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Author Topic: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax  (Read 12691 times)

Offline zifnab0

  • Posts: 2162
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2012, 11:47:41 AM »
I'm quite surprised we were able to pull out the win.  Good work team green!

And thanks again HHG for all of your hard work.  I think in the future you should let the team 'generals' take some of the effort.  Have them conduct the voting threads and report the results to you.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10157
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2012, 12:43:16 PM »
I am a bit worried about winning as i personally tend to learn more when losing.  Will check about standards and you might be correct if so i learned another thing

Offline Windelov

  • Posts: 472
Sv: Re: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2012, 01:51:15 PM »
Another thing team blue should have 125 more vic points as bsb and ick standards were recaptured by the tgm...i think the points for standards are only granted when the enemy holdsthem in his claws at the end of the game...green still wins ...but by a pubic hairs width

Also, vanilla knights should not have fleed as we won combat, thats 110 points. on the other hand, im unsure if the bsb counts as recaptured when it was killed by magic and therefor not seized.

Sendt fra min GT-I9000 med Tapatalk2

Vanilla Knights never died so those points were never in question.  Note, they are still on the "end of game" graph.

well i got that wrong, i read fled as fleing.

  For the banner incl. battle banner, it only counts towards vp if seized = bearer killed in cc or by breaking from combat.
S
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:03:13 PM by Windelov »

Offline Friar Metick

  • Posts: 99
  • Talks with hammer!
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2012, 02:20:08 PM »
:eusa_clap: Well done everyone. Special thanks to HHG you need to take a well deserved break. Your patience was put to a big test.  :-D Dreadlord was an awesome opponent, he really caught us out several times and his dice rolls were killers. :-o Team Green, great job thanks for listening and valuing different opinions on strategy. Not listening to me at the right times was our best move. :icon_lol: Team Blue, you guys did a great job and good communication was a key to your success.
For me I think I met my goals of seeing a double stank list work, seeing how the lore of Beasts and Heavens affected our games since I don't usually use them with an empire list. I would say this TDG solidified my belief that Empire cavalry are a must in every competitive list we can muster. They are the 1+ core and special troops we can bring in my humble opinion. Combine them with our war machines and we have the ability to hit hard from afar, charge fast and hit hard when we have to with the cav, and out maneuver most armies we go up against. Our opponents have tough decisions to make - sit back and get hammered, or move up and get hit hard with a cav charge or out manuevered with small units of nilla knights and demigryphs. I like what we can bring to the table.
Congrats again to everyone and thanks HHG and Dreadlord for doing this. Let's go have a beer now. :::cheers:::
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline Eighty

  • Posts: 1038
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2012, 06:16:24 PM »
what a nail biter! when that tank went down to 11 (eleven  :eusa_sick: ) wounds i thought that game was a goner!

I cant help but wonder if Darklord had accepted the final challenge with his general - what would of happened then!

gg everyone, cant wait to see the next one HHG (but take a break eh you deserve it  :::cheers::: )
Trumpets sound around me, the wind blowing through my hair, as fellow gamers look in awe at my Army, secretly wishing they chose empire instead of their stupid rats

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2012, 07:57:31 PM »
A couple of other people I want to thank-  Fandir, Noght and Zif.  Those three were a huge help to me in between the decisions the forum made.  They are a key part of your victories because they kept you on track, pinged me on the rules, and made this all possible.  So, thanks again you three for your support.   :::cheers:::

--------------------------------------------------------

So, lessons learned, after action and all that.

I have some of my own thoughts but I am going to wait to post em. 

What I would like you to comment on-

What was one key thing you learned?

What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?



------------------------------------------------

To start us off, I asked Dreadlord to answer the above questions and give a little feedback and what his strategy and thinking were as the battle went along for your insight.


From the Dreadlord-

Against Team Blue, I really didn’t like the idea of facing the double tanks.  When I saw you were going to run them on the hill near the circle as a defense against my Searing Doom, I decided to place my Execs over there to cause havoc.  I planned to camp the ruins and hoped the Execs would keep you occupied and out of the center.  I knew I couldn’t lose my Warrior horde-  too many points tied up into it.

Things were going well, until you decided to ignore my Execs and make a dash to the center.  I couldn’t bring them back to the center quick enough.

My one crucial mistake was moving the Warriors up close to the ICK so the TGM was in range of Fate of Bunja.  I used all my PD up on other things and never even tried to cast the spell that turn….  The net result-  my Warriors were overextended.  Once you tied up the horde I couldn’t use Searing Doom anymore and your mobility got to me. 

Against Team Green, I underestimated the devastation of the Helblasters.  Again, I wanted to camp the ruins and thought the range and cover from the ruins would keep the Blasters less effective.  My plan was to Spirit Leech them at range.  My Power Dice got tied up in other things and I never really put a dent in them.

Despite my magic advantage, your ranged firepower and Comets really tore me up.  If we had a replay, I would pay more respect to them.

I either need to beef up my Lvl 4 bunker or play it more conservative in moving it.  In both games I lost its protection.  Having to move the Lvl 4 over to the horde hampered my options.

What did I learn?  Hmm.  I play HHG’s Empire all the time and already had a healthy respect for armour saves.  I am sure you noticed my anti-armor capability.  I learned that taking out Helblasters are a top priority.  I also learned that I need to be  more patient.  I think in both games I got a little cocky and over-extended and it cost me.

One thing I would have done different?  In both games, I avoided the early easy mega-nukes and used Rust and other spells instead, thinking I would have time for the nukes later.  I never had a chance in the later rounds to cast a boosted Searing Doom to whip out a significant amount of your combat power.  In the future, I think I will kill juicy targets early so I won’t get caught in later rounds.  Magic is great, but when your army depends on it, you have to get your licks in early.

What would I do again in the future?  I used to run a big block of Corsairs and switched to the Spears with the Dreadlord and the Exec Axe with the ASF banner.  I liked what it did and will probably mess around with it in the future.

Which Empire list would do better in a Tournament?  I think Blue’s list is an all-around solid list and will win most scenarios.  The Green will do better in some and worse in others.  If your opponent can stay out of the Helblaster’s range, he will be taking away a big portion of your combat power.

Overall I had a blast.  I was honored to face off against you and you put up one hell of a fight.  Your new Empire book has given you lots of toys and options.  Even though I lose a lot to HHG, I like the fact that his lists have less ranged than they used to and he has no issues with throwing down with me in CC.  Makes for lots of fun battles. 

 :::cheers:::
Dreadlord
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Noght

  • Posts: 3187
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2012, 08:00:34 PM »
Kudos to Dreadlord.   :eusa_clap:

I want his dice right now!
"...the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything..."  Camus.

Offline George

  • Posts: 814
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2012, 09:06:32 PM »
Thanks HHG....and Dreadlord

I really enjoy doing these.

I learnt to focus on the right units. I would have likely chased the execs, or at least committed units near them and not ended up with enough combined power when it was needed in the middle.

I like how team blue worked, our communication was good and people's thoughts were taken on board. The only decision I would really change in the game is grapeshotting the shades instead of hiding from them. We still lost the cannons and never really threatened them.

One thing I would do again my own games is to try take out targets of opportunity...i.e. sending all firepower at the metal mage's bunker. Sometimes people seem to always get lucky, but in reality you have to make your own luck and take the oppotunities presented.

I think team blue's list would fair better in a tournament....except down here in aus with our soft comp setup it would likely be rejected and need to be resubmitted.
My Armies:
Empire
Ogres

Offline grifter

  • Posts: 283
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2012, 10:43:42 PM »
First of all, thanks to HHG for organizing this shindig, thanks to the Dreadlord for being a fearsome opponent, thanks to the team captains for their leaderhsip, and thanks to everyone for participating! What a fun and exciting battle(s)!

What was one key thing you learned?

I learned so many rules minutiae, it´s not even funny! My main lesson is probably to take the time to look up certain rules before assuming they work a certain way.

Tactically, the DD management and the minutiae of challenges/make way have been the most fascinating (also the part I was the most quiet during, noncoincidentally  :smile2: ).

Strategically, I think the main lesson is to not eff around. I think the Dreadlord didn´t go for our throat decisively enough and it cost him in the end, as he (kinda) pointed out himself, while we pretty much stuck to our plan from beginning to end and I think it helped us weather some, at times, staggering dice rolling.

What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

The lone Demigryph charging the Execs instead of the (former) Spear-Bunker is my personal grievance and I wish I would have posted in time to prevent it.
Also, the Reiksguard should have probably not overrun towards the middle after killing the Dark Riders...I think we got a bit cocky there and didn´t think the Hydra would win it´s combat against the Demigryphs to (literally) bite us in the behind, and it put us in an awkward position for the endgame.

What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?
I think 2 HBVG+Technician, STank, LVL4 Heavens Mage is pretty much the strongest backbone an Empire army can have right now, fill out the rest of the army as you wish. Harmonic Convergence and Meteor just synergize so very well with the HBVG and STank, it´s hard to imagine not running this combo in serious play.

It´s also nice to see Vanilla Knights still working as well as they did here; should have definitely included some in my list proposal!

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

I think the Green list would do better because of the HBVG+Heavens combo. I´d try to squeeze in a second STank though, removing 1 Vanilla Knights + 1 Demigryphs.

I´m still very suspect on the Lore of Beasts, and the lack of HBVG in the Blue list keeps it from taking top spot. Also not sold on the TGM with Runefang, I just think those points could be better spent in other areas.

Again, thanks to everyone, expecially HHG! Looking forward to the next one, though I can absolutely understand your need for a break.  :biggriin:

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10157
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2012, 10:51:59 AM »
What was one key thing you learned?
Make a plan...and stick to it and don´t be afraid of the enemy when you make that plan.At the beginning of the game there was little focus on what was the plan killing the witch....ok with the stanks on the hill...ok. But there weren´t really plans what to do with the Reiksguard or the ICK or our chaff units this resulted in the Reiksguard riding around a bit and collecting flowers while the battle raged on. We should have planned what would be the perfect match for each of our units, what we think the dreadlords targets will be and how we can spoil his plans with ours. So we ended up not using our list to the full potential.

That said there are lots of minor things I learned not only rules stuff like...the stank can waddle through terrain without issues as long as he is not charging would have helped getting on that hill. Banners always count once you get them in combat. Once more being impressed by the BSB Captasus. Magic....magic is great but no game winner and can put a lot of pressure on yourself if you rely too much on it to win the game.

What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

From turn one ride hard with the reiksguard and the icknights to get into contact with the metal witch or at least use the reiksguard in a different manner also I think beast magic wasn´t really that fantastic until the very last two turns...where it turned the game but the comets of team green really did this in a more reliable less dangerous to ones own kind of way. Well Wyssans is great but the mage should be on something flying or faster to keep up with the rest of the army he was too slow as we played him.

What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?
Blue
The good placement of characters, always always always pregame start check where his characters are in his units and figure out what matchups you want for your guys and if there are ways to make use of the make way rule. Also using the mobility of fast units to change the location and leave elite units of the enemy stranded with little use.
Green
Damn...those hellblasters rocked I am considering in comp heavy environments to go with a single stank and double blasters one cannon on top and you have one scary shooting phase. Overall the game of team green looked like there was fighting all over the place all the time.


Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?I think in an all comers Blue would do better especially with another lore of magic. That said I think Dreadlord would have ripped us a new one if we would not have known all the magical items.....the TGM with the runefang would have gone for the spear horde,.....and would have ended up as minced meat after the I8 executioners axe have sliced and diced him.


Offline zakalwe

  • Posts: 227
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2012, 12:09:17 PM »
First off, a big thankyou to HHG for running another awesome TDG.
Big thanks and respect to dreadlord for being a wonderful opponent and putting us through our paces. It was a very interesting army to see and that dreadlord/bsb combo was scary to behold. Would it not also be scarier in an executioner horde? or too many eggs in one basket.


What was one key thing you learned?

Hmm, tricky. NEVER to underestimate a DE magic phase. Even a double 1 winds allowed the DE 4 spell attempts!

What was the one thing you would have done differently in your team?

Turn 2 i would have moved the Stank up to get it into a position to be a threat. Though the cannon shots are a good way of hydra killing, i think being able to charge the DE lines reliably in T3 would have been useful.

What did you see that you like, that would do again in the future?

twin HBVG and basic engineers in team green, though i like to give them pistols at least normally. I know points were tight.
More demigryph knights, i only have 3 myself and they are great, enjoy seeing them in larger numbers.

With team blue, i liked the idea of a beasts buffed TGM though he didn't get a great time to shine, i look forward to seeing how it does in the future. Also the captasus bsb, again i liked it and look forward to seeing how it works in other games.

Which list would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

Hmm tough, Blue has more robustness in the twin Stanks and the archer mage bunkers are more mobile, though a little more fragile. The 3 cannons are good for counter battery fire. I think it would do very well in most games.

I like the green list for reasons stated, but the HBVG's are vulnerable to long range counter battery fire or ambushers/scouts. Loosing both HBVG early would be a massive blow.

For this reason i think blue would do better against a varied range of opponents and be more competitive.



Offline Wojownik

  • Posts: 47
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2012, 02:01:10 PM »
BIG thanks to HHG for all effort  :eusa_clap:. Hope you didn't get tiered and next TDG will be soon.  :::cheers:::
Sir, next time I'm in the pub, I'll drink my whiskey in honor of you.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2012, 10:41:47 PM »
I decided to go through every thread of the TDG to comment on things that I learned, new insights/tactics I found, or rules that were clarified for me (or remain uncertain).

Rules

--Tanks do not take Dangerous Terrain tests just rolling around.
--Tanks DO take Dangerous Terrain tests if they end up charging with their Random Move.
--Tanks have to stay 1” away from all impassable terrain and units unless they can get a charge off, then they revert to the rules for charging and can “cut corners” to get a charge off like other units.
--No Terror checks from Random Movers.  Sorry STank-  no one is going to run from you!
--Movement backwards on units with odd M rates have an advantage of rounding up.  For instance, I always moved units with 5 Move 2.5 inches instead of the full 3 inches they rate.
--Units get only a 90 degree free turn when they declare a charge.  Normally it doesn’t come into play, but it is worth keeping in mind when multiple charge/flee angles are weird.
--Casualties are taken off evenly from the front row when it is the last row remaining.


New Insights (of mine…maybe you knew them already!)

--I saw that the forum used spells like Iceshard Blizzard and Curse of Anheir quite a bit to get the -1 to hit modifier against the bad guys.  I like the tactic and will probably use it more in the future.
--Most other players play it safer in the magic phase than I normally do.  If I want a spell to go off, I am not afraid to toss dice at it.  I do gets lots of IF and Miscasts…but usually I am pretty lucky with rolling on the table.  I might try a few different things in the future to see if it works out for me.
--I like Heavens more than Beasts.  Savage Horrors is great if it goes off, but I think Heavens gives you a lot more flexibility, especially early on.
--Dual Helblaster or dual STanks are just plain nasty.  Not for friendly games. 
--The Steam Gun on the tank can be used in unique ways against infantry.  I usually think of the grind and the cannon when maneuvering it, but a well-placed steam blast can really kill some models.


Strategic or Tactical Thoughts

--This TDG just reinforced my belief that strength in arms and steel is greater than strength in magic.  You might be able to take away an armour point or two…but in the end game close combat strength is always reliable and will not be as fickle as a Winds of Magic roll or a misfire result on a Warmachine.  Of course there is always the Break test, but Empire has ways of putting these rolls into our favor.
--Placement of characters, especially when you and the opponent have a bunch of them, is a key aspect of the game that I really need to increase my skill in.  I learned quite a few little tricks in this TDG that I am going to use in my own games.
--The Engineer behind the Executioners to run them down (in Game Green) was a master move.  I plan to keep that in mind for future games. 
--One of the things I like about the new 8th Edition rules is the combat reform.  I learned in this TDG that hitting a unit in the flank also really screws with their ability to adapt to combat situations because they can’t reform.  This really hurt the Dark Elves in both games.  When Empire’s mobility and extra units on the battlefield came into play late in the games it killed Dreadlord’s advantage in CC with his buffed troops.


TDG Thoughts

--How to use blockers/diverters is one of the most debated options.  Some people are willing to let the enemy get into long range charges (10+) while others feel less comfortable.  Some are more willing to sacrifice units than others.  Very interesting dynamic.  I lean towards the conservative camp and don’t like allowing my opponents any chance of ruining my plan with a crazy lucky charge roll.  I think it comes down to play style.

--The next most debated topic is how to use Power Dice.  Lots of different ways to play it…one of the reasons I think I like the 8th Edition system.   

--Multiple minds are better than one.  It amazed me time and time again throughout the TDG on what the forum could do when debating the options and coming up with the best one.  Of course, there is also a benefit of having the time to study the problem hard and make sure nothing is missed (especially when someone could crank out the Mathhammer to find the best probabilities of success). 
      I think the best Generals can do this quickly in a real game.  I need to practice on this.  I find myself making simple mistakes in games that I would never make if I had seen all the variables correctly.  One of my thoughts is to try some Speed-hammer with friends.  Kind of like speed chess-  you have to make your moves and choices quickly (maybe in some kind of time limit…).  I think this might help out in decision-making when the game is slowed down to normal speed.

-----------------------------------------------

Make sure you post your thoughts!  Either answering the questions I posed or tossing out lessons learned like I did.  This is one of the most important parts of the TDG, IMHO.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline MrAbyssal

  • Posts: 1058
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2012, 11:29:35 PM »
Thanks again HHG. It's been a great experience. I mainly focussed on Team Blue so I may have to go back and read through Team Green. Has Dreadlord gone through the TDG thread since the game has finished to get any insight on how we made our decisions?

It's been great seeing how the other forum members on here play. Unfortunately I wasn't able to contribute as much as I probably could in this one though I think most of the people in Team Blue came to similar decisions anyway so we didn't have to debate too much, more just refine. I think our biggest mistake was in the early turns with the Reiksguard as we completely forgot the original intention to move them towards the centre. On the upside they ended up in prime position to save our bacon and take the Executioners out before they could join combat the big combat on the last turn. I think without that it probably would have swung to Dreadlord.
There are three things each man judges another man by;

1. The size of his codpiece
2. The amount of skulls he carries
3. The length of his feather

Offline Friar Metick

  • Posts: 99
  • Talks with hammer!
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2012, 02:29:00 AM »
What was one key thing you learned?

One of the things that I learned that I will take away from the TDG was that the WP's can keep casting prayers even if they fail to get one of them off. I have been playing it wrong since the new book came out. Not anymore.

What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

One thing I would have done different based on the way I play the game was to focus on taking out units. What I mean is when I choose to get rid of an enemy unit, I will focus my magic/fire power on it to take it out or set it up to take it out with a charge on my next turn. During the course of the game I felt like we didn't totally commit to taking out the small units or cleaning up the loose ends when we had the chance. By turn four Dreadlord had a lot of partial units on the table so we had very little in the way of victory points at that point. To our credit we did clean them up but a couple of bad dice rolls and it could have been very different.

What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?

I did like the way Heavens worked for team green. I would like to use it a few times with my army and see how I feel about using it in a tournament.

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

In our area the green list would not qualify for most tournaments with luthor Huss in it. If he was replaced with a WP I would not hesitate to use the list. While I think the blue team list would be effective it too would not qualify with the comp with two stanks. Replace one with a HVG and engineer along with some other upgrades with the extra points left over and I would use the blue list too. Out of the two I think the green list would do better in a tournament. A lot of players would go after the archers/wizard unit in the blue list and try to wipe it out quick. For me that is too much risk to take with my wizard, not enough protection.

I have noticed as more 8th ed. army books come out we are seeing the trend of special/named characters not being broken which has changed the comp some TO's are using. So in the future the luthor Huss list may be on the table at a tournament.  :-)

Again much thanks to my teammates, HHG, and dreadlord for an awesome experience.  :biggriin:  :eusa_clap:  :::cheers:::
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline zifnab0

  • Posts: 2162
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2012, 12:28:03 PM »
What was one key thing you learned?

Saving combat for later rounds.  Most of my games tend towards combat early with the combats drawing out for several turns.  We set up some devastating combo-charges that really turned the course of the game.

Somehow I never see these during my normal games.


What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

I think it was on turn 3 or 4 where we broke our "trap" for the spearmen horde.  I think we could have won eaerlier if we had maintained that trap.

What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?

I liked playing against another opponent and having team "Generals" command the army.

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

I think Blue, because the dual steam tank is pretty devastating.

Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2012, 01:08:28 PM »
What was one key thing you learned?

No matter how bad a matchup is and no matter how bad you roll your dice you can still win the game if you make enough decisisons right. I'm still in disbelief that we managed to win this game, and even more so that both teams did. had Dreadlord been a little more aggressive with his magic this game could have been over in Turn 3. 2-3 boosted Searing Dooms would have made short work of our STanks.


What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

As some of my team mates have pointed out, we really chickened out with the Reiksguard. As it turned out it worked quite well but that mistake could have costed us dearly.


What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?

I have to say lore of heavens impressed me. I've used it before but not on a lvl 4. Will definatly give a lvl 4 a go in my next game. Also dual STanks. Must buy myself another one.

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

I've never played in a tournament so my opinion here is moot. Personally I'd rather play the green list. Love me some Helblasters.

Offline mottdon

  • Posts: 2366
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2012, 04:17:06 PM »
First off, thank you so much for all of your hard work on this TDG, HHG!  I was so excited, I got several raised eyebrows form my wife!  Please take time off and rest up your fingers while practicing your dice throwing!  :icon_smile:  Whenever you want to do this again, you can count me in!

What was one key thing you learned?

Pre-game positioning is crutial.  Okay, so I already knew this, but this game was a prime example of why this is so important.  I also learned much from the Stanks ability to move through a forrest.  I've never had to face that circumstance before but now I feel as though I will be fully prepared for it should it come up in a future game.

What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?

Get the Reiksguard in the game earlier.  Their positioning took them out of the game.  Sure they came through in the 9th hour, but they should have had a much greater inpact than they did.  Also, our knights 2 unit didn't do what they were intended.  They were mostly chasing after ghosts the whole game.  By taking out the harpies, they could have allowed our Stank to get into combat  earlier, saving so many attacks from coming at the ICKs.  While I wasen't overly pleased with the Lore of Beasts preformance, considering how dominant the DE should have been, I thought we managed to get enough spells through that caused some havoc.  I would still probably pick a different Lore in the future.  Oh- and change dice!
 
What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?

The bunker seemed to be an appropriate size considering how many we had left at the end of the game.  I liked running dual Stanks.  They were such a huge threat (both in and out of combat, something a HBVG can't boast) that they diverted much attention from our other units.

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?

I would be more comfortable running Team Blue's roster in a tournament.  I feel as though it has more flexibility for various armies.  Both are good lists and would definitely be successful, but for my play style the Blue list would be the way to go.  It has been proven to ride a wave of luck, good for enemy, bad for us, and still come out on top even against a team specifically geared to cause us the most problems.


Offline Harshey

  • Posts: 161
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2012, 06:09:17 PM »
1. This was great. Lots of rules clarifications which was nice to see for everybody's knowledge in a practical application. Hopefully some of the rules will stick better

2. I never played the comet getting the same damage to all units, but this is a good clarification, and faster too.

3. Dark elves' magic phase is brutal, and we got off super easy. If dreadlord had more of the damage spells both teams could have been crushed by turn two.

4. 1+ armour is the greatest! But too much of a good thing can be bad.  I do think that both lists were missing a block of troops that would have been great for the ranks they can provide. Plus, if our opponent has tools that can deal with armour quickly, it is good to have some units that are less prone to those attacks.

5. Looking back at our opponent's list, for team green, since we had enough chaff between the knights and the demigryphs (I use them more as chaff), we should have deployed our HBVGs dead center to open up their firing range more. These could have been used to keep the hydra in check, which was a problem for our army (and almost everybody's). Then we could have thrown our large knight buses out on the flanks to keep them out of range of spells for the first turn and then had them ride hard up the flanks. But our game went well...

6. You can't count on the comet, but what you can do is pin a unit into combat and drop one nearby. What did our comet have, six tokens at the end?  There was that one turn when dreadlord turned his units around to reengage our center. If he had run away to the corner with everything, I think he would have won.

7. The stank is great, two is better, but how much? I'd I was going to pick one of these lists, I'd probably take green's, but I'd drop a HBVG and a few points elsewhere to get a block of troops (doesn't matter which ones really). As others said, close combat is how you win this game so green has too many points in war machines, and two Stanks for blue is two units that can't run down enemy units (big downside of the stank)

8. Thanks HHG for running with this. I thought it was great! Now my question is, what should we do next?

Offline Windelov

  • Posts: 472
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2012, 07:17:21 PM »
What was one key thing you learned?
Everything in its time - I rarely give much attention to the fact that you only play for 6 rounds. The TDG provides a paused form of play that encourages you to do so. I think we would have lost the game, had we not carefully considered that the end result matters more than staying ahead. 


What was the one thing you would have done different in your team?
Moved our Steamy1 up to fry the executioners when at 6 Steam points, and in the same turn move in the Reiksguard for the big spear unit.


What did you see that you liked that would do again in the future (from either team)?
Going to use comet some more, it has great destructive capability, but even a greater effect in disrupting your enemy's plans.   

Which list do you think would do better in a tournament, Green or Blue?
Blue for all-around, as the green 24" killing zone might just simply be avoided by some armies. Blue would suffer from armour negating armies, like the skaven list just posted by Lord Solar Plexus.

Again, thx HHG for this great experience :::cheers:::

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 2320
  • Never leave the Province without it...
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2012, 09:30:59 PM »
I figured at least Noght and Zif would get a kick out of this pic.  These are the blood-red "killer dice."





And you think I would have learned my lesson....but no.  I let my friend use them against my Empire in our Escalation league yesterday.  What was I thinking?
 :eusa_wall:

His Black Knights charged my thick ICK block, picked up Speed of Light by touching the magical waters of a River of Light, and produced to not only break them and catch them, but Overrun into my STank.  All it took was two close combat rounds for his tricked out Vampire Lord to kill the steel behemoth.  Giving him time to turn back to the center, hit my Greatswords (fighting for their lives) in the rear and grind them into a bloody mess.
(I am glad I was not taking pictures and notes to do a battle report...it would have been embarassing!)

Unless I pick up a Warriors of Chaos army or something, those dice are officially retired.   :unsure:
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Ads

  • Posts: 88
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2012, 10:54:19 PM »
I think you should just not let your opponent use them HHG

Offline zifnab0

  • Posts: 2162
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2012, 12:54:16 AM »
I figured at least Noght and Zif would get a kick out of this pic.  These are the blood-red "killer dice."




I think next time you should use the same set of dice for both players.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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  • Posts: 2320
  • Never leave the Province without it...
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2012, 09:42:36 AM »
I think you should just not let your opponent use them HHG

He is a new player building his forces and supplies.  Although next time he will get a different set of dice...especially now that we are in the semi-finals in the Escalation League and I may have to play the Vamps again in the finals if he beats O&G!

I think next time you should use the same set of dice for both players.

That is a thought....but to me-  dice are like models.  I have different sets that go with different themes and armies.  I will always use my Empire dice for our Empire rolls.  We haven't "lost" yet so they haven't let us down so far! 

The blood red I usually use for  bad guys.  For instance, I used them for Bruiser and they didn't seem that deadly in the first TDG.  Regardless, I promise they are retired from TDG-play.  I think I will use my blue-gold for the next TDG...unless we fight Lizzies or O&G and then the greenies have to come out.   :icon_cool:

Start thinking about what you want to face next.  I will solicit input here in a few days when our after action dies down,
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Windelov

  • Posts: 472
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.7: The Climax
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2012, 12:09:13 PM »
Start thinking about what you want to face next.  I will solicit input here in a few days when our after action dies down,

Skavens would make an interesting opponent :dry:
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 12:24:27 PM by Windelov »