Topic: Unit Level Performance Stats : meta report

[Clymer]

This is sort of my point. Cannons have a 35% winrate (reflective of the army as a whole) but the next highest used model is the captain (most likely as a BSB) which has a much higher win rate. If there is a cannon in every army and a captain in most armies is the problem that people aren't taking BSBs

Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

I mean, there's two possibilities:

1) People are substituting cannons when they drop a BSB, or
2) There is something about the units that compliment the BSB and cannon that accounts for the performance. For example, if you take a BSB, does that mean you are more likely to take demigryphs and State Troops? Probably. If you take cannons, does that mean you are less likely to take higher performing units? They did get more expensive and if you add the engineer, they are definitely cutting into your demigryph and wizard budget.

[commandant]

I know but if you are taking state troops (which also have a far higher win rate than cannons) surely you are also taking cannons for the monsters etc.

Cannons did get more expensive but in 2000 point army the extra 25 points isn't massive.

[Clymer]

I don't know... I have been taking fewer cannons overall, and haven't been taking any at 1500 points and lower. It's not just the cost of the cannons... the veteran state troops I take cost way more now too. Detachments work differently, and so does charging skirmishers, so overall my line units cost more and are less effective without adding character support. In 7th and 8th edition, I rarely used my full character allotment, now I struggle to make the characters I want fit. That impacts whether or not I can buy cannons too.

I don't know how many of these games are 1500 points versus 2000 points either. Maybe at 1500 points where Empire performs better, you definitely take a BSB, but maybe not a cannon, and that's what helps account for the win rate differential? 2 cannons plus an engineer is 300 points. That's hefty, and if I'm going for a cannon strategy I want some redundancy. It doesn't fit in 1500 points. So maybe we're seeing an artifact of point size?

[Footpatrol2]

Pegasus captain w/ full plate shield and lance is 87 points from memory. That's our cheapest fast chaff unit. Maybe that?

It's a very good buy for the points.

[Clymer]

Pegasus captain w/ full plate shield and lance is 87 points from memory. That's our cheapest fast chaff unit. Maybe that?

It's a very good buy for the points.

That's a good point. I saw "captain" and I was just assuming BSB. But you're right, that captain could be on a pegasus, or a griffon, and does not have to be a BSB. Maybe all the peg captains account for the difference?

[commandant]

I also assumed a lot of those captains were BSBs. It'd be interesting to find out how many.

Are lists with peggy captains not taking cannons?  It's more that I'm interested in what lists have captains but not cannons.

[Skyros]

I was referring to the Bretonnian Men-at-arms. They are coming in at 51% which is the same (roughly) as the Bretonnian army. But there is nothing below them to balance out the things that are coming in at higher percentages so why is the Bretonnian win rate so low?

There are a couple possibilities. One is that armies that do not contain the men at arms and bowmen (such as the arcane journal lists) are coming in at a lower win rating. The other is that units that don't show up enough to make the 'cutoff' for unit stats, still have an impact and drag down the win rating of the armies that have them instead of other units. A third is that the time frames for the analysis are slightly different and sample sizes are still small.

[Skyros]

I also assumed a lot of those captains were BSBs. It'd be interesting to find out how many.

Are lists with peggy captains not taking cannons?  It's more that I'm interested in what lists have captains but not cannons.

Generally when I see an 'all mounted' empire list, they have captains but not cannons.

[Clymer]

I also assumed a lot of those captains were BSBs. It'd be interesting to find out how many.

Are lists with peggy captains not taking cannons?  It's more that I'm interested in what lists have captains but not cannons.

Generally when I see an 'all mounted' empire list, they have captains but not cannons.

Yeah, I agree. My cav list(s) don't have cannons. I just don't think I can protect them in the rear when the rest of the army goes running off.