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Author Topic: without a cannon  (Read 11907 times)

Offline GenOmar

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without a cannon
« on: August 06, 2012, 05:37:29 PM »
guys,
do we still have a chance without our beloved cannons? ::heretic::
running 2 HBCG's w/ engy
2 blocks of DGK's w/ musu (one with BWH WP)
cannons seem to have a finite purpose, what else can fill the role slotted for our cannons?
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Offline FriscoEmpire

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 05:44:10 PM »
I love my cannon.  Please don't take away my cannon.  I have two of them and would like to buy two more.  I think I'd just set them up and smile at them.  They're grand.

The only alternative for me would be a Stank.  But that's just a cannon with pizzazz.

I honestly don't know what else I could field that would make me comfortable facing major enemy characters that mine can't hope to stand toe to toe against when they get in close.

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Offline Drmooreflava

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 07:17:41 PM »
An Amber Wizard with the Amber Spear spell would be able to take place of a cannon, and it can't miss.. If the spell goes off. All the while having the option to buff your units/characters with other spells. An option Empire benefits a lot from due to the average to below average statlines of humans.

If you are wondering about options to replace it outside of the character sections, I'd say there isn't anything that can do what a great cannon does. The stank is just too expensive to use it purely as a cannon and you really want your cannon to shoot every turn if possible (obviously). This is where the stank just can't keep up with a great cannon because the stank needs to get into combat to avoid enemy cannons and spells while holding up a nasty enemy unit. I don't see much room for the stank's cannon unless it is turn 1 or turn 2, the rest of the game you will probably be charging/grinding/steam gunning.
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Offline satch

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 07:47:10 PM »
luminarks bound spell works pretty well! and apart from that the cannon is used to destroy multiwound tough creatures like monsters and chariots and things.

I would suggest a good replacement is the grand master /w runefang
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Offline Drmooreflava

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 10:16:23 PM »
Quick question, off topic sorry.

Can you take a dismounted grandmaster?

I don't see any rules saying you can't, but he comes with the horse which makes me wonder.
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Offline Darknight

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 10:33:02 PM »
I don't think you can -  nothing in the rules says you can dismount a model and field as infantry (otherwise, you could dismount GW Knights and field them as Core greatswords without Stubborn :) )
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Offline Quickbeam

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 10:34:35 PM »
Quote from: Darknight on August 06, 2012, 10:33:02 PM
I don't think you can -  nothing in the rules says you can dismount a model and field as infantry (otherwise, you could dismount GW Knights and field them as Core greatswords without Stubborn :) )
that would be pretty darn cool though!
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Offline Darknight

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 10:36:46 PM »
At about double the points cost . . . .
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Offline FriscoEmpire

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 10:45:36 PM »
Cannon and Stank alternative:  Mount two Helblaster Volley Guns to the War Altar of Sigmar (one of the earlier versions, where you have some room for them), manned by an Engineer and the Arch Lector . . . and give them a Demigryph honor guard.

Can you imagine the hell that could deal out if you rolled that onto the battlefield?
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Offline Quickbeam

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 10:49:06 PM »
Quote from: Darknight on August 06, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
At about double the points cost . . . .
I wish it was like WAB where you could choose to dismount them............
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Offline Noght

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 11:18:17 PM »
No reason to leave the cannon at home.  It nueters everything on 50mm, chariot, or Monster base.  All for 120 and it's like flipping laser guided now.

Noght
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Offline Count

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 01:26:30 AM »
Cannons to Empire players are like American Express cards to businessmen...you don't want to leave home without it...and why should you...
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Offline Engineer Edward

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 02:11:24 AM »
I did in a game last week. I took a Luminark instead "just in case", maybe a Steam Tank too

Bad idea. Although my opponent did have two corpse carts around his infantry and two Terrorgheists...it didn't end well
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Offline sebster

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 02:35:40 AM »
In a competitive setting, building an all-comers list I can't see any practical alternative to a cannon.  It's such a great counter to big monsters and the like, so that suddenly a monster that you've just got no counter to starts to look a lot like free points.  Even if there is no monster it can still give great value plinking chariots or war machines, and even if they aren't in the game then it can still do good service grinding down enemy units, and maybe even snipe a character.

But outside of all-comers lists there's a lot more scope for leaving out cannons.  That's why I quite having a bit of list tailoring, it gives you scope to try out stuff you wouldn't normally do.
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Offline Noght

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 02:56:25 AM »
Quote from: sebster on August 07, 2012, 02:35:40 AM
It's such a great counter to big monsters and the like, so that suddenly a monster that you've just got no counter to starts to look a lot like free points.

This.  +1.  +2.  +3.  They always pay for themselves.  Even if it's shooting other (cheaper) Warmachines thereby preserving your troops.  Doom Diver vs. Knights?  That's the target.

Noght
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Offline GenOmar

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 03:40:59 AM »
all good points thank you, so I'll have to dump a WP or seriously down grade magic items to make room..for one... :eusa_wall:
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Offline Krudenwald

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 04:30:21 AM »
It doesn't sound like a good idea.

Besides, the title alone is scary. "Without a cannon" sounds too similar to "Without a paddle," and we all know how that turns out.
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Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 04:35:20 AM »
Quote from: GenOmar on August 06, 2012, 05:37:29 PM
guys, do we still have a chance without our beloved cannons?

Is that a trick question?  :? Of course we do. I often run without.

Taking cannon is just so engrained in Empire players genes that it is never questioned and would lead to physical reactions if pondered. In reality, cannon are vastly overrated.
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Offline Noght

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 12:10:23 PM »
Quote from: Lord Solar Plexus on August 07, 2012, 04:35:20 AM
In reality, cannon are vastly overrated.

Blasphemer!  :icon_eek:   :-D
(Maybe if you were still guessing ranges...)

Noght
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Offline Vesticus

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 09:41:40 PM »
How about one cannon and one Luminark? I currently run a double cannon, double helblaster, double engineer list but was thinking of swapping one cannon for a Luminark for a bit of variety.

My thinking being that I can still take down monsters etc but have something that can be used in the counter attack along with the DGK's and Knights.
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Offline Drmooreflava

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 09:49:50 PM »
And the flaming attack is great vs regen, just don't expect to fire with it every turn because you might roll low for the winds of magic.
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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 10:05:07 PM »
LSP is not alone-  I can't remember the last time I took a static cannon...   

I like not having a backfield to defend.  I make up for it with a tank, nuke-happy Heavens wizard, Helblasters, or a Lum with its bound spell.

Works just fine.
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Offline Noght

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 11:11:40 PM »
No STank for me, so I roll with a Cannon.

Noght
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Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 06:29:06 AM »
Quote from: Noght on August 07, 2012, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: Lord Solar Plexus on August 07, 2012, 04:35:20 AM
In reality, cannon are vastly overrated.

Blasphemer!  :icon_eek:   :-D
(Maybe if you were still guessing ranges...)

Noght

Hey, I'm just Saying the things other Empire Generals don't like hearing since October 2010.
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Offline Noght

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Re: without a cannon
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2012, 04:02:08 PM »
Quote from: Lord Solar Plexus on August 08, 2012, 06:29:06 AM
Quote from: Noght on August 07, 2012, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: Lord Solar Plexus on August 07, 2012, 04:35:20 AM
In reality, cannon are vastly overrated.

Blasphemer!  :icon_eek:   :-D
(Maybe if you were still guessing ranges...)

Noght

Hey, I'm just Saying the things other Empire Generals don't like hearing since October 2010.

Ha.  Well done!
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