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Author Topic: The 8e Empire Handbook  (Read 83322 times)

Offline Arfa

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2013, 06:07:44 AM »
Another point of note for demigryph champs is the oft forgotten underdog rule, in a tight game the extra couple of vps you can score can help your score, and a demigryph champ is more than capable of taking down a hero level character or even a weaker Lord.

Arfa

Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2013, 06:55:00 AM »
I like this thread so much I stickied it....  :engel:
Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
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Offline DonJulio

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2013, 04:03:04 PM »
nice to have it on sticky!  :happy:

Offline GrafWattenburg

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2013, 08:20:44 PM »
As a new Empire player I found this guide very helpful, so thanks a lot for writing it! :)

It's a shame Free Company and Flagellants aren't very useful right now as they and their fluff was largely the reason for why I started up with the Empire  :icon_rolleyes:

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2013, 10:07:33 PM »
Thanks for the sticky, soth. I really appreciate it. :happy:

@Arfa: Great point about the Underdog Challenge, I'll mention that in the Tactics section.

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2013, 05:22:44 AM »
Quick update note - I added another list to the pile, looking to showcase multiple units of Demigryph Knights and Captains on Pegasi. The Ld is a bit low for my taste (8 pretty much across the board), but that's pretty much the only gripe I have with the list. What say you?

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2013, 01:09:15 PM »
Quote
Battle Prayers

In this section, we will discuss the Battle Prayers available to Warrior Priests and Arch Lectors, and what situations they excel in. A key note to remember here is that Innate Bound Spells won't impose adverse effects upon you if they are cast with irresistible force and won't break your concentration if you fail to cast them, so you shouldn't be afraid to 1-dice or 6-dice them, as the situation warrants.

a bit of a nuance on the bold part: BRB page 37, miscast will prevent further casting by the WP/AL, but no rolling on the miscast table

also I did a bit of work on something similar here:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=37714.0
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
Miscast =/= fail to cast. Failing to cast is rolling an unmodified 1 or a 2.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #83 on: May 25, 2013, 08:28:19 PM »
indeed... I fail at reading correctly... (to many rules past by me at the eurobash again  :closed-eyes:)
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline andremmuller

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2013, 08:26:33 AM »
Thanks for this great resource! Been playing empire since 4th Ed but only just getting back to them in 8th.  :::cheers:::
Count Jasper von Schwartz - Grand Master - Knights of the Two Lions

MickJack

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »
Thanks Rothgar, great work, this is going to be extremely helpful for me.

I just started playing, so I am not into all rules and finesses yet. In your sample army list "Council of Light" I am not sure why you give the AL armor of destiny while he is on a war alter. I thought that the war alter in it self gave a 4+ ward safe, or does that only work when someone is shooting at the alter?

Offline Krokz

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2013, 01:56:08 PM »
MickJack
Chariot, as a mount, never confers its ward save to its rider. They are two different targets (BRB p104).
In the instance of War Altar and Arch Lector this has been clarified by official FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180066a_Empire_v1.2_APRIL13.pdf

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2013, 06:41:35 PM »
As Krokz has noted, the AL sadly doesn't benefit from the 4+ Ward save provided by the War Altar - this only extends to the Chariot itself.

As an unrelated note, I want to say that I am becoming more of a believer in the power of the Lore of Heavens, particularly the beautiful synergy that is Harmonic Convergence with a 1+ armor save. I'm thinking of bumping the Lore's overall score to Blue, and maybe even bumping Harmonic to a Purple, given that interaction (which you can - and should - take advantage of). What say you?

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2013, 06:55:06 PM »
I say yes and donīt forget how much harmonic convergence also can do to your hellblasters (re rolling to hit and to wound 1`s yes please) and cannons if you use the bubble version you could have a devastating shooting phase.

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2013, 08:02:03 PM »
Yep, that's what I'm thinking. It makes for a static list, but a very potent one. I'll be making those edits soon. I've downgraded Death to Green as well, given that I'm not that big a fan of it for Empire and lists I see rarely use it. A strong Lore, but there's just not that much synergy, which is something that Heavens does in spades.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:08:33 PM by rothgar13 »

Offline BBorN

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »
I have to say Roth in looking over the sample lists you have some good things there but for he shooting list I have some major issues:

Firing Squad - 2500 points

Core - 650 points
10 Archers [Wizard Lord goes here]
2 x 15 Crossbowmen, Standard-Bearer [BSB goes in one of these]
- Detachments: 2 x 5 Archers (each)
5 Inner Circle Knights, Musician, Standard-Bearer (Gleaming Pennant)

Special - 860 points
2 x Great Cannon
2 x Mortar
2 x 10 Outriders

Rare - 490 points
2 x Helblaster Volley Gun [One Engineer goes in each]
Steam Tank

Heroes - 225 points
Captain, BSB (Banner of Eternal Flame)
2 x Master Engineer

Lords - 270 points
Battle Wizard Lord, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation [General, Lore of Shadow]

Grand Total: 2500 points

#1 - mortars? really? Throw those down a deep dark hole and add more outriders maybe 10 more or some pistoliers for mobility.

#2 - crossbows -  they really don't add much to the shooting power of the list and the only combat unit you have is 5 IC knights. I would drop the 30 and make them knights so you have something to mop up. Even a gun line needs SOME type of combat unit
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Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2013, 09:42:34 PM »
I actually like Mortars in this list, precisely because my fighting unit is just a handful of Knights. Mortars with The Withering still mostly function as intended, which is by really thinning down infantry blocks. I can see what you're saying with regards to the Crossbowmen, though I'm probably keeping one unit of them around for Regen-stripping purposes.

Offline BBorN

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2013, 09:55:31 PM »
I actually like Mortars in this list, precisely because my fighting unit is just a handful of Knights. Mortars with The Withering still mostly function as intended, which is by really thinning down infantry blocks. I can see what you're saying with regards to the Crossbowmen, though I'm probably keeping one unit of them around for Regen-stripping purposes.

Who are you and what have you done with the Rothgar I know? The withering makes them work? What if you don't roll it? What if it is dispelled? Not much worth their points then
It's not the size of the Herdstone it's how you use it

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2013, 10:21:56 PM »
I was playing devil's advocate. :icon_lol:

If you think a third unit of 10 Outriders will contribute more, I'm willing to listen. I'm have a bit of a hard time figuring out the spacing for all that stuff, though, and might just end up swapping it out for its "weight" in Pistoliers, though.

Offline Scalenex

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2013, 06:17:07 AM »
I'd recommend promoting Net of Amytok a level.  War machines ALWAYS fail Strength tests.  This has saved my butt a few times.

I'm a long time LM player and a newbie Empire player so I don't know what experience has taught you, but Militia seem like a good detachment.  Crappy as a unit outside of Siege Scenarios (where they would be king of the Core), but good in small doses.  If you are only take a five man detachment why not choose 5 men with 10 attacks?
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Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2013, 04:29:51 PM »
Because you could have Steadfast Skirmishers with Bows instead? There are better choices for just about every role you can think of than Free Company, and that's why they get the Red. If they were 5ppm, I might be singing a different tune. But as it stands, that unit is pointless.

Offline psychichobo

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2013, 11:57:30 PM »
Ok, I do apologise if this sounds a bit daft, as I've barely played much with Empire (and use a Lietpold list anyway), but I was just looking at your recommended tactics section for Karl Franz and was wondering - is he really the same tactically as a regular General?
He's got a reasonable save (2+ on Barded horse, 3+ on Monsters, and 4+ mounted, and a 4+ ward), and a very nasty weapon, on top of some decent stats, so there's not a lot of combat characters willing to go near that. And though he's expensive, on horseback he's feasible with a bare-bones level 4 in some average sized games.

Plus, he can bring a Dragon to the table, which is a whole other ballgame in some aspects. Though if you're approaching that from the cost perspective I do see your point in not giving that too much thought...


I'm not saying he's good or bad or anything, but I do think he might provide a few alternative approaches to the Empire.

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2013, 06:57:07 PM »
I think of Franz as a mix between a General and a Grand Master, personally. He costs way too much to be fielded on foot (where Ghal Maraz is likely to be wasted on 1-Wound infantry), so you really only look at him from the perspective of a mounted unit, in which case he's a rich man's General (+1 WS/I/A/Ld, better IP range, a slightly better Runefang if you pay a little extra) or an odd Grand Master (no unit-wide ItP, Hold the Line!, better IP range, and +1 Ld). So he sits on his Griffon or on a Horse and supports the unit he's in - what added dimension is he really bringing? And that's without bringing his cost-efficiency into the equation.

Offline psychichobo

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2013, 07:58:50 PM »
True - I suppose I'm looking at him more as a character killer and not paying enough attention to the costs. Still, would be nice to see him smack up a Daemon Prince or Blenderlord if he's mounted on a horse...

Offline rothgar13

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Re: The 8e Empire Handbook
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2013, 08:41:46 PM »
I fear he might not have the combat chops to do it. You only hit the Daemon Prince on a 5+, and he has a 5+ Ward to fend off the occasional blow (plus your saves won't protect you much against him, especially if they go with The Other Trickster's Shard over the Sword of Striking, as some players have increasingly done). A Blenderlord with the canonical Ogre Blade (or the less conventional Sword of Anti-Heroes + OTS) will likely rip right through him before he gets to swing. I fear that the characters Karl Franz can feasibly kill are ones you shouldn't be losing sleep over to begin with.