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Author Topic: AoS: Unit Points?  (Read 779 times)

Offline arselus

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AoS: Unit Points?
« on: October 03, 2016, 04:36:43 AM »
I'm just getting familiarized with AoS and have read through the rules PDF and war scrolls, which are still available for free on the GW site, but I see no mention of point values for units.

The only place I've seen point values is in the back of the Generals Handbook, but this looks like a partial appendix, similar to what the old (WHFB 6th edition) BRB had in the back.

What is the definitive place to get the point values for units in AoS?

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 06:08:02 AM »
The point values are in the GHB which can also be downloaded at a cheaper price in the free AoS app.

Of course the easiest(and free) route is to ask someone who owns the book for point values, I'll happily post on Dakka for an answer if I don't have the information on hand. (Life problems have made my hobby activities, like getting the book, difficult to say the least...)

Now the thing about AoS points is that they're not like the old point system where one halberdier is 5 points. The new system is that the unit is in a set number so 5 Liberators are costed at 100 points whether or not you have 5 Liberators. So 1-5 Liberators= 100 points, 6-10= 200 points, 11-15= 300 points and so on.

This early leak (and probably anyone on Dakka) explains it better than me:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2016/06/age-of-sigmar-point-leaks.html?m=1

Hope that helps a bit and am very willing to help you with any questions. :smile2:
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Offline arselus

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 12:48:17 AM »
Thanks, that's really helpful!

Does the generals handbook include points for battalions?

(I'm still not fully sure how battalions work, but I've found some warscrolls for those too, for example: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-battalion-hostazyric-en.pdf )

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 11:39:35 AM »
Indeed it does. :-)
The only battalions missing are from the Realmgate war books but those are for narratives rather than matched play.

Pretty muched summed up here on the grand alliance forum:
http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/2066-battalions-that-arent-in-generals-handbook/

Also, though with some of their classic "honesty" and bumbling, the fellows at 1d4chan put together a tactica that could prove helpful to you. :smile2:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Category:Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics
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Offline Duinila

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 12:38:16 AM »
The battalions from the start collecting boxes are missing too as far as I know

Offline arselus

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 05:16:33 AM »
I found this resource: http://www.scrollbuilder.com/

Has anyone used it? Is it accurate?

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 07:13:52 AM »
Haha, I forgot all about that. I like figuring things out on paper and don't use scrollbuilders so it completely slipped my mind. :-P

It is accurate, the points match up with the ghb as far as I can see and it even takes in account of the new relics as well as the cost of the dwarf miners whose points were accidentally left out of the English handbooks. :-)

@Duinila,  that's correct. They mention it in the tga link I posted.  :smile2:
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Offline Duinila

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2016, 09:20:23 AM »
Could you point out where? Didn't see it tbh

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2016, 04:44:21 PM »
The third post by RuneBrush mentioned not seeing points for them either. Other topics I looked up on tga said the same thing as well, the Start collecting battalions are for open play rather than matched play.

Also talked about here.
https://m.reddit.com/r/ageofsigmar/comments/4ylpys/warscroll_battalions/
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:17:56 PM by Baron von Klatz »
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Offline gladius

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 09:10:56 PM »
Is it me or are the empire militia missing from the GHB? They don't seem to be on scrollbuilder.com either!
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Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 11:00:19 PM »
That's due to them being apart of the Freeguild Guard which can be armed with militia weapons. You can still get their own rules from the Empire legacy compendium, though:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-the-empire-en.pdf

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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2016, 10:46:25 AM »
As of the Grand Alliance: Order book, the weapon options for the militia have been added to the Freeguild Guard warscroll, so they would now count as Freeguild Guard, and whatever points they are

Offline gladius

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2016, 04:39:46 AM »
Thanks, I had totally missed this!
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2016, 06:07:35 AM »
Points are overrated. Just use open play.
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 10:59:26 AM »
I would say matched play is overrated rather than points per se.   

Points can still be a relatively decent way of getting starting forces done.   It's better than trying to balance on wounds or attacks that was being used before points.

But I kind of feel the friendly chilled out storytelling game of AoS has been hijacked by the tournament folk who want to add restriction after restriction, and take all the joy, crazy, terrifying, interesting stuff out of it, and turn it into something much more boring.

It's already happened in my area, from conversations about the Realmgate wars and the factions, it's now all bout points efficiency, you only ever see the same 6 battleplans used, no time of war, anything the General's Handbook introduced some good stuff but a lot of bad

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 10:20:48 PM »
I would say matched play is overrated rather than points per se.   

Points can still be a relatively decent way of getting starting forces done.   It's better than trying to balance on wounds or attacks that was being used before points.

But I kind of feel the friendly chilled out storytelling game of AoS has been hijacked by the tournament folk who want to add restriction after restriction, and take all the joy, crazy, terrifying, interesting stuff out of it, and turn it into something much more boring.

It's already happened in my area, from conversations about the Realmgate wars and the factions, it's now all bout points efficiency, you only ever see the same 6 battleplans used, no time of war, anything the General's Handbook introduced some good stuff but a lot of bad
I'm just starting to get into AoS and i joined the facebook group for my area and immediately found this type of min/max play as I was told most people use rounds, no base stacking, no second turn, etc.... I was like, "but I have squares" and the response was "oh....I guess that's ok".
I did hear I could use squares at the GW store though maybe that's a slightly different crowd.
I min/maxed in 40k. So that style of play is kinda played out for me. ....and 40k had much more interesting min/maxing.
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2016, 10:54:06 PM »
ugh no second round? That thing makes the whole game more tactical in that you have to take into account both... So sad to hear that..

and yes squars are ok, you need to be able to play the game even with your WHFB models!
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2016, 11:02:41 PM »
40k has got out of hand with min/max gameplay, you have to go for all the best options in your army and allies to even have anything like a fair game, and some of the players and lists are just not worth even trying against.

Officially in the rules, you measure from models.  A lot of places just can't get there head out of bases, and insist on measuring to bases.   I'd change the rule to say the base is part of the model.  Stuff that massively overhangs the base makes sense it can reach further than it's base, but you also don't want a giant base for a tiny model.   I get that stacking is frowned upon, I wouldn't want someone to put their models on top of mine, it risks chipping and scratching, or rubbing off flock. 

I have put all my Stormcast on 40mm squares, partly because I thought someone might come up with rules for 8th/9th, but also just to troll people who care too much about what base shape and size should be used.  As it makes so little difference.  I think if you care that much, all that really means is you're trying to either get or deny an extra attack or two for that microscopic advantage, and that feels to me a bit unsporting

As for second turn, I assume that means they have no roll-off for turn order each round, and it's always player1-player2.   It's a real headache to get used to but it's very much a signature characteristic of the game to take into account that your opponent or yourself might get a double-turn.    In some games it can kill off a game, in others it means a complete swing around.   It's one of those vagaries that makes a game different, and unpredictable.  The last thing I want to see is the same game with the same result every time.

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2016, 04:28:43 AM »
I can already tell that in lists that have heavy shooting, the 2nd tun thing is a game breaker. For close combat its not as big a deal because you do get to strike back.
I thought of the idea of doing alternate shooting units like the game does in the combat phase. Which sounds pretty awesome because you don't just stand there and lose models. But then what it leads to is 100% shooting lists because you basically get a second shooting round.

I'm starting to think that lists need to be capped at how many shooting units are included in the list.
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2016, 07:45:30 AM »
That might be a thing indeed, as a savage orruk list now with loads of archers at the moment can deal a horrenous amount of damage together with it's hero abilities.

Though in multiplayer as it is now shooting in general is massively underpowered
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 01:11:52 PM »
That might be a thing indeed, as a savage orruk list now with loads of archers at the moment can deal a horrenous amount of damage together with it's hero abilities.

Though in multiplayer as it is now shooting in general is massively underpowered

How is it underpowered in MP?

Also....I had a cool image of an orc saying "arr arra's will blot out da sun!", and then a stormcast eternal saying "Then we will fight in the shade".
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Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2016, 01:17:03 PM »


Also....I had a cool image of an orc saying "arr arra's will blot out da sun!", and then a stormcast eternal saying "Then we will fight in the shade".

I don't know why but I love this type of problem solving. So practical and pragmatic 😺
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: AoS: Unit Points?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2016, 04:14:59 PM »
That might be a thing indeed, as a savage orruk list now with loads of archers at the moment can deal a horrenous amount of damage together with it's hero abilities.

Though in multiplayer as it is now shooting in general is massively underpowered

How is it underpowered in MP?

Also....I had a cool image of an orc saying "arr arra's will blot out da sun!", and then a stormcast eternal saying "Then we will fight in the shade".

Currently Multiplayer (say with 4 players) works like this
after setup then it's decide with dice roll who goes first, second, third and fourth
so player 1 does his things up into combat in which you then go clockwise around the table with player 1 first picking a unit.
so every player does his sequences
then roll again for initiative.. if you are player 1 and you roll lowest now it might be that you have had 1 round shooting and 7 rounds of combat.. your shooty unit will probably already be obliterated.
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