Topic: Is every1 still playing 8th ed?

[Baron von Klatz]

@Mathi, Well on the first part, it's really great to hear your girlfriend would rather fight alongside you rather than against you.

On the second part I very much understand what you mean. I'll definitely let you know when GW starts focusing on the humble soldier in AoS. Though probably we'll be seeing a battletome for re-using Empire models before we get a proper Free Peoples release.

A comforting thought is that a delayed release means much more work will be put into their models ande fluff.

Short answer : Yes.


That said, I'm afraid I will be forced to try AoS at some point, if only to welcome new players to our club...

We're always happy to help you out at the AoS section if you have any questions.

Also, this project might interest you as another way to play AoS if the regular version doesn't set well with you.

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/5923-hinterlands-skirmish-campaigns-in-the-mortal-realms/

[Army of Hochland]

There is quite a mix at my old local club, 9th age, and Age of Sigmar with myself and one other playing the odd game of Kings of War. No one is playing 8th, everyone has converted over to 9th age. Those playing Age of Sigmar didn't really play warhammer fantasy much before, they are mainly 40K players.

I'm not keen on 9th age, or Age of Sigmar, I'm playing Saga and Bolt Action at another local club.

[jtrowell]

@Mathi Alfblut, note than in KoW most artefacts are not restricted to heroes only, they can also be used to customize your normal units.

Want to field both your white lions and swordmasters in the same elven army, but it feel wrong to use the same "Palage guard" profile (veteran elves with great weapons) for both units ?

Put the brew of strength on one unit and they will be your white lions, and your swordmasters can be vanilla Palace Guard (or use a different artefact, maybe the chant of Hate so they get both elite and vicious, or the Fog to represent their agility and arrow deflection ?)

[Baron Von Griffon]

8th edition is still alive where I play.

[KevinC]

I'm not happy with the way 9th Age are turning to. Each edition of their rulebook is more different from the original 8th edition. Each edition introduces more rules. Now you need a calculator to make the simpliest army list. They points has doubled (which makes every comparison with previous editions wrong in terms of scale). Now they have created their own background...
In their obsession for balance in competition games they forget the spirit of the game. But the problem is not the rulebook. Never will be a perfectly balanced rulebok; the problem is the players who squeeze their lists to win at all costs. And these types of players will always exist. So, stop updating the rulebook constantly, because it already tires ...

No, I love Warhammer not only for the rules, games or miniatures but also for their stories: about Gotrek and Felix, about the Empire, about Nagash, about Von carsteins, about the War of the Beard, etc...

Rogers Kul, you speak of all the issues why I was never interested in the 9th Age to begin with...

I've been playing WFB for 30 years, and although the classic GW models are what drew me to the game, the WFB background is really what kept me enthralled through the years.

I've played almost all the editions of WFB, and 8th edition is BY FAR the most balanced (and my fav edition). And when I say this I mean at every level, for example in 8th you can't make an army designed to completely avoid combat and frustrate your opponent and actually have a good chance of winning.

Although I've played in many GTs over the years, and even won two of them, I never fancied myself as a "tournament player." Many tournament players were all about fine tuning army lists to make the most broken list possible. In my experience, it are those players that didn't really like 8th edition, because the game play made it most difficult to abuse the rules. For example, in 8th, march blocking is not automatic, the Winds of Magic are random - meaning you can't rely on heavy magic to win the day, skirmishers are no longer amazing, random charge moves eliminates precision movement, etc. These elements of 8th edition, whether one likes them or not, are what greatly helps balance WFB 8th edition.

Anyway, I believe you're annoyed with how people make lists in 9th Age because that's where a lot of tournament players fled to.

What I would say to those who still want to play 8th edition, but feel they cannot because no one else in the area plays: BE the catalyst of 8th in your area. Start off by asking (or pleading!) just one of your friends/gaming group to play a game of 8th. Once that happens, try requesting a 8th game for once a month or week, etc. You might be surprised if you just really keep pushing the issue to play the game.

In the mean time, come talk about 8th with the 8th Edition Lifers... http://eefl.freeforums.net

EEFL!

[Artobans Ghost]

@KevinC -  In my experience, it are those players that didn't really like 8th edition, because the game play made it most difficult to abuse the rules.

I hadn't thought about this but it actually explains an attitude shift with some of the big gun tournament players that I knew. I personally really liked 8th as I did 7th as it made it more fun to play. (As it is I was never a 'good' general. If I was in real life I'm sure the troops would have slipped a skiv in my back at some point)

[Rogers Kul]

What I would say to those who still want to play 8th edition, but feel they cannot because no one else in the area plays: BE the catalyst of 8th in your area. Start off by asking (or pleading!) just one of your friends/gaming group to play a game of 8th. Once that happens, try requesting a 8th game for once a month or week, etc. You might be surprised if you just really keep pushing the issue to play the game.

I'm seriously thinking bout this. And the more people I'm talking about it (including also tournament players), the more I feel this is a general feeling.

I'm not happy with the way 9th Age are turning to. Each edition of their rulebook is more different from the original 8th edition. Each edition introduces more rules. Now you need a calculator to make the simpliest army list. They points has doubled (which makes every comparison with previous editions wrong in terms of scale). Now they have created their own background...

I disagree with this.
All the stuff you stated was done because of copyright issues(You can thank GW for that).
I have not read the background yet but once you get passed a few name changes its probably not a big deal?
The points doubling....c'mon. That is not even an issue.

I'm not discussing about copyright or other legal term. I'm really NOT interested on that. Simply I don't like the way the rules are going on.
And points doubling may is not be an issue for you. For me, it is.

The nice thing is that with 9th age the fluff is free use. So lots of good writers can make as many new stories as they wish.

But I don't wan't different stories. I have GoT novels, LotR novels, Forgotten Realms novels... but I want to maintain my battles in Warhammer world. No others.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

From  the infos I've gathered , the background of  9th age will try to get more and more original, for example they probably will introduce three more dark gods (not stands in for Malal, Nehoco, Zuvassin).

And while 8th edition  was maybe most balanced i found it to be imho the lowest point for Warhammer setting and atmosphere ( from art to rules as uber spells,silly magical terrains, all those fluff changes, weird new units...)

[KevinC]

And while 8th edition  was maybe most balanced i found it to be imho the lowest point for Warhammer setting and atmosphere ( from art to rules as uber spells,silly magical terrains, all those fluff changes, weird new units...)

Bartolo, while I can see your point about terrain, uber spells and weird units were always apart of Warhammer. Fluff changes were minor. The 6th edition of Warhammer stripped the fluff right out of game in a big way. Then in 7th edition they started to bring the classic fluff back into the game again. 8th edition army books pretty much are the ultimate army books, they pretty much include a lot of the classic fluff, plus all of the older units left out in 6th edition, plus new stuff.

Also, every edition of Warhammer had some fluff changes...

[Warlord]

Thats funny. I don't remember my 8th edition armybook having:
Winged Lancers
Horse Archers
Halflings
Hot pot
War wagon
Reiksguard foot
Imperial dwarves
Imperial ogres

Every edition is flawed. It comes down to personal preference. No one edition is better than another, except in someones opinion.

Personally, i much preferred 6th and early 7th edition to 8th. But thats because i liked tactics, rather than horde bloodbaths, buff magic and super-doom spells.

If step up was in those earlier editions, as well as a few other tweaks, that would be my ideal.

[Xathrodox86]

From  the infos I've gathered , the background of  9th age will try to get more and more original, for example they probably will introduce three more dark gods (not stands in for Malal, Nehoco, Zuvassin).

And while 8th edition  was maybe most balanced i found it to be imho the lowest point for Warhammer setting and atmosphere ( from art to rules as uber spells,silly magical terrains, all those fluff changes, weird new units...)

Balanced? The reliance on hordes, the absurd power levels of certain armybooks (High Elves), massive streamlining of classical, fluffy rules (now Warrior Priests, Shadow Warriors and Dark Elves hate everybody, because reasons) and the butchering of magic items sections. These are only a few flaws of the 8th edition, which, unsurprisingly, was the last edition to ever "grace" our tabletops.

6th was perhaps less "epic", but I'll take it any day of the week, over the clusterf*** that was the 8th.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

6th was perhaps less "epic", but I'll take it any day of the week, over the clusterf*** that was the 8th.

I agree with you!  6th edition may have had problems in rules (fleeing, unbalanced magic Lores till the FAQs came out, the poor dark elves...) but it was far better (IMHO) for campaigns, supplement, themed armies,it was playable from skirmish to bigger battles, fluff and art quality were superior  and overall it hadn't silly ideas like Flying boats, ethereal walls,Ka-boom spells...

[S.O.F]

Thats funny. I don't remember my 8th edition armybook having:
Winged Lancers
Horse Archers
Halflings
Hot pot
War wagon
Reiksguard foot
Imperial dwarves
Imperial ogres

Every edition is flawed. It comes down to personal preference. No one edition is better than another, except in someones opinion.

Pretty much this

[Xathrodox86]

6th was perhaps less "epic", but I'll take it any day of the week, over the clusterf*** that was the 8th.

I agree with you!  6th edition may have had problems in rules (fleeing, unbalanced magic Lores till the FAQs came out, the poor dark elves...) but it was far better (IMHO) for campaigns, supplement, themed armies,it was playable from skirmish to bigger battles, fluff and art quality were superior  and overall it hadn't silly ideas like Flying boats, ethereal walls,Ka-boom spells...

I remember Albion and Lustria campaigns. Also at that time BL novels were often directly tied to 6th edition events, like SoC. It was a good time for WFB.

[Rogers Kul]

Yes, it was... with "realistic" illustrations and not the extravagant 40k style of John Blanche...
But I always preferred 7th edition.

Anyway, 8th edition also have good points for me.

[Xathrodox86]

Yes, it was... with "realistic" illustrations and not the extravagant 40k style of John Blanche...
But I always preferred 7th edition.

Anyway, 8th edition also have good points for me.

6th edition had the best art style IMO. Gritty, semi-realistic, just awesome dark fantasy style. Meanwhile Empire's 8th edition codex has Empire soldiers fighting daemonic ground and daemonic trees.

[KevinC]

Thats funny. I don't remember my 8th edition armybook having:
Winged Lancers
Horse Archers
Halflings
Hot pot
War wagon
Reiksguard foot
Imperial dwarves
Imperial ogres

Every edition is flawed. It comes down to personal preference. No one edition is better than another, except in someones opinion.

-----I forgot what forum I was on!

Regarding Empire, during 6th edition an effort was made to make the Empire more about the Men of the Empire and that stuck. Back in 4th/5th edition days, people really did make Empire armies like a kind of Dogs of War army. Still, I wish they never dropped Halflings.

Regarding balance, I don't believe it's an opinion. And I'm not speaking of person choices. The fact is, in 8th edition, it is much more difficult than other editions to abuse the rules. Here are some examples:

- In previous editions, a good player could completely abuse the power of skirmishers and fast cav. If fact you could make an all fast cav or skirmisher army, dash around your enemies to avoid all combat, and defeat your opponent soundly. Meanwhile the game was no fun at all.

- Fear in editions other than 8th was totally crazy, if you lost combat to a fear causer, and you were outnumbered, you broke auto! In fact, psychology in general was too much. Low leadership stuff was extremely fragile - and you could not reroll with the BSB.

- 6/7th edition the player could build their lists to determine how many magic dice they could get each phase. 8th might have some big spells, but the Winds of Magic are random, and armies are suppose to be larger. If you want to dominate your enemies with magic, play 6th and 7th edition, you can have your mighty magic phase every turn and crush your opponent without getting into combat!

- Speaking of magic, if you played Vampire Counts and also had half a brain, you might lose to bad luck about once everyone ten games. With the power of magic, fear, and raise the dead, Undead armies were all but unbeatable.

- More on magic, actually with being able to stack your power dice, the big spells in 6th were devastating. I remember Orcs & Goblins players never took a proper Warboss to lead their armies because the Shaman Lord was insane! The Foot of Gork with the double dohus or the reroll staff made Orcs pretty gross. You could destroy entire armies with that combo. You can even go back to at least one 6th edition battle report in WD where this happens. On the tournament scene is was a regular sight.

- 6th edition saw the rise of the Tzeentch flying circus, perhaps the greatest force to blast your enemies away and avoid combat. Sound like fun ?

- The Skink skirmish army, run circles around your enemy shooting them with poison missiles while your Slann blast them with magic. Avoid combat and win!

- The Dark Elf Dark Rider army (see tactics for Tzeentch flying circus and Skink skirmish armies above - key tactic: don't engage in combat, no matter how much your opponent complains).

- Skaven were also totally insane in 6th edition, heavy shooting army backed by huge units of cheap infantry. Warp-lightening, magic, and remember the Rattling Guns when they hit auto? Skaven were probably the hardest army in 6th, along with Vampires.

- Storm of Chaos, while a totally awesome supplement and campaign, the armies were super hard in there. The Daemon Legions list was gross.

- March blocking, which made a lot of the above armies successful, was nothing but an extremely frustrating part of the game that players used to make magic/shooty armies work really well. Back then if an enemy model was with 8", you were march blocked automatically and could not march. Obviously used to slow down armies while they were blasted by magic and missiles.

- People constantly complained that High Elves and Dark Elves were weak and 'sucked' and so you never saw them.

- Tournaments were made of: Skaven, Vampires, Lizards, Daemon Legions.

- 6th edition army books had hardly no fluff, and dropped a lot of classic units: Steams Tanks, War Wagons, Forest Goblins, Spider-Riders, all the classic special characters, etc.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

The reason I'm saying 8th is the most balance is because you can't do all the uber stuff described above. You can't make an army to avoid combat in 8th and have a realistic chance of winning. The random elements of the game, such as charge moves and the winds of magic, make it so a player losing the game can make a comeback and win.

For those of you who like 6th edition best, did you simply forget about the stuff I mentioned? Or do you play those armies? Or did you, some how, simply not encounter those type of armies and play style?

While I enjoyed playing 6th when it was the current WFB, many games were frustrating. In 8th, I never have games like that. Player must engage in combat, players cannot just rely on shooting and magic to win, psychology and LD checks do not dominate the game.

This is why I'm saying it's a fact, not an opinion, that 8th is the most balance. You could take the most amount of people and put them in one game room to play and I believe they would have the most fun compared to previous editions of the game. For me, if I'm not auto marched blocked, I'm having a good time, period.

[Midaski]

When discussing previous editions - or even the new 9th Age - we should really distinguish between the Core or Main (Big Red) Book and then the army books.

I think most gamers who go back to 6th Edition or before would agree that one of the big complaints about GW was army book creep. Every time they redid an army (releasing new figures) they had to make them uber-attractive as they wanted to sell loads. I am sure the GW suits aimed that every gamer would buy every new release and have every army ................

I had lost interest in Fantasy, before 8th and wasn't inspired by it.
I decided to let 9th Age settle before I even looked at it in any depth, because there was no way it would be got right all in one go.
However one of the things that keeps me hopeful is that they can do all the army books close together without the prejudice or pressure of 'sales'.

I was surprised that the organisers did all the name changes - GW 'cancelled' or ended their interest, and actually changed the names themselves to all the AoS terms.
It would hardly be in their interest to go after anybody on IP grounds, when (1) No money was being made and (2) their existing units would be more likely to carry on selling.

If in 9th Age the black powder empire troopers were called Handgunners then maybe people would buy GW Missile State troopers over Warlord Games Pike & Shotte Musketeers for example?

 

[GamesPoet]

Didn't enjoy what I saw of 8th, so I haven't played it.

I came into WFB at the end of 6th edition, enjoyed it, and rapidly moved to 7th edition when it arrived, and enjoyed that as well.

[Bartolo Miachevelia]

- 6th edition army books had hardly no fluff, and dropped a lot of classic units: Steams Tanks, War Wagons, Forest Goblins, Spider-Riders, all the classic special characters, etc.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

Quality is more important of quantity. Steam Tanks had rules in Warhammer Chronicles and they included many variants of it (you could order bitz to build them from Mail Order) afterall Steam Tank had a new miniature in 6th ed, spider riders were at end of O&G army books, themed armies, together with spider swarms(thanks Sigmar Arachnaroks were only described in Lustria book and not common in all Warhammer World forests like in 8th), classic special characters with miniature had rules in GW website ,Warhammer Chronicles and White Dwarfs. Kislev had its online supplement, Dogs of War were playable and hireble for other armies and Ravening Hordes lists were pretty balanced.

7th edition edition broke a lot with past, there're certaing things in Chaos fluff that existed since 3rd ed RoC volumes till Liber Chaotica(6th ed.) that were drastically changed . There was an interview to John Blanche in a old WD and it perfectly describe what Warhammer was supposed to be, article title was ''the Illustrated Man''.

I think it's hard to explain but for me rules that convey the setting, atmosphere of the game are more important than the ones that balance it ( thats why i don't like magical terrain, effects described in end game spells) 8th edition lets you have a Demon Prince of Nurgle as general and a Tzeentch  aspiring champion as BsB, enough said.
That's why I'd take 6th edition over 8th also with   Bretonnia and Tzeentch Flying circus, the overpowered skavens, the cavalry winning over infantries...

[S.O.F]

For those of you who like 6th edition best, did you simply forget about the stuff I mentioned? Or do you play those armies? Or did you, some how, simply not encounter those type of armies and play style?

First off the main answer to these questions is really found in Midaski's post:

When discussing previous editions - or even the new 9th Age - we should really distinguish between the Core or Main (Big Red) Book and then the army books.

I don't think many of the proponents of the 6th love the way the edition progressed but more the core rule book Ravening Hordes and the balance and thought that seemed to go into the initial army book releases (Empire, OnG, and Dwarfs). Many of the things you have mentioned were terrible but a failing on the part of the designer that did the army book and not the core system. Skirmishing armies. flying circus armies and their ilk are a terrible bit of games design since a wargame should not cater to 'points denial' and sadly many list began to aim for such. Similarly gum/magic lines also have no place even with some sort of contrived theme. The 8th did indeed address this but took the heavy handed approach of making melee the be all and end all of the day; maneuver, shooting, psychology and magic all need to be a bigger part, at least in my mind than what the 8th offered, it was a fix but not as nuanced as I, or many others, wanted.

The 8th has plenty of flaws too, a poor scenario generation system with entirely wonky battles (watchtower is gamey as hell), terrible terrain options (almost all magical and completely unimaginative in the use of the rather innovative sprained ankle test vs old malus on movement), it scales poorly in smaller games (being that a battle in the 8th is largely fueled on some sort of combat death matrix with almost all buffs and hexs playing into it), and let us not forget the terrible idea that the games designers had that when in need of a special rule lets make it about adding more bloody re-rolls.

Now for the mainly Imperial point:

- 6th edition army books had hardly no fluff, and dropped a lot of classic units: Steams Tanks, War Wagons, all the classic special characters, etc.

How so?

All the core things you needed to know about the Empire were still in the army book simply the presentation changed from omnipotent facts from all knowing writer to those presented by in world scholars. The Empire book contained the same sort of political, geographic, and historical information all of them have, 4th/7th/8th being just c&p of the 4th edition book with a few edits often errors but more often infuriating bits of uber super fantasy fluff. By page count 15 pages of the 6th edition Empire book deal with basic fluff to 18 pages in the 8th edition book, the use of the difference is minuscule and also doesn't count the Blackfire Pass story of the Battle at the Gates of Kislev which push the 6th book to 23 pages.

As for units you ignore that by the end of the 6th an Empire army could field all but the Outriders from the 4th and a true War Wagon (though it could easily proxy in as the fighting platform Steam Tank). A late 6th edition army can be more like a 4th edition 'classic' army than anything you can put on the table in the 8th.

Special characters however are a joke, to which I think the 6th edition rightly treated them as such. Taken them with your opponents permission only since they are ill suited to real game play. Most army book characters in the 6th seemed more like here is an interesting NPC you can work into your RPG but you don't have to rather than the later attempt to sell them as something that is at all interesting by making them legal all the time. One of the core ideas of the Warhammer character system and army creation is that it was up to you, you make the model. paint the model. and play the model how you like in game not per-created 'characters' to work with as you so please. Further on aside here the 6th edition army book has two pages on Luthor Huss to the three paragraphs in the 8th edition book which means, at least as the 8th is concerned, there is hardly any fluff on Luthor Huss in the army book.

The 8th being the more balanced is not a demonstrable fact, it remains and will remain an opinion largely dependent on how one wishes to play the provided ruleset. I certainly agree that an argument can be made that if one takes the sum of all rules plunks down for a beer and pretzel pick up game the 8th will appear the 'more balanced'. However if one is using the game to further a campaign, a themed friendly, or some other such early 6th edition play may in fact be the more balanced. It is all what you are trying to get out of the game and if you find the 8th the best great enjoy it but I certainly don't believe that you can factually prove it is the best for all settings/playstyles/player types.

[The Real Rick Salamone]

KevinC 2020!!


EEFL!
EEFL.freeforums.net

[GamesPoet]

I'm reminded of Monty Python.

[Xathrodox86]

- In previous editions, a good player could completely abuse the power of skirmishers and fast cav. If fact you could make an all fast cav or skirmisher army, dash around your enemies to avoid all combat, and defeat your opponent soundly. Meanwhile the game was no fun at all.

Never saw this happen. In fact how could you make an all skirmisher army? Lizardmen on Skinks? Skaven on Night/Gutter Runners? Seems a bit far fetched to me.

- Fear in editions other than 8th was totally crazy, if you lost combat to a fear causer, and you were outnumbered, you broke auto! In fact, psychology in general was too much. Low leadership stuff was extremely fragile - and you could not reroll with the BSB.

I agree. Then again there's a multum ways in 8th to completely avoid fear, especially for certain armies.

- 6/7th edition the player could build their lists to determine how many magic dice they could get each phase. 8th might have some big spells, but the Winds of Magic are random, and armies are suppose to be larger. If you want to dominate your enemies with magic, play 6th and 7th edition, you can have your mighty magic phase every turn and crush your opponent without getting into combat!

No, sorry but just... no. I've played a couple of battles against HE's in 8th. There was nothing, NOTHING, I could do to stop his magic phase, and I had Wizards and Warrior Priests in every Lord/Hero slot. Meanwhile in 6th I could block magic a lot easier and do not worry about shit like the Purple Sun of Xereus. Even the infamous Pit of Shades was toned down in 6th. That was because of game balance. 6th edition forced you to combine magic with might. In 8th you could just magic your opponent to death with most armies, and there was nothing he could do.

- Speaking of magic, if you played Vampire Counts and also had half a brain, you might lose to bad luck about once everyone ten games. With the power of magic, fear, and raise the dead, Undead armies were all but unbeatable.

Vampire Counts magic in 8th edition is obscenely hard. Then again Vampires, and Undead in general, always had one of the strongest magic phases in every edition of WFB.

- More on magic, actually with being able to stack your power dice, the big spells in 6th were devastating. I remember Orcs & Goblins players never took a proper Warboss to lead their armies because the Shaman Lord was insane! The Foot of Gork with the double dohus or the reroll staff made Orcs pretty gross. You could destroy entire armies with that combo. You can even go back to at least one 6th edition battle report in WD where this happens. On the tournament scene is was a regular sight.

It gave low magic armies a decent chance of casting spells, and breaking strong anti-magic resistance, like that of the Dwarves. Some armies in 8th don't need the stacking, beacuse they're so strong in magic, that it'll always work for them, or almost always.

- 6th edition saw the rise of the Tzeentch flying circus, perhaps the greatest force to blast your enemies away and avoid combat. Sound like fun ?

Almost as fun as the Doomfire Warlock spam for DE's and White Lions with Banner of the World Dragon for HE's in 8th. Don't even get me started on a block of Phoenix Guard with an Archamge inside. Fun times.

- The Skink skirmish army, run circles around your enemy shooting them with poison missiles while your Slann blast them with magic. Avoid combat and win!

Like I've said before, in every edition you can create a bullshit roster. Sort of like 40K's 7th edition Space Marines Skyhammer/Raptor Wing Combo with an Iron Hands Chapter Master on a bike.

- The Dark Elf Dark Rider army (see tactics for Tzeentch flying circus and Skink skirmish armies above - key tactic: don't engage in combat, no matter how much your opponent complains).

Same as above.

- Skaven were also totally insane in 6th edition, heavy shooting army backed by huge units of cheap infantry. Warp-lightening, magic, and remember the Rattling Guns when they hit auto? Skaven were probably the hardest army in 6th, along with Vampires.

Just like VC's, Rats were always good in WFB, that's nothing new. Also all those things that you've mentioned are exactly as deadly in 8th. And in 8th they have even more stuff.

- Storm of Chaos, while a totally awesome supplement and campaign, the armies were super hard in there. The Daemon Legions list was gross.

I agree in 100%. However for me, it was the Sea Patrol with its free round of shooting and the dwarven Slayer army that could win, even when they lost, that really took the cake. However, if I remember correctly, you had to ask your opponent for permission to use those armies in the first place.

- March blocking, which made a lot of the above armies successful, was nothing but an extremely frustrating part of the game that players used to make magic/shooty armies work really well. Back then if an enemy model was with 8", you were march blocked automatically and could not march. Obviously used to slow down armies while they were blasted by magic and missiles.

Yes, that was irritating. I think that Dwarves could negate this, I think, to some extent, but I could be wrong.

- People constantly complained that High Elves and Dark Elves were weak and 'sucked' and so you never saw them.

Weak? No. Most armies were balanced. Except for Skaven, VC's and Chaos Warriors, they were evenly matched. Also look what happened to Elves in later editions. Army wide ASF, even on basic units. That's a bad comedy.

- Tournaments were made of: Skaven, Vampires, Lizards, Daemon Legions.

Never played those. Then again, every tournament list is usually tailored heavily and made from the best units possible, so that's not exactly strange. I like casual gaming. Winning for win's sake, or to make myself feel better, was never my style, so I avoid tournaments and play casual games with my friends. It's about fun, not about who has the biggest, plastic or finecast d**k after all.

- 6th edition army books had hardly no fluff, and dropped a lot of classic units: Steams Tanks, War Wagons, Forest Goblins, Spider-Riders, all the classic special characters, etc.

Nope. Not really. Like Bartolo Miachevelia said, new units were presented in WD's (which was goddamn cool) and they even introduced heroes, who were often absurdly strong AND priced (Karl Franz for 999 points, if I recall correctly). Fluff was plentiful, supplemented by BL books and novels, and even 2nd edition WFRP was connected to the 6th edition WFB (check out the stats for White Wolves cavalry hammer in the Old World Armoury, it has the exact same rules, as those in the Empire Armybook). Not to mention, the fluff for 6th was much more "down to earth", while the fluff of 8th edition had to be epic and over the top, because GW desperately wanted Fantasy to be like 40K.

Also there were more artifacts in 6th edition and fluff-wise, it was also better written. I've already written about Warrior Priests hating only those, who are true enemies of Sigmar, while in 8th they hate everyone, because "we 40keks now, duh!".

I also loved how inconsistent and downright stupid, 8th edition could be. Take for example our beloved Empire. So you have those giant chickens (fluffy as hell for a standard, human army, amirite?) which can be used by IC Knights. It would be cool, if our Grandmaster could use one as well, right? WROOOOONG! No giant chicken for you, Grandmaster man. Begone! Also consider Greatswords - elite, heavy infantry, used to swinging huge pieces of Steel for most of their lives. Veterans all, right? They are Strength 3. Ok, normal human strength, no problem, right? Then you look at Dark Elf Excecutioners... who are Str 4. I guess our Greatswords don't even lift, while those willowy bastards do. Sucks to be us, right?

Now, I don't hate on 8th edition, I really don't. I don't like it, but there are good parts of it, just like there are bad parts of my favourite 6th edition, some of which you've mentioned. In the end, it's a matter of personal prefferences really.

[Noble Korhedron]

My local group has fully switched to The 9th Age. There are some guys picking up Age of Sigmar now that it has rules for playing games, but I'm staying away. I have no interest in that "game".

I don't know anyone in my FLGS actively playing AoS, but I never will; I'll try any ruleset that is free, cheap, or that I can borrow; personally, I prefer ones more like WHFB, such as KoW or, for historical, War & Conquest.

Just read the rules , well skim read , it's like 8th but clearer !!

Just skim read Empire.... HAHA Looks like Mortars , Greatswords, Swordsmen and Crazies are back on the menu boys !!

What V. of 9th Age is this? It seems to change at rather short notice, although it takes a while for the new version to filter down to all players....

I prefer 6th edition for many reasons, so I'm building little warbands, border patrols and 1000 points armies for that edition.

I liked 6th Ed. too, even though I never won a game under it's rule set.

@BaronVonGriffon: Glad to hear it!!