Topic: Berserker blade, Witch hunters and regimental Psychology

[E-DWARF]

I was rereading today the Detachments special rules and looking for different ways to get all of them (and get the most from the rule)

Regimental Psychology: "If a regimental unit has any of the special rules listed below, it confers those special rules onto its detachments whilst they are within 3" of it"

Frenzy: "If a unit that includes one or more Frenzied models is able to declare a charge during the Declare Charges & Charge Reactions sub-phase of its turn, it must do so."

I can equip the Berseker Blade into a Veteran Champion (Count’s champion or a Witch Hunter for the matter) and include it in the unit so, I guess the unit "has" the special rule.

Considering this, are detachments also affected? Weirdly other models in the Regimental unit will not be Frenzied.

Can I apply the same logic to a Witch Hunter with Immune to Psychology special rule joinning a Regimental Unit?

[commandant]

I don't think the unit gets frenzy though only the wielder of the blade.

[Minsc]

I don't think the unit gets frenzy though only the wielder of the blade.

Same, I wouldn't consider "the unit" as frenzied just because one guy in it is frenzied.

[drweir4]

I think it was specifically addressed in the FAQ re the bezerker blade to clarify that the unit does not get frenzy, only the model with the blade

[commandant]

I don't think the unit gets frenzy though only the wielder of the blade.

Same, I wouldn't consider "the unit" as frenzied just because one guy in it is frenzied.

What happens if you give it to a unit champion though? Does the champion, and by virtue the unit, have to charge?

[E-DWARF]

I understand your point of view but I am trying to understand why is so, because I cannot find anything RAW that clearly points in that direction.

According to my reading, in the section MODEL PROFILES, it is pretty clear that the models are the ones that get the rules (subsection "Special rules") and when they join together the unit applies the rules from the models (so the "unit" itself does not have any special rule). This is implied in the section "Unit size" and in the way is written Characters & Formations.

On the other hand, reviewing how is written "Master of Battle" special rule implies that units and character are different entities and units can also get rules. Or it is just a shortcut for "all other models in the unit".

Master of Battle: If this model joins a unit of Empire Knights, Inner Circle Knights or Demigryph Knights, that unit will gain the Immune to Psychology special rule. Should this model leave a unit it has joined for any reason, that unit loses this special rule.

So, IMHO  when we are adding more models to a unit, they add their rules to the unit (when we are creating the army list, they are actually copies of the same special rules except for characters). That's why we also get some special rules written "all models in the unit" or "majority of models in the unit".

IMHO and I guess RAW a unit has a rule when any of the models has the rule. Therefore, a model with Frenzy, Hatred (X), Immune to Psychology or Stubborn joining a regimental unit with dettachments should confer those special rules onto its detachments whilst they are within 3" of it

Also RAW, although the Witch Hunter's Immune to Psychology is not extended to the other regimental unit's models, when we check the "majority of the models" condition is not fullfilled and the unit ignores "automatically passes any Fear, Panic or Terror tests" and also can flee as a charge reaction. However the unit still has the special rule.

So, in one scenario, if a character is a separate entity when joins a unit (as implied by Master of Battle), then we can only provide the magic items (and the sweet additional special rules) to a champion or standard bearer to add the rules to the Regimental Units and then extend it to the dettachments using the Dettachment special rules.

In the other scenario, if a character becomes part of the unit when joins it, his special rules are added to the unit special rules (although they may not be applicable because of the "majority of the models" restrictions).

I also checked the FAQ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/ScGm8K4WG9pa9sGv.pdf ) and the change to the weapon only says:
Page 339 – Berserker Blade
Add the following note to the weapon profile:
‘Notes: The wielder of the Berserker Blade is Frenzied.
So it still gets the Frenzy rule.

[Dazgrim]

I think you're straining the bounds of credulity with that line of reasoning.
If you gave a unit champion the Berserker Blade, the champion would have Frenzy, the unit would not.

[commandant]

I just wonder if the unit would have to charge because the champion had to charge?

[Skyros]

From the FAQ

Page 339 – Berserker Blade
Add the following note to the weapon profile:
‘Notes: The wielder of the Berserker Blade is Frenzied

They did this specifically because beastmen were using it as a way to easily give frenzy to minotaurs in a way that wasn't intended or balanced. So they changed it to make it clear it ONLY affects the wielder, not the unit as a whole.

[Clymer]

Yes, the unit champion would have to charge, and the unit would, of course, have to go with him. He is their sergeant after all. But only the bearer of the berserker blades would get the extra attack.

[Sir Falo]

Why would the regiment have to charge if the champion have frenzy? In stupidity it is mentions that it is contentious to the regiment, is there something similar with frenzy.

[commandant]

Because the champion can't charge out of the unit. Therefore either the entire unit charges or the champion does not charge

[PowerSeries]

Frenzy does say "if at least one model in the unit", not if more than half or anything.  One dude who wants to charge is enough to drag everyone with him.