I only said colossus. Which I probably spelled incorrectly, but I meant 1. I do have a Medusa as well, but that seems less useful.
I read "2 arty" and saw "Collossus". I figured they were both Collossus since the other wasn't defined. My b.
A gunline is incredibly boring to play as and against. It is boring in fantasy, and it is boring in 40k. If you don't outshoot the enemy you lose. Great fun for everyone!
I agree - that's why I don't play it. But that doesn't change effectiveness.
I would expect a foot guard army to be ripped limb from limb by any number of dark eldar or tyranid armies. I know this from experience. Any army which can cross the table rapidly, with competent close combat troops will kill a guard foot army. It just needs to make hand to hand combat.
That's what the twenty vanilla guard are there for. 2" apart, make a line in front of the enemy. Can't charge through it, and no consolidations into fresh troops afterward. Kill off the twenty Guard, and lololol while you triple tap them in their faces. I'd make a guess that such a scenario cost them ten times more points than your 100 points of expendable Guard that was cut down. As I've said before, if you know what you're doing, multiple close combat assaults in 5th edition are more your failure than your enemy's skill. It's WAY too easy to keep them from killing off your troops in HTH through multiple combats.
I would also question if you have enough terrain on the table. If you have very little, then a gunline guard list will be incredibly successful.
I got into the hobby with Necromunda. When it comes to terrain, I hardly think there's enough. But it goes both ways; with little terrain, there's little to hide behind, but that means the IG will lack the cover. With too much, they get cover saves, but so do the IG. Difference is, IG benefits more from more terrain than less.
Correct. Foot guard certainly isn't bad, but it is vulnerable to a number of things - and it sucks at taking objectives, which doesn't make it very good at actually winning (as opposed to just shooting things up).
Besides, just to answer one of your examples - 2 squads of Guard "evaporating" a squad of assault termies with FRFSRF is highly unlikely. All those shots will on average drop one or two.
7"-12" in a turn (with Move, Move, Move, even more likely to roll higher)? I don't see how grabbing objectives is difficult. That and you have a platoon that can scout, so depending on the game, you can have a plan to sweep in and take 'em. Can you fly from one corner of the table to the other in one turn to secure an objective? No, but you can't do that with a Valkyrie either (24"). Gotta' have a plan. It all comes down to planning.
Also, as for the termies, I've seen it enough not to underestimate IG (that's 22 lasguns per squad plus heavy weapon times two). Maybe I played more games with Guard (either as or against) or something (I highly doubt that since I don't play that much), and yet I've seen it happen a handful of times since the Codex came out. Call it PTSD or whatever, but I'm not stupid enough to get in 12" range with Guard unless I'm somehow hitting them all at once. I don't care if they have 2+s and Feel No Pain and the Hand of the Emperor Himself going "FORCE FIELD FORCE FIELD FORCE FIELD" in front of it, 12" with Guard means I'm removing squads from the table.
I 100% agree with Aldaris. Worst special Character in any 5th ed codex I have read.
Mathi, I dont beleive guard can change their army build with special characters? They can get outflanking, unlimited conscripts etc, but nothing that changes the composition. Nor do the nids for that matter.
Rough Riders are crap anyway. Only fitting their character would be too. And like Crim said, we lost our doctrines. So even though my BT and Codex Marines don't use specials (I hate 'em), I'm completely forced to roll special characters with my IG to have SOME semblance of a reconnaissance unit. I don't see why 40K doesn't do what Apocalypse did with data sheets: have these guys, pay these extra points, get these special rules. Simple and to the point, and it's been proven to WORK!
Regarding the Bell list, it's nice, but as others have said it's illegal now. I had to tell my friend last night that his inquisitorial retinue is no more for his IG due to the Sisters Codex; he was sad. Allies are gone from Warhammer, it seems, at least as single lists go, which sucks (no more Kroot, no more Inquisition, no more Ogres...). I will say that the list could be done a little better. The inquisitor should have had multi-melta servitors and Sanctuary. Let the Guard do their thing; take out the deepstrikers himself. The auto-shot from Mystics was like, what, 4D6"? Average of 14"? And that's assuming the enemy's that far out; if they're closer, I wouldn't be shooting arty that danger-close. BS4 Multi-meltas would be nasty, and 2D6 armor penetration at roughly the average radius of the mystics' ability.
Plus, if you were playing daemons, so much as touching a Sanctuary field (which effectively remained in the game until the inquisitor moved) with deepstriking meant the unit's destroyed instantly, as per the RAW of Codex: Daemonhunters. No mishap table, straight up gone.
We only got better priests and they brough along a unit that is only for close quarters, so no ability at all to include Guardsmen in any capacity. Heck, not even Adeptus Arbites!
But regardless of the junklist we got served via WD I firmly believe my Sisters would eait Blauer Nebel IG for breakfast. Because they are obviously heretics and because the Emperor so wishes!
SoB will still get schooled. Points increase means less sisters, and they shine at the 12" mark (IG do, too, but they can dish out the damage the whole way). Sister tanks are thin and lack the punch for dishing out significant ranged anti-infantry damage (I'm assuming the Exorcist is still using its original Codex weapon?). Hell, even the Immolators can't drive 12" and fire anymore. Dominions got nerfed bad, and while the walkers and Repentia are better, considering what they were, that ain't sayin' a whole lot! Sisters are for the masochistic: solid metal models that are costly and nearly impossible to do any sort of conversions with, plus one crappy army Codex after another. Clearly, the Emperor hates chicks.
But as I'm sure some of you have seen the "slipped" papers from the upcoming "true SoB Codex", there will be Arbites there again with Repressor variant Rhinos. Get to finally use all these Enforcers for something!