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Author Topic: New and Improved Mortar  (Read 8041 times)

Offline Ganymede

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New and Improved Mortar
« on: June 03, 2009, 05:12:38 PM »
In the current list, the mortar suffers from a bit of a redundancy problem. Not only does the hellstorm do everything better than the mortar, but the mortar's role itself is a role largely unneeded in an empire army. The mortar excels at damaging weak, plentiful infantry, but this kind of infantry is a foe that the Empire already easily deals with  through their flanking knights and detatchments.

In an effort to improve the flexbility and utility of the mortar, I propose this very simple change. Allow the mortar two modes of fire. One mode can represent its current 5" diameter blast. The second mode of fire would be the traditional stone thrower shot, an attack better at dealing with knights, monsters, elite infantry, and cavalry than the regular strength three mortar round.

With this change, (along with a possible price increase) I feel the mortar would be seen as more of an equal partner with the cannon than a subordinate choice.

Offline Union General

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 03:14:05 AM »
An ability to fire indirect would be interesting. Being able to pick off units hiding behind trees would be an incredibly useful ability against ANY army.
I think.
-The General
I like your thinking  Mr. General  what a Genius

Offline Obi

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 01:06:30 PM »
Yes, indirect fire would be nice.

BTw- you are aware something can't be both 'new' AND 'improved', right?
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

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Offline Zalminen

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2009, 01:49:31 PM »
Indirect fire would be interesting.

It should still require LOS from some friendly unit and should perhaps make the shot scatter a little more but i'm not sure how much...

Offline Ganymede

  • Posts: 297
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 02:21:49 PM »
What on earth are you all taking about. I didn't propose indirect fire in my posted changes.

Offline Union General

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 10:29:25 PM »
Yes, but these threads are open for all who wish to throw in their own input on stuff people propose for the next book.  :wink:
-The General
I like your thinking  Mr. General  what a Genius

Offline Ganymede

  • Posts: 297
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 12:35:12 AM »
Haha, I just thought you misread my post or something. I read it again to make sure something wasn't being misinterpreted.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 11:22:05 PM »
I'd like to see the Mortar be able to attack troops in forest and buildings as well as destroy both.

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline cisse

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2009, 05:37:34 AM »
Mortar - indirect fire, and perhaps either a higher S or (not and) no AS allowed. As it is now, it just doesn't hit hard enough to warrant the use of a special slot (in most cases).

Indirect fire sounds nice, too. Perhaps with a +1"on the scatter roll?
cisse

No matter how fast you run, your ass will always be in front of me...

Offline Obi

  • Posts: 6226
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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 02:14:40 PM »
Haha, I just thought you misread my post or something. I read it again to make sure something wasn't being misinterpreted.
No, you weren't. We all just like IF better. :)

Nothing, personal though. Seriously.
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

caveat lector
I killed a duck with a spear, can't read train timetables though
"To be is to do"-Socrates;
"To do is to be"-Sartre;
"Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra

Offline Ganymede

  • Posts: 297
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 09:43:56 PM »
I don't see how the mortar is so fundamentally different from other stone throwers that it would warrant the ability to fire indirectly.

Offline Obi

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 05:25:51 AM »
Now, that's where the engineer comes in.
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

caveat lector
I killed a duck with a spear, can't read train timetables though
"To be is to do"-Socrates;
"To do is to be"-Sartre;
"Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 06:46:37 AM »
Put in a rule that so long as someone in the empire army can see the target and isn't in combat, or the target has marked itself, by shooting or moving into a terrain piece while an empire model had line of sight on it, the mortar can target it.  This would be one time when a journeyman Ballistics technician, or master engineer, would come in handy. 

I would like to see an option to buy HE rounds for the mortar +25 points = +2 S overall  For those abilities I'd lay plates all over the battlefield.   Yes a direct hit from a mortar should be able to destroy a chariot outright. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline wardenmunger

  • Posts: 256
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2009, 05:41:44 PM »
I think that different types of rounds would be cool. Like gas filled rounds, that give any unit they hit a -1 to hit when shooting or in combat(gas stings their eyes!) and -1 to leadership.

Or incendiary rounds that burn that turn and again at the start or their next round as the fire burns on. Just like trebuchets fireing rotting corpses at the enemy.
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Offline Chr1s-Cross

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 02:53:56 PM »
I think that different types of rounds would be cool. Like gas filled rounds, that give any unit they hit a -1 to hit when shooting or in combat(gas stings their eyes!) and -1 to leadership.

Or incendiary rounds that burn that turn and again at the start or their next round as the fire burns on. Just like trebuchets fireing rotting corpses at the enemy.
I like the idea of that! How about cluster bomb rounds, that explode once with a 5 inch template, then you use several, smaller, three inch templates, that scatter out from the original explosion, and kill even more enemy troops, but at less strength?

Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 03:05:00 PM »
Oh... it could use the apocalypse template....
 
While we're at it, load it with plasma grenades and have the crew fire lightnings from their arse....  :closed-eyes:
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Offline Union General

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 03:13:38 PM »
Oh... it could use the apocalypse template....

Which one?  :engel:
I like your thinking  Mr. General  what a Genius

Offline Rodman49

  • Posts: 217
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 11:51:31 PM »
Why don't we just make the mortar a 2 for one special choice?  Think about 2 Ordnance templates per shooting phase for only 150 points.  The mortar shouldn't compete with the Cannon for slots but it should be competing with Outriders for slots - both being different applications of mass low-strength firepower.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 12:07:33 AM »
why shouldn't it compete with the cannons or any other special choice.  Make the points cost equitable cannon are good for taking out big hard things mortars for defeating armour and mass destruction wholesale.  Cannons, more accurate mortars less so. Engineers can fix either.  Any of the artillery pieces should be points interchangable depending on the intention of the player.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Rodman49

  • Posts: 217
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2009, 04:50:16 PM »
why shouldn't it compete with the cannons or any other special choice.  Make the points cost equitable cannon are good for taking out big hard things mortars for defeating armour and mass destruction wholesale.  Cannons, more accurate mortars less so. Engineers can fix either.  Any of the artillery pieces should be points interchangable depending on the intention of the player.

Your suggestions make the Helstorm obsolete though.  Most of the artillery roles are currently covered:

Cannon - Big Game Hunter
Mortar - Anti-Light Infantry
Helstorm - Anti-Heavy Infantry
Helblaster - Area Denial

Making the mortar stronger in any way makes it infringe too much of the Helstorm.  Giving it the possibility to destroy buildings and what not is also insane as that is what a cannon is for.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
Re: New and Improved Mortar
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2009, 06:55:41 PM »
again.  So. with the multiple randomizers inherent to the helstom only a rookie or fluff general would rely on one.  With an option to spend an extra 25 points on a mortar for helstorm strength, you'd get a slightly more accurate weapon to take in mass numbers and probably still miss all your targets.  Even with 4 of them, (damn scatter dice) at least with a mortar you don't have to roll them TWICE! (razza frazza)

also Cannons do not knock down trees or otherwise destroy terrain, just ask any beastie or hippy elf player.  But they should, (mutter mutter)
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.