Topic: Site Reorganisation Discussion

[Midaski]

Edit: I've split this from one of the "Thought" threads.

We had a discussion last year about how we reacted to AoS and possibly re-organised the site.

A separate section was set up for AoS, rather hastily in my opinion in the end to try and stop the arguing, and there has been the occasional mention by staff since about reviewing the whole site.

I personally think there are things we can do to make the site better, improve the organisation, and see if we can recapture the traffic and atmosphere we had.

Open to comments, but be constructive - no long rants about GW or AoS.

What could be organised better?

What Board options would you like to see?

What are we covering badly, and what is being done well or ok?

If you have suggestions for Boards > Child Boards then name and show them in the breakdown you would like to see.
I made some suggestions further down - suggest other alternatives if you want.

[Finlay]

While there probably ARE certain things you can do to maximise traffic, I think there are also certain external factors influencing this.

[StealthKnightSteg]

We had a discussion last year about how we reacted to AoS and possibly re-organised the site.

A separate section was set up for AoS, rather hastily in my opinion in the end to try and stop the arguing, and there has been the occasional mention by staff since about reviewing the whole site.

I personally think there are things we can do to make the site better, improve the organisation, and see if we can recapture the traffic we had.

Open to comments.
I could even take this off to a separate thread if you feel it's worth exploring?

Stop reading my mind damnit!
 

[StealthKnightSteg]

While there probably ARE certain things you can do to maximise traffic, I think there are also certain external factors influencing this.

Yes! Most definitely.. still not knowing where Free people are going to is a main factor.

[Finlay]

and a total change of system turning off many vets, and a shift in the model style to a more OTT bombastic style (which had been happening for years, this is just the culmination).

I do wonder if the FB presence of AoS discussion is because it's attracting more younger people.

[StealthKnightSteg]

and a total change of system turning off many vets, and a shift in the model style to a more OTT bombastic style (which had been happening for years, this is just the culmination).

I do wonder if the FB presence of AoS discussion is because it's attracting more younger people.

Well FB is a very easy accessible thing for younger people to find information quick and knowing people in general, once they found a suitable point to find information / ask questions they don't move as much anymore to other locations

[Midaski]

I don't want a debate about GW and AoS

I want a discussion about whether reorganising the site would make things better?

[StealthKnightSteg]

I don't want a debate about GW and AoS

I want a discussion about whether reorganising the site would make things better?

Like I said stop reading my mind...

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51385.0.html

[Finlay]

and my opinion on that is the reorganisation won't have that much of an effect, due to outside factors, as discussed above.

If it's easy to do then there's no real reason not to try, but I think the end result, if you add more sub-fora to the AoS section, would simply be a lot more barely active sections, rather than one quas-active one in AoS. in the same way we don't need a painting, army list, tactic, battle report sub division of 40k.

the KoW section on lustria online has 9 total topics.


Having said that i cant remember the last time I posted in the EF.
May as well try, even if i'm pessimistic about the result.

[Midaski]

Sorry Steg - didn't register what you had done - I guessed a link to an old topic.
Not sure if the Town Square will get the views - we'll see.

I would start with a simple three main sections I think:

1.  Fantasy -

2.  Painting and Modelling - Figures and scenery

3.  40K   


How we subdivide those sections is then another question.
Fantasy would be the most difficult as you could go to three sub-sections

a.  "Traditional Warhammer Lives on"  including old editions, 8th and 9th age

b.  AoS

c.  Other games:   and this is where it gets tricky as you have to decide whether there are just threads on a particular game - like Frostgrave for example - or dedicated child-boards for say KoW


Something needs to be done as there are outdated boards and outdated board descriptions.

That's just the forums - we all know the main site needs a revamp and a Gallery and Workshop and Library back up and running.

[StealthKnightSteg]

and my opinion on that is the reorganisation won't have that much of an effect, due to outside factors, as discussed above.

If it's easy to do then there's no real reason not to try, but I think the end result, if you add more sub-fora to the AoS section, would simply be a lot more barely active sections, rather than one quas-active one in AoS. in the same way we don't need a painting, army list, tactic, battle report sub division of 40k.

the KoW section on lustria online has 9 total topics.


Having said that i cant remember the last time I posted in the EF.
May as well try, even if i'm pessimistic about the result.

Yeah KoW isn't lifting up on Lustria.. mentioned it for completeness sake.
But now that you mentioned 40K it might even be an idea to actually do that! If we might give it more focus to be a home for Space Marine factions? As I understand it 40k doesn't have much in the sense of dedicated forums anyway. And as Space Marines is more or less the 40k equivalent of The Empire that might work.

Though I do think it might be helpfull to be a bit more promoting amongst FB groups for example to get their traffic towards us aswell.

@Midaski .. I think we are derailing this topic now  might be an idea to make this it's own thread or to combine it with the thread I already made?

[DariusZero]

I don't want a debate about GW and AoS

I want a discussion about whether reorganising the site would make things better?

Maybe not so much reorganising but rather broadening the scope. Let's move from warhammer and Games workshop exclusiveness to a more open, all brands of miniatures site, but with the accent on the empire-ish style and flavor. For example the thread Other manufacturers could be renamed into something like News from the manufacturers.

I see no reason to be so loyal to the GW brand.

[Finlay]

and my opinion on that is the reorganisation won't have that much of an effect, due to outside factors, as discussed above.

If it's easy to do then there's no real reason not to try, but I think the end result, if you add more sub-fora to the AoS section, would simply be a lot more barely active sections, rather than one quas-active one in AoS. in the same way we don't need a painting, army list, tactic, battle report sub division of 40k.

the KoW section on lustria online has 9 total topics.


Having said that i cant remember the last time I posted in the EF.
May as well try, even if i'm pessimistic about the result.

Yeah KoW isn't lifting up on Lustria.. mentioned it for completeness sake.
But now that you mentioned 40K it might even be an idea to actually do that! If we might give it more focus to be a home for Space Marine factions? As I understand it 40k doesn't have much in the sense of dedicated forums anyway. And as Space Marines is more or less the 40k equivalent of The Empire that might work.

Though I do think it might be helpfull to be a bit more promoting amongst FB groups for example to get their traffic towards us aswell.

@Midaski .. I think we are derailing this topic now  might be an idea to make this it's own thread or to combine it with the thread I already made?

I don't really think a dedicated 40k section fits in here, unless we're talking a total re-brand. Afterall there is no such thing as "warhammer" (as we know, ibf "aos is still warhammer) or "empire" anymore.

are new 40k players going to come to a site called warhammer-empire, or search for it?

I just want to post about 40k here as it has the community I already know and want to interact with.




I do prefer a sort of "fantasy human-empire ish minitatures" re-brand, though, which would allow space for AoS.

[StealthKnightSteg]

are new 40k players going to come to a site called warhammer-empire, or search for it?

maybe not in that specific regard, but they might if that had a subtext going.
something along the lines of:

Everything Human wargaming related, may that be The Empire (WHFB), Empire of Sonnsthal(9th), Space Marines(40k), Free People/Stormcast Eternals (AoS), can be found here.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

but sisters of battle, imperial guard, and adeptus mechanicus are also from the 40k equivalent to the empire. 

[StealthKnightSteg]

but sisters of battle, imperial guard, and adeptus mechanicus are also from the 40k equivalent to the empire. 

As I'm not a 40k player nor have I read the fluff of the stuff (yet). I'm sorry.

"Forces of the Emperor" better? 

[GamesPoet]

Edit: I've split this from one of the "Thought" threads.

We had a discussion last year about how we reacted to AoS and possibly re-organised the site.

A separate section was set up for AoS, rather hastily in my opinion in the end to try and stop the arguing, and there has been the occasional mention by staff since about reviewing the whole site.

The situation had gone from bad to worse.  It seemed to reduce the tention, despite losing a member or more along the way.

I personally think there are things we can do to make the site better, improve the organisation, and see if we can recapture the traffic and atmosphere we had.

Open to comments, but be constructive - no long rants about GW or AoS.

What could be organised better?

Depends on what the goal is, and where things are headed.  The most natural direction seems to be to have something that moves in parallel with the Free Peoples, yet no guarantee what that is going to be yet, nor whether or not this is going to attract old timers.  As for recapturing the traffic, those who have given up on WFB because it isn't supported, while at the same time not liking W:AoS, they could be gone from regular involvement for good.  That means to perhaps adjust the site to attract newer players, meaning those who are involved with W:AoS, if it succeeds.  I'm not interested in having this thread degenerate into the pro and cons of W:AoS either, and instead talking more big picture for the future of the site.

Also, with GW ditching the Olde World, my sense is that over time there won't be new folks coming on board to keep the Empire going, and

What Board options would you like to see?

What are we covering badly, and what is being done well or ok?

If you have suggestions for Boards > Child Boards then name and show them in the breakdown you would like to see.
I made some suggestions further down - suggest other alternatives if you want.

Going to give this some more thought.

At the same time, I'm with Finlay on the 40K area.  I don't see it as a main aspect for this forum, but instead more of a side show for those who are involved with the community as a whole.

Also, the theme for this forum site was fairly obvious before, Warhammer-Empire.  Without Empire being supported, the question becomes is it possible to keep the flavor of the Olde and still draw others into the site, and if so, the structure of the site needs to reflect that.

Also, it is mentioned that there are some "suggestions further down", but not sure where those are located?

[Aldaris]

I'm not sure I can offer much insight into the reorganization of the site as a whole, since I haven't visited what you'd consider the main section in months, at least.

I would like the BT to be kept around though, to start with. Off the top of my head: since the gamer thread is super active and has been for a long time it might be worth its own subforum. Might be easier to keep track of and keep talking about games you're interested in longer term, but it could dilute and fracture the people talking about this into separate threads with not much interaction.

40K sub is fine as it is IMO. CT as well.

I would definitely keep the name W-E since it's rather well known and has been for many years, but I agree that the focus needs to broaden if drawing in newer members is a big concern.

[Victor]

Something needs to be done as there are outdated boards and outdated board descriptions.

That's just the forums - we all know the main site needs a revamp and a Gallery and Workshop and Library back up and running.

I have talked to Warhammer_Soth about that only a few days ago. Warhammer-empire.com has been on life support for years now. Things like the gallery never happened (or were never brought back), there is no option to create polls any more, the site was reduced down to the forum (the war room, workshop, library, chat, etc. are all long gone). I know it takes quite a bit of effort and time to implement such things, so I'm definitely not blaming anyone if nothing is happening. But I think that we need someone, who has the time and the know-how, to get things done.

The forum structure isn't that bad I think. Some sub-forums could probably be combined (like the Town Square and The Altdorf Press for example) and some of the descriptions and names could be changed. But I'm against giving 40k and AoS an equal standing on this site.

I would much prefer to also cater to people collecting human Mordheim warbands, Dogs of War players/collectors and the like. Another group that I would love to get more involved on this forum would be the scenery and terrain crowd (for lack of a better name). I have been browsing this mordheim forum for example: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/ Some of the scenery projects on there are simply amazing and it would be great to get people like that to also post on this very forum, because they would be a perfect fit for warhammer-empire.com, but that requires the set up of (a) new sub-forum(s). Another brilliant scenery & terrain forum that I used to visit, closed down some months ago due to declining activity. There are plenty of potential new members out there ... we just need to create an atmosphere again, that motivates and inspires people to post more content, which in turn gets new people to sign up and participate as well.


PS.: Completely unrelated and not really relevant: I have noticed that my post counter appears to be broken. I can do 2 posts, before the counter adds 1. Or maybe I'm just imagining things.

[Midaski]

Also, it is mentioned that there are some "suggestions further down", but not sure where those are located?

Reply 9 wasn't readable then ...........................

PS.: Completely unrelated and not really relevant: I have noticed that my post counter appears to be broken. I can do 2 posts, before the counter adds 1. Or maybe I'm just imagining things.

Posts in the BT are not included so it may be that.

[Gankom]

I personally like the idea of expanding a bit to include more miniature lines, perhaps focusing on human factions from the different games. It's probably easiest to divide things like Midaski say's. Fantasy, that's subdivided further. Project logs and painting, that can include everything. Maybe split into fantasy/40k section but preferably not. Then a 40k/sci fi section.

Fixing up the rest of the site would certainly help as well. Even with traffic down, this is probably one of the most active warhammer forums I've seen recently. Most activity is in a few sections, but that's the same for everyone really. Even Warseer had sections with no recent posts for months.

One of the things I've always liked was how the painting section may focus on Empire models, but included pretty much anything and everything. I really don't think that should change, so perhaps try for the various sections to not be the only place that projects get posted.

If we can attract painters/modellers/scenery makers from some of the other dying sites, even just to our painting section, that would be a good boost. Keeping the focus on human factions keeps with tradition and the general interest of the majority of forum goers here so far.

[Gankom]

Just in regards to Aldaris point about the gaming thread in the Back Table. I don't know if a whole section for gaming is needed, but I know for sure theres been lots of times I was going to post in the gaming thread but didn't because I didn't want to divert whatever was currently being talked about.

I also agree on keeping the name Warhammer-Empire. Perhaps it doesn't have to be in regards to just the old warhammer faction/models and instead make it about an Empire of players and games.

[Midaski]

As some members are either 'Pure of Heart' or choose not to visit the BT I am going to move this to the CT

[Karl Voss of Averland]

As some members are either 'Pure of Heart' or choose not to visit the BT I am going to move this to the CT

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than the back table.



My sentiments are pretty much the same as Gankom. I think we could expand to be inclusive of other similar hobbies/games. Many members already participate in things like Frostgrave/Mordheim. I think we could draw some more population by supporting these in addition to Warhammer.

I'd also like to attract more of the artistic side of the hobbies culture and feature more painting/crafting as Gankom suggested.

I think the forum structure is fairly good. Maybe rearrange a few things here and there, but the forum structurally is pretty set. Adding too many subforums will mean there will be places with fewer posts of frequency.

A lot of features don't work as previously mentioned. Those could either be redeveloped or removed/replaced. I understand that takes both time and skill, so I don't see it as a critical need to the site.


Overall the site could use some clean up/dusting, but nothing too drastic as to scare away the veterans.

[ZeroTwentythree]

I've never felt like there was something I wanted to post but didn't already have a place on this forum. I do understand the possibility of needing to restructure to reflect the changes in gaming, though. So what about replacing the Electors Forum , the AoS discussion, and the Counts Tavern with a more general "fantasy discussion" forum? If that means cracking down on complaints/trolls about AoS, I don't think that's an out of line expectation for a reasonable community of wargamers. (I don't see people trolling each other over their choice of game on the Lead Adventure gantasy board, for example.)

I enjoy the community here, and don't want to see it diminish & disappear. But as people lose interest in both Warhammer and the Empire, I think it would be great to accomodate new options/directions in a very broad way.