Topic: Ways to improve the GoE

[Warboss Niblet]

The generic general of the empire is a much maligned character as the other 3 choices as just generally better options.  I was thinking about what could be done to make the general more viable.

1. Make more imperial banners 50 points or less.
2. Increase LD radius to 18".
3. Make the unit he is in either immune to psych or able to reroll failed psych tests.
4. Give him the rod of command power as an innate ability.
5. Let one unit of greatswords be core if he is the general.
6. Let any unit within 6" reroll failed psych tests.
7. Increase his magic Item allowance to 150 points to represent family heirlooms (not unlike the banner rule).
8. Make the gryphon suck less.
9. Lower the costs of state infantry units by 1-2 points if he is the general.

That is about all I can think of right now.  Now obviously I don't think they should ALL be applied but any one or two options from the list I think would make him more useful and definitely more seen.  What do you all think?

[Powder Monkey]

18 inch Ld or greatswords as core, please!


Your Lt.Gen. Monkey

[Finlay]

1 unit of greatswords as core, and putting the griffon banner back to 50 points would fix him.

[Shadowlord]

1 unit of greatswords as core, and putting the griffon banner back to 50 points would fix him.

That would make me park my Altar for good even if I use GoE 50% of my normal games.

I seldom use the Grandmaster and anything below, except today, 3,000 pts will never see a lvl3-4 in my army.

[Obi]

1. Make more imperial banners 50 points or less.

Amendment: make more useful Imperial Banners 50 points or less

2. Increase LD radius to 18".

too powerful, that's only for great leaders

3. Make the unit he is in either immune to psych or able to reroll failed psych tests.

good idea, but see #2

4. Give him the rod of command power as an innate ability.

that's a good idea

5. Let one unit of greatswords be core if he is the general.

see #2

6. Let any unit within 6" reroll failed psych tests.

great idea

7. Increase his magic Item allowance to 150 points to represent family heirlooms (not unlike the banner rule).

Pure genius!

8. Make the gryphon suck less.

It doesn't!

9. Lower the costs of state infantry units by 1-2 points if he is the general.

Undoable. Way too powerful. An average army will hold about 60-75 state troops, bare minimum. That would save you 100 points! That makes the genny free!

[Shadoweyed]

I could understand maybe allowing one core unit to upgrade its Light Armor to Heavy for something like 1 point per model. But I see the General as a pretty decent character as he is. There is nothing that really stands out about him other than he can shoot and withstand combat decently. He is not as powerful as some, but you are also not taking a specailized character choice. He is the General of the Empire, a Jack of all Trades type of charater. And he is cheap to boot!

-Shadoweyed

[Warboss Niblet]

Basically I just see the GoE as a support character unlike the other lords that actually go out and do things.  Thats why most of the abilities are LD based.  I see him as a cheap source of LD 9 so I figured why not build on that first.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Decent does not cut it today, Shadoweyed.
Is there any army out there, against which the GoE is a better or equal choice, compared to the Arch Lector? Hmm... maybe dwarfs, but I don´t know.
That he is cheap is no real bonus, cause what can you get for those extra points? A few more men?
What is needed today is magic defence and maybe offense. What is needed is something that boost the troops.
The ability to hand out a 50 point banner used to be that, but since those banners are rather useless, bar that MR2 one and that will most likely end up with some knights anyway. Ah... yes. Of course, the best of the best, the War banner. Silly me...

It does not cut. If you take the GoE, you plan for a fluffy list that will also be soft. Sure, you can add mages and priest for the rest of the slots, but that means you will not have a BSB that can help with holding the troops in place. And with the BSB, you magic defence will be medium at best. Could be done with Priest and mage, or two mages, but it would be a scroll caddie+Rod of Power defence. Workable, but that means no priests, and their hatred is so good for our lads.

At 3000 points, well, a GoE can come in as second in command, but at the normal levels, he is only there for fun, and when the going gets tough, the Arch lector or the Wizard lords will have to ask him to step aside and leave room for the real warriors.

And I agree with Shadowlord. 1 Greatsword as core + Griffon banner at 50 points, and he is back in buisness again, as an interesting choice. As for now, he is only amusing, and more useful than engineers...

[redflag]

How about the General of the Empire's family heirloom being considered a battle standard.  In effect if  you are geting a free warbanner which allows rerolls within 12 inches of this banner.

[Shadowlord]

And I agree with Shadowlord. 1 Greatsword as core + Griffon banner at 50 points, and he is back in buisness again, as an interesting choice. As for now, he is only amusing, and more useful than engineers...

Credit goes to notts for that one, but personally I use the GoE due to my army's background and against some armies, combined with a 4+ Ward save and Rod of Command, he will make a difference. But not as much as my AL does when he rides out on his mobile chariot of many aces...

[sniperjolly]

Personnaly LD 10 would be better than 18 inch LD, even though somehow LD 10 is sort of against my idea of the Empire.

I love the 150 pts of magic items thing though. Then you could have a runefang and (insert item here) holy relic, for example.

[Finlay]

150 pts magic item idea is TERRIBLE as the only good thing about the GotE is his cheapness, and this would completely erase that.

and Obi, I find it amusing you think giving him the rod of command as an innate ability is less powerful than letting them take GS as core...

I really think this would almost help "fix" empire too, giving most armies stubborn infantry core while allowing them to access our excellent special choices.

[Johan Willhelm]

I'd lower the cost of the Runefang and keep it GofE only.

He's not that bad and not that good. Perfect for the Empire 

The main problem is the major perk of the GofE is the Griffon which removes his other majordraw. High Ld to the rest of the force . .

More decent banners coupled with Family Heirloom rule would indeed be nice.

[rufus sparkfire]

1 unit of greatswords as core, and putting the griffon banner back to 50 points would fix him.

I like that suggestion. Also, make the flufftastic runefang cheaper so it can actually be used.

[phillyt]

The GoTE is perfectly fine as he is.  There is no need to modify him, though some bump could make him a better selection compared to the AL.  I still used him 99% of the time.  The AL is even worse in combat, unfluffy, and more than 50% more expensive while offering no bonus leadership wise.

Phil

[rufus sparkfire]

The GoTE is perfectly fine as he is. 

There's not much to say to that except, 'no, he really isn't.'

The Elector Count has never been a great character for the points cost, and changing the price on the griffon banner made his special rule deeply underwhelming. He's not broken or useless, but he's not good by any means.

Giving him a core unit of greatswords would be really fluffy too!

[Lord Etharion]

I like the one unit of greatswords as core rule. Taking pressure off of special slots is a strong draw, and one that makes sense fluffwise: A GotE army is going to be more professional than a AL/GM one.

Apart from that, there's no need to change the GotE entry itself, unless perhaps to change the points allowance on the banner. The GotE would become a lot more viable if there were more useful magic banners. Changing the Icon of Magnus to a banner would be helpful, as would making it possible to take the banner of Sigismund , but there are probably other useful banner ideas as well.

And having some general-specific magic items that allowed you to change terrain after table sides are set (eg gaining a hill or fortification, or removing same from the enemy), or redeploy a unit, or even a bonus on the role for table sides or first turn, to reflect the fact that the General is a more considered, tactical kind of leader than the other choices.

I'd also consider making an 'elector count' upgrade for the general: For +100 points he comes equipped with a runefang, 0-1 per army.

[rufus sparkfire]

The runefang isn't really worth one hundred points though. Not when you only have three attacks and lowish weaponskill.

And having some general-specific magic items that allowed you to change terrain after table sides are set (eg gaining a hill or fortification, or removing same from the enemy), or redeploy a unit, or even a bonus on the role for table sides or first turn, to reflect the fact that the General is a more considered, tactical kind of leader than the other choices.

I like that - some armies in WAB have rules along those lines ('master strategist'). But I bet we'd hear the usual whining from elf players about how elves are ten billion years old and thus should be best at everything.


I'd like the Elector to be able to take a brace of pistols. Maybe even a repeater pistol or long rifle - if he can't afford to buy one, who can?

[sniperjolly]

a bit off topic, but I was dissapointed that the engineer coulden't take 2 reapeter pistols.

how about an elector count having +1 or 2 attacks?

[Folken]

a bit off topic, but I was dissapointed that the engineer coulden't take 2 reapeter pistols.

how about an elector count having +1 or 2 attacks?

Remember what he is supposed to be, he is not supposed to be a surperior warrior.  His job is to command the troops so his power should come through his army.  Rather then a greatsword as core could make it +1 special choice? This would make it have a broader usefulness as some generals will want to bring another artillery train.

[Folken]

Oh and this I don't get, why does the rules say a unit of state troops can bring a magical standard up to 50 points when the only 50 points standard cannot be taken by state troops?
  stupid  book  rubbing  it  in  our  faces 

[phillyt]

The Elector Count has never been a great character for the points cost, and changing the price on the griffon banner made his special rule deeply underwhelming. He's not broken or useless, but he's not good by any means.

All I need is a virtually unkillable character (he can get a 0+ AS and 4+ ward) and a LD 9.  He does that while the Archlector cannot at the same point total.

Phil

[Huntsmen]

I agree with Philly here. The GotE is just fine. Hes the best character we've got for leading a infantry block. The Arch lector as hatred which I find is to easy to trap my unit. This means he has to go with either knights (Ld affected) or Greatswords. The GotE is cheap and very versatile. You can still have a good magic phase with a Wizard with Rod and a Priest and provides that all needed Ld9 cheaply and safely.

[redflag]

Philly,

   The AOMI is cheaper way of having either an GOtE or an Archlector have a 1+ armor save than if they used their best conventional armor combination (plus enchanted shield for the Archlector).  Considering that an Archlector can make the unit he is with unbreakable  via prayers (which in order for your opponent to dispel will require the wasting of 2 dispel dice in your phase or two power dice in his phase) and adds 2 dispel dice to your dispel pool you can argue that he is cheaper than a GOtE if all you want is a non fighting "leadership for the army" lord. 

    I strongly disagree that the GOtE is perfect statement (there is always room for improvement  ).  While I agree that not making the Griffon standard a standard issue magical banner for the GOtE was a good move there is the perception by a significant percentage of empire players that GW did not give careful consideration to the family heirloom rule when it wrote the 7th edition book, and thats what irks players. It appears that they just raised the cost of the Griffin standard in order to solve the Griffin standard complaint by opposing players (which is valid in my opinion )and did not make any replacement for this standard issue magical banner. Something as simple as making the family heirloom  the equivalent of the war banner or adding a new 50 point magical banner that can be used by infantry would have erased the perception that some players have in regards to the 7th edition GOtE changes being a rush job.   

[Huntsmen]

Philly never said he was perfect just that hes still a valid and useful option.

*back away before Philly comes back*