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Author Topic: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?  (Read 1151 times)

Offline Cèsar de Quart

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Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« on: September 27, 2019, 11:39:58 AM »
Hi there, today I bring you a question.

For a short story I'm writing, I'd like to discuss who are supposed to be the most powerful sorcerers, wizards and magic users in the world. Human (or near human), not undead, not chaotic. People who could participate in a sort of United Nations debate to save the world through astral projection.

My list, so far, goes like this:

- Balthasar Gelt
- The Monkey King of Cathay (or maybe the Dragon Emperor? But the Monkey King feels like a more supernatural entity)
- The Fey Enchantress
- The Wizard Caliph

Maybe also:
- The Golden Magus (in a novel he was revealed to be a worshipper of Tzeentch, so... there goes the Golden Magus, I'm afraid)
- Coult Noctilus or Luthor Harkon (do they have any reason to be aligned with Nagash?)
- The Tzarina (she is the leader of the Ice Witches after all)

Along with them, of course, would be Alarielle, Morathi, Teclis and Malekith, but I'm looking for a consensus of "the human casters". I may make up some Indish and Cathayan people (a proxy Dalai Lama, a Buddha-like man, a Kali priest master or a super shinto samurai leader), but I'm sure I'm forgetting some Old World powerful people.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 01:59:07 PM by Cèsar de Quart »

Offline Warlord

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Re: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 03:11:37 PM »
Thyrus Gorman?
Other heads of each colour college? They might be named in the 6th ed armybook story where balthasar defeats Thyrus in the duel.

Also, any Albion Druids or Truthsayers?

When you say not undead - not a necromancer? Not that I can think of any, but just curious...

Generally light magic is used for the type of spell you are desribing.... are you considering all winds of magic then?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 03:15:35 PM by Warlord »
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Offline Cèsar de Quart

  • Posts: 81
Re: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 04:20:45 PM »
I hadn't considered the Truthsayers of Albion, although I'll have to make some up in that case.

I'm using Gelt as a representative of all the wizards of the Empire, but yes, Light and Heavens are the most associated with astral projections.

Thanks!

Offline FVC

  • Posts: 1037
Re: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 04:26:42 AM »
Thyrus Gorman?
Other heads of each colour college? They might be named in the 6th ed armybook story where balthasar defeats Thyrus in the duel.

They're not named there, but they are in WFRP2e's Realms of Sorcery. That source gives:

- Vespasian Kant (Light)
- Balthasar Gelt (Metal)
- Tochter Grunfeld (Life)
- Reiner Starke (Shadow)
- Raphael Julevno (Heavens)
- Viggo Hexensohn (Death)
- Thyrus Gormann (Fire)
- Setanta Lobas (Beasts)

I don't think Lobas is ever mentioned in End Times, so if you wanted you might replace him with Gregor Martak, or suggest that Lobas died early on and was replaced. I can't be bothered to search through those books right now to check the exact details of how Martak was introduced, but as he eventually become Supreme Patriarch, I assume he must have been Magister Patriarch of the Amber Order at some point. On the other hand, the Amber Order isn't terribly well-organised and don't seem that keen on ranks, so you never know.

Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos describes Elspeth von Draken as 'Magisterix of the Amethyst College', but as far as I can tell that's different to Magister Patriarch/Matriarch, and she is not head of college. That said I would not personally be surprised if she's a more powerful wizard that Hexensohn: he seems very capable, but then, von Draken is extremely scary in her own right.

Realms of Sorcery has a few paragraphs on biography of all of those, but I think Gelt, Gormann, and Kant are the only ones who've been mentioned much? Vespasian Kant appeared in Liber Chaotica as someone who helped teach Richter Kless about magic, and I think maybe Lobas did as well, on the subject of beastmen?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 04:28:54 AM by FVC »

Offline Cèsar de Quart

  • Posts: 81
Re: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 07:39:47 AM »
Thyrus Gorman?
Other heads of each colour college? They might be named in the 6th ed armybook story where balthasar defeats Thyrus in the duel.

They're not named there, but they are in WFRP2e's Realms of Sorcery. That source gives:

- Vespasian Kant (Light)
- Balthasar Gelt (Metal)
- Tochter Grunfeld (Life)
- Reiner Starke (Shadow)
- Raphael Julevno (Heavens)
- Viggo Hexensohn (Death)
- Thyrus Gormann (Fire)
- Setanta Lobas (Beasts)

I remember Elspeth von Draken being featured more prominently of late. With Tamurkhan and all, I'm guessing she's got something of an accepted canon status as a high ranking member of the Amethyst College. It's easy to think that she leads the Nuln lodge of death wizards, and Hexensohn (great name) is the Master of the College at its Altdorf seat.

Vespasian Kant... such a great name. It's a pity WH never really developed these guys, except for Gelt. I'll check out the book you mention, thanks!

Offline FVC

  • Posts: 1037
Re: Who are the most powerful human sorcerers in the world?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 10:30:25 AM »
Okay, checking now...

Vespasian Kant is mentioned in Liber Tzeentch. He's apparently a friend of Richter Kless and taught him a fair bit of magical theory: enough for Kless to write the sections of the book about the winds of magic. There's also a treatise written by Kant himself, 'Arcane and Divine Magic', in which he argues that the spells of wizards and the prayers or miracles of priests are manifestations of the same power. However, a wizard accomplishes this by directly manipulating the winds, with the aid of long training and will, while a priest does this instinctively, their faith creating an emotional resonance with a deity who then supplies them with power. Kant supports the theory that the gods are themselves Aethyric constructs born of mortal emotion, and suggests that this might account for their relative responsiveness to priests. He suggests that sorcerers of Tzeentch are such powerful wizards because, while they are skilled wizards in the traditional sense, they couple this with abiding faith in a deity who is all too happy to provide them with power. Nonetheless Kant recommends against faith as a path to power for College wizards, and notes that he himself does "not wish to trust the benevolence of a deity whose need for my faith and dedication might far outweight my own need for his or her aid".

Setanta Lobas appears in Liber Nurgle, in a section on beastmen. Lobas doesn't seem very friendly and doesn't like talking, so instead he wrote a report on beastmen and gave it to Kless directly. Despite being an Amber wizard, Lobas seems to be very knowledgeable and scholarly, and his report is quite detailed (twelve pages long, plus three whole-page annotated sketches), so don't believe anyone who tells you that wizards of the Lore of Beasts aren't literate. Lobas knows a lot about beastmen from personal observation: apparently one of his customs is to take the form of a raven and spy on threats to the Empire, so he has a good knowledge of beastman society, rituals practices, and so on. He's pretty knowledgeable about Chaos and the winds too, so it's a good thing he's on the side of order. Still, for all this knowledge, the practical conclusion Lobas draws is that the only solution to beastman presence is to wipe them out: they cannot be negotiated with or redirected.