Topic: 40K

[McKnight]

Thats good then!

I dont know much about the chaos guys, but TS and their Ap3 is nice


Note on Blood angels: The codex is out on the interwebs. PM me.

[Aldaris]

Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.

[Fandir Nightshade]

So 40k is still the more balanced system?

[McKnight]

Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.

Hehe yea and their job is to die. Guess they will hope that they wont suceed in close combat
But i was thinking about getting them jump packs but i see your point:P. Lemartes seems very expensive (chaplains in general)
Im having a hard time fitting stuff into a list, they are very expensive.
And all those elite choices! yummy! But its hard to choose a normal HQ which isnt a special character.

[Aldaris]

I was thinking about Astorath the Grim, 2 Librarian Furiosos and 2 units of mounted-up Death Company as the armies hammers. The problem I have with Astorath is choosing an appropriate bodyguard for him that won't b wiped out by a single round of rapid-fire and that still packs a punch. And it needs to be jump-pack troops. I guess normal Assault Marines would work... 10 or so. With Astorath leading the army they have a 50% chance of having Red Thirst and therefore furious charge. They can pull off a "Descent of Angels" attack when some of the enemy firepower is already destroyed or engaged.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well, t12, I believe 40K suddenly turned Rock-paper-sissor again... 

I mean, they just had to create a insane assault army that basically win or loose by turn two. Not my idea of fun but I am sure many competitive gamers will be jubilant.
How the heck do my Boyz counter such an army! 

Best make sure my son NEVER gets to read the Blood Angel codex. Sure as hell ain´t gonna by it myself. Not a chance... Thing is he was into the Blood Angels old list before he got the Lysander mini and turned towards the Imperial fists.

Okay, I guess I better get myself a shitload of what... Boomwagons... and pray their first volley lands on target cause there sure won´t be a second volley. Oh, that an some Meganobz with claws. And lots of Gretchin fodder to tie them down for a round so I an blast a bit more and hopefully gun the red smurfs down before they reach my line.

[Aldaris]

Orcs should have plenty of ways to deal with BA. Orcs are pretty much one of the strongest 'dexes in 40k right now.
In case it has escaped you: You are playing an "insane assault army" as well...
 

[McKnight]

Yes stop that nonsense Mathi. Orks can outnumber them 3:1 and have the same number of attacks

[McKnight]

Nice stuff Aldaris but you lack objective takers 

[Aldaris]

I said those units would form the hammer of the army. That should be (very roughly) about 1350 or so. Still would leave me plenty of room for more standards.

[McKnight]

Oh you play 2k? ... Meh
Its hard to make a 1.5k

Heres my try:

HQ:  Librarian with jump pack, psychic powers not decided (joins one assault squad)

Elite:
Chaplain, nilla, joins death Comp

Librarian furioso with drop pod / maybe this should go since it has to enter play in turn one.

Troops:
9 Death company
- 1 powerfist
- 3 powerweapons.
In rhino with extra armour

10 assault marines
- powerfist
- 2 meltas

10 assault marines
- powerfist
-1 melta

Fast:

Dakka baal
-heavy bolters

Dakka baal
- heavy bolters

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template. I have also expirienced how my proud slugga boyz with a nob first almost broke a unit of Space marines and then got slaughtered in the coming rounds when Lysander muscled in.
In the end, he passed his saves much more easily than I passed mine on +6. 

Orkz are brutal in the assault... against Guards, eldars and such. Against Marines I feel they mostly just end up pounding metal screaming guttural curses while the Marines calmy reload their bolters.

I realize that if they take down one unit of boyz, they will not be able to overrun into the next and I will  be able to make a counter-assault. Still, the only thing I trust in making any dent into a Marine squad is a powerclaw, and the only unit able to trott many of them are the nobz. And sorry, I sort of like to take a balanced force, and I love the shoota boyz.

My elites, my nobz that is, might stand a chance in a scrap. The rest will have to cling on for grim Green and pray my son flukes his saving throws.
Now, I am planning to add a large unit of burna boyz to my army. At present I got 5 of them. But the problem is that since he Marine boyz got better initiative, there will not be many Burna boyz left to use the burnaz upon them.

Hence, I guess I better load up on Rokkit launchaz... Anything that helps me kill those brutes before they reach my innocent ladz is a good thing.

And then we have my Imperial guardsmen that are slowly growing. I guess I will have to take back my desicion of droping the Missile launchers in favour of Heavy bolters and such. Seems the wise thing to do is get a battery or two of them, and not to forget them plasma guns on each squad.
Oh, and I really need to get Stormtrooper. One squad was planned since it would fit my theme, but if I will have to face them Bloodies in the future I will need something like 2 squads maked out on Marine killing shootaz.

This is the problem when you make one force simply too good at shooting or too good at CC. It turns the game into Rock-Paper-Sissor and settles it on turn two depending on if I can kill enough of the oncoming tide of destruction. When something gets so good that you simply cannot risk any CC whatsoever, things turn ugly.
So max out on plasma guns, Imperial fellows, and maybe keep some meltas. The Blood Angels are coming and they will slaughter anything in their path.

So what if they are few. If they don´t die and my ladz does, they will soon be in majority on the table. Hence, don´t try any heroics against Blood Angels. Load up on stuff that pierces AS3 and AS2 and shot them to smithereens... Don´t give them a chance of getting at you or the game is lost. Sure, it won´t be so fun for the Blood Angel player, but it´s him or me.

[McKnight]

Dude what are you talking about?

Your boyz' nobz can also have power claws and the marines are bound to fail their saves with that mass of attack.
Also use kill kanonz, they are awesome.

Also the blood angels arent crazy overpowered like you are screaming about. Its only the Death company that is a monster in CC, but they have rage, so if you shoot their rhino (av11!!) you can lure them practically anywhere.
The rest of the army is almost just a spacemarine army, with assault squads. They only have 1 attack in their profile, so 3 attacks when assaulting. Not nearly enough to eradicate lots of orcs.
Sure they have awesome dreads, but if they get immobilised they can just stand there and look stupid.

[Aldaris]

Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template.

Then you should seriously work on your spacing. It should never, ever be possible for your opponent to get so many under one template. Not even after a deepstrike - use your shooting phase to run and disperse a bit.
The only situation I can think of that would result in boyz being this packed at all is if you assaulted a vehicle, after which you're not allowed to consolidate. This you need to take into account - if there's a high propability you'll be plastered with templates in your opponents turn, don't give him fat, juicy targets.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well, I think there was not 20 orkz, maybe 15 or so. I was mobbing up on my sons IG HQ. He held somehow, he turned his demolisher cannon my way. I asked if he really wanted to do it since he would risk scattering into his own men. One reason for me getting up close and personal was too grab him by the belt and avoid his blasting.
He fired anyway and landed perfectly. 

Alright, I play orkz the orky way. My ladz don´t give a crap about formation and stuff. They wanna shoot some dakka and crump stuff, that´s it! 

Hmm... I think my tankbustaz may come in handy...

[McKnight]

You cant shoot into close combat?


Your best bet would be a walker army.

[Nicholas Bies]

guys I need help. I want to do a 40k army but can't decide what.

Armies I'm interested in:

Tau - simply because they are apparently really hard to play with
Orks - models are awesome and speedfreaks "Helz Orksus" really really appeals to me
Space Wolves - drop pod assault army
Imperial Fists - Lysander and I like the Yellow/black scheme
I have some nids' but I'm in the process of selling them I also have a few tau figs

I don't want to derail this thread from it's current direction but I would appreciate some help and advice on 40k as I have no idea at all about the game (not having played since 3rd ed).

[McKnight]

Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi


Anyways. Tau has cool army and are best when mechanised so they can deploy rapidly and avoid CC with their fire warriors.

Right now we see a tendency of mechanised lists in 40k because transports have become very cheap, so an army without transports is going to be driven around.

If you want to try a difficult army, then try Grey knights. They are really difficult but not totally chanceless.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Orkz, cause they rocks! No, not because they are powerful and competitive and such gibberish Mcknight and them weakhearted folks talk about but because they rocks!

You get mean, then you go green! 

As for walkers, I don´t own a single ork walker, Mcknight. They don´t really fit my theme. I have vehicles and battlewagons and lots and lots of boyz. That is my theme.
I guess I could put buzzsaws on my Deffkoptaz though...

Alright, alright. I know them new Kanz are really a good bargain moneywise, and yes they are cool. But I have plans for two battlewagons, beyond the one my Nobz rides in, and then I am making a battery of Kannonz, cause it feels so awesome to field proper artillery for once in 40K.
And I try to put as much of the 1/35 scale models to use as possible. Including anti-tank guns etc...

I guess I could get me a Deff Dread though, and field it in a 2500 point army so I can get my Big mek in aswell. But it will not fit into my 2000 point force at the moment.
I could drop a Battlewagon but only two battlewagons in total is not proper and unorky... Especially for a band of orkz who specializes in Forvart Rekun! 

[Shadowlord]

This for Mathi and his rabid ranting...



You walk around with just boyz without transports, you are bound to loose against guards.

[Shadowlord]

Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi

Say what? 

[McKnight]

They have more attacks, counter assault and mark of wulfen for starters.
Can get reroll to hit and wound with their lightning claw armed terminators with a priest etc

[Mathi Alfblut]

Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?

[McKnight]

AWell you could start to drive more than 6" then he only hits on 6s...

[Aldaris]

But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?

How will he do that, unless you already did move, thus making you rather hard to hit? And he'd be doing you a favor actually. CCing a transport full of assault troops gets you exactly one result: being assaulted by them next turn.