 PM by Ludwig »

Offline red bull

  • Posts: 956
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2010, 03:37:43 PM »
Hellblaster volleygun

Sames rules except :

Range 24''   
distances     To hit :
under 4"    : auto hit
4 to 8"       : 2+
8 to 12"     : 3+
12 to 16     : 4+
16 to 20     : 5+
20 to 24     : 6+

Others to hit modifiers still applied

This way the dispersion of grapeshots are well represented and does not depend on the competence of the servants but on the mechanism of the machine.


I like these rules, they seem to solve the problem.
No matter how good a general you are; if the dice are against you, you will not win.

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Offline kenneth-b

  • Posts: 4
Re: Give me my Frigin' Hellblaster Back!
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2010, 11:25:02 PM »
After the new rules i only used the mean machine once. A game vs Vampires. Let it loose on a unit of skeletons, 18 shots no misfire, great start. 3 hits after rolling to hit, 2 wounds on skeletons! 2 WOUNDS ON BONY VERSION OF EMPIRE WARRIORS!!! Gotta say, that i will never use it again! I see it this way, cannons dont need BS, all because they can misfire. Boltthrowers can't misfire, but need BS to hit. You can't do both! Simply can't!
New edt of empire is a mix match of goods and REALLY bads! my volley gun now can't put a stick in a shit, without ruining both! Why is my engineer at BS 4, when a capt. and gen. is at 5? The man trained his whole life using a gun, and even an outrider champion outshoots him? WHY!? What happened to the T4 Flagellants, now they just, sort of die like... normal, nonsave T3 units with a WS of 2. Empire is slowly crumbling away, while highelves gets always strike first, and dark elves gets eternal hatred!
We were fine, before GW intervened our crusade of blackpowder mass destruction!!!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 11:27:43 PM by kenneth-b »