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Author Topic: Reiters  (Read 20801 times)

Offline MagicJuggler

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Reiters
« on: May 13, 2009, 12:00:15 AM »
Hello. As part of my beliefs, in order for Empire to better conform to the way new armybooks are being structured, I would like to see the Imperial fast cavalry option as a core choice and their Knights as a special choice. But what is there to do about these units? I propose the following statline; this is a catchall supposed to represent everything from members of the Pistolkorps, to freelancer mercenaries and bandits.

Reiter: WS 3, BS 3, S 3, T 3, W 1, I 3, Ld 7, Sv 5+, A 1.
Outrider: WS 3, BS 4, S 3, T 3, W 1, I 3, Ld 8, Sv 5+, A 1
Freelancer: WS 4, BS 3, S 3, T 3, W 1, I 3, Ld 8, Sv 5+, A 2
Equipment: Horse, Light Armor
Points cost: 13-model. The unit must contain a minimum of 5 models.
Options: One model may be upgraded to a Musician for 7 points. The unit may replace a Reiter with either an Outrider or Freelancer (but not both) for +7 points. The unit may take either crossbows at 3 pts a model, pistols at 3 points a model, or a brace at 5 points a model; if the unit has an Outrider, it MUST take a brace of pistols and cannot take any more weapon upgrades. A unit that does not take a brace of pistols, or crossbows, may take shields at 1 pt a model. The unit may take heavy armor at 2 points a model at which point it ceases to be fast cavalry. The unit may take spears at 1 pt a model lances at 2 pts a model.
An Outrider may replace one or both of its pistols with Repeater Pistols at +5 points each.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 12:39:26 AM »
I like horse for 8 points
rider for 3 points with a basic profile and a hand weapon with a build as you like series of extra options for building anything from griffon riders to balkan stradiots.

12 points basic with no fast cav special training
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Offline Michael W

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 01:54:55 AM »
I like it mostly; criticism would be that maybe Crossbows should be only 2 pts/model, since they're so incompatible with Fast Cavalry in principle.  The other thing is that with a shield, the unit becomes fast cavalry with a 4+ save.  Perhaps shields should also render the unit not Fast Cavalry (but they could be free instead!).
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 01:55:43 AM »
Even elves don't have fast cav with shields. Following general principles, that must be implemented...
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 02:12:19 AM »
Chaos Dwarfs have Hobgoblins who can have Wolves and Shields and still count as fast cav...I know that's a bad analogy but meh. Maybe make it so if shields or heavy armor is chosen?

Offline Warlord

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 03:39:00 AM »
Even elves don't have fast cav with shields. Following general principles, that must be implemented...

I thought Dark Riders could still take shields and retain the fast cavalry rule.

And Dogs of War Light cavalry can take shields and be fast cavalry.

I am opposed however to the idea of moving knights to special. Knightly Orders are integral to the Empire.
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 04:15:25 AM »
Rationalize it like this: Even knightly orders need their mounted sergeants, and squires in order to assist them. Pure-knight armies are just plain silly. Additionally, the armybook as current states that many Knights will pay Outriders to serve as drill instructors for young nobles, who by learning to fight as pistoliers, will become accustomed to battle that they may be deemed worthy of joining the Order.

Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 04:21:10 AM »
Warlord- nope. I concede on the DoW, but they aren't exactly a recent army.
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 05:43:37 AM »
Knights could be special, if we get core demilancers to replace them. Essentially the same but with Heavy/light armour instead of full plate.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 05:50:30 AM »
Core nilla knights that are even cheaper...I am all for it.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 10:37:21 AM »
I think Knights could stay core, but be capped at how many units in 2k can be taken.

All knight units are indeed silly, but then again I am currently wondering why anyone would even take foot troops...
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »
Knights could be special, if we get core demilancers to replace them. Essentially the same but with Heavy/light armour instead of full plate.

Again, that was the intent of this suggestion, and why heavy armor is an upgrade option for Reiters...

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2009, 07:59:13 PM »
Sorry to double post but there's something else I'm interested in seeing:

Cavalry carbines. Basically a "halfway" step between pistols and handguns. Make them range 16, move and fire, S4 AP, but they don't get the bonuses of a pistol. Plus they could represent particuarly skilled cavalry archers...does this sound plausible?

Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2009, 08:28:30 PM »
I've one problem.

Carbines are breech loaders.

Handguns, pistols, repeaters... all are muzzle loaders. Breechloading technology was a rather late invention by gunpowder standards. 1862 I think. During the Civil War at any rate.
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Offline RoX

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 12:23:10 PM »
I've one problem.

Carbines are breech loaders.

Handguns, pistols, repeaters... all are muzzle loaders. Breechloading technology was a rather late invention by gunpowder standards. 1862 I think. During the Civil War at any rate.

Fraid not ,breech-loading weapons were developed as far back as the late 14th century .First 'full ' use of breech loaders was  the ferguson rifle in 1772



Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 08:33:26 PM »
Late 14th century?!

No... no they weren't. Carbines were defintely during the Civil War, though I'm not quite sure when effective breechloading technology was developed, it was definitely not in the 14th century.

EDIT: After checking, it was indeed the ferguson rifle. All the same, my point stands.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 08:52:44 PM by t12161991 »
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Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2009, 12:39:12 PM »
How about calling it a cavalry gun or a dragonne instead?

Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2009, 01:57:33 PM »
It's the function I'm concerned with, not the name   :closed-eyes:
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2009, 04:58:40 PM »
It's the function I'm concerned with, not the name   :closed-eyes:

You'd rather they didn't use it to shoot opponents ?
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2009, 07:24:00 PM »
They could shoot each other...

Rather the fact that at the core they are *still* carbines. Doesn't fit with the period Empire is based off of (yes I realize it is fantasy and all, but all the same...).
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 08:35:57 AM »
They could shoot each other...

Rather the fact that at the core they are *still* carbines. Doesn't fit with the period Empire is based off of (yes I realize it is fantasy and all, but all the same...).

And assault rifles repeating handguns do?
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 02:34:55 PM »
No.

Hence the fantasy remark.

More, I think that no gunpowder weapon (excluding pistols) should be move-and-fire.
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 02:58:37 PM »
Thats fair enough I think

If it were my ideal world, outriders would lose repeating handguns and only get handguns at best (possibly carbines for a 16" range)
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 05:14:50 PM »
They have to have some downside.
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

Hail! to the victors valiant
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Hail! Hail! to Michigan
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Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Reiters
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 10:30:16 AM »
They have to have some downside.

Totally agree, but not being able to move and fire doesnt quite detract from the assualt rifle armed outriders...

Like I said, my ideal world is ditch repeater handguns, give them handguns or carbines that have move or fire
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg