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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: KTG17 on May 10, 2019, 07:22:07 PM

Title: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 10, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
Hi everyone, new to the site. I literally stumbled on it for the first time today searching for Warhammer terrain and was led to the thread of people showing off their work and was blown away.

So this is going to be a long post but I thought I would share what I am doing and where I am at, because while I have been aware of WFB for a long time (long 40k fan), I never got into it and only started buying stuff for it when GW killed Warhammer and moved on to Sigmar. I actually have lost interest in 40k too. I am just not thrilled with what direction GW is taking these days, so I guess I am reaching back into the past and are amazed at what I missed.

I started by picking up mint copies of the 6th Edition, 7th Edition Battle for Skull Pass, and 8th Edition Island of Blood starter sets. I really didn't know any difference between the versions of the rules, and I am a sucker for starter sets, so I hunted those down and thought I would mess around with them until I figured out which I liked. I don't have many friends who play these games, let alone collect, so typically if I can get one to play I have to provide everything. So I would base what I would collect around the starter armies from these sets.

Well, it didn't take me long before I was blown away by 6th Edition, and how comprehensive the rulebook was (with Skirmish, Siege, etc). I had a variety of ways to play with the same miniatures! I also picked up Mordhiem (which I had previously but never did anything with and foolishly got rid of), and fell in love with the era even more. With the Best of Town Cyrer, I now had rules for warbands for all the armies from Warhammer Fantasy, so even more to explore. I picked up the General's Compendium as well and an annual or two. Its obvious there was a lot of love for 6th Edition at the time just for the sheer amount of stuff GW released for it. The editions after do not look like they got the same love and attention as 6th did. Maybe nicer models though.

But what really did it for me with 6th is Ravening Hordes. I didn't even know it existed until after I got all the starter sets, and when I found I had rules for just about every mini I now had, it kind of sealed things for me. I really didn't want to hunt down all of the army books (especially for each edition), or worry about power creep, and most importantly, complicated rules for the few times I play a game with a friend and I keep having to go back and refer to special rules. So this also means, if it isn't in Ravening Hordes, I don't buy it or plan on playing it. (with once exception below)

So sticking with the starter armies in those sets, and adding a wizard, extra character or unit here an there, I had six armies with each about 700 points. I was told by some veterans those armies were simply too small for WFB, but I explained that I wanted variety and to expand on the number of armies rather than put all my money into a few armies. I wasn't thrilled about painting up 20 Empire Spearmen if I could just do 10. I could give 10 my best but 20 would involve me cutting corners. But I also started looking at the old Battalion sets on Ebay and before long I was buying them, adding a unit here and there with some heros, and the next thing I knew I had about 1000 points from them, so I went back and bumped my original 700 point armies to 1000 as well.

So all last year and the beginning of this year I managed to accumulate:

Empire (from 6th Starter) plus some extras like Knights, Wizard, Swordsmen.
Orcs (from 6th Starter) plus some extras like Black Orcs and Shaman.
Dwarfs (from 7th Starter) plus Longbeards and Ironbreakers.
Goblins (from 7th Starter) plus a couple of Bolt Throwers. Still need some more to buy here I know. Might just pull from my starter Orcs.
High Elves (from 7th Starter) plus Spearmen and Repeater Bolt Thrower.
Skaven (from 7th Starter) plus Stormvermin and I might get a couple more units as I love the Skaven. Maybe a Doomwheel.

But then, I got:

Lizardmen Battalion - I had no idea how nice these models were going to be and I fell in love with the set the minute I opened the box. I added a Saurus Hero and Skink Shaman. I love the Slann model even tho I can't play them with armies this small, but I will probably end up getting him some day. But the Battalion had just about everything I needed for a 1000 point army.

Wood Elf Battalion - I got this set honestly because it was cheap, but reading more into them I fell in love with them. I am a big nature guy, and I love the Dryads and so forth, and I can't wait to really built these guys. They are not a conventional army I am used to playing so its nice to have them. Added a Commander, Mage, and using a box of Eternal guys as Glade Guard since RH doesn't have rules for them.

Chaos Warrior Battalion - This was a must and I got it for a good price. Added some bits to make a Champion out of one of the warriors, then a sorcerer and a Chaos Chariot. Really like this set. Oozes bad-ass.

Daemon Host - I got this, not sure what to do with it. Daemons are expensive in RH and I actually can't even field everything that comes in the box in a 1000 point game. Will come back to this some day.

Bretonnian Battalion - Yes, I got this, yes I paid big money for it. And to be honest, I wasn't even that big on the Bretonnians. I felt I already had a human army with the Empire, and I thought they were too historical looking for fantasy. But once I got the models I fell in love with them. Picked up some old mounted Squires and and a wizard to round out the army. Love this set.

Beastmen Battalion - I got these because like the Wood Elves they were fairly cheap, but I wasn't prepared for how much I would like them. I really, really like these guys. I think they are more Chaos-y than the Chaos Warriors themselves. I picked up not only a Beastman Hero and Shaman, but also a box of plastic Minotaurs which are awesome. Round out this army using the Chaos Hounds that came with the Warriors set to make 1000 points. At least for now. I thought about hunting down some Harpies. Let me know what you guys think.

Dark Elf Battalion - Like many of the other sets, I was surprised how much I would love these guys. Online pics just don't show off the detail these models have, since they are painted so dark. I picked up a Sorcerer and that was pretty much all I needed, but I also sprung for a Repeater Bolt Thrower too I will swap out a unit for at times. I like the Dark Elves so much I want to expand on them just for the sake of having, like the Dark Riders and Black Dragon, even if I will never play a game big enough to use it.

Vampire Count Battalion - I have the set with the red armor Vampire on the cover, and I love that pic. The set though comes up light. I do not have rules for the Corpse Cart in RH so I am going to try and convert it into a Black Coach. But I don't need it because I also picked up the Grave Guard, Bat Swarm, and more importantly plastic Dire Wolves which seem hard to find. Oh, and of course a Vampire and Necromancer too. Its not my favorite set but what is Warhammer without Vampires?

Tomb King Battalion - I will be honest here, I do not like any kind of historical references in Warhammer so I felt the Tomb Kings were just too Egyptian to me, but once I got the set, I was impressed with the models. The set comes with 40 Skeletons so I divided them up to make 20 warriors, 10 bowmen, and the last 10 to be converted into Tomb Guard. All I had to do to complete this set was add a Liche Priest and Tomb Lord, which I did.

And finally, The Ogre Kingdom Battalion - I know they are not in RH, but I am making an exception here using their 6th edition army book because I love these guys. The Battalion set didn't come with any Gobnars like the older set did, which is fine as they made up for it with more Ogres. I hunted down two sets of Gobnar regiments only to discover I only had enough points left to field one. But that is okay, because I want the extra Gobnars to be available down the road for when I get down to collecting a Chaos Dwarf army, since they ARE in Ravening Hordes, where I will refer to them as hobgoblins. Oh, I did get a Ogre Bruiser for a general.

I also picked up several sets of the modular movement trays and the Fortified Manor set. Also picked up 3 sets of Citadel Wood, and a nice stone looking bridge I think comes from the Bolt Action (?) game. I got it used so not sure. Hope to find more stuff to spice up my table.

So yes, that's where I stand now. I am sure many of you doubt this story but it true. I have been at it for about a year and was pretty obsessive getting to this point. But I am finally here and can take my time. I have started assembling what came in the starter sets and will move on to the others as I finish. I expect it all to take some dozen years at the rate I move lol.

Anyway, the reason for posting all this is that I wanted to say how I am really envious of you guys who have been involved with this game over the years and think you are really lucky to have gotten to play it while it was in its peak. I hate Sigmar, but at the same time can understand why GW went the direction they did. But it isn't fantasy as I am used to, and it's too over the top. WFB 6th, with its grit, is a lot like Games of Thrones with villages to be defended and monsters to kill. I am really having a blast exploring all this, even though I am really late to the party.

Will share my army lists in the future to knock for being too small!

Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 10, 2019, 08:11:32 PM
Welcome to this wonderful hobby, and welcome to W-E! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 12, 2019, 09:18:02 AM
Ah, obsession!

Been there myself - and I guess I'm still there - so very easy to believe this story.  :-)

You're certainly in good company here.  :icon_lol:

Please show your progress!

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 13, 2019, 02:32:51 PM
Welcome to the forum! Your a fine addition to the hobby and the board. I'm very interested to see how your stuff comes along. Never despair either. There's more people then you think out there still playing the old stuff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 13, 2019, 05:20:56 PM
Thanks everyone!

I was assembling all sorts of random stuff, but I have decided to focus by starting with the armies I got first, so starting with finishing my Empire army and working my way to the most recent. Orcs will be next.

My Empire army list (based on Ravening Hordes):

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

So total is about 985 at the moment so have some points I can play with. I probably should have more troops, but I am using blocks of 10 for human and Orc sized figures and 20 for the smaller like Goblins and Skaven.  Essentially using the 7th and 8th starter sets as guides. Not trying to build a power army, just get the most out of the figures I have. I ended up getting some duplicates in some lot auctions so that is why I have a second captain and a mortar for example. Might as well use them than sink more points into more troops.

I have some questions about the Empire:

The patterns on their shields... are they basically representing the regiment? The models all come with different shields with different designs on them. I wasn't sure if these represent a particular city in the Empire or a regiment themselves.

Also, I had the OLDER State Trooper sprues to make my swordsmen, and on the sprues were these two pouch looking things. I couldn't see them being used in any of the official GW studio models, so I am not sure what to do with them. The kinda look like they might be something that goes on the waist to protect the crouch or butt area. I tired to upload a pic from my phone but the image is too big.

Found them online!

(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images3/1/0416/24/oop-empire-state-troops-sprues-bits_1_9c9a31352b9ed8ef40e8ff1d89ef2bca.jpg)

They are the last two pieces on the bottom right... any idea what these are for?

Actually while I am at it, what is the thing above them? A canteen?

And, is there any significance with the feathers? Just deco or do they mean something?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 13, 2019, 05:25:13 PM
Yep, they hang off the hip as linked plates of armor.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 13, 2019, 05:40:11 PM
Off the hip? Like on either side?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on May 13, 2019, 05:47:46 PM

They are the last two pieces on the bottom right... any idea what these are for?


They are called 'tassets' and were to protect the upper thighs.
It was one of the annoying things in that kit that there wasn't enough of them to upgrade all the figures.
The soldiers kit was 6th Edition and you could use them to signify a 'Light Armour' status for your soldier.

It was quite easy though to create a mould and reproduce them in numbers in greenstuff.

You can see that there is a Left and a Right one - they should almost touch at the top near where the buckle on a belt would be, and 'frame' the codpiece.
Google 'tassets' for images



Actually while I am at it, what is the thing above them? A canteen?


Yep - one of the first 'kit extras' that appeared, nowadays you get all sorts of accessories to individualise your men.
This was useful as an extra adornment - I have some on my 40K Imperial Guard as well.

Oh and the feathers are just for adding to some of the heads as you feel necessary - maybe to make your command group look fancier, or just to make some troopers different.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2019, 08:19:04 AM
Regarding unit sizes, considering 6th edition had ranks of 4, consider units in regards to how many ranks they are including adding characters. Also don’t be misled - humans and orcs are not elite units, and are much closer to goblins and skaven than you would think. i think units of 10 for elves, dwarves, saurus, and chaos warriors are fine. For human soldiers not so much. Aim for a 4x4 block of 16 at a minimum, if not going up to 20. Orcs might be able to stay at the 16 size, but humans should probably go up to 20 as skaven basically have the same statline.

For empire, you would also want to consider using detachments - one of our key strengths, and you will need a unit of 20 to get one or two detachments of 10. Again, this isn’t about making a power list, but just a list that won’t automatically lose against armies with superior killing power.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 14, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
Well, I am trying to keep it simple, cost effective, and trying to avoid going down the rabbit hole with all the army books and special rules. As I mentioned in my OP that I am hosting 99% of the time, so I am trying to fulfill the desire to do the hobby and be able to play some easy, straight forward games. Blocks of 10 and 20 might work for some and not others, I know, but many of the <expansion> sets I am buying come in blocks or those. So rather than trying to dig up extra figures here and there, I am just going to keep them as they come.

The detachment thing I am aware of as well, but that involves using the Empire Army book and and then god knows what else special rules. If I were playing against you guys then sure, I would prob need to overhaul my armies. But in this case I am just trying to field some cool armies with some variety that aren't too complicated to play. Hence Ravening Hordes.

I am making an exception for the Ogre Kingdoms tho. Since they don't appear in RH I am using their book with some minor tweaks. I'll get to those guys in oh... about two years lol.

BTW, speaking of Orcs, here is my plan for them. I need advice at the end.

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Bronze Axe - 50

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Ogre Blade - 40

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chariot - 80

Troll - 50

Bolt Thrower - 30

Total comes to about 993.

I know the Troll should be in a unit of at least 3, but I needed to fill in some points and I got him from the 7th Starter set. Figured it wouldnt be a big deal. However, I feel like I have a lot of foot units and was wondering if I should hunt down a box of 5 Boar Boys and fit them in here. I don't know much about them, but just about all of my other armies have some kind of cavalry. I was initially just building armies to match what was in the other starter sets, which came to about 700 points, so I thought just having a single chariot would be fine, but now with 1000 points, it feels like a single chariot wouldn't have much of an impact. Not crazy about building another on of them either.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: At Warlord's suggestion I did pick up a unit of Boar Boyz, so I adjusted my army.

Removed the Troll (-50) and Bolt Thrower (-30).

The second Big Boss (65) now has a Biting Blade (10), Light Armor (2), and Shield (2).

The Orc Boys with Spears no longer have spears (-20).

And added the Boar Boyz (85)
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Army is now at 995 points.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2019, 09:39:22 PM
I understand about the detachment thing. I will check Ravening Hordes. I still think my feedback to keep human troops to size 16-20 is relevant though.

Have you built the goblin army? I guesd it would be interesting to see what point size you can get to with them? The bolt thrower and troll fit them better too themstically and to boost their strength potential otherwise they would also be fighting uphill against most armies.

Boar boys are great in 6th edition from memory. They will add more threat and reduce the need for random bolt thrower and troll...

As a sidenote, I have 5 I was planning to list on ebay at some point, basically a collection of bits using the champion sprue plastic legs and 6th edition boar bodies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 15, 2019, 12:30:58 AM
I have the Goblin army from the Battle for Skull Pass, but other than buying the Bolt Thrower (which the Orcs we’re borrowing too), I haven’t done much with them. Presently in order to field a 1000 point army I have to borrow some Orcs, which just doesn’t feel right. Not sure what to do about them as I know Goblins are cheap and I don’t want to paint 300 of them.

As far as your Boar Boy bitz, I actually have many of those parts and compared them with the Boar Boyz Set I was watching on eBay, and I felt the variety of the models in the official boar boy set gave me some more character. Like the standard and musician especially. I actually bought the Orc Boyz set that came with options for spears or swords because the back of the box showed a different banner than I already had, only to find the same warboss/standard/drummer sprue that came in the 6th edition starter set.  :icon_mad:  I really want a variety of standards to add character to my units. So that being said your post did convince me to buy the set I was watching so I am now the proud owner of a Boar Boyz unit. This means they will be replacing the troll and bolt thrower and some other items, but I agree with you those do belong with the Goblins. And honestly what’s an Orc warband without Boar Boyz? I should have known better.

Trying to watch costs though!

Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 15, 2019, 01:37:40 AM
Regarding banners, check out the Ogre banner, and the beastmen Gors banner.
Or use the bull head top and make a paper banner like they used to in 5th edition.
That said, the banner top with the bull head is a great conversion piece for a champion or character as a helmet.

Glad I could convince you of the Boar Boys.

Regarding Goblins, I saw you bought Gnoblars for your Ogres, but had a spare unit - you could consider making snotlings out of them, and also consider some snotling pump wagons. I assume they are in Ravening Hordes?

Consider if you can, adding squigs (are they in Ravening Hordes?) and fanatics to your model collection. Fanatics could even be easy to convert - some of the BfBfP goblins can have their spears chopped off, and if you have any ball and chains (such as in the Chaos Marauder box or the old Darkelf warrior box there is a piece too) you can use those.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 15, 2019, 02:15:17 AM
Yes I had put the Snotling Pump Wagon on my interest list (it is in RH) but it’s a Rare choice and I already have that slot filled with the Spider Riders that came in that Starter set. Not sure how good either is tho, although I am guessing the Spider Riders might be more reliable. But the pump wagon looks like a fun model.

Question: On eBay I am seeing two different sets of WFB counters. One comes in a red tin with paper counters I can’t make sense of (can’t zoom in well enough) and the other has plastic pieces and comes with come kind of tracker. Combat resolution tracker? Both are pretty inexpensive and I was wondering if they were worth getting. I am not playing big battles but if one or the other will help with reminders I am up for getting either. Anyone have these?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 16, 2019, 10:56:41 AM
Of course. I pulled out my copy of Ravening Hordes and had a peak today. You already have the spiders so use those.  :engel:

Regarding the counters, I am not sure / can’t remember having seen such a set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on May 16, 2019, 12:29:08 PM
Regarding the counters, I am not sure / can’t remember having seen such a set.

Was it the one in gold plastic - I think there were measuring and arc devices as well?
Round gold markers?

 (https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99220299031-0.jpg)

(http://www.wargamestore.com/images/P/wtemplate-01.jpg)

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 16, 2019, 12:53:34 PM
Hi, yes the top picture there is one of the ones I was talking about. The other this one:

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFB00/IMG/GAWWFB%2099220299021%20(65-27)%20-%20Counter%20Set%20[Box]%201A.jpg)

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFB00/IMG/GAWWFB%2099220299021%20(65-27)%20-%20Counter%20Set%20[Box]%201B.jpg)

There look like two different ones were made.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/163670935154_/Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles-Counter-Set.jpg)

Any idea what that gold compass-looking thing is in the gold set?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 16, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Also I have a question about Halberds and Shields in 6th edition and Ravening Hordes.

State Troops with Halberds come with hand weapon, Shields, and Halberds. Halberds require two hands in close combat, so they can’t use their shields while using them. So does this assume they can use them while being fired upon with ranged weapons? I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

Tomb Guard are also armed this way and it seems reasonable that this was done to make them flexible troops, but I see many examples of those models with shields whereas the Halberd models I see typically don’t have shields. Not even slung over their backs, which is something I would do.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 17, 2019, 06:06:00 AM
Also I have a question about Halberds and Shields in 6th edition and Ravening Hordes.

State Troops with Halberds come with hand weapon, Shields, and Halberds. Halberds require two hands in close combat, so they can’t use their shields while using them. So does this assume they can use them while being fired upon with ranged weapons?

Yes.

Quote
I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

Yes.

Quote
Any idea what that gold compass-looking thing is in the gold set?

The one semi-circle with an arrow? I think it is put on the corner of a unit to determine the front/flank/rear arc. Can be used to see if the unit sees an enemy unit, or if an enemy unit can charge the unit flank, etc.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 08:02:26 AM
I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

As Zygmund sayd that is allowed in 6th edition, but you do need to make that choice at the start of a close combat and stick to it until that close combat has completely ended.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 17, 2019, 12:20:43 PM
The one semi-circle with an arrow? I think it is put on the corner of a unit to determine the front/flank/rear arc. Can be used to see if the unit sees an enemy unit, or if an enemy unit can charge the unit flank, etc.

Ahh... yes. I can see that now. Many thanks. I just picked up that gold set that includes that off eBay.


As Zygmund sayd that is allowed in 6th edition, but you do need to make that choice at the start of a close combat and stick to it until that close combat has completely ended.

Ok so if they start out with the Halberds, they have to finish with them.

Seems odd they would be the same point costs as regular swordsmen then, since they have more options. Same with Spearmen.

Also, still have a pending question about designs on shields. Should my whole army be using the same design? Or would these differ between regiment? Or even if I had two units of Swordsmen, would they have the same pattern, or be different?

Like I have some shields that are plain with a choice of symbols to put on them. I have enough different symbols to give each unit their own one. But if they are in the same army, should they all be the same?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
In the 6th and 7th edition, Swordsmen were the superior choice.

Historically, an army at the time of the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th century would not be "uniform."  Such an army would mainly consist of Landsknechte for hire and levies from various (semi-)feudal lords. Landsknechte bought their own gear, which was very colourful and indiosyncratic, while units in the service of a lord would be normally equipped by their lord, and thus be a bit more uniform and carry his colours.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 17, 2019, 02:55:08 PM
Wow I never heard of those guys and are enjoying reading up on them. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 04:35:39 PM
If you rummage through The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=47520.0), you''ll find some contemporary pictures.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 18, 2019, 12:47:19 AM
Holy crap FvS, that thread is awesome and a ton to digest. Will have to read through it when I have some more time.

In the meantime, inspired by what I have read and seen of the Lanksknechte, I managed to scrounge up enough bits to make a unit of 10 Halberds with Champion, Standard, and Musician (got to love those lot purchases - glad I saved everything I didn’t think I needed). The best part is I have a bunch of heads with caps and lots of extra feathers so I am really going to pimp these guys out like I have seen in some pics. I didn’t really go nuts with my other units so I am excited about doing these guys up.

Wreaths. Knights have them on their shields. My knight spruces came with extras. Are these limited to Knights? If so where else would I put them? Can any of these go on a Spearman or Swordsman Champion or Standard?

Thanks for all the help guys, I am really pumped about my little Empire army.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 18, 2019, 07:46:45 AM
Wreaths. Knights have them on their shields. My knight spruces came with extras. Are these limited to Knights? If so where else would I put them? Can any of these go on a Spearman or Swordsman Champion or Standard?

I think one or two character sprues also have a wreath, and some character heads too. The miniature designers obviously thought that these were a thing for nobility. But naturally, you can put them wherever you want. They could be laurels to adorn a guard unit or a unit that has performed very well in combat.

About the shield designs, I would say that most commoner units had such designs they could afford, using their unit colours or the colours of their sponsoring lord. Yet even some infantry shields could be very ornate and have beautiful art, maybe to depict the individuality of the soldier, or the skills in his family. Most animal emblems had a clear meaning in heraldry. So a heraldic animal (bull, eagle) could either refer to the city/province coat of arms, or to the unit achievements, or even to individual achievements of a soldier.

If you look at the shields in the knight set, you can see there are two themes: the Reiksguard knights, with skulls and laurels, and the Panther knights, obviously with panthers or panther heads. There are four shields of each theme per sprue. So you have thematic uniformity, yet some individuality.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 18, 2019, 04:12:38 PM
That Art History thread truly is a treasure on this board. I have a read through it every few months just to look at the pictures.

For the wreaths, both the individual bit and the shield, I've given them to my unit champions before. I've used it in my fluff to signal bravery, rewards, characters with a bit of backstory or noble origins, etc. Your imagination is the limit.

At one point I started work on a unit of swordsmen that were going to be the household guard for one of my Nobles (Captain model) that couldn't afford greatswords. They were all pimped out with wreaths, the best shields, fancy swords, etc.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 18, 2019, 11:58:13 PM
Outstanding, so I will dress up the champions a little adding a wreath on some. Not all I don’t want to over do it. Also on the shields, I hadn’t planned on it, but I am def going to customize many of them as suggested. Not quite like the Knights shields, but since I will be mounting some symbol on the shield, I think I will make some slight variations in the colors behind or around them. Maybe add some checkers or some small crest in a corner. I hadn’t thought of going that deep into the colors for these guys, but I figure each of my units only have 10 figures I might as well try to make them stand out.

You guys sure know your stuff.

That being said, I didn’t realize how ‘Empire’ this board was until I really started looking around lol. I have many interests as my OP states, so after I finalize my Empire stuff, I am moving on to my Orcs, then who knows what. I assume you guys have more interest than just the Empire right? I will want to ask your opinions on all of my armies.

BTW, my Black Coach arrived today and so did my Boar Boyz. Very thankful I got those guys. No idea what the hell I was thinking not getting them sooner. Well, I am trying to stay in something of a budget, but as I was advised when I started getting into this, I might as well give up on any ‘modest’ plan when it comes to collecting. Especially as some of it is OOP.

I really plan to stay within 1000 point armies but I do want some unique looking models. Currently considering getting the new model of the Wood Elf Treeman. I know the kit makes a variety of them but RH only has the one kind and are cool with that. Has anyone played/played against it? Is it too overpowering for small games? I love the model.

Oh, I also wanted to note that I just picked up my 4th Citadel Wood. Only $25 too. Mostly because I heard a rumor GW is replacing it with another and I really like the current one. I also wanted to make each one unique, not only using the various bits that come in them (like the handing sign, etc), but I also want to use many of the Wood Elf creature bits and I think there is a snail in the Bretonnian set too. I didn’t want to overdo these by adding all these to each Wood (that would be overkill), but sort of give each base it’s own character if that makes sense. Really excited about this. I love trees on the gaming board.

Anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy rivers? I thought of making my own but if there is a nice set out there you would recommend please let me know.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 19, 2019, 03:35:13 AM
I have almost all the WHFB armies except filthy vermin and slimy lizards. Oh, and demons - I don’t have them either. So yeah, happy to help / interested in other armies too  :happy:

Most players here know about all the armies - Empire just has the most grounding in real world history too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 19, 2019, 11:59:40 AM
That being said, I didn’t realize how ‘Empire’ this board was until I really started looking around lol. I have many interests as my OP states, so after I finalize my Empire stuff, I am moving on to my Orcs, then who knows what. I assume you guys have more interest than just the Empire right? I will want to ask your opinions on all of my armies.

This was THE Empire forum for years, and that's why most of us have joined. But the forum has broadened and gotten more relaxed about the themes over time. Possibly because eventually even hard-core Empire fans build that other army for another faction, and then a third... :)

Anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy rivers? I thought of making my own but if there is a nice set out there you would recommend please let me know.

Gale Force Nine (GF9) did a nice river set with some plasticy flexible material as the base. Very flat and nice looking, usable straight out of the box.

There are several independent wargame terrain makers with river sets on eBay, with varying price/quality points. I had a semi-bad experinece with one, whose ready-painted set turned out to be sloppily painted and made of brittle plaster which broke during shipping despite decent packaging. I'd carefully check that the river pieces are made of either resin or with the GF9 method, and also see what kind of feedback the seller has gotten.

You can also make rivers yourself. You should find several tutorials just by searching. And you should indeed read/watch several, to find out your preferred method.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 19, 2019, 03:51:35 PM
I have at least 1000 points of every single fantasy army except for maybe tomb kings. That might be more like 800. It's a pretty common theme on the board to have multiple armies that's for sure.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 21, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
Useless information incoming.

So when I started collecting WFB stuff, I started before I knew the rules. I knew a lot more about Mordheim than I knew Fantasy Battles. And since I didn't know which edition of the rules I was going to be pursuing, I kind held off reading into the rules too much. But that didn't stop me from collecting the armies.

One of the things I did was create look-alike character models on foot if I had mounts for them, one mounted the other on foot. It was easy when I had an extra Empire and Orc command sprue from the 6th Stater set, but I did this with the Elf Noble, etc. Anyone who had a horse mount, or even the Elf Griffon in the 8th set, got the same guy on foot. I thought at the time, well, what if the guy loses his horse? I don't want to replace the model with some rank and file guy. I was told monsters could die so I assumed horses could too. It wasn't until later did I find that horses just make the model's save better. So I did all this silly work for nothing. Except, that I love it. I guess this gives me some flexibility if I want to play skirmish or play around with my lists, but it also really puts the emphasis on the character leading my armies.

That being said, I picked up the last of what I needed for the Bretonnians which arrived this morning. I have the more 'recent' Battalion set that comes with the single Pegasus Knight, and I picked up an extra helmet that comes in the set that is similar to the Knight on the cover of the box, who I am modelling the General of my army after. So now I have 3 of the same helmet. I picked up an extra Knight-ish looking figure from the command sprue as well. So when I am done, I will have the same jabroni on foot, on horseback, AND on a pegasus. Painted up as he is on the cover of the box. Totally stoked.

I know, I am brilliant.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 21, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
Yes indeed, you ARE brilliant!

Care to take a couple of photos of these guys? It's OK even if you haven't yet painted them, as this kind of kitbashing rocks. :)

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 21, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
It might take some time before I get to the Bretonnians... I started the armies in my starter sets and want to knock them out first. I would love to post pics as I go, but the last time I tried to upload a photo from my iphone the forum said it was too big. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 21, 2019, 06:12:11 PM
I can't upload photos to the forum. Instead, I use imgur to host the pictures and link from there.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 22, 2019, 01:34:08 AM
hey, welcome, been watching your progress over at dakka-dakka, good to see you branching out of there.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 02:56:04 PM
Hey man! Yeah I had no choice I got banned! lol

So I recently picked up the Dogs of War, 5th edition army book, and I love it. I have to be honest many moons ago, and it might have been when this book was first published, I remember seeing Braganza's Besiegers in White Dwarf, and really liked them. I always thought if I had a Warhammer army, I would have a unit of those guys in it. Well, I have stayed away from any thought of Dogs of War since they aren't in RH, but RH does mention using 'Mercenaries' as a Rare Choice. I haven't dived deep enough into the 6th edition rules to know how the 5th edition Dogs of War would fit in it. Was there ever 6th edition rules made for these guys? Is it fair to use them as they are in Dogs of War?

Not sure a small unit of the Besiegers would make a difference, but since I am going with small armies anyway, it wouldn't take much to field a unit for some character. What do you guys think? Do I go down this rabbit hole?

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 23, 2019, 03:03:00 PM
They were a 6th ed supplement in the Annuals and General’s compendium I believe?
Been a while since I thought what book they are in, but yes they have rules.
Probably best to treat them as a standalone army rather than including mercenaries, as the rules for them are in the 6th ed armybooks I think.

Out of curiosity, why were you banned from Dakkadakka? What behaviours do I need to watchout for  ::heretic::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 03:19:18 PM
Out of curiosity, why were you banned from Dakkadakka? What behaviours do I need to watchout for  ::heretic::

Well, I am an easy going guy, but I am going to stick up for myself. Dakka is a pretty snarky place. Lots of arrogance going around too for a bunch of gaming dorks, and for no reason. And the peeps owning most of the fault for this are the mods, who are the absolute worst. I have the feeling they follow their rules for some people, and let them go lax for others, and what ends up happening is posters feel others are getting away with jabs, see no punishment for that, get frustrated, and bitterness follows. And to avoid breaking obvious rules they do things passively. But its all the same shit. Its a very toxic place in my opinion. I have no idea why I posted there as long as I did. I guess cause I don't really bounce around from forum to forum much.

And I guess it can be argued that I am not 'banned' per say, but suspended for a ridiculously long time. Also two of the guys who gave me the most dings stopped being mods. And most of my dings were in the US Politics thread which eventually was shut down.

You are never going to see me getting hostile over gaming. That is just silly. But if you are from outside the US and taking shots at America, well, you are going to get a shot back so to speak. And I don't mean legit criticisms, I mean just acting like a dick.

I don't see a Politics and Religion thread in here so we're good! lol
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 23, 2019, 03:30:42 PM
Alright then! Should be fine I think / hope.

There is - its hidden. They can get out of hand, but most of the controversial people have left long ago. Usually it stays in those threads and doesn’t affect the rest of the forum. Politics and religion are generally avoided subjects for a reason!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 23, 2019, 03:35:14 PM
DoW in 6th edition were published in the WD & the Chronicles, in 3 parts:
- Armies for hire: the basic rules and units (Alessio Cavatore; WD 251 and Annual 2002)
- Regiments of Renown:  special units like Pirazzo's Lost Legion (Alessio Cavatore; WD 252 and Annual 2002)
- Special Characters (Marc Mann; Chronicles 2003)

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 06:12:07 PM
Thanks FoS, it turns out I have some of those books and indeed there are some rules in there. Thanks. I can't believe how much literature was produced for 6th edition. You guys must have been giddy every time a new book came out.

Also while looking over Chronicles 2003 book, I came across the massive FAQ and Errata section. Jesus. I barely have digested the rulebook and see there was a lot of confusion with the rules back then. But then, I guess 40k was like this too. I remember 'lite on the rules, heavy on the FAQs'.

At present I am trying to digest charging and how the models line up. All the diagrams show these neat positions that I can see rarely happen in actual game play. What if a unit of 6-20mm bases is charged from the front at an angle by a 4-wide unit of 25mm bases. How do you determine where the models start to line up as the difference in stands mean that they will overlap each other. Who gets to decide who in the charging unit lines up with who? Especially if the defending unit has to pivot around to face the charge?

All this would make sense in 2min if I could see this in person and ask questions.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 03, 2019, 05:42:16 PM
Hey man! Yeah I had no choice I got banned! lol

So I recently picked up the Dogs of War, 5th edition army book, and I love it. I have to be honest many moons ago, and it might have been when this book was first published, I remember seeing Braganza's Besiegers in White Dwarf, and really liked them. I always thought if I had a Warhammer army, I would have a unit of those guys in it. Well, I have stayed away from any thought of Dogs of War since they aren't in RH, but RH does mention using 'Mercenaries' as a Rare Choice. I haven't dived deep enough into the 6th edition rules to know how the 5th edition Dogs of War would fit in it. Was there ever 6th edition rules made for these guys? Is it fair to use them as they are in Dogs of War?

Not sure a small unit of the Besiegers would make a difference, but since I am going with small armies anyway, it wouldn't take much to field a unit for some character. What do you guys think? Do I go down this rabbit hole?

I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay
 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Victor on June 04, 2019, 06:19:26 PM
Edit: Fidelis already answered everything.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 04, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
FAE as opposed to FAQ?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 06, 2019, 08:51:54 PM
I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

Yeah I think I saw some of those arguments before, and sided with Tony. The thing is, I had no idea which edition I would like the most when I got the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets. I thought that maybe the later versions would be more refined and easier to grasp, and at the least I would get 6 cool and different starter armies out of it. Over time I would digest the rulebooks and then decide which way to go. One of the immediate things I understood about 8th was that the magic was too powerful, and since I was playing small games of mostly units of 10 infantry (with some exceptions), I knew that wasn't for me. Didn't matter what else it had going on for it. And I love wizards and all that, but just prefer they play a role and not dominate.

In the end though, I loved the dark atmosphere of 6th (I always found the previous versions too colorful and circus-like), but most importantly all the literature that was released during it, much of which is going to take me a long time to read through. And it was literature written for 6th. I don't see much for 8th except all of the End of Times stuff which essentially kills the world.

I am attracted to the spirit of the game as much as I am the models and the mechanics themselves. I want an expansive universe, but one that is grounded too. I think that is why I love 6th so much. It isn't just the rules for 6th, but Skirmish, Siege, Mordhiem, etc. The 6th edition is a pretty dense rulebook with a lot to explore, even if it might be thinner that the hardback 7th and 8th edition rulebooks. It manages to give you a variety of ways to play games with the same miniatures. I wish GW had done the same with 40k at the time. Plus I see 7th and 8th being run by the sales department as opposed to the designers who really loved the games. There was obviously a lot of passion for WFB 6th at the time, just as there was for 40k 3rd. Both had pretty long shelf lives and a lot was explored for both.

Quote
I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay

Yeah I saw in the Ogre Kingdom rulebook they specify that some units can be mercenaries. Brilliant.

BTW, since I am using RH for all my army lists, and Ogre Kingdoms isn't in it, I am essentially applying the same points for Champs, Musicians, and Standards for Ogres as they are in RH, 10 points for each. Anyone see a problem with that? The reason is that across the official army books those values do vary from army to army but they are all the same in RH regardless (except for Calavry). Just wanted to keep things consistent.

I've actually been doing the same thing in 40k as I am with WFB... buying up some of the older Battle Force sets and filling things out to make 700 point armies, so I have been holding up some purchases of WFB.

Oh, I did get those GF9 Rivers that were suggested and yes they are nearly perfect! Pre-painted well enough for me to finish. I had given serious thought to making my own, but this frees up a lot of time. Will touch them up some. Very happy, thanks for the recommendation to whoever recommended those.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 07, 2019, 03:50:36 PM
I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

Yeah I think I saw some of those arguments before, and sided with Tony. The thing is, I had no idea which edition I would like the most when I got the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets. I thought that maybe the later versions would be more refined and easier to grasp, and at the least I would get 6 cool and different starter armies out of it. Over time I would digest the rulebooks and then decide which way to go. One of the immediate things I understood about 8th was that the magic was too powerful, and since I was playing small games of mostly units of 10 infantry (with some exceptions), I knew that wasn't for me. Didn't matter what else it had going on for it. And I love wizards and all that, but just prefer they play a role and not dominate.

In the end though, I loved the dark atmosphere of 6th (I always found the previous versions too colorful and circus-like), but most importantly all the literature that was released during it, much of which is going to take me a long time to read through. And it was literature written for 6th. I don't see much for 8th except all of the End of Times stuff which essentially kills the world.

I am attracted to the spirit of the game as much as I am the models and the mechanics themselves. I want an expansive universe, but one that is grounded too. I think that is why I love 6th so much. It isn't just the rules for 6th, but Skirmish, Siege, Mordhiem, etc. The 6th edition is a pretty dense rulebook with a lot to explore, even if it might be thinner that the hardback 7th and 8th edition rulebooks. It manages to give you a variety of ways to play games with the same miniatures. I wish GW had done the same with 40k at the time. Plus I see 7th and 8th being run by the sales department as opposed to the designers who really loved the games. There was obviously a lot of passion for WFB 6th at the time, just as there was for 40k 3rd. Both had pretty long shelf lives and a lot was explored for both.

Quote
I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay

Yeah I saw in the Ogre Kingdom rulebook they specify that some units can be mercenaries. Brilliant.

BTW, since I am using RH for all my army lists, and Ogre Kingdoms isn't in it, I am essentially applying the same points for Champs, Musicians, and Standards for Ogres as they are in RH, 10 points for each. Anyone see a problem with that? The reason is that across the official army books those values do vary from army to army but they are all the same in RH regardless (except for Calavry). Just wanted to keep things consistent.

I've actually been doing the same thing in 40k as I am with WFB... buying up some of the older Battle Force sets and filling things out to make 700 point armies, so I have been holding up some purchases of WFB.

Oh, I did get those GF9 Rivers that were suggested and yes they are nearly perfect! Pre-painted well enough for me to finish. I had given serious thought to making my own, but this frees up a lot of time. Will touch them up some. Very happy, thanks for the recommendation to whoever recommended those.

I understand the draw of the RH book for armies, but it's too simplistic for me, and my collecting has grown to be around 5-10k in points for each army...whoops. So I can look in an army book and pick any unit I want to field. I have a couple left here and there to add more units, but I would have been done a long time ago if I went RH, and with the amount I paint, I'd be out of the hobby quick. I really enjoy the darkness that is in 6th, makes it more grounded and realistic. There is still the insanity with walking ratmen mad scientists and things like the ogres worshipping the great mouth.

I originally packed my stuff up because of 7th. It was like balancing a bag of feathers with a boulder. If you didn't have the last army that came out, you were underpowered, and I didn't see myself buying every army at that point.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on June 07, 2019, 04:01:59 PM
KTG17 - have you considered the other 6th ed material? For example Storm of Chaos alternate army takes. Kislev supplement? Skaven hellpit armylist? Amazons? Undead cairn armylist?

Generally thesr bite size army lists from white dwarf are a lot of fun..,,
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 17, 2019, 08:51:17 PM
I have seen some of them, but honestly this is a one man show over here and trying to keep things simple. My friends are not into this stuff like I am, so even if I were to get giddy over a cool list with some options, it would get lost on them. To be honest I have no idea where I would be without RH. RH is what inspired me to get all the armies in it.

I have come across lists here and there, and if I were in some kind of gaming group that was into this like you guys where, I would probably be all about trying them out. But honestly its actually difficult for me to focus on the path I am on because I am actually into so many different things that I weave in and out of things. The more layers or details that get added to something the more complicated it makes it for me.

But I am thinning out a lot of my collections over the last year. Trying to streamline things while buying up old WFB and old 40k lol. I just about have everything I want, so will be able to get back into diving deeper into the lore and rules and all that.

I want to post some pics of what I have. What is an easy image host that I can use to upload images from my phone?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on June 19, 2019, 08:03:16 AM
No probs.
Photobucket used to be the platform of choice until they made some major changes and also held peoples pictures hostage.
I use Imgur nowadays.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 22, 2019, 08:29:52 AM
KTG17 - have you considered the other 6th ed material? For example Storm of Chaos alternate army takes. Kislev supplement? Skaven hellpit armylist? Amazons? Undead cairn armylist?

Generally thesr bite size army lists from white dwarf are a lot of fun..,,

What is this hellpit list?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 22, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
The Hell Pit Army List is a Clan Moulder Army list (Hell Pit being the Clan's  base) with emphasis on monstrous elements. It was published in WD 311 (Nov 2005) as a "Warhammer Chronicles" article.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 24, 2019, 08:55:31 PM
Interesting,  i'll look that up. Moulder hasn't always been my strong clan lol
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 25, 2019, 08:20:34 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

So I got side-tracked with 40k. Went crazy buying up a final wishlist before I stop looking at modern 40k forever, but now I am back into WFB!

In that time I finished off purchasing the remaining 1000 point armies on my to-do list, and, just as many would predict, I went ahead and bought a few more models beyond my initial plan. So I went from a naive 700 point list for each race, got talked into expanding to 1000 point, then on my own picked up some odd 300 points or so for some of the armies. Some of this came about because I purchased some lots and just had some extras, others I went after just because I liked the model and thought it would be fun to build and paint.

So I am going to share my base 1000 point armies, and mention the other models I have to mix things up. These are all based on Ravening Hordes unless noted.  Enjoy!

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven :o


********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.



Ok thats it what do you all think?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on July 25, 2019, 08:41:50 PM
I'm thinking you're moving full speed ahead! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 27, 2019, 01:57:48 PM
Not enough infantry models in your empire list - too much points on mounted captains. Empire infantry are horde infantry meaning you need bigger units than 10 models to be useful. 16 in 4x4 at a minimum, 20 is better. Especially fighting clanrats and skeletons, or enemy elite units that also have 10 models.

Otherwise I like where most of the way the rest of the armies are progressing!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 27, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
What Warlord says. Also: give your Wizard the Rod of Power instead. That was one of our best items.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on July 27, 2019, 03:18:42 PM
More Empire infantry could be good! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 01:42:53 PM
Thanks for all your input! I will look into that rod.

The thing about the units of 10... I know if I were playing any kind of serious gamer my empire army would get crushed, but keep in mind I am I am trying to do 3 things: (1) Have some variety and (2) keep the costs down. The great thing about not pursuing a 2000 point Empire army for example and only get a 1000 point one, is that it free's up cash to buy another 1000 army from another race. Granted I have gone over that 1000 point amount here and there, but that has usually been due to the model itself and not what it does for the army. The (3) is also... man I don't have a lot of time. And I am REALLY eclectic. Just imagine what I have done here with WFB in the last couple of years and throw in half a dozen other interests. I am really all over the place. So if I go crazy, I will never get many of these models painted let alone built.

Also, I am putting a lot of effort in giving each model its own character as much as I can. Like my rank and file Empire guys rarely share the same head.

Also, most of my starters, as well as the additional box sets that I have bought, usually come with a minimum of 10 guys. I have been thinking about the mobs of 20 Skaven... the Island of Blood came with 2 units of Elves who were in units of 10, against those two units of 20 Clanrats... so that is why I assumed 10 all around would be an okay number. I never though the Empire was a horde army, like Skaven or Undead would be. I also can't imagine fielding a unit of only 10 Clanrats either. That doesn't seem right.

Also, I do have a lot of points in some of the army's characters, I know that. That is usually due to what models I have.

A couple of more things.... I have started looking a Siege. Has anyone ever played a game using a fortress? Was it fun? I prefer battles involving movement and I am not sure how exciting a castle would be.

And when I wrote my army lists above, I had purchased the Skaven Doomwheel but hadn't received it yet. Well I got it. And I love it. I swear GW was making some amazing models in the last couple editions of WFB. I wasn't at all impressed with the original Doomwheel.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 30, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
Well, you could use the Spearmen as proxies for the Halberdiers (or vice versa). That would give you a 20-strong unit, that would also allow you to use the Swordsmen and/or Handgunners as Detachments.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 04:53:39 PM
How would a 10 man Empire unit match up against:

10 Skaven Clan Rats (as opposed to 20)
or
10 Skeletons
?

Oh, BTW, I did pick up a Dwarf Gyrocopter. Then I read the rules. It seems kind of useless. But I needed something of a rare choice.

Oh part 2, I made a mistake in my Dwarves army list. I don't have Longbeards, I have Hammerers. I like the Longbeard models better tho, but they come with Great Axes and RH says not so fast its hand weapons and shields, and I believe that option isnt included in the set. I guess the Hammerer models are different though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 30, 2019, 06:45:21 PM
Well, I will not crunch the numbers, but the Clanrats have two major advantages: M5 and I4. In the 6th edition, the attacker strikes first and there is no step-up. Any model you kill first means less attacks against you. With I4, the Clanrats will strike before Halberdiers & Swordsmen, and simultaneously with the Swordsmen. However, M5 makes it more likely that the Clanrats will be able to attack and thus strike first in the first round of CC against Swordsmen too.
The Skeletons have one big advantage: Fear. In the 6th, Fear was far more powerful than in the 8th edition.
That is why in the 6th (and 7th) edition, Swordsmen were the superior choice, since they had WS4, I4, and a 4+ AS. You'd stiil want at least 20 of them, though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 08:55:35 PM
Ahh... I missed those stats on the Swordsman. I just assumed they were the same as everyone else. I can see why peeps like them. Well, they are a core part of my army now!

That being said, I know you want me to play in big blocks, but I don't ever see me and my friends ever playing competitively. I like units of 10 for basic infantry, 5 for cavalry, as I seem to buy them in those numbers most of the time, so I will prob just keep it that way. And I am okay with a strong unit of 10 guys overwhelming a unit of weaker 10 guys. That makes sense and means a player should rely on tactics and supporting fire to help out as opposed to just rank bonuses. I know in some armies, like Goblins, you just have to go with 20 (not just because of the rules, but they are just poor fighters), but does this mean I should consider using units of 10 for Skaven, Skeletons, and Zombies as well? I guess if I use RH as a guide, if I just go with the minimum for each unit, I should still be somewhat balanced.

I am not sure I have all the command models I need if I went that route tho...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 02:18:08 PM
To my mind, if you are curating the collections, you are creating the meta on which armies will dominate all games. This is basically about giving everyone a fair chance to win with any army using the units in the army provided, and tactics and luck. And that is the basis of your players having a fun time. Just a fair chance.

Firstly, let's address your measure of '5 for cav, 10 for infantry'.

I think you need to differentiate between basic infantry and elite infantry. Elite infantry at unit size 10 is fine. Basic, or 'horde' infantry you should be looking at 16-20, even up to 24 size.

10 'basic' infantry in most cases means cavalry and elite infantry will slaughter them almost every time. 10 for basic infantry means they are chaff (disposable) - but if all you have is chaff you won't ever win a battle.

You asked to compare 10 empire troops vs 10 clanrats - that fight has a fair chance to go either way. Just as 20 vs 20 of the same type. But what about 10 empire troops vs 10 black orcs, or 10 clanrats vs 10 chaos warriors. Elite infantry will pretty much win every time.
That's where you need to differentiate between elite infantry numbers and basic / horde infantry numbers.

I know you don't see empire troops as a 'horde', but the troop cost aligns to that...

I understand budget constraints and time will make this a challenge, and a lot of your army mixes and units are not far off anyway.
If you have the 6th ed starter box, I think that came with 16 spearmen and 16 handgunners and a command sprue?
The extra 10 halberds will help, but if you can even arrange for them to be units of 12 or 15 or 16 instead of 10, I think it will help.

Anyway, I will give my quick view on fair unit sizes for the armies you have listed below. I am not talking uber competitive or optimised, just a general range on what would produce a fair fight.

-----------

Regardless, some of your other points:

Gyrocopter's purpose is to slow enemy advance by March Blocking, allowing more time for shooting.
In that way, it's a good distraction for the enemy.
Which model did you get? The new plastic one, or the older metal one?

Longbeards and Hammerers are both good elites. I wouldn't worry about axes, because there is no 'axe' rule. Either Hand Weapon or Great Weapon. Also, in 7th edition GW phased out the Longbeard models, so just more fancier warriors would be fine for models. That said, you have hammerer models. They are great.

I have not played Siege, but I think it generally suits some armies better than others. Could be fun for you and your friends though.

Like you say, the 'new' doomwheel is great. The old one was.... not.

I would love to see a photo of your Runesmith.

Next post will be my high level feedback.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:05:39 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

Yes it is. I love that you shared this.

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


Knights of the White Wolf are a great pick here.
Again, combining the halberds into the spearmen unit would be my suggestion to make a unit of 20 spearmen
Greatswords would be a great pick though, but 5th, 6th, 7th ed versions are all quite expensive. Great models though.

If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.



********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


The 2 units of boyz are fine as units of 10, or could combine into a unit of 20. Mixed weapons look in a unit of Orcs is fine.

Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap. Both great sets though. You could always paint the Boyz with 2 hand weapons as savages, with the war paint and that could work too.

A Giant could look good here too.
Or you could even use Ogres here too as the Rare choice if they are not going up against them.


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.



I think the Slayer as a character is fine. In the armybook, they do that anyway.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.



********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


I think Silver Helms balance this army. Some Archers would be great, but Sea Guard can do that I guess.



********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven :o


It’s a solid army, especially with the addition of the Doomwheel.
I personally hate skaven, but consider if you want a unit of 20 slaves in there too for chaff, or some skirmishers to do something different.



********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.



********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but that’s what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.
Wardancers are a lot of fun too though as an option



********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


Marauder Cavalry would make this well rounded, and the box set is great. Consider it.




********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


I'm not great with Demons either.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


Need more knights.
You need to differentiate between the human armies, and Bretonnians should be full of knights.
The Men-at-Arms suffer from the same problem as the Empire troops - combine the 2 units of 10 into 1 of 20.
And get at least 1 more unit of knights.
I wouldn't worry about the Squires thing - they are 10+ because they simplified the rules to cover them as foot skirmishers too. 5 is fine.
Don't forget to get more knights. Old 5th ed knights should be easy to track down? Can be a lot of fun to convert them as Questing or Grail Knights.
I am excited you got the Paladin on Pegasus. A lot of fun there.




********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


The Gors would be the same advice as I had for the Orc Boyz. Fine separate, or as 1 unit of 20 with 'mixed weapons' to be whichever option you like.
Don't forget, you can borrow the Chaos Hounds in this army too.
I think the Ungors need to be bigger, but I think they can be expensive to buy nowadays.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.
Get that Repeater.



********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.
Black Coach will be fun. Great mix of units.



********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


Also a great mix of units. Catapult would be the final touch.



********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.


I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?
This is fine. They will do well against most of these armies. A ScrapLauncher is a lot of fun too.


Ok thats it what do you all think?

I think you are missing a Chaos Dwarf army!

Can be expensive, or can be a lot of fun conversions….

And perhaps a Dogs of War army?

No pressure!  :biggriin:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, I am appreciating it.

I guess I should point out that the 7th and 8th starter sets pretty much had the biggest influences on me on how I set out to do this. In those sets, the Dwarves and Elves were in units of 10 for infantry and in the case of the Elves, their cavalry in a unit of 5. The Goblins and Skaven units were twice that, so I assumed that was because they were lesser units.

The contents of the 6th edition kind of left me confused, and I just assumed they came in the numbers they did because of how GW put the figures on sprues at the time. And since I got all of the starters at once, I thought I would sort of unify the strategy and just model the Empire and Ork armies on how the other armies were packaged. And the best part, since I was sure of my plan, I sold off my empire extras to buy other stuff.  :eusa_wall:

Even still, I don't have a problem of 10 elite troops wiping the floor with 10 basic troops. I assume that other things would happen though, like these units having to cross ground which might be covered with ranged weapons for example. All this is theoretical though, I know. I am still digesting the rules as I have time (I took on magic the other day and wow a lot of dice rolling for little result).

I guess if I am going to stick to the minimum unit size for the Empire, I probably should do that for everyone. I didn't realize the Clanrats were as good as they were. I just assumed since they came in a block of 20 in the 8th set, which looks great to me, up against units of 10 for Elves, that that seemed to be the right number to use against everyone. Ravening Hordes has them coming in units of 10 and maybe that is where I should keep them. Which means I now need more command models!  :icon_mad:

Since I am playing small games, I think smaller unit sizes means more options on the table. I dont want to sink a lot of points into a few formations and it just becomes moving everyone to the center of the board and rolling dice.

As far as the Gyrocopter... I got the metal one. I didn't know there was a plastic one. Crap I would have bought a plastic one if I knew it existed. The metal one looks really wimpy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
No problem! I love the scale of what you are trying to do.
I did that, and didn't stop.
But I also didn't collect everything. I don't have Bretonnians, Lizardmen, Skaven or Demons. But I have the rest.

Ultimately my main feedback is on the human armies, 1 for you to differentiate them, and 2, to ensure the combat infantry is treated the same as clanrats, skeletons and goblins, because their capabilities aren't that different. What 8th ed setup for you was right. The elites should be 10, and the basics should be 20. That way either side can win. And each army you are building will have options and strategies for crossing the field under fire or flanking, or bait and flee. Don't have the human armies be the un-fun ones because they start off at such a disadvantage.

The other feedback, is if you have a few extra models in places, consider not putting full command on every unit. Sometimes not even any command at all. it will save you points to field all your models, and some units don't benefit from the extra cost - especially missile troops, but especially the human missile troops of 10 models, and also the Elven missile troops too. Dwarves can handle themselves, Orcs and Goblins should be running forward and shooting and getting stuck in, so its fine for them.

Regarding selling off, I think with some swaps, like adding the halberds to the spearmen, and combining the 2 men at arms units, you get there.
I know you don't seem to mind elites beating basics, but its more that once those human basics are gone, there isn't anything left. Everyone expects humans to die to elites regardless, you just want them to put up a little bit of a fight in the process, and that's all adding the extra numbers does.

Sorry to keep harping on.

I really don't think you should drop basics down to 10 models.

Keep in mind that games, even at 1000 points can take a while to play. Like you say about magic, a lot of rolling for little effect.
I think mostly your mix of units would mean a decent game at a casual pace with a beer could take about 2 hours, maybe more or less depending on how luck shines on you.

No, the metal Gyrocopter is cool. I just always had trouble keeping it stuck together. I sold it when they announced the plastic one, and then for quite a while I didn't like the look of the plastic one. I need to buy one one of these days.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 03:29:45 PM
On a side note: you could use unit fillers to enlarge your units without (too much of an) extra cost.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 03:48:46 PM
If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.

Did they make plastic Reiksguard on foot?

Quote
Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap.

I like the Savage Ork models but I thought it should be either I go all savage, or not at all...

Quote
I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.

There seems to be an extra layer of rules for these guys and that kind of intimidates me with a system with already having a ton of rules. Will look into them. I do like the plastic models I might as well buy a couple.......

Quote
I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.

Well, I got all those Saurus models in the Battalion set, so I would prefer to use up all of them if I can.

Quote
I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but that’s what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.

Yeah I agree on the lacking part. I have what I have from the Battalion set. I looked weak to me but I thought maybe things were in the rules that would make them shine through. Will tinker with it.

Quote
Need more knights.
Well they are pricey! And if I include more, then I have to give up another unit that I paid big $$$ for lol. I am kinda stuck at the moment.

Quote
Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.

No, I went a cheaper route and bought extra random Dark Elf bits to make one. I will post pics when I get to him. To be honest, Dark Elves are a long way off on my list of things to do.

Quote
Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.

But should I be doing 10 now??? Since I am going RH minimums?

Quote
I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?

Yes, sorry.

And yes! I plan to do Chaos Dwarves. I was all set to buy some on eBay, but the key unit I wanted was being sold in a lot, and I lost the auction and the excitement. Will get around to them some day. I have a army list. Will share it and see what you think soon.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Quick question:

After going back and forth on it, I have decided to base all of chariots with chariot bases, rather than using just bases for the horses. This is a little difficult for me as not all of the models came with them, and they are hard to find now. The Black Coach tho, is pretty big, and is actually too big for the normal chariot base. I thought about jerry-rigging a chariot base with another base and filling and sanding the gaps to make it look nice, but then I thought why not use a monster base? Would this be ok? I saw somewhere a sheet that included all of the base sizes for all units in Warhammer at the time, but I don't know if the Black Coach was assigned to one back then. I know my model didnt come with one and I got is sealed. What do you think? Does it matter?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 06:59:46 PM
The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 07:06:11 PM
Ok thanks I can jerry-rig one then. Prob for the best. The monster base is awfully wide. Too wide.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 07:18:25 PM
Uh, yes, my mistake that should be 50x150mm.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 10:05:57 PM
The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).

I think you should use a chariot base, and you will need to cut the horses off their slotta bits to make it all fit. If you keep them in their slotta’s, you will need a monster base and another cavalry base to get all 4 wheels on a base. The black coach is LONG.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 11:10:09 PM
Yeah I don’t think everything will fit on a chariot base no matter what I do. I was anticipating not using he slots for the horses too. Either I extend the chariot base with a single cavalry base sideways, or extended it with a 50mm square base. The thing is I prefer that it fits as nicely as other chariots fit on their bases, so not so big and not so small.

Btw, are you guys basing your artillery? I have a single 75mm-50mm base which is perfect for the Great Cannon, but I don’t know what it was originally for and I am not finding any units that would have used it. It’s a GW base tho.

The thing is that basing the artillery is a double sword... the machine looks like it’s part of a diorama, but the crew doesn’t always fit well on it or near it, and I def don’t want to attach them to the machine’s base.

I figure if I am basing everyone else I might as well do them too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 12:57:05 AM
Ok I created a flickr account and I hate it. Might move on to something else soon, but in the meantime... here is a quick pic of my collection:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427094057_49ff03f0fa_z.jpg)

The great thing about the battalion boxes is that they hold most of the army until and after I build them. And if I got an army in a starter set, I am just using the starter set, so not buying a High Elf Battalion set for example.

Edit: Oh yeah, while I am at it, here is the Runesmith I was talking about.

Now, when I got the Battle for Skull Pass and Ravening Hordes, I realized that the set came with 12 Dwarf Warriors and 8 Miners, which didn't make any sense to me. So I went shopping for a couple of more Miners to meet the 10 minimum, and was lucky to score three miners with their Standard Bearer on Ebay for cheap. I didn't have any use at the time for the Standard Bearer, but I got the idea later to try and convert the last miner into the Runesmith using part of the standard from the Standard Bearer, to make some kind of staff thing. I don't know what I was doing, but this is what I came up with. Oh I also swapped helmets with one of the left over warriors I had since I only wanted 10. I will eventually add some more bits left over from my Iron Breakers set when I figure out what I don't need. Maybe a shield or something slung over his back. With an axe of course.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427150696_aee087963c_k.jpg)

Anything to save a few bucks... go easy on me.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 01, 2019, 07:31:04 AM
You can use an old CD-disc to base war machines on. It should fit all models, and can serve as a reminder that war machines do not have flanks or a rear.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 11:13:30 AM
Oh wait, I have a band saw. I am just going to slice the monster base right down the middle length-wise, trim off the excess areas, and re-attach the pieces. The Black Coach itself will help anchor everything together giving it support! Will work on this this weekend and post some pics. I worry though 150mm might be too long.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 01, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
I love the Runesmith. Kitbashes like that are great fun.

125 is about right. 150 might be too long.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 05:33:51 PM
Thanks!

So I have decided to go with the absolute minimum unit size for all my armies based on Ravening Hordes. I hope this balances things out better. This means I have some shuffling around to do, because I want all of my units to have command models. I know this was raised a few posts ago about letting some units go without them, but because the 7th and 8th Starter sets all came with them, I don’t want some armies to have units with standards for example, and other armies not to. Even if it seems pointless, like with Empire Handgunners. And the truth is, I think the units look 1000 times better with a standard and so on than without. Especially when they are different. Really gives them character.

So looking over my Skaven, I am going to split the 2 20-model units into 4 10-model units. The only problem is that I don’t have extra command models for them, but I was lucky enough to find a bits seller on eBay who supplied me with 4 Clanrats and the gear to make the 2 Standards and 2 Musicians I need. I also picked up a single Plague Bearer to make a custom Plague Priest just for kicks. Also, since I can only have one unit of Stormvermin and I am knocking them down to 10, I picked up 10 Plaguebearers on sprues. I was debating buying a box of 20 from the WFB days but I am glad I didn’t. The bits seller really saved me some money.

And wherever in my lists I have 20 Skeletons or Zombies, they are going to be units of 10 now.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 02, 2019, 02:30:57 AM
Personally, I dont think its a great idea gameplay wise. Have said it a bunch. The Ravening Hordes were made before they understood the implication of the 6th edition ruleset compared to 5th. The elite armies will win almost all the time.

That said, are these armies going to go on display more than be played?
If so, do what you like! I know the photo before had boxes in a cupboard, but once they are painted if you put them on display or create some diaramas it will look great.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 02, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of space for displaying. I do have two curio-like cabinets in my home office that I use for displaying, but it’s stuffed with a ton of other stuff. Imagine how I am with WFB and throw in a couple of dozen other interests.

And the pic of the shelves show the bottom 3 shelves I installed in a closet. There are 7 shelves above it stuffed with a ton more crap including other games to old Japanese anime model kits.

My goal is to have a shitload to do when I retire.  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 02, 2019, 11:28:50 AM
What is an elite army anyway. If everything is assigned a point value, if a unit is worth twice that of another, then it should have half the number of troops... assuming that it’s all balanced, and I was told 6th + RH really was.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 02, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
I cannot recall anyone saying that about 6th + RH, although it may be correct compared to the 5th so-called Herohammer edition. From personal experience, I can say that the 6th edition as a whole (BRB + ABs) was fairly balanced. Indeed, I would argue that the main imbalance was how most special characters were priced (i.e. prohibitively expensive!). 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 04, 2019, 07:11:26 PM
I had some time today to work on my Black Coach base. Even though I don't plan on building anything for the Vampire Counts for a long time, I just wanted to get everything I need for when that time comes, and the base issue for the Black Coach was bothering me.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456129772_056b63c28f_z.jpg)

So would it be chopping up the 150mm by 100mm base to make a 50mm by 100mm base? Or could I just attached a cavalry base to the end of a chariot base and call it a day? Well, the cavalry base isn't quite the same width when lined up with the chariot base, and the model looks like it wouldn't fit anyway. So had to try modifying the monster base instead.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456131637_241ecef185_z.jpg)

I only have a couple of monster bases and decided to use the one in roughest shape for this in case I messed it up.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455977376_a8417ed6d0_z.jpg)

First I sliced it down the middle.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976806_f00579141c_z.jpg)

If you don't own a band saw, I highly recommend them. I have a Miter and Table saw as well, but I use the band for a ton of things.

After going down the middle, I trimmed more off from the inside. I want to keep the original sloped edges as nice as possible so it looks like every other base I have, so that is why I am doing this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456130142_81254137ee_z.jpg)

Here we are with the inside parts removed. Its pretty close to the chariot base in width, and at this point I figured I would just sand down rather than try trimming. Don't want to push my luck.

I glued together the halves with a mix of liquid model and super glue, and was amazed how well it bonded. I was afraid I would have to reinforce it from underneath it but really didn't want to. No one is going to see underneath it but me but it would drive me nuts. Then I filled the cracks with contour putty and sanded the line down.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976066_617894cb4a_z.jpg)

Not an exact match in width but I was like screw it. I didn't want to sand anymore. I put a light coat of paint on it to see if there are any major imperfections but I all looks pretty good.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976466_1ed897bcf5_z.jpg)

Not perfect, but nothing I do is. When I add some texture and paint it prob wont even know what I did. It feels solid and once the model is glued to the base, it will give it extra support. Very happy this all worked out pretty nicely.

In other news, I picked up the plastic set of Dark Elf Executioners/Black Guard of Naggarond. They weren't on my list of things to get but I saw the set and loved the Black Guard. I think the Dark Elves are a great looking army. If they would just get rid of that stupid skull. None of my models or banners will be displaying those skulls.

And I am not going to lie, given the stuff GW just listed on their site for last chance, and how quickly it all went... I am just grabbing anything I might find interesting at this point, and I prefer plastic over metal, even though there is plenty of metal on eBay.

Finally, I got the bits for the Skaven and it turned out the seller only had one standard, and I thought of using one of the incoming Plague Bearer ones, but I discovered that my Stormvermin came with two, so I used one of those. I cut off the banner-ish like thing coming off the back of the flag and sanded it down to make it different and less imposing than the Stormvermin one. Going to trim off more of the banner as it’s a lot bigger than the others. So here are my four Skaven Standard Bearers:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456144166_ccf9d62d37_z.jpg)

I should note that the Stormvermin banner was held in the left hand so couldn’t use that, since the figure has his left hand molded closed to the body to hold a shield. So I had to use a right hand holding a spear. I cut away the spear and attached the top and bottom part of the poles to the hand.

These f***ers insprired me to finish building the rest of the Skaven that came in Island of Blood. This set was supposed to be 3rd on the list and I am not even done with the first, the 6th starter, but as you can see, I am all over the place.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 08, 2019, 12:33:05 AM
Hi guys, some updates.

1) I got the Treeman model yesterday, and I was shocked how small the base is. I thought it was going on the 150mm by 100mm base, thinking it was a huge model, but it comes with a 75mm by 50mm one. So the model isn't as huge as I thought and I am excited about that. Prob still the biggest model I have for WFB.

2) I bought this lot on eBay:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48472865782_2353f636d6_z.jpg)

I was hoping to salvage some bodies for Mordheim gangs and Empire army. I hate how my Swordsman models turned out, and I am essentially using leftover parts from the older Empire sets. I actually bought the newer Swordsman/Spearmen/Halberd kit some time ago, but I didn't think the design of the models went with the figures I already had, which I prefered. Its like the older models are more medieval, and the newer ones are more renaissance. And the newer feathers... not crazy about them. I will admit there are a lot of really cool newer Empire character models, but I am just not crazy about most of the rank and file and their cockatoo feathers. That's why I sold it. But I thought if I could get enough of the newer bodies from this lot, replace their arms with the older ones, I would have something in the middle. And since the have a better WS than your average joe, they are slightly elite-ish, so they are getting slightly better gear.

So anyway I also noticed that there was a lot of crossbow men so I thought about making a crossbow unit if I could.

Plus it came with the Empire General's horse, which I was really looking for. I plan on putting the general I already made on it.

So whoever painted these was a maniac and soaked them in black spray paint and added a lot of thick paint I had a hard time stripping. This might be one of the hardest times I have had getting paint off plastic. I know I could have bought all these from GW, but the lot was only $25 so it was saving me some money. This will probably be the last time I buy models that need stripping. I am just so sick of it.

So after a stupid amount of work, here is what I salvaged:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48484392372_19ff0a1b6a_z.jpg)

Some are in pretty crappy shape and still need to be separated, but some I just wont use them. But I have enough to really build up my Mordheim gangs, and make the swordsman and crossbow units I wanted.

In addition to the original sprues that game with Mordheim, I have all this too (in better condition) from another lot I bought sometime ago:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48484237131_ebd36ae4f8_z.jpg)

Hopefully will finish assembling the swordsman this weekend and will post pics when I am done. Essentially old heads, old arms, and old shields on new bodies.

AND! While I wasn't crazy about the newer feather hats on my Empire army, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PERFECT FOR MY MARIENBURG GANG! Very excited!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 08, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Loving the progress you're making here, well done! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 09, 2019, 10:26:38 PM
Thanks!

I said I would work on the swordsman this weekend and I lied. I just finished assembling them.

I used the best three of the new swordsman bodies for my Reikland gang, and used the remaining for my Empire swordsman. I didn't take any pics during assembly, but they looked pretty good when primed. Unfortunately I was recycling arms and heads from the swordsman I made previously, which were already primed, and I didn't want to add too many coats so I have to glue pre-primed pieces and it was a lot of fun.  :icon_rolleyes:  Btw I hate the standard bearer... he looks like a douche. I used the very last of my parts to make him awhile ago, but now that I have some of those new bits I will make a new version of him.

Here they are with my Empire General and his new horse. I just finished cleaning and repairing that horse as well. What a mess that horse was.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499003452_7b58cc7aa9_z.jpg)

The shields do hide a lot of imperfections which is great. I have to be honest, I am stoked to use all leftover bits to make these guys, but had I known how important swordsman were in the beginning I prob would have used better parts. Nevertheless I hate waste and are happy I was able to even use these old shields that came in a lot some time ago, which I had no plans for. There is a mix of heads and I really try not to use the same head twice in a 10-man unit unless its wearing a helmet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48498830406_593e0945f3_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499333527_d4d2d792e8_z.jpg)

Now the General I am really happy with. When I first decided to get into Warhammer, the first starter set I got was 6th. I liked the options to make the captain (with the hat and with the helmet), but was bothered I didn't have the parts to make the same guy on a horse as well as on foot. My thought was, what if my general gets off his horse? At the time I didn't know the horse just improves your save. And when I asked about riders (at the time we were discussing monsters), I asked what happens to the rider if the monster is killed? You replace him with a foot soldier or something. Well, f--- that. That doesn't do it for me. I decided that all my army commanders would have the identical model on foot if I also had him on a mount. So this means tracking down additional parts and so on, like 2 High Elf Nobel sets, etc. So far its worked out nicely. For the Empire, I wanted my general based on this guy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48498830606_a12b276a6b_n.jpg)

Who is on the side of the starter set.

So I got as many of the Empire command sprues as I could get. I also used the leftover parts to make the Captain looking guy on the horse on the back of the box, both on a mount and on foot. Don't know why I had to do this. I guess I like giving my armies a story, or having extra models for different scenarios and such. Anyway, I was really glad to get this horse, as while I liked the one that came in the starter a lot, it was also the same one I was using for my Captain and Knight Champion, and wanted something that really stood out.

So my General, on mount and on foot. Will attached the shields at some point.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499002917_385fbd1f4e_z.jpg)

I had to remove some of the saddle to get him to fit due to his coat. His coat also covers up some blemishes the guy before me made.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 10, 2019, 12:32:23 AM
I've always liked that kind of idea, congrats! :icon_cool: :::cheers::: :eusa_clap:

And the swordsmen look good too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 10, 2019, 06:58:52 PM
Thanks!

I am moving right along. Here are the crossbowmen:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505064026_d2e77c29fb_z.jpg)

These are the last of my Empire bits from what I had prior and then from that auction I won that I mention above. These are probably the lamest figures I have, but not bad considering they come from leftover bits. I still have some gaps to fill as you can see. I also only have so much flashy bits and I am saving those for my last unit, the Halberdiers. I figured these guys are like the least talented of the bunch and that us why they have been relegated to crossbows, so I left them as basic as I could.

I have to be honest, since my Handgunners are move or fire, and so are these, I am thinking a unit of bowmen would have been a more superior choice since they can move and fire.

On my list of things to do is finish off my Empire Knights (I actually did these first a while back, but made from a lot that someone else assembled and did a crappy job and I did the best that I could, but I ended up getting a ton of more parts in mint shape so going to to some part swapping), the Halberdiers, Great Cannon, Mortar, Wizard, and Captain, and that will be it for my Empire army. After that I plan on finishing my Orcs.

Speaking of Orcs... I bought the Rock Thrower. I didn't even need it but I got it for a good price. Like the crossbowmen, I guess its a nice to have. I am sure it will look nice on the gaming table.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 10, 2019, 10:15:18 PM
Yes! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 11, 2019, 10:34:22 PM
I might have mentioned that the seller who sold me the Dwarf Gyrocopter sent my item late and threw in a couple of Dwarf sprues to make up for it. I thought I might be getting 10 dwarves, but they must be older ones since they had 4 dwarves each, and was incomplete, only giving me 6. I’ve decided to use these guys as the base for a Mordheim Dwarf treasure hunter gang.

That being said, when I organized my collection, I decided to finish off assembling my Battle of Skull Pass Set. I finished the dwarves some time ago but was having a hard time psyching myself up to finish the goblins. Well, I know I said I would concentrate on the Empire but just knocked off everything that came in that set. Welcome to my world. I have to admit I am not a crazy fan for either army, but the 7th edition set is a nice starter. Was this popular when it was released?

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 12, 2019, 12:44:40 AM
It was for many reasons.
The price was great for the number of models. Night goblins were pretty decent chaff in 7th edition IMO.
For a time, it was the only place you could get plastic dwarf miners.
Buy two boxes, one takes all the goblins, the other all the dwarves and you had a decent based of an army.

It also lended itself VERY nicely to a starter set for converting all the models into a chaos dwarf army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 12, 2019, 12:54:24 AM
The goblins could be added to the orcs from the 6th edition set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 12, 2019, 11:06:59 AM
The goblins could be added to the orcs from the 6th edition set.

Correct. Which is actually what our friend here has done.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 12, 2019, 02:29:29 PM
Yeah that was my initial plan, but now I have enough to field 1000 point armies for both. I keep buying Orc stuff even though I don't need it.  :eusa_wall:

Speaking of which, does anyone have a couple of plastic Orc Arer boys I can buy? I only need two. They are for Mordheim.

I can't emphasize enough how much the Battle of Skull Pass influenced my approach to collecting WFB. The make up of the armies set the template for how I went out for all the others. And it wasn't until I started getting the Battalion sets, and the fact they included more points each then the armies that came in Skull Pass, did I move on to setting the army size to 1000 (even though I have obviously gone past that for some armies). But for the most part, units size, command models, etc, everything I am doing is modelling after that set so everything is consistent. And I am using everything, unlike the 8th set, where I am not using the High Elf Griffon (its just a nice to have).

And I love terrain. I know Skull Pass doesn't include much but I think it adds a nice touch and goes a long way when you are first getting started. I actually don't like starter sets that do not include terrain. Even if they are cardboard, just include something. But I am happier going with less troops and some meaningful walls or something to block LOS than to just have a bunch of models and to leave all that up to me. But I also know I am a minority in this matter.

Also, I want to be sure I am doing the right thing here. I didn't realize that my Longbeards come with the option for hand weapon/shield or great weapon. I thought the models were just great weapons and RH only has the hand weapon/shield option. But I also have the Iron Breakers, who have hand weapons/shields too. So do my warriors. The Longbeards can be build as Hammerers, and they have great weapons too, and are in RH as well. Not crazy about the Hammerer models, but they are different. A lot of Dwarf stuff looks the same. The Miners have great weapons too tho. Is that too many great weapons for the size of my army? Some of my armies don't have any great weapons and I would be giving two units in my Dwarf army those weapons.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 12, 2019, 02:49:00 PM
Yes, terrain can be a nice touch to a starter set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 13, 2019, 02:02:14 AM
Okay so I mentioned that one of my standard bearers looked like a douche, and I wasn't crazy about some of the selection of heads for some of my crossbowmen, so I decided to try and do something about it and moved some heads around. One of the things I just did has me pretty excited.

This is a leftover Knight Champion head, with his head trimmed down, with a hat and feather I made from bits.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48524898687_469e41c05c_c.jpg)

I intended it to be for one of my standard bearers, but it turned out his hat wouldn't fit properly with the flag in the way, so I swapped out one of the swordsman heads and put that head on the standard bearer's body. I love the new swordsman. Prob should have put the head on the champ, but he's just a line guy. Second row as a matter of fact. And on one of my least favorite bodies too lol. Pretty happy things have turned out.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48524793031_133e49b153_c.jpg)

Recipe:

1) New Empire Swordsman body
2) Empire Knight Champion head
3) Old Empire hat and feather
4) Old Empire Swordsman arms
5) Old Empire Shield
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 13, 2019, 07:11:11 AM
Looks suitable! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 13, 2019, 11:20:07 PM
Guys, does this guy look stupid or too over the top?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48532133332_2245c4d950_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48531980086_3fd52f2fd0_c.jpg)

I am using these guys as a template:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48532133277_8794dd0b23_c.jpg)

I am trying to mimic the crossbowman with the big feathers. I took the part from the command sprue.

I am struggling to decorate this guy up a bit. He is my unit champion. I don't want to do too much as he's running a group that isn't flashy itself, but on the other hand I want him to stand out as the champion he is. I don't have a lot of options though. I do have a smaller feather piece I could use. The two feather piece for the flat hats. I could use that instead... what do you think?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 14, 2019, 08:28:29 AM
I think he looks great. The skirt / kilt and armoured legs will make him standout when painted. The head and feathers are fairly standard and interchangeable depending in the unit you are making. Considerng the rest of the crossbowmen there aren’t a lot of feathers, I think its fine.

I like that you had inspiration though from the heraldry book!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 14, 2019, 10:37:32 AM
The skirt and armored feet have him looking different than the one pictured, but I like him anyway! :icon_biggrin:

I've always enjoyed the heraldry book, and it does have plenty for inspiration. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 14, 2019, 10:48:00 AM
Excellent! I could take a cross bolt honourably from such soldier 😺
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 14, 2019, 01:09:50 PM
Excellent! I could take a cross bolt honourably from such soldier 😺

LOL!

Okay then I will leave it. I was totally prepared this morning to read 'get rid of it'.

Yeah that book is awesome. I am using it as a reference for my Reikland and Middleheim gangs too. I can't want to show you guys what I am doing with my Reikland mercs.

I am going with Talabheim for my Empire army. Main reason I guess is that I am influenced by GW. Easy for me to get references. While I like Altdorf color scheme more, my Bretonnians are going with the blue/red scheme, and I don't want two armies being the same. I really don't like working with white or red, but its very different than all my other armies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 17, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
Ok, remember when I said I bought those 10 Skaven Plague Monks? And I picked up that extra body bit? Well, I made my Plague Priest today.

The official GW one:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561756101_f66bb34ceb.jpg)

And mine, made from leftover bits I don't need from my Plague Monk sprues:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561898237_d0049c2170_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561755941_f42d491b27_z.jpg)

I think the GW one is supposed to have some kind of Morning Star or Flail thing, so I know my staff thing doesn't look like it, but based on the bits I had and the shape of the chain, I did the best I could. Hey, its either $26 for the GW one, or $2 for what I just did. He's just going to have to use what he's got and hope for the best.

So here is my Skaven command, debating how they are going to set fire to my 6th starter containing my Empire troops.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561895847_0a423872bd_z.jpg)

Also, when I took the Plague Monk stuff out of my box, I set some models on the floor. One of my dogs, who loves to jump vertically crazy high, jumped up and body slammed my custom Skaven Standard Bearer I recently finished (previous page), breaking the standard from the hand, and sending the custom index finger I made off to who knows where. I did some minor surgery, and also cut down more of the banner to differentiate it from the Stormvermin one more, but I don't have it in me to make it as perfect as I had before. Dammit!

Bad dog!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 19, 2019, 11:17:42 PM
Pets and miniatures can make less than good pals. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 19, 2019, 11:46:16 PM
I'm supposed to be working on my Empire army, right?

Here's my new Goblin Big Boss.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580120141_f7f5f3a6f8_z.jpg)

I didn't know this model existed until a few days ago, and I am happy to have him. I didn't like my previous plan. My 1000 point army is a little short on points so I thought I would get a second Big Boss, but hoped I could find one more intimidating than the one that came with the Battle of Skull Pass. Unfortunately, while cleaning off the flash I clipped off a little piece from his head which turned out to be his ear, so I had to scratchbuild another, and in attaching it, put a little too much glue around the area and loss some detail. Ugghh. I may bath him in some thinner and start over, but attaching the ear was a pain in the ass.

So my Goblin heros:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580263537_31591508bb_z.jpg)

Now I know in posting these pics no one is going to be impressed until they are painted, but that is some time off. I prefer to have an army all assembled and primed before breaking out a brush. And these Goblins are supposed to be 4th in line in the list of things to do. The Skaven above are 6th! I just can't focus.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 12:47:50 AM
Okay I spent some time trying to sand down the ear some, and put a light coat of ink around it to see what kind of details there were. I think its okay, but I can't help but think every time I look at this mini, I am going to stare right at his ear.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580615552_a7e48ee455_z.jpg)

Someone tell me to either sink him in thinner and start over to tell me he is fine.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 01:32:46 AM
I just dropped him in thinner. He’s too important of a model to have a fucked up ear. Will work on this in a couple of days.

Dammit!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 02:17:01 PM
I have this vampire leading my vampire counts army:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREoS0reCjIplaZjAqZZfqtwL4Q-ukbMOMPAJ3h8QOVNStblFRy)

Can anyone tell me what that giant spike is coming off his shoulder? I hate it. Thinking about cutting and sanding it down to something much smaller.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 20, 2019, 03:15:46 PM
I imagine it is used when he plays Blood Bowl.  Shoulder down, and full speed ahead!  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 22, 2019, 12:58:46 AM
lol it does seem far more appropriate for Bloodbowl…

I mean, seriously, the weight of that spike should cause him to fall over. Or at least drag a foot when he walked.

I fixed my Goblin. I guess it might be hard to tell from the photos but its a huge improvement. I just used a small piece and less glue to attach it. Will sand it a bit more to shape it.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48596135471_c70ac424be_z.jpg)

Moving on!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 22, 2019, 10:44:34 AM
These guys are looking great!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 12:54:39 PM
Thanks!

So remember my dog breaking my Skaven Standard Bearer? Well, it turns out he also landed on a Skaven foot solder, bending him over but luckily not breaking him, which was easily fixed, but also, he broke one of my Elf Sea Guard, who came broken but I fixed him previously.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48603662647_a917aa3bf3_z.jpg)

The piece from the spear... That was broken already when I opened the box, and I made a new piece by adding a piece of plastic like you see in place now, and sanded it down to take shape. It actually turned out nearly perfect. So for all the things to break, I have to do this all over again. And its time consuming, as there isn't much holding the plastic to the spear, so I have to go slow. Ugghh.

I swear, two steps forward and one step back. I just want to be done with this box set already!

Also, I have some big news I should be able to share next week. Its a special Projekt I am putting together, but I don't want to reveal anything until just about everything is in place. I imagine some of you will think its pretty cool, some stupid, and some will just be confused as to why I would bother. But I am pretty excited so stay tuned.

And no, it has nothing to do with the 6th Starter set, nor 7th and 8th, which I should be working on.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 23, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
One step at a time is a good policy. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 07:28:18 PM
I have a question about Bretonnian Knight Lances.

RH says that they form into a wedge like

   []
 [] []
[] [] []

And so on. So for this reason I gave my unit 6 knights. But what if I only had 5? Would I remove the middle Knight in the third row, and leave the last two on the wings? Or line them up behind the second line like:

  []
[] []
[] []

Thanks
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
That is incorrect. The Lance formation forms up in ranks of three models wide. So, a lance of 6 Knight would be in two ranks of three models, and, as usual, casualties would be taken from the last rank.

Who is RH?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Padre on August 23, 2019, 08:44:13 PM
The Lance formation used to be like that in some early version of the rules I vaguely recall. I cannot remember which exactly as I have been playing since first edition in 1983. I suspect it was third edition.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 10:08:52 PM
The Lance formation in wedge form still existed in the 5th edition, but from the 6th edition onwards, the current version was in play.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
And if you are playing the 5th edition wedge: if you have not enough knights to fill a whole rank, you place the available models on the edges, and leave gaps in the middle (the same when removing casualties).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 11:15:31 PM
This is what it says in Ravening Hordes:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48608393793_3a04362f1f_z.jpg)

I do have a pdf of the 6th edition Bretonnian Army book, but the lance they describe in there is different.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 24, 2019, 02:23:15 AM
While you guys are chewing on the Bretonnian rules, here are my Orc heros.

Like my other armies where I have a mounted hero, I have a version of him on foot.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48609322978_f6cc421fa6_z.jpg)

I know you've seen this guy before. Nothing special. I am on the fence about his facemask. While I like it, I also like seeing the face...

And my Big Boss with another on foot, and a Shaman. I love the Shaman model.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48609685021_1798026a5b_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 24, 2019, 02:33:19 AM
No face mask gives a good show of their character for fantasy. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 24, 2019, 07:02:56 AM
I do have a pdf of the 6th edition Bretonnian Army book, but the lance they describe in there is different.

Why, yes. When I was talking about editions, I meant the ABs. The 6th edition BRB was a major change compared to the 5th edition BRB, and Ravening Hordes was released [just after the 6th edition BRB] to provide 15 initial "Get You By" Army Lists, which replaced all 5th edition AB, up and until the respective 6th edition Army Books came out.
So, from the 6th edition Bretonnia AB (February 2004), the current system was in place - which is not surprising, as there has not been another Bretonnia AB since.   
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 24, 2019, 03:10:12 PM
Ravening Hordes describes the 5th edition method.

Like Fidelis mentioned, its the middle model in the back that is not placed - you still have models on the left and right.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 27, 2019, 02:52:38 AM
Ok thanks! I am going to make a lance shaped movement tray for them.

I mostly fixed my Elf's spear. Have a little shaping to do. Hope this doesn't happen a third time.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627090431_96caf12239_z.jpg)

Also...

******************************************
!!! BIG NEWS ALERT !!!
******************************************

So I came up with this idea a few weeks ago, and things went in motion pretty quickly because some great auctions came along and I pounced. But I wanted to wait till everything was in place before mentioning it.

I am building a pure Gnoblar/Hobgoblin army. Well, a 700 point one, so a small one.

I am using Ravening Hordes, but leaving out the Chaos Dwarves.

I had planned some time ago to use some leftover Gnoblars to put towards a Chaos Dwarf army, but I can't get into the Chaos Dwarves at the moment. Maybe some day. But in the meantime for some reason I like the Gnoblars and thought I would try to do something with them, as I liked reading about them in the Ogre Kingdoms army book.

So looking over the Ravening Hordes list, I didn't have a lot of options:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072946_b0421a477e_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072871_9a4e3451da.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627219017_4cff31411f.jpg)

And worse the plastic Gnoblars don't come with a lot of options. But some of the models got me thinking.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627811026_e75d0dac47_z.jpg)

Looking over the lists, I decided I could do a few things. With a third Gnoblar set, I would have a total of 72 figures. Enough for 7 10-Gnoblar units and 2 figures for bosses. But I didn't have many weapon options except for what came on the models. I then stumbled on a couple of auctions that changed everything.

First was a semi complete unit of 10 Goblin Wolf Riders, who I could use as Hobgolin Wolf Riders. I didn't get all the parts to make Goblins, but I didn't need them. All I needed was the legs, wolves, and shields.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072706_6d8ee1195d_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48626725178_9b6ebbb699_z.jpg)

But then! I found this lot of Goblin junk!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072601_f221eb9d1d_z.jpg)

I couldn't make out all that was included but I was just hoping for enough parts for 10 bows. Turns out I have many, many more and lots of other goodies.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627219312_202f0c5e6d_z.jpg)

Some of this stuff I don't recognize either. But the point is I have some parts to make standards, musicians, extra weapons, and so on.

So the plan is this... I am going to kitbash a couple of Hobgoblin heros.

Then I am going to break up the Gnoblar models by weapons to make the following units:

1 unit of 10 Gnoblars with weapon and shield (I have enough of these guys in the Gnoblar set but will customize)
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars on Wolves with weapon and shields - Might add bows. Probably should add bows.
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars with bows (using parts above)
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars as Sneaky Gitz (using the guys with two hand weapons and some other customizing)
and then 3 units of Gnoblars with whatever is left. Basically just a hand weapon and that's probably it. Fills out the 72 models I have.

Of course, all with champs, standards, and musicians. As a matter of fact, if I can't make enough standards, I am going to use the guys who are pigging backing as standards, like they didn't have enough to make one so they did that instead.

Its a shame the lists don't offer spears... cause I got a ton of the goblin ones in that auction.

I also picked up a set of these:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627461813_f04a03f26b_z.jpg)

to spice things up.

I will juice up a couple of positions with those random Gnoblars, or use those to make a crew for the Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower that just arrived. Not sure I want to use the Hobgoblin crew since they dont really match the Gnoblars.

To make the wolfriders, I am literally going to be cutting the Gnoblars in half and attaching the torsos to the Goblin legs, and then it will be a lot of work cutting off various arms to attach the bow arms, and then sanding everything down to look as natural as I can get it. The Gnoblars are really skinny and parts aren't a perfect match, but they are such pathetic little creatures I am not sure its going to make a big deal.

So no wizard or shaman. No elite units or tough units at that. Totally expect these guys to get steamrolled, but that is okay. I am totally into this for the theme and for the fun. And of course I can use many of these down the line with the Ogres and Chaos Dwarves. I really do not like the old Hobgoblin figures, and the Gnoblars seem to be the new versions of them, so thought this would be cool.

Also, I am excited that I have some Goblin torsos in the wolfriders set so I can add a couple of goblins to my Mordheim Orc gang. So everything worked out beautifully.

What do you guys think? Insane?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 27, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldn’t be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 27, 2019, 01:24:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cePMMZA.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 27, 2019, 03:00:41 PM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldn’t be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 27, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldn’t be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
I believe there are 6 mounted crossbow men somewhere in the project list. (We have not forgotten)

@KTG17 : just having them is great. When you get overloaded on one project you can relax with another.

Edit: forgot to mention. Gnoblar army is a great idea. Would love to see that come to fruition
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 28, 2019, 02:46:25 AM
Thanks...

Well, it turns out that hoards o bits seller seemed to forget the whole reason I made an order from him in the first place: the Gnoblars! I have no idea if I will ever get them. What a shame. I really wanted a few figs in different poses.

 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:

Dammit!!! It’s cause I told you all about my plans too soon! Should have kept it secret and instead I jinxed it.

Fire Truck!!!! - Warlord mod
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 28, 2019, 12:30:31 PM
Keep hunting and you'll find them.  Gnoblars are small wee folk, and good at hiding! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on August 28, 2019, 03:48:49 PM
I am sure I have some mounted crossbow figures somewhere in the deep dark recesses of a cupboard ... ... ...

Maybe I should find them and model them, and paint them up.

#Crossbow Shaming      :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Novogord on August 29, 2019, 05:37:28 AM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldn’t be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
More then I have finished :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 29, 2019, 11:46:05 AM
It appears I have fallen into the infamous Warhammer Fantasy Trap, which I was forewarned about. I thought I would be strong, not weak. I set a 700 point limit, then 1000, then just ditched the limit. Now I am just making up armies that don’t need to be made. AND NOT GETTING THE PARTS THAT I AM ORDERING. Oh and the seller isn’t even responding. Total mofo.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 02, 2019, 10:15:51 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Dwarf Hammerers. . .

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48668084462_b56ce1c0e2_z.jpg)

Interestingly enough, when I originally got the box set, it was for the Longbeards. But then I realized that the Longbeards looked like the rest of all of my dwarves (especially my Iron Breakers), and I also think it was mentioned here that GW killed them off in a later edition (correct me if I am wrong), so I started looking at doing the Hammerers. I have to be honest, their look didn't do much for me, especially their helmets, but then I realized that would set them apart from the rest so decided to do them instead. Glad I did I love their look now they are all assembled. They were a pain in the ass to assemble.

So all that is left to finish for my 1000 point army are the Iron Breakers! That is, if I ever get around to doing them.

I haven't looked into it yet... but if the Miners have great weapons, and the Hammerers have great weapons... what's the difference? Ah... WS. Cool.

Oh, and it should be noted that I took the advice and got a set of the plastic Night Goblin Fanatics. The set of three. So I think I am done buying for those guys too.

Oh part 2, I do also have that Dwarf Gyrocopter to build too.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 03, 2019, 04:42:36 PM
I have a question about Army Battle Standards. The rules for them and magic banners refers to the unit, which I am assuming that it might join. What about if it is attacked on its own? Do the rules apply to just the single banner carrier?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 03, 2019, 04:58:40 PM
A BSB on his own is, just like any character on his own, also a unit.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 03, 2019, 05:08:29 PM
Okay thanks! I've been giving Army Standards a thought...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 03, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
In the 6th edition, he is not as valuable as in the 8th, where he allows re-rolls of all Leadership tests. Also note that, if he takes a magic banner, he cannot take any magic items, and, in the 6th edition, he cannot take any mundane equipment either, except for L/H/FP armour and barding for his steed.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 02:36:06 AM
You know what, I am going to do it. I am going to make the second hero I have for each army a Army Standard Bearer, where they are allowed (I noticed the option isn't there for Lizardmen in RH). I magically already have much of what I need from earlier purchases and what I have coming in the mail. Just a few armies I will have to do some shopping for.

ALSO! I was looking over my stuff for Mordheim, and the great thing about Mordheim is that I can pull models from my WFB collection to add to my gangs. I want my initial 8-10 gang members to be purely 'Mordheim', but imagine I can borrow the Troll from Skull Pass for my Orc gang, or one of my Rat Ogres from Island of Blood for the Skaven, etc etc. Well, one thing I realized is that I wish I had more Zombies for my Undead gang. The box set only comes with 5.

However, looking over the sprues (from Mordheim and my Vampire Counts Battalion) I noticed I have 8 heads on each of the 5 total Zombie sprues that I have for a total of 40, and more arms than I need. Well, you remember all those loose figs I got awhile back that I got for my Swordsmen and Crossbowmen? Well I have a ton of bodies left from that and others in crappy shape (I only used the best ones for my Empire army and Mordheim Reikland and Marienburg gangs). So with 25 legs and torsos from the Zombie sprues, I am going to use the leftover various Empire bodies to make 15 more Zombies, for a total of 40, so that I will have a total of 10 Zombies for Mordheim, and now 30 for the Vampire Counts! I love when a plan comes together.

Amazing how shit works out sometimes. Really, really trying to find a use for everything as well as save here and there so I can buy a few of the more pricer stuff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 04, 2019, 07:06:11 AM
Lizardmen can take a BSB - and he is much better than the normal one. You can upgrade a Slann Mage Lord or Priest to BSB, who can take a magic banner in addition to other magic items, and he can be the General as well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Oh wow you are right, the only problem is I am not building big enough armies to field Lords. Strange every army has battle standards for heros but the Lizardmen. I wonder why this is.

So I guess no BSB for my Lizardmen. I am not going to 2000 points!!!








!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 01:57:56 PM
Look at what I just found:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48677417317_7abe2e0b2e_z.jpg)

Remember that base I made for the Black Coach? Well, we were debating the size for it and it looks like GW mounted theirs on a pretty wide one. It looks like a custom one based on the height of the sides, compared to the other bases around it. I am guessing its about 75mm wide? This is from the 6th edition army book btw. And btw, I did see a list of base sizes for models and the official base was a chariot base which we all know wouldn't be big enough.

Not that I am going to redo mine, but had I seen this before, I prob would have made mine wider. And lately the size of what I made is bothering me, since it came out a little wider than the official chariot base, so I thought I would just run it down through the saw again which would prob be enough. Guess it doesnt really matter.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 06, 2019, 03:08:31 AM
Okay super excited to share this.

So as I am collecting for WFB, I am also collecting for Mordheim. I am trying to make warbands for all those listed in the (2nd edition?) rulebook (including the Dwarves and Orcs). So as I am buying up models for WFB, I am keeping an eye out for what I might be able to use for a warband. For example, all those second hand Empire models I got, some of them are going towards a Reikland Warband.

Well, once I got that haul of Goblin junk and Wolf Riders, I decided to add Goblins to my Orc warband. Its taken me a bit to get the right parts together for the Orcs though, and after getting the Warboss/Battle Standard kit, I am using some of those parts for my warband. I just love the chest piece with the wolf skin. Prob would look cool as a standard bearer, but since I want to make an identical foot/mounted bearer, and I only have one of these torsos, I think it makes for an amazing gang leader.

So anyway, here are the parts I am using for my warband so far. I was going to just use the shields that came in the Orcs regiment box, but that would not only have left me short, but also kinda repetitive, and I really want my warband figs to be different from my army guys, so I picked up some Savage Orc shields which I love.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48686446767_7bc617d61f_z.jpg)

So at the top is the Big Boss. To the upper left my Big Un, who I am still deciding on what to arm with. He's going to be the psychopath of the group, so I want the model to show that. I will prob give him one of those Orc face plate pieces. Then two boys with swords and shields, and 2 arrer boys. I know these are small groups, but I don't want to make a huge warband and I am still going to include 2-3 goblins (don't know how I will equip them yet - prob spears and shields).

I am planning on adding a Shaman, but not sure which model to use. I don't want to use the one from my WFB Orc army, even if I love the figure. It just doesn't look warband-ish enough for me.

I am some ways from assembling these and painting them. Kinda just getting all the parts I need as I go.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 06, 2019, 01:20:53 PM
I should add too that I am basing my warbands off the template of GW's pre-packaged warbands like the Witch Hunters and so on, where there is a leader, a champ or two, then a unit of 3 guys, and another with 2, with some exceptions like the Skaven and Undead. And of course, the 500 point starting limit. Marienburg will be a little bigger as they get to start out at 600.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 07, 2019, 12:39:43 AM
Guys I need help. I got my Night Goblin Fanatics today. Love them. Don't know how I put getting these guys off. I guess it was getting them for $9 that did it for me. Anyway, I got them on the sprue without the instructions, and aren't sure how to assemble them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48691074272_525cc4bf53.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690906461_a89959bf20.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690566643_0c02f660a2_n.jpg)

You see how some of the models have a second ball coming off their side? Well one of the models has it attached to the model already, and its obviously attached to the greater chain. However the others don't have an obvious spot on the model to place them. Looking at the demo models, one looks like it comes off his belt, but I am not sure. Has anyone put these together, or know what the second ball is for? The model on the actual box doesn't have one, so I am not sure if this is an option, or each model should have two of them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 07, 2019, 03:07:57 AM
Maybe the pictures on the box might help?  Oh, and glue. :icon_wink: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 07, 2019, 04:19:32 AM
Well the pics don’t show what’s going on on the back of the model.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 09, 2019, 10:49:07 AM
I had 2 boxes of them, and never put a second ball at the waist - didn’t even realise it was a thing! :blush:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 09, 2019, 12:28:47 PM
I had 2 boxes of them, and never put a second ball at the waist - didn’t even realise it was a thing! :blush:

Lol - the same 👆 never realized until reading your thread. I think that may be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
I am going to call GW later today and ask them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 09, 2019, 02:20:29 PM
By the way, I like what you're doing with the Orc Warband.  What kit or where did the shields come from?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 02:58:46 PM
The auction said 'Savage Orcs Boar Boyz'

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-BIN-BITS-SAVAGE-ORC-BOAR-BOYZ-5x-SHIELDS/352768463151?epid=1685951954&hash=item5222a3912f:g:sscAAOSwTBtdZCM-

they are still available!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 03:34:07 PM
Okay I called GW USA. Worthless.

So I called GW UK, and while they do not have the instructions for the older kits, he understood what I was asking and called it a counterweight that attaches to his belt. So just have to find a place on the model where I like it.

Interestingly enough, the old models didn't have this, nor do the new ones, so I prob could get away with not adding it, because its kind of a fragile looking link that I will no doubt break some day.

I just found this pic online btw.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/3549/3796048539_3463e1ddeb.jpg)

There is a model with one already attached, but it goes under his arm and it wasn't obvious what it was attached to (the belt or chain to the big ball).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 09, 2019, 07:21:45 PM
I wonder what the story is on these in between addition?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 12:53:59 AM
No idea... I just got here.

Okay I have a huge update. And I am a little ashamed. And embarrassed to admit that you guys knew this was coming, I said it wouldn't, and I folded.

So some history here...

So you know this guy? He came in the Island of Blood set:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48713849088_e8e9ab9f39_z.jpg)

Well, I figured my games would never be big enough to use him, but I figured I would keep him, and base my Elf General on him, so I bought a couple of Noble sets and came up with this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48713848438_2dfb6f7bcf_z.jpg)

And over time, it was fine. But then looking it over one night, I wasn't crazy about the helmets being different. I thought that maybe if I had reversed the wings on the helmet, it might look more like the guy on the Griffon, and even went shopping for new bits to make new heads. The problem was they were kinda pricey, and I thought, "Why not just buy a couple of the actual guy on the Griffon and just use those heads and be done with it?" and that is what I did.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714179236_4ac007301f_z.jpg)

So I got two heads and will be replacing my General's heads with these. And the other noble will be the Army Standard Bearer as it was originally intended, as I have decided to go that route for all the armies.

So then, I was left with two Griffons. I checked RH to see who else could use one, and it turns out the Empire Lords can use them too. So remember this guy?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499002917_385fbd1f4e_z.jpg)

Well, using some leftover bits I made:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714178941_379f505164_z.jpg)

I have to be honest, the skirt gave me a lot of problems, and I am not happy with it. It would probably be good enough, but more on that in a minute. I did some good things, like was able to use the reins and even clipped the top part from the Elf fist and added it to the Empire one.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714178761_98200c6f7e_z.jpg)

However, around this time I got this guy:

(https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99120202011-0.jpg)

Mainly for parts for Mordheim, as I was dying to use the hat for my Marienburg captain. But I was going to use the other parts too. Like the standard for my Army Standard. But I was amazed how much I liked the parts. I said previously I wasn't crazy about the newer look of the Empire versus the more vintage stuff. But the look was growing on me, and I was irritated that I sold the one Empire State Troops box that I had.

Well, like 5min after this I find this on Ebay:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714312697_617e955af8_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146761_6abbeaceba_z.jpg)

Well I had no idea this set was even released, and if I could get it for a good price, I would be able to replace my Spearmen, Handgunners, and the Halberdiers I was working on. I actually like my Swordsmen, so I didn't think I would need to redo those (maybe do some head swapping). I do prefer the newer General over the older one I have been working on, and I just prefer everyone has the same look. The newer look has won me over, and to be honest, in the short time I have been doing this, I have realized that the vintage Empire stuff isn't aging that well as I work on the newer models from other armies. And I imagine when I get to the Dark Elves or Bretonnians it will get even worse.

But if I didn't win the set, this would be put to bed and I would just keep what I have.

Well, I won it.
























And I decided to go shopping.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146681_d0a82c194c_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146666_78101c75f5_z.jpg)

I don't even need the two above but the models rock and I just figured get them while I can. I am actually excited to get them.

And I got another Empire General set and some extra bits that I set aside for Mordheim. AND, since I have that extra Griffon (as I bought 2), I am going to do the same thing I did with my older General with the newer General by mounting him on the last Griffon. And since there is no skirt I am hoping it turns out better. Will post pics then done.

So its been a crazy week.

And this also means, that I have a Lord for the Empire and High Elf armies, and the Orc Wyvern is starting to look cool... I've always loved the Dark Elf Black Dragon, Grey Seers on Screaming Bells, or even the newer Lizardmen Slaan. I don't know, we'll see. I don't even know how powerful Griffons are yet, and if they stack up against some of these bigger models.

AND I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO 2000 POINTS!

Anyway, I am sure some of you are happy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 11, 2019, 01:39:47 AM
Welcome to the addiction that is Warhammer-Empire! :icon_mrgreen: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 11, 2019, 02:11:19 AM
2000 points for 6th edition is optimum.
But unit sizes need to be thought about properly :evil:

I am very happy you have greatswords. One of my favourite units.
And helblaster will add a lot of flavour to your empire army too. And hitting power. 6th ed helblaster was great.
I very much approve of this development!

You can easily bulk points out by taking a lord on big mount. This applies to all armies really.
If you have those big, beautiful models, its only a matter of time before you want to field them.

Remember, orcs and goblins can combine to make a 2000 pt army easy enough...
But you shouldn’t listen to us, we are the devil whispering in your ear! :evil:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 01:39:55 PM
2000 points for 6th edition is optimum.
But unit sizes need to be thought about properly :evil:

Yeah I know, but even though I am collecting extra figs, I think its more for the hobby sake and not game play. I still intend to keep games small in the 700-1000 point range.

Quote
I very much approve of this development!

Thanks, I figured you guys were mostly using the newer models at this point. I probably should have to, but I was trying to keep costs down and use the extra money for other things. I guess I bought all of those extra things now. I can't really upgrade the other armies, I have the more recent versions of all those battalion sets.

Now what do I do with all those older models? try to sell them? Incorporate them? Use them as a second Imperial Army? Maybe a rival city? I don't know. I HATE HAVING TOO MUCH STUFF.

Quote
Remember, orcs and goblins can combine to make a 2000 pt army easy enough...

Yeah I always imagined if I wanted to play larger games, I would just ally them up. Like 1000 Empire + 1000 Dwarf + 1000 High Elf vs 1000 Chaos Warriors + 1000 Beastmen + 1000 Daemons or something like that.

I really are more into variety than I am into bulk. That's mostly the reason I am keeping unit sizes small.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 11, 2019, 02:01:29 PM
By the way ... that 30 unit box set ... I picked one of those up a little ways back that I found on back shelf of a local hobby shop, what  a steal that was.  Good you found one of them too, and excellent little pick up, gives enough for a small block and a detachment, well done. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 02:11:26 PM
Yeah its great as it easily replaces what I have all in one go. It was just a matter of price. Buying those sets individually seems to run about $30 each these days, which I wasn't crazy about paying. I see it originally retailed for $45 based on the sticker on the box, and I paid a little over $60 with shipping. So 3 units for $20 each. I can live with that.

Had I not won it, I wouldn't have gotten the Greatswords nor the Volley gun. Its just once I was on board with the new style I was like might as well get it all, and I agree the Greatswords might be the best Empire models they made. A lot of character in those figures I am looking forward to building them.

I am curious though, their stats aren't great... and don't the great weapons mean you strike last? And with only light armor, don't these guys take huge casualties before they can hit back? Sorry buying models faster than I am learning the rules...  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 11, 2019, 03:48:09 PM
Yes, the Greatswords having a great weapon always strike last - except on the charge. Of course, in RH they only cost 5 points (6 with LA). In the later ABs , they have better stats, FPA, and are Stubborn - but cost 10-12 points (depending on the edition).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on September 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
I don't think there is any problem with mixing models.

If you are talking Ed.6 plastics against the newer Empire boxes a lot of us have both. They may not look too good in the same regiment, but if you keep the styles together in units then it is easily plausible that different states have different uniforms, and indeed budgets to equip troops.

Puffy sleeves come in all shapes and sizes.  :engel:

The actual weaponry - particularly shooting items like crossbows and handguns - are more noticeable, but again it's like a poorer province has Lee Enfield 303s and the richer ones can afford AK47s  :closed-eyes:

The Empire is all about diversity.
Stick 20 men in a line and you will have heights from 6'3 down to 5'6" and weights from 140lbs up to 210lbs.



Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 12, 2019, 04:38:06 AM
In your previous empire unit line up, you had very little hitting power. These guys on the charge will hit like a ton of bricks. They will add tactical flavour to your previously bland-ish empire line up.
I am less upset with your 10 model units if you have some greatswords in the army  :-)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 15, 2019, 06:17:17 PM
I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I finally finished assembling an army!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dwarves!!!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48738141653_b42e21ac31_z.jpg)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48738144173_2cbc2e7ca7_z.jpg)

HAHAHAHAHAHA

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48738648547_c9b350dbfc_z.jpg)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48738465426_7373aef126_z.jpg)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES!
 
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48738648212_4e5bd6e515_z.jpg)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Hahah... whoo....

So I love the Ironbreakers. Might be the best Dwarf models I have yet to see. I am on the fence about mounting the cannon on a stand, because you can see all the goodies I have added around it... I don't want those lose let alone lose them. I am just on the fence about it and if I do it for one, I will have to do it for everyone.

Also, I have decided to make my custom Runesmith a Army Battle Standard. So will make some tweaks to it after the parts I ordered come in. I am still interested in having a Runesmith, although I just might buy an actual model of one.

I have a ton of leftover bits to use for my Dwarf Treasure Hunter warband for Mordheim now too. Very excited.

I know I know, you chaps aren't going to be impressed until I actually start painting, but I wanted to wait till the armies were done being built before I started breaking out the paint.

I reckon the next army that will be finished are the Goblins. I only have a unit of River Trolls and an Battle Army Standard to do.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 15, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Dammit!!! I just realized I forgot to build the gyrocopter. AARRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 15, 2019, 07:12:39 PM
I actually would like to take a moment here and post how I feel about these Dwarves. I have to be honest, I wasn’t impressed with the molds for the models that came in Skull Pass, but I recognize that they are starter models. But even still Dwarves aren’t even in the top 50% of my favorite armies, and had I known I was going with 6th edition for rules, I eventually would have gotten the Dwarf battalion set, but it would have been low on my list of priorities. Since I wanted to knock out all of the starter set armies first, I was able to get an idea of what other models I’d like to add to them, and those other models are really what turned things for me. I have a much greater appreciation for Dwarves now and are even glad I have something like the Miners, who’s models have a lot of character, even if silly, but also not something I would have pursued buying had they not come in the starter set. So the point of all this is, that as I have gone down this WFB road for the first time, I am amazed at the surprises I keep finding as I explore each army. I have never felt the same for 40k.

Very cool.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 15, 2019, 07:33:50 PM
Congrats!!
It is a crazy feeling to have a completed army 😸
My dwarf contingent is the skull pass kit with som special characters thrown about
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 15, 2019, 09:21:08 PM
Congrats! :::cheers::: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 18, 2019, 12:09:08 AM
Well I got the Greatswords and Volley Gun and wow, what nice models. I knew they looked cool online, but in person they are even better. I can’t believe I tried to make do with all of the vintage Empire models.

Speaking of that, I was going to keep my old Swordsmen, but I realize that would be silly. I had intended to keep them, then use that new 30-man set to made a unit of Spearmen, Halberdiers, and Handgunners, but I am thinking of keeping the vintage Spearmen I have, maybe just doing some headswaps to update them, and use the new set to make Swordsmen, Halberdiers, and Handgunners, which I think will made nice models. I am not crazy about using the new models for Spearmen.

The only thing I am debating is shields. I love the vintage ones I made for the Swordsmen with the cross, and I was thinking of using them for my new Swordsmen. I feel like the newer shields are too small. We’ll have to see.

I was thinking of keeping my old models and maybe putting them towards a different Imperial faction. Different city or something. Then maybe have some Empire on Empire scrap.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 19, 2019, 02:39:30 PM
That is how it starts. :wink: 6th edition had an easy entry point with Storm of Chaos which provided alternative armylist for each army, even with new units too. Then you find you had 2 armies from each faction. In some cases, like you mention you then build an army for each province. In Skaven’s case, you build one for each clan. In vampires case you build for each vampire type. Chaos for each chaos god. Then you end up in the same hole as the rest of us! :happy:

Good to hear you are slowly meandering down our well worn path!


That said, yes, the 6th ed troop shields are WAY better than the tiny ones. I like the puffy 6th ed sleeves on the 7th ed bodies myself, rather than the 7th ed arms which lack puff. The 6th ed spearmen have great puff. 6th ed handgunners I have never really liked, though they have puff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 19, 2019, 02:58:53 PM
With imagination, there's always reasons for developing Imperial units from whatever figures and bits you have.

In the process of moving all my hobby things to a storage unit for organizing and moving in the direction of more hobby activity, I found more 6th edition Empire figures than I vaguely had recalled having.  I've got a battalion box that is only partially used (the militia detachment), a box of 20 halberdiers or swordsmen, a couple boxes of spearmen and handgunners, a box of crossbowmen, and of course a pair of militia kits, too.

Also, with the handgunners, I made a detachment of them from the 6th edition starter set, and although tricky to do, swapped up some of their heads with a knife and some glue.  Did that with the entire group of 20 spearmen as well.  These are of course from Averland. :icon_cool:

I got two unopened boxes of the 7th to 8th edition great swords, a box of pistoliers, and a box of huntsmen as well.

Keeping an eye out for more. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Padre on September 19, 2019, 09:30:42 PM
I have a Middenheim Empire army, and a pirate army, and an arabyan army, and a mercenary army (Tilean and Estalian) all of which can be fielded as legal Empire army compositions, some with counts-as troops, and some with some house rule tweaks. I even have a Cathayan 'halberdier' regiment with crossbow detatchments that I could throw in. All painted, all huge (and growing).

These are just the empire variants. I have many, many other armies, sme of which also have variants - like a vampire counts army, but also an un-dead pirate zombies army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 19, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
Sorry, if we are sharing empire variants, I have:
Hochland army
Stirland army
Reikland / Altdorf army
Middenhiem / Ulric army
Cult of Sigmar army
Mercenary army
Araby army
Beginnings of a Cathay army (not assembed, but pieces assigned)

Different models / ranges give each a distinct theme...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 19, 2019, 11:07:36 PM
Time for a new thread ... I feel it it coming on ...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 19, 2019, 11:20:56 PM
... there it is ... http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=53476.0  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 20, 2019, 11:40:47 PM
You guys are terrible, terrible influences... I am not going to 2000 points!

So I got my second (or third) Elven Lord on Griffon and I finished the heads I mentioned earlier.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48767115907_5ef7774e56_z.jpg)

Original on the left, mine on the right.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48766578703_86ce08ab95_z.jpg)

And both finished:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48766914956_fe9e8d89bd_z.jpg)

So now my Elven General has the same head whether he's on foot, on horse, or griffon.  :::cheers:::  I am super excited about this and I have to admit this is the biggest thing that has bothered me since I started collecting Warhammer Fantasy. It was pretty expensive to do too.

Will post pics when done. Will work on my NEW Empire General on Griffon after that.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 21, 2019, 11:40:53 AM
You could have always swapped the standard head on the griffin lord with something you had multiples of...
Too late now I guess!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 21, 2019, 01:19:39 PM
. . .

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 22, 2019, 10:09:21 AM
Sorry! Was just a random thought I had. That said, its a very good, fancy head!
Plus you get an empire griffon out of it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 23, 2019, 01:40:43 PM
YOU WILL BE SILENT!

Yes the extra griffons were cool. And to be honest, I do think the Griffon Lord's head is the best of all of them. So no regrets. Or regerts, as I see on the internet at times.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 23, 2019, 07:59:21 PM
Has anyone ever used Ravening Hordes with 7th edition? Or any 6th edition Army books with 7th? Does it break anything? I haven't even really read the 7th rulebook, so no real idea on the difference between it and the 6th rulebook.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 23, 2019, 09:15:20 PM
Well, when the 7th edition BRB came out, you had to use the 6th edition Army Books. That was the case for every edition - with the exception of Ravening Hordes. However, the 7th BRB was just a modification of the 6th, not a complete overhaul like the 8th, so there was no real problem. In fact, problems for the 7th edition started, because of power creep as the AB got published over time.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on September 23, 2019, 09:24:09 PM
I haven't used the combo, but a couple friends think 7th ed BRB with Ravening hordes is the best approach.

-Z

Edited: meant The 7th ed BRB, not AB.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 23, 2019, 10:49:51 PM
No kidding... since my Dwarf army is assembled and so is most of my Goblin, I was thinking of running a game of 7th first using that Start Here First guide, and go from there. Just to get a better grasp on the overall mechanics.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 24, 2019, 03:02:07 AM
7th is a tidier base ruleset.
However some changes to be aware of:
5 wide ranks instead of 4
Great weapons mounted changed.
I think parry changed too?

I would suggest using the 6th ed terrain generator at the back though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 24, 2019, 08:08:22 AM
Parry remained the same - that changed in 8th. That GW only provided +1S when mounted, but remained ASL was one of the dumbest changes of the 7th edition. Another major change was in Magic: the Magic Lores were overhauled (but still not overpowered), the miscast chart changed, and power dice generated by Wizards could only be used by themselves.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on September 24, 2019, 09:08:14 AM
7th is a tidier base ruleset.
However some changes to be aware of:
5 wide ranks instead of 4
[...]

I think 5 wide ranks were introduced already during the 6th ed. But how early/late in the edition? WD number?

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 24, 2019, 09:44:45 AM
Warlord is correct. Here is an old overview:

Quote
WARHAMMER 7TH EDITION RULEBOOK
RECORD OF RULES CHANGES - COMPLETE

In general, all rules text has been simplified where it was felt that it was unclear or overwritten. Some diagrams have been modified for extra clarity and new ones have been added where necessary.
Compatibility with existing army books was paramount throughout the entire process and has been 99% achieved!

The main changes are:

• Movement:

1. Charging units must now move to bring as many models as possible into the ensuing fight (from both their side and the enemy’s). This prevents exploitation with “clipping” charges.
2. Clarified how to move fleeing and pursuing units. Essentially: pivot the unit on the spot to face the direction it’s going to move towards, and then move it the distance rolled.
3. Clarified charge re-direction. Units hit enemies other than the ones they charged only if the new target is in their way as they charge after the fleeing intended target.
4. Re-worded the Change Formation manoeuvre so that it refers to the width of the unit’s frontage and not its ranks.
5. Killed the Snaking formation, as it is an obsolete rule that has long lost its reason to exist due to the newer rules for skirmishers and fast cavalry.
6. Clarified that units cannot voluntarily move off the battlefield unless specified in the scenario that is being played.

• Shooting:

7. A unit can now shoot only against one enemy unit and not multiple enemy units in any case, no exceptions.

• Magic:

8. Power dice generated by wizards can be used only by the wizards that generated them and not by other wizards in the army. The dice in the pool remain available to all wizards.
9. The Miscast Table itself is a lot nastier and the wizards can actually die from a Miscast, with rather spectacular pyrotechnic effects.
10. Spells in the Magic Lores have been reviewed in an attempt to make the least used Lores more appealing and tone down the ones that are a bit too good.
11. The Enchanted Shield cannot be combined with magic armour.
12. Reading a dispel scroll does not terminate the dispelling wizard’s Remains in play spells anymore.


• Combat:

13. Combat Phase sequence changed. The player whose turn it is picks combats in turn and each combat is completely resolved, including fleeing and pursuing, before passing onto the next. This clarifies the sequence in which fights, fleeing and pursuing happen. This change has several repercussions, such as allowing units to fight twice in a combat phase if they pursue into an existing combat that has not been solved yet during that phase (fight, win, pursue/overrun into another combat, fight again). Units, however, are limited to one pursue/overrun per turn only.
14. Fleeing is now always done directly away from the cause first, and then towards the closest table edge in following turns. Fleeing troops can move through friends (causing Panic), but are destroyed if they have to flee through enemies (of Unit Strength 5+) or impassable terrain. This solves the complex issue of the movement’s direction of fleeing and pursuing units.
15. The number of models needed to receive a Rank bonus in combat is now 5!
16. Killed the “Lapping Round” manoeuvre, but allowed winning units to perform a turn or change formation manoeuvre in combat, in order to bring more models into the fray.
17. Allowed the +1 combat res. bonus of the Battle Standard to stack on top of the +1 for units’ banners.
18. Added the Insane Courage rule: rolling snake eyes on a break test means the test is automatically passed, regardless of modifiers. This can even override auto-break from Fear-causing enemies!
19. Defended obstacles have been toned down. Units attacking over an obstacle simply lose the charging bonuses.
20. Clarified the rules for units that re-enter the battle after pursuing enemies off the table.

• Psychology:

21. Troops engaged in close combat do not take Psychology tests!
22. In order to cause Panic, friendly units fleeing/wiped out must have Unit strength 5+.
23. Unified all Panic ranges to 6”.
24. Removed the Panic test for fleeing friends within 4” at the beginning of the turn (it has effectively been replaced by the Panic test for friends fleeing through the unit).
25. Immune to Psychology gives immunity only to Panic/Fear/Terror, allowing positive psychological effects to affect the unit.
26. Unbreakable has now a Swarm box-out, which makes swarms suffer extra wounds when losing a fight, much in the same way as Undead.
27. Use combined Unit Strength of all units defeated in a fight against the combined Unit Strength of all fear-causing units on the winning side to determine if they are outnumbered by fear-causing enemies.
28. Stupidity does not affect units in close combat.

• War machines:

29. War machines without a crew are immediately destroyed by enemies in base contact with them.
30. Cannon balls hit all models they go through when hitting skirmishers or war machines and their crew.
31. Grapeshot uses the flame template, has variable Strength (Artillery dice) and causes D3 wounds.

• Weapons:

32. Great weapons confer only a +1 Strength bonus to mounted models.
33. Pistols simply count as hand weapons in close combat. If a model carries two+ pistols, it has the 2xMultiple shots rule.
34. Hand weapon+shield extra pip of armour applies only when fighting to the front and not to the flanks/rear.

• Skirmishers:

35. They cannot march if enemy is within 8” (this rule now applies across all units, no exceptions).
36. They get a single change of direction during the charge.
37. Added a section about skirmishing units of monsters and handlers.

• Monsters/chariots:

38. They get only one pivot during a charge.
39. Chariots can choose to move through difficult terrain and obstacles (but still suffer damage).

• Miscellaneous rules:

40. Regeneration is now a simple save working exactly like a ward save, except that it can be taken after ward saves (!) and is cancelled by flaming attacks.
41. “Always Strike First” has been standardised as a Special Rule.
42. Deleted the rule protecting Characters within 5” of friendly units. If not inside a friendly unit, characters are a unit of their own and can therefore be targeted normally!
43. Characters inside a friendly unit cannot be targeted by missile fire (and get ‘Look out sir’ if the unit is 5 or more models strong). This rule does not apply if they have Unit strength 5 or more. This allows characters mounted on multi-wound steeds (like Archaon, Tyrion etc.) to join friendly units without being picked out by enemy fire!
44. Buildings. Complete new rules for moving and fighting in buildings, including a spread on Special features (funky fantasy terrain!).
45. Clarified interaction of flying movement and terrain.
46. Magic resistance is passed from a character to the unit it joins and vice-versa.
47. Clarified rules for capturing Battle Standards.
48. Half VPs are now scored for units reduced to half strength or less, and not below half strength. The same is true of characters (so wounded Heroes yield half their cost in VPs!).
49. Units with Unit strength of less than 5 cannot capture table quarters, nor can they deny them.
50. Champion banners musicians and characters all equally have to be in the first rank (players are free to decide who goes at the back if there’s no space).
51. Clarified that fleeing generals and battle standards lose their abilities.
52. Clarified character-unit psychology interaction.

• Scenarios:

53. All scenarios have been either deleted or moved to the Hobby section. The rules section has now a “Starting the game” sequence that effectively explains the Pitched Battle scenario.
54. The rules for deploying terrain have been expanded, creating a terrain-set-up pre-game phase.
55. The player winning the roll-off at the beginning of the game gets to choose the table side but also has to start deploying, balancing out the importance of the initial roll.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: The Black Knight on September 24, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
The most important change about the 7th ed rulebook is that it had an index  :icon_wink:. Thank the gods for that!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 25, 2019, 01:02:37 AM
There was also the auto destroy if flee through a unit with unit strength 5 or more I believe... if it wasn’t already mentioned in Fidelis post (skimmed, but did not pick it up).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 25, 2019, 07:43:26 AM
Number 14.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 25, 2019, 10:30:39 AM
I feel like that, and the charge redirect rules had a massive impact on 7th ed strategies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 25, 2019, 01:02:46 PM
Ok I am going to make my first game in 7th. Seems with the index and pics that it will be easier for me to digest the rules.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 25, 2019, 11:12:53 PM
Well I just got that Empire Detachment set (was hung up due to the weather in Texas) and I am really glad I got it. While I was iffy on the State Troops all this time, I realize the handgunner/crossbow men models are vastly superior to the old models, which I do like. I had actually thought of mixing the two but I am just going to stick with the new ones.

I am still not crazy about many of the newer heads but whatever. I can see how Empire fans would have been big fans of these newer models. I wish I had cleaned out GW some time back.

I am really pumped about this. I was cool with the Empire army before but now I feel it has a 1000 times more character than what I had previously.

Also, does anyone know of any pics of the newer Halberdiers with shields? I don’t know where to put mine, and I wanted to use the older larger ones. I thought about putting them in the ground like they have jammed them into the ground in front of them, like they have set them down before fighting or something. Actually I just realized they would then get in the way. I thought of slinging them over their backs but not sure what they all would have to hook them to, if they didn’t have straps showing.

Help a brotha out! Go Empire!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on September 26, 2019, 08:17:16 AM
The newer Empire Detachment box (no longer in production), with the melee and ranged infantry, was a very tempting buy. Alas and IIRC, already back in 2009 it was out of production, and I couldn't find it locally. Didn't it also contain a Helblaster?

About halberdiers and shields, I have two, no three approaches. Two of them historical:

Historically, late medieval/renaissance infantry with halberds and pikes used the shields while advancing, and then either threw them away, or hanged them on their backs when engaging the enemy. So the shields were there to protect against arrows. Some units/armies had separate shieldbearers for the task. These could be the same guys who also fired the crossbows - and indeed, skirmishing crossbowmen with shields were the norm around the 14th and 15th century (very roughly). The shields used for this purpose, in this kind of formations, tended to be very big and rather rectangular, real pavises, sometimes with a pole for support and a pike at the bottom to lock them on the ground. No GW shields produced for the Empire ever had the proper size & looks for these kind of shields. 6th/7th ed Bretonnian infantry had such pavises, and the largest knight shields (also sold with some Bret infantry boxes) up to the 5th ed depict the earlier, more heather-like large shield.

The shields that come in the State Troop box are target shields (Tartsche in German). These seem to have had an Eastern origin, and were mostly used by cavalry. They started to appear in the 14th century (or even earlier in Eastern Europe). In the 15th century, the last century knights really used shields, target shields had become the norm. They were of many forms, but were mostly rather rectangular, with holes or other forms to support the lance or allow some tricks against the enemy weapon. This led to new forms of the heraldic shield too. Many GW fantasy shields echo these late heraldic shield forms, which were really never used in battles. So the State Troop shields are not very well suited for infantry fighting in formation. Some swordsmen detachments did carry such smaller shields, but they often chose round or roundish shields (the Spanish swordsmen for example). The State Troop shields might be better suited for cavalry than infantry, and you might want to look for other shields by other manufacturers for your infantry.

But who cares of history? It's a fantasy game.
In game, it's more about the look and the rules, and if you want to say your infantry has shields, better show it too.

All the State Troop bodies with breastplates do have some sort of strappings on their backs, although some of them are really thin, just lines on the garment. IIRC a couple have real straps. I don't think it too far fetched to say that these straps can be used to hang the shield. Carrying a small to medium shield on the back while using a two-handed weapon was practised. It will look good enough.

Some interpret the small target shields as buckler-like, and actually glue them on the forearm of the halberdiers (or the spearmen). Personally, I think it looks awkward. The shield doesn't protect much more than the forearm, it looks too heavy to use with the polearm, and it obstructs sight. Real bucklers were smaller and usually round. I don't recommend this option. But who am I to say what people do with their fantasy minis?  :engel:

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 26, 2019, 02:57:52 PM
Wow thanks Zygmund, it always amazes me how much peeps know regarding all this gear and tactics. I have learned a lot in this thread.

For shields, I was going to use these that I made for my old Swordsmen:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499333527_d4d2d792e8_z.jpg)

And I have just enough leftover (along with a different symbol) to use for the Halberdiers. I have to be honest that I do like the variety of the newer, smaller shields, as opposed to having mine look all the same. I was going to try and get around that by painting them all a little differently. But the smaller ones do look dainty and wimpy, especially for the Halberdiers.

I agree I don't think they belong on the arm as in attached to a forearm, especially during a fight, but I figure these guys are advancing more than they are actually fighting... so maybe its not a terrible idea either.

And I am keeping the goofy round ones for my Spearmen (from the 6th starter) and my Knightly Orders will keep the larger shields too. So might as well keep things consistent. If I was to do a second Empire army, I imagine I would experiment with small shields.

WHICH I AM NOT. DON'T GIVE ME ANY IDEAS!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 26, 2019, 03:53:34 PM
I like it when a regular infantry unit has shields that look the same.  Not sure if that was the way it was done in the early renaissance or not.  Having different shields seems to imply they are land owners that have different heraldry.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 26, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
So I know I will never play this, or even have the rules for it, so I am not sure what all it does, but I think this is one of the coolest WFB models I have seen:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120202031_CelestialHurricanumNEW01.jpg)

What does it do? Is it just a chariot for wizard? There are two kinds as you know, but does anyone know the difference between them?

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120202031_LuminarkofHyshNEW01.jpg)

Has anyone gone up against a Black Dragon? It looks like it would be the most powerful unit in the game just on size. How does it play?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 26, 2019, 08:34:17 PM
Both are 8th edition AB Arcane Battle Altars (or Wand Wagons, as I call them), which can be used as mounts for a Heavens or Light Wizard respectively, but also as units in their own right. The first one is the Celestial Hurricanum, adding a power die, giving all friendly units within 6"+1 to Hit. and also providing a rather meh spell. The second one is the Luminark of Hysh, adding a dispel die, giving all friendly units within 6" a 6+ ward save, and also providing a magical bolt thrower spell. The spell is better than the one of the Hurricanum, but rather superfluous, if you have one or more cannon (as you should have). Having a Wand Wagon as a mount for the respective Wizard does not add any specific benefit, other than those of a Ridden Monster.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 27, 2019, 01:03:10 AM
Assuming magic is in the 8th book (I know it’s overpowering), has anyone tried playing 6th or 7th edition rules with the 8th edition army books?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on September 27, 2019, 07:01:26 AM
I've never heard anybody trying out 7th ed BRB with 8th ed AB's. It could be interesting. At the very least, it would keep unit strength and curtail the number of attacks, which I think would help the game. It would also reduce the effectiveness of the monstrous units that have their own rules in the 8th and became common because of their crushing effectiveness. Then again, it might make those units unworthy. (IIRC, Ogre players weren't very happy about their army in the 7th ed, where there are no special rules for monstrous infantry.)

In general, the 8th ed AB's are even less balanced than the late 7th ed army books. The unbalance is both between the armies, and within the armies. For example, there is a wide agreement (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=46111.0) that the 8th ed Empire AB contains rubbish units and must-have units (if you want your army to prevail), and I believe this will not go away if you use the 7th ed BRB. This might not be a real problem if you play casual games with friends. But I think the 8th ed AB's make min-maxing more obvious and easier than the earlier editions' AB's.

If you like flirting with the 8th ed, I suggest you jump directly into the Ninth Age. The 1.1 is rebalanced 8th ed, and reintroduces some interesting units from the past Warhammer editions (Empire Foot Knights, Light Cavalry and Militia with pistols). The current 2.x has gone a bit further, but also cut back unit choices. You cannot find the 1.1 version online anymore, but hobbyists will be able to help you out. It's a very rules-lawyerish take on Warhammer, but still miles better than the 8th ed, methinks.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 27, 2019, 01:44:24 PM
I got you. I was just wondering how one might be able to play one of these kickass models if they weren't included in the previous editions. Like I would love to build one of those wizard chariots, but I wouldn't bother if I couldnt play it. And I am not crazy about mixing the rules for it with rules for the rest of my army in a previous edition.

I did look into 9th age btw. I almost bought a hardcopy book. But my problem was the army lists that I saw. Not only were they pretty limited, but some units had a huge model count and I was like, 'well I am never doing that'. I might have gone in that direction if not for that. But you know me by now, I am variety over quantity and I love small units for the flavors, not for winning if that makes sense.

BTW, I never saw the Empire Huntsmen until they were sold out. The models look a lot like they would be skirmishers. Even the name makes me feel like they would be. Did they become so?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 27, 2019, 01:52:26 PM
quote KTG17:I am variety over quantity and I love small units for the flavors, not for winning if that makes sense.

Same. I remember battles with a good friend. Crazy competitive but insanely nice. He had his nurgle nightmare against my fluffy elves. ‘Are you sure you want to go through with this?’
Good times
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 27, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
Huntsmen are Scouts, and therefore also Skirmishers. Note that in the 6th and 7th edition, you had the option to upgrade Archers to Huntsmen.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 27, 2019, 02:12:52 PM
If playing 6th or 7th edition in a non-competitive situation, and I wanted to use one of the 8th edition Empire wizard machines, then I'd consider what the machine does with maybe scale it up or down in strength or points to have in an army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 27, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
Agree. Just use the rules from 8th ed for it. Points to flavour. It is a rare choice or wizard mount.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 27, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
I must correct my previous statement somewhat: Huntsmen have both the Scouts and Skirmishers special rule. While AFAIK there are no Scouts without the Skirmishers special rule, the latter is not part of the former.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 27, 2019, 04:09:21 PM
Archers are skirmishers in Ravening Hordes! I missed that.

Man, I do with I had gotten those Huntsmen when they were for sale.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 27, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Yep, the Huntsmen kit is a great one!  I have at least two unopened, maybe more, looking for others.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on September 28, 2019, 11:37:49 AM
If playing 6th or 7th edition in a non-competitive situation, and I wanted to use one of the 8th edition Empire wizard machines, then I'd consider what the machine does with maybe scale it up or down in strength or points to have in an army.

This. You do have the 8th ed Empire AB? If not, somebody here can give you the idea of the wagon rules, and where the two versions differ.

Also sorry for my wall of text regarding the shields.

I think using the same type of shields on all of your infantry creates a very coherent, unified look. The older shields I would hang on the backs of the Halberdiers. Maybe, just to show frontally more of the shields, I'd add a couple who have not yet levelled their halberds into the fighting position, and are still carrying their shields.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 02, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
You do have the 8th ed Empire AB? If not, somebody here can give you the idea of the wagon rules, and where the two versions differ.

Also sorry for my wall of text regarding the shields.

I think using the same type of shields on all of your infantry creates a very coherent, unified look. The older shields I would hang on the backs of the Halberdiers. Maybe, just to show frontally more of the shields, I'd add a couple who have not yet levelled their halberds into the fighting position, and are still carrying their shields.

-Z

No, actually, and wasn't really planning on getting them. One of the things that drew me to 6th was Ravening Hordes. It really opened things up too, meaning there were so many armies covered in there that I could collect all that I have and have rules for them. If not for Ravening Hordes, that would mean I would have to hunt down all of the Army Books and for several reasons I didn't want to do that.

As far as the Halberds, thanks for all of the info. If I do mount them I guess it will be on their backs.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 02, 2019, 02:47:17 PM
Okay Ladies, here is a major update on what I have accumulated for my armies. Just the models and numbers, not getting into points again.

**********************
Empire (Newer models)
**********************

Heros: General (On Griffon, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Wizard (On Horse and Foot)
Core: 10 Swordsmen, 10 Halberdiers, 10 Handgunners, 5 Knightly Orders
Special: 10 Greatswords, Great Cannon, Mortar
Rare: Hellblaster Volley Gun

* Might get Flagellants (I think the models are interesting.



**********************
Orcs
**********************

Heros: Big Boss (On Boar and Foot), Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 10 Boyz with 2 Choppas, 10 Boyz with Spears, 10 Arrer Boyz
Special: 10 Black Orcs, 5 Boar Boyz, Stone Thrower, Chariot
Rare:
 


**********************
Dwarves
**********************

Heros: Thane, Army Standard, Troll Slayer, Rune Priest
Core: 10 Warriors, 10 Miners, 10 Thunderers
Special: Hammerers, Iron Breakers, Cannon
Rare: Gyrocopter



**********************
Goblins
**********************

Heros: Big Boss (On Horse and Foot), Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 20 Night Goblins with Spears, 20 Night Goblins with Spears, 20 Night Goblins with bows, 3 Fanatics
Special: 2 Bolt Throwers, 2 Wolf Chariots,
Rare: 20 Spider Riders, 3 River Trolls



**********************
High Elves
**********************

Heros: Commander (On Griffon, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Mage
Core: 10 Spearmen, 10 Seaguard, 5 Silver Helms
Special: 10 Swordsmasters, 5 Ellyrian Reavers
Rare: Repeater Bolt Thrower



**********************
Skaven
**********************

Heros: Chieftain, Army Standard, Warlock Engineer, Plague Priest
Core: 10 Clanrats with Halberds, 10 Clanrats with Halberds, 10 Clanrats with Swords, 10 Clanrats with Swords, 10 Stormvermin, 6 Giant Rats with Packmaster
Special: Plague Monks, Warpfire Team, Wind Mortar, 2 Rat Ogres with Packmaster
Rare: Doomwheel



**********************
Lizardmen
**********************

Heros: Saurus Hero, Skink Shaman, Skink Hero
Core: 10 Saurus Warriors with Spears, 10 Saurus Warriors, 8 Skink Skirmishers, Serpent Swarm
Special: 10 Temple Guard, 5 Cold One Riders
Rare:

* On the hunt for a Stegadon



**********************
Wood Elves
**********************

Heros: General, Army Standard, Mage
Core: 10 Glade Guard, 10 Archers
Special: 10 Dryads, 5 Scouts, 5 Glade Riders
Rare: Treeman



**********************
Chaos Warriors
**********************

Heros: Champion, Army Standard, Sorcerer, Marauder Chieftain (On Horse and Foot)
Core: 10 Chaos Warriors, 10 Marauders with Shields, 10 Marauders with Flails, 10 Chaos Hounds
Special: 5 Chaos Knights, Chaos Chariot
Rare:

* Looking into getting Marauder Horsemen. I really like the idea of a pure Marauder army too.


**********************
Bretonnians
**********************

Heros: Paladin (On Pegasus, Horse, and Foot), Army Standard, Wizard
Core: 5 Knights of the Realm, 10 Man-At-Arms, 10 Man-At-Arms, 10 Bowmen, 10 Bowmen
Special: 5 Squires Mounted
Rare:

* On the hunt for Questing Knights



**********************
Beastmen
**********************

Heros: Chieftain, Army Standard, Shaman
Core: 10 Gors with 2 Hand Weapons, 10 Gors with Shields, 10 Ungors with Spears and Shields, 10 Chaos Hounds
Special: 10 Beastigors, Chariot
Rare: 3 Minotuars



**********************
Dark Elves
**********************

Heros: Commander, Army Standard, Sorcerer
Core: 10 Dark Elf Warriors with Spears, 10 Dark Elf Warriors with Repeater Crossbows, 10 Corsairs with Extra Weapon, 10 Corsairs with Repeater Crossbows, 5 Dark Riders
Special: 5 Cold One Knights, 10 Black Guard
Rare: Repeater Bolt Thrower



**********************
Vampire Counts
**********************

Heros: Thrall, Wight Army Standard, Necromancer
Core: 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Zombies, 10 Zombies, 10 Ghouls, Bat Swarm
Special: 10 Dire Wolves, 10 Grave Guard, 5 Wight Cavalry
Rare: Black Coach

* May get a Banshee



**********************
Tomb Kings
**********************

Heros: Tomb Lord, Army Standard, Liche Priest
Core: 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Skeleton Archers, 5 Skeleton Cavalry
Special: 3 Skeleton Charioteers
Rare:

* On the hunt for Tomb Guard and Screaming Skill Catapult



**********************
Ogre Kingdoms
**********************

Heros: Bruiser
Core: 3 Bulls, 3 Bulls, 3 Ironguts, 3 Ironguts, 20 Gnoblars, 20 Gnoblars
Special: 3 Leadbelchers
Rare:



**********************
Hobgoblins (Gnoblars)
**********************

Heros: Hero, Hero
Core: 10 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders, 10 Hobgoblins with Shields, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins, 10 Hobgoblins with Bows, 10 Sneaky Gits
Special: Bolt Thrower
Rare:



I don't have many items left to buy. Just about all the necessary ones are bought, and the rest are really just nice to have's. Its been a crazy year of buying. From here on I might pick up a random unit here and there if the price is right, but I am just about past that nagging feeling on having to buy this or that.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on October 02, 2019, 03:32:54 PM
I would say you have a full army list lol. There’s painting for 2 years or more at my rate. 
 :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 02, 2019, 04:22:01 PM
I would say you have a full army list lol. There’s painting for 2 years or more at my rate. 
 :::cheers:::

lol oh man I am thinking I will need 2 years just to assemble them, let alone paint anyone.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 03, 2019, 12:11:57 PM
Don't worry, your not the only folks with that issue. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 04, 2019, 02:43:17 PM
I wish to inform you that I have, through purchase, have acquired a set of plastic Mounted Marauders.

And I am very excited about that.

BTW I am only buying the old style Warhammer boxes. Not the generic white boxes and def not that Sigmar crap. Only WFB in its purest form.

Which typically ends up costing me a little more.  :cry:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on October 04, 2019, 04:17:54 PM
The marauder foot and horse were my favourites of the chaos units. I once had an idea to do a Norse army theme using the marauder models and a certain amount of converting. One of my warhammer buddies ( very successful competitive player) just kind of looked at me with the eyebrow raised frown and changed the subject. Still like the never-materialized dream.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 04, 2019, 04:30:20 PM
Yeah I have to be honest I think a pure Marauder army is even more chaos than a Chaos Warrior army. I think for my small games I am in pretty good shape with a Chieftain, two units of Marauders, the horsemen, and some hounds.

RH lists a Marauder Chariot, so guess that is on my list now. Did they ever make a plastic one? I have the Chaos Warrior one, but I think it is too over the top for a Marauder one.

Guess I can hit ebay...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 04, 2019, 06:12:44 PM
Ok so I spotted an old metal Chaos Chariot that looks smaller and wimpier than the newer plastic one that might do. I would just need a new crew I guess.

But honestly I feel like they would have something more primitive looking like an Orc or Beastmen chariot.

Will purchase something next month.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 04, 2019, 06:34:52 PM
Always liked the marauder figures for Chaos, and look forward to owning some.  I have some of the metal chaos archers recently bought.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on October 06, 2019, 08:11:12 PM
All your ‘to buy’ or ‘on the hunt’ are great.
Only things I would add would be:
Something rare for the orcs. Maybe giant?
More skinks for the lizardmen
Wardancers for the wood elves?
Scraplauncher for the ogres.

Perhaps a few other units here or there if you are exploring ranges and wanted another thing, but otherwise great stuff!

That said, if you feel adventurous.... consider if you wanted to split lizardment into a skink army and saurus army, and you could get yourself a slann...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 08, 2019, 01:50:08 PM
JUST PICKED UP A PLASTIC STEGADON IN THE OLD SCHOOL WARHAMMER BOX ON EBAY FOR $45 INCLUDING SHIPPING!!!! YES!!!

(I really prefer the older boxes versus the new AOS crap. Even if the models are the same. I am doing this old school or not at all.)

All your ‘to buy’ or ‘on the hunt’ are great.
Only things I would add would be:

Something rare for the orcs. Maybe giant? - I wasn't planning on this, but I have always thought the plastic models were brilliant. We will see.
More skinks for the lizardmen - I do like the skinks. But I have pretty much blown past 1000 points as it is.
Wardancers for the wood elves? - Same as above I think.
Scraplauncher for the ogres. - No rules for it in 6th. I guess I could consider just pulling the 8th rules. I don't know anything about this. How is it different than a Great Cannon?

Quote
That said, if you feel adventurous.... consider if you wanted to split lizardment into a skink army and saurus army, and you could get yourself a slann...

Yeah if there is any model I wish I could get, its the newer Slann model. I just love those guys. We'll see in a few months.

To be honest I am running close of getting too much stuff. When I get to this point I literally start feeling weighed down and want to sell stuff. I got the Dark Elf Dark Riders and I wasn't super crazy about the models, and I was like, I already have Cold Ones. But then I got the Marauder Horsemen and was excited again. Its going to take me forever to get to those guys, and I worry is that I am going to have all this crap sitting around and annoying me.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on October 08, 2019, 06:55:38 PM
Ok. Stop buying then. Start building. More update photos! :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 12, 2019, 12:13:43 AM
Okay! Today's treat is a trip into my mind and why its so hard for me to concentrate on one thing, let alone on my Warhammer armies. I am very eclectic (more than anyone I have ever met), and easily distracted by new passions, as I have been over the last few weeks.

So I was all excited setting time aside for WFB when some models on eBay started showing up for prices I was looking for. The models in question were for this guy, the Epic Capital Imperialis from the Adeptus Titanicus/Space Marine v1 era of Epic 40k:

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap125epiccapitalimp-02.jpg)

Now, besides the Reaver Titan (which I am showing two examples below from the same era) which is probably my favorite miniature of all time, the Capital Imperialis was always the holy grail for me growing up.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NQba047G4Fc/UnobAAQ4DCI/AAAAAAAADjU/BFTTtSv0Ig8/s1600/DSC_0411.JPG)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QREFZIyhtBs/Unoa5T1k2TI/AAAAAAAADjM/b5mQCgII0y0/s1600/DSC_0404.JPG)

Back in the day, I was a rabid Epic 40k fan (using that term loosely here as there have been 5 different versions of 'Epic'), and Reavers cost about $30 I think back in the day. Geez, maybe it was $15 I am not sure. Either way, it was a lot of money for me at the time since I was making minimum wage. The Capital Imperialis was $50 I think, and way beyond what I could pay for a single model. But I drooled over the idea of having one. They are essentially slow moving transports with a ton of heavy weapons. Pretty much a castle on wheels like you see.

Well, as I got older I still collected Epic and slowly bought up all the armies and miniatures I didn't have as a kid. The Capital Imperialis though, was always pretty pricey. Usually over $100 a piece complete on eBay. I held off getting them until a couple of years ago and managed to snag 4 of them in different sales and for pretty good prices. The problem though, was that they were either missing the tank tracks parts or they were just in terrible condition.

Back in the day, GW made the Capital Imperialis body out of lead, but the tracks were plastic. I had no idea at the time, but the track components were supplied by another English company called JB Models, who made a series of 1/76 armored vehicles, who eventually were bought out by Airfix. So I guess GW made a deal with JB to supply the track parts to their 1/76 M113 kits to be used with the Capital Imperialis kits.

So, I didn't want to drop a lot on just track parts, so it took a long time to hunt these kits down. Early on, I didn't know Airfix had bought out JB Models and it would have certainly helped to have known that. JB made two variants of the M113:

(https://www.kingkit.co.uk/uploads/shop/large/80896P1260045.JPG)

(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/0/1/167001-11185-pristine.jpg)

The tracks were the same for each kit, but for shits and giggles I bought both, and after looking them over, I really liked the idea of building these kits. There are much better 1/72 scale kits out there, but I am a sucker for old model kits from the 60s-80s. As a matter of fact, the very first model kit I every built was a 1/76 Panzer II from Matchbox:

(https://adamrehorn.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/panzer-ii-oob-001.jpg)

This kit was amazing and still is. Like all Matchbox kits, it came with a diorama base as well as a couple of figures. Not my kit but here is a completed one:

(https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/media/managed/products/8763-large.jpg)

I had many battles as a kid with this tank versus those two men. I just pretended they were different armies and the tank was attacking the fort with the men defending. The Panzer II is still one of my favorite all time tanks.

Anyway, I was familiar with the American M113 from Vietnam, but I didn't know anything about the Fire Support Vehicle, which turned out to be an Australian vehicle. Apparently the Aussies transferred the turrets off their older Saladin armored cars and mounted them on the newer M113s. I thought they were pretty cool. And of course, this led me to research more on the Saladin, which was a series of armored cars for the British army, and during that, discovered that the Saladin shared the same body with another vehicle I had seen before, the Saracen, which both by the way, were also made by JB Models in 1/76 scale.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611MAukMg8L._AC_SL1024_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/617+adZ5ZpL._AC_SL1024_.jpg)

Well, I am a sucker for Armored Cars, especially the kind of older and... not sure how to word this... wimpier looking kind. You see, in the US we go big. We add lots of big guns, and things look pretty terrifying. But even with WWII tanks, I am not interested in the Tiger or IS-IIs, I am interested in the 1939-1942 stuff. The fragile and failures especially (don't get me started on Italian tanks!). And I just loved these two armored cars.

So not knowing anything about either one, I read up on them and found that they were developed during the Malaya Emergency during the late 1940s-1950s. I had never even heard of the Malayan Emergency and I wish the US had paid a little attention to it as it probably would have helped during Vietnam. Anyway, so to make a long story short, I hunted down one of each, and these typically go for $20-30 but I managed to get them for pretty cheap.

In the process of assembling the M113s, I remembered I built an old M113 Hammerhead back in the day, by ESCI, which was actually 1/72 scale. I decided that I wanted to build the same thing but using the JB Model chasis. So I picked up one for cheap, and just used the parts for the Tow Missile Launcher. This took some customizing to mount it on the JB version but it worked out pretty good. Now at this point I had bought 7 JB M113 variants, 4 for Capital Imperialis, and three to build as tanks. As I was assembling the US Vietnam version, I thought it would be cool to make an earlier version of the M113, without all the extra M60 guns, so yes, I picked up another. I should add here that during the middle of this I was also picking up the Airfix version of these (as they had started reselling them under their brand, but were no where near as good as the JB quality). So that is how I ended up with so many kits.

Now, while researching all of these M113s, I saw a lot of the Vietnam era ones with all sorts of stowage on them. Like a ton. So I looked around and found a manufacturer in the UK that sold a pack of 1/76-1/72 random items to that could be put around vehicles. Interestingly, I didn't find many English or Australian vehicles in old pics that had the same level of stowage on their vehicles like the US ones.

It was almost like I could see an English sergeant saying, 'Right, let's tidy up this vehicle. This is her majesty's vehicle, not your bedroom."

"Yes, sergeant."

Whereas the Americans just didn't give a shit, and threw their crap all over the place.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/5774/22978681891_62c2462d04_z.jpg)

So I bought the set and spread the parts around my kits, but went really light on the brits and aussie vehicles.

So this is what I got, waiting to be primed:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882891507_d26d0c8c33_z.jpg)

Australian M113 Fire Support Vehicle:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882703131_658394c2d8_z.jpg)

US M163 Hammerhead:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882891362_642db0f468_z.jpg)

US M113 ACAV

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882173423_63bae5f849_z.jpg)

Now the 1/72 ESCI Hammerhead kit came with interior detail parts which weren't an exact fit for the JB version, but I wanted the top hatch in-between the M60 guns to be open in case I ever find some guys to man the guns, so I did what I could to put the interior parts from the ESCI kit into the JB one.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882173343_53fb1686b2_k.jpg)

No one really ever see most of what is inside, and I still might put some random stowage on the benches. But it still helps with the casual glance and not seeing a completely bare interior.

M113

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882702946_801f348aec_z.jpg)

I wanted all of my kits to be different, so for the basic M113, I put the driver (one of the extra M113 ACAV gunners) sticking his head out. I typically never do this, as I prefer all my tanks to be in combat mode, but I am glad I did this. He isn't actually sitting on a seat, I had to jerry-rig it to do this, but no one will ever see it.

Saracen

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882890797_35d6f94a06_z.jpg)

Love this thing. The tiny turret kills me.

Saladin

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48882890907_e4d6bdf16f_z.jpg)

Now the Saladin has a pretty famous moment, and I knew when I saw this kit that I had seen this armored car before. It took me a bit, but I remembered it from the opening Iraq invasion of Kuwait. I had seen on the news a couple of Kuwaiti Saladins firing on Iraqi troops who had landed on the beach.

(http://up.picr.de/783555.jpg)

I remember watching these two on TV thinking, "Man, they better get the fuck out of there."

Anyway, there you have it. Chasing a childhood dream led to too many parts to models I didn't need, but then had to have, then bought even more and some $100 plus later I have these 6 models to work on. They will get primed this weekend, and then sit with the many others waiting to be painted.

 :unsure:

So while you guys struggle with what unit for your army you are going to work on, or what other game you might work on, I have some dozen other things I can get highjacked by at a random moments notice.

Once these are primed I am back on Warhammer. I promise. My Stegadon just arrived in the mail and is waiting to be checked out.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention I have a 1/76 Scorpion and a 1/76 Scimitar to go with these.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 12, 2019, 02:59:38 AM
I know the feeling! :icon_mrgreen: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on October 12, 2019, 10:23:16 AM
Totally My alley too! Love all The stuff you show, and actually built half of those decades ago. I had Tamiya's 1/35 Saladin, with a motor.  :icon_cool:

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 12, 2019, 12:15:31 PM
Thanks! I know 1/35 is a superior scale, and I actually have a built 1/35 Panzer II (of course) waiting to be painted. The only problem with 1/35 is the size. I have so much stuff and I wouldn’t have any place to store them let alone show them off.

Even modern 1/72 manufacturers are doing some amazing stuff, but I just prefer these old kits and all of their flaws.

I am also a collector of obscure anime kits from the 80s too. I was on the hunt for decades for the old kits I had as a kid (living in Asia) that I either shot with BB guns, set on fire, or blew up with firecrackers. Those are like the tier 1 of my collection, but the 1/76 Matchbox kits are up there with them. You just can’t beat having a vehicle, a diorama base, and some figures to make a scene. Brilliant.

And even tho Revell has re-released many of those older Matchbox kits, I have nothing to do with them. I prefer the art on the old boxes.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 12, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
Just finished the Scorpion and Scimitar. They are the same vehicles, just different armament. The Scorpion has the shorter 76mm barrel while the Scimitar has the longer 30mm anti-tank gun.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48887372581_cec23f2880_z.jpg)

These are really small vehicles. Here they are alongside the M113 in the same scale.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48887548282_68fb654941_z.jpg)

They were made in aluminium too, which couldn't have been reassuring to the crews.

Here they are facing off against a Panzer II and Panzer 28(t).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48886831663_e994ca570b_z.jpg)

I do finish projects from time to time!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48887372416_1e00de67a9_z.jpg)

Crap, I forgot to put some stowage on the new tanks before I primed... gaagghhhhh….
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 14, 2019, 02:17:40 PM
Looking good! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 15, 2019, 06:57:52 PM
I'll have you all know that I have just acquired an old school metal Chaos Chariot to be used for my Marauders as a Marauder chariot.

So I am at about 700pts for a Marauder army with including some chaos hounds.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 20, 2019, 03:51:22 PM
Well my vintage Chaos chariot has arrived. I have decided to put the marauder-looking driver from the plastic kit in it for the driver, and more the cheesy looking metal vintage one over to the plastic kit. Not sure if I am going to try and kitbash a Marauder warrior for the second crewman or what. I might just swap heads with for a plastic Marauder one. Not sure. I am a long way off from that so in no hurry.

Now, because I have been buying so much WFB stuff I had to re-organize some things, and in doing so came across some old anime kits (old Mechanic Collection line) from Space Battleship Yamato that I had set aside a million years ago to build. I don't know why, but I thought I would build a Comet Empire fleet. I've literally been carrying these around forever, and decided I either needed to do something with them now, or sell them. I decided to build them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930061356_968d20f398_z.jpg)

Bandai has released newer versions, which are usually smaller in size than the older ones. Some of these older kits have REALLY small parts and gluing them in the right place is a real time consuming pain in the ass.

I have some other models from various kits I accumulated back in the day, like the Stealth sub and the fighters, from different kits. I actually have polls to mount them on. The sub is going to be mounted on the destroyer base, the horseshoe crab looking fighter is going to be mounted on the single-deck carrier base, and the standard fighter on the double-deck carrier base. None of these ships match in scale so who cares.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48930061676_7db6ec9d59_z.jpg)

If you have no idea what any of this is no worries. But I will say that Space Battleship Yamato (at least the first season) is absolutely one of the finest sci-fi stories ever made, and they did an amazing reboot called Yamato 2199, which I have to say is even better than the original. These ships came from the second season of both the original and reboot.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 20, 2019, 04:11:59 PM
Those are different, and I like them! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on October 20, 2019, 04:35:46 PM
Never heard of this game. Only BFG of which I have an unpainted collection.
Very cool
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 20, 2019, 06:23:42 PM
Well it’s not really a game, although there was a miniature games called Star Blazers which is the American version of the show. But Yamato is a Japanese anime.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 20, 2019, 09:37:28 PM
Oh my god, I finally did it.

I did it.

I finally got myself a unit of plastic Tomb Guard.

HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE 10-MAN UNIT I HAVE EVER BOUGHT. But I lost out on two before, and so when another went up for auction and the seller had Make an Offer, I didn't want to wait another week I just made an offer, which turned out to be a lot higher than I planned. The currency conversion was a lot higher when I paid than it was when I offered.

At any rate, I finally got those f***ers and I don't have to worry about this anymore. Not that my Tomb King army wasn't big enough, but I didn't have an elite unit for it like I have for my other armies. I have planned to convert 10 of my skeleton warriors into them, and started setting aside parts to make halberds, but once I saw the actual plastic models they made (I had only had seen the metal and didn't want those), my jaw hit the floor.

So I only have a screaming catapult to buy at some point, and that is it. I will have all the WFB I had set out to buy.

Except for the Army Standards, which I am making progress on. As a matter of fact, I just saw this guy for the first time and picked him up too:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48932084841_09463f08e7_w.jpg)

Love it.

I only need one for the Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Goblins, Chaos (1 Marauder one and one Chaos Warrior one), might get the Lizardman one too. Not sure if there are Army Standards in 6th edition Ogre Kingdoms.

Anyway, Tomb Guard were expensive as hell, but finally happy to have them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 21, 2019, 12:03:37 AM
Congrats! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Rowsdower on October 21, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
Always good to see those old Matchbox kits :biggriin:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 26, 2019, 08:41:37 PM
Glad to see other fans out there! If it wasn't for Matchbox, I may not even be here.

Can anyone advise me on what to do with this?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48964425297_5b2e6e8562_z.jpg)

Its the old Skeleton Chariot. I don't know how old it is or when it came out. I think it might have been pre-Tomb Kings? You guys will know better than me. I got it because I gave some thought to converting the Corpse Cart from the Vampire Count Battalion set into a custom Black Coach, but then I got the Black Coach, felt I didn't need the Corpse Cart and sold it, and ironically are now left with this. I thought of selling it, but I kinda like it. I don't know what to do with it though. I have the newer chariots for my Tomb King army, and it wouldn't fit in that unit, and RH doesn't include rules for a chariot for Vampire Counts, so I don't know what to do. And I actually have ONE LEFTOVER CHARIOT BASE, so its a sign I should do something with it, even if it’s cheesy.

Any ideas? Any ideas on how to fit it into a Vampire Count army? Should I even? Vampire Counts seem to be devoid of war machines except for the Black Coach or Corpse Cart and I suspect there is a reason for that.

Also, let it be known: I have acquired a Dark Elf Army Standard (metal figure with the crazy pole). I am not sure if I mentioned this, but I also picked up a Wood Elf Army Standard, which I am pretty sure is a copy from Russia. Hasn't arrived yet. I normally wouldnt spring for copies, but the price was good and I have been pleasantly surprised by some of the copies I have gotten from Russia. Some time ago I picked up a copy of the Forge World Great Unclean One which I was blown away by so much it inspired me to start a Nurgle army for 40k. So hoping I like this miniature half as much as the Unclean One.

So as far as Army Standards go:

Empire - Check
Orcs - Check
Dwarves - Working on a custom
Goblins - Working on a custom
High Elves - Check
Skaven - I might spring for a legit one. Not sure. If I ever have a third hero it will be probably be my custom Plague Priest.
Wood Elves - Hopefully Check
Dark Elves - Check
Bretonnians - Not sure what to do here. I have seen a model on Ebay just for this that is mounted, but all of my other Army Standards are on foot. I would prefer they all be the same, even if Bretonnians are Knight-based. I did think of doing the same thing I did with my Generals - making one on foot and one mounted, but I decided enough was enough already. Probably will make a foot version I guess. I feel someone is going to yell at me for that.
Lizardmen - Not sure what to do here. I can't give heros Standards in RH, and I don't plan on ever doing Lords.
Tomb Kings - Have a model in mind just haven't snagged him yet.
Beastmen - Check
Vampire Counts - Picked up the Wight Champion standard guy. I think he's a pretty old model because of the packaging. So Check.
Chaos - Working on separate models for Chaos Warriors and Marauders. The more Marauder models I get the more I like them, and like the Beastmen, I think look more Chaos than the Chaos Warriors. My current plan is to sort of split my Chaos army into playable Chaos Warrior and Marauder armies (small ones I admit), and borrow from each for bigger games. I think of the Marauders as your usual run of the mill Chaos thugs, and the Chaos warriors show up when things are getting real. So I guess my vision of a normal Chaos army would be like 70% Marauder and 30% Chaos Warrior. But making separate standards for both.
Ogre Kingdoms - Prob not going to bother. I don't know if they even have them to be honest.
Gnoblars - Not sure. I probably should. They need all the help they can get.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on October 26, 2019, 09:53:20 PM
Looks like the 1988 Undead Chariot to me.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 26, 2019, 10:55:29 PM
What should I do with it?!?

I was just thinking I could keep one of the skeletons, throw him in with the masses of Tomb King troops, and use one of the official ones as an Army Standard (as opposed to buying an official one), but it turns out that I don’t have enough poles, so I would have to go shopping anyway.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on October 27, 2019, 02:07:30 AM
No idea whatbto do with it. Maybe a hero’s chariot? General?

Also, Bret BSB should 100% be mounted. They need to be knight based, otherwise they are poor man’s Empire.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 27, 2019, 05:15:34 PM
Yeah I know it would look proper for the standard to be mounted. It’s just that I feel it gives the Brettonians an unfair advantage for having a standard be able to run around the battlefield faster than those that can’t. I guess this can apply to generals too, where I might have mounted Empire and Elf generals but not mounted Goblin or Skaven.

Just trying to keep my armies balanced.

I see multiple battle standards on eBay and I am wondering if peeps are calling some banners by the wrong thing. And I can’t see inside the blisters. Anyone have a pic of the official battle standard bretonnian model? I think it may have been limited edition I am not sure.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on October 27, 2019, 05:39:02 PM
This is the offical one:

(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img453f6a207ef58.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on October 27, 2019, 05:41:02 PM
In the Classic Range, there was also Repanse de Lyonesse that could be used as BSB.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/1/12/Repanse_De_Lyonesse.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170918053734)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on October 27, 2019, 05:45:04 PM
Oh, and here is a picture of the Undead Chariot:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EW8AAOSwuA1afc7~/s-l640.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 27, 2019, 07:12:44 PM
Saving that box pic for painting reference thanks.

I thought that banner was a Holy Grail one.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 27, 2019, 09:47:18 PM
Glad to see other fans out there! If it wasn't for Matchbox, I may not even be here.

Can anyone advise me on what to do with this?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48964425297_5b2e6e8562_z.jpg)
You could sell it to me. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on October 27, 2019, 11:16:39 PM
I thought that banner was a Holy Grail one.

Nope. Grail Knights (ordinary and classical) have their own command group with standard bearer, but the one I posted is the only official generic BSB model. Of course, many Bretonnian models would lean themselves for conversion into a BSB.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on October 27, 2019, 11:50:58 PM
Just trying to keep my armies balanced.

Sure, but you only are within limited parameters. Which is what I was trying to convince you about with unit sizes for horde troops vs elites.
All the armies are different. They have their own strengths and weaknesses, and if ever you want to play with them, you want each to feel like its own experience. There need to be some armies that have their BSB mounted. Others (like VC or lizards) where you dont even bother with a BSB. Sure they make the army look great. But they also have to suit the playstyle.

Take 9th age for example. Now personally I hate thier implementation of ‘Army Strengths and Weaknesses’ of ‘ASAW’ however at least it guves the player a view on how the army is supposed to be composed.
Each of the armies you are collecting, you have an approximate vibe you are trying to obtain. But that could differ from others vibes they get from the same army. Empire infantry was a good example from before. Lizardmen with skinks and skirmishers is another. And Brets being about a lot of cavalry is another. You have a feeling for Chaos - the 70/30 ratio. Others have their own view and might think marauders are a waste. Balance is quite broad - its one of the appeals of warhammer I guess.

If you are talking balance, then. Bretonnian infantry is trash. The BSB needs to be mobile to support the cavalry, because thats all that matters in the Bret army. The peasants can die and it doesn’t and shouldn’t matter. Its what they are for.
Just like in a Dwarf army, every unit matters. Or a combined Orc and Goblin army the Goblins are the trash. Balance is about applying the identity of each army, not taking the same unit size or hero choice in each army, because then you actually are just making the armies more similar despite their ASAW. And some armies do those similarities better than others, which ultimately makes it unbalanced.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 28, 2019, 02:04:03 AM
I see, and you are right about the Battle Standard keeping up with the knights. I’ll get the mounted one then.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 30, 2019, 08:49:33 PM
So here are my mounted Squires for my Bretonnian army...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48987101013_96ca58c915_z.jpg)

I know, nothing you haven't seen before. But I really like these guys and getting them to this point was a pain in the ass. I tried to save money and bought them assembled/painted as I was looking for specific guys, and the squires and horses turned out to be in really crappy shape. I did the best I could, but who knows maybe some day I will try to get 5 new ponies for them. I did replace the banner pole that the standard came with and replaced it with a proper banner from the Knights kit. I just prefer everything to be more uniform. And some of the shields are re-casts I made. I think I only got 3 in that shape and I wanted all of them to be the same, and match what the Knights have.

I know I get a lot of heat for not having enough Knights but I would rather have a variety of units so I got these guys in place of another Knight unit. At least for the small armies I was building.

I have a mage as you can see, and she is one of my favorite WFB models let alone Bretonnian. My plan for the general is to make the same guy on foot, mounted, and on a Pegasus like I did with the Empire General. But I am a long way off from hitting the Bretonnians. I only worked on the Squires because they were in such bad shape.

I am sure I said it before, but I was iffy on the Bretonnians when I first started getting into WFB but the Squires had a big part in me getting interested in them. They and the Man-At-Arms. And once I got the Battalion set was blown away with the Bowmen too. I have learned having all these weak units isn't going to help their cause, as opposed to more Knights, but I really, really like the Bretonnian grunt models. They went from being 'whatever' to one of my favorite armies and that was a real surprise to me.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on October 30, 2019, 09:01:05 PM
Congrats, they look awesome! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on October 30, 2019, 10:47:15 PM
Yes they do look awesome. I like the squire fluff as well. Your approach is much like mine was. Taking what I liked as opposed to what guaranteed a game. Suffice it to say, when I won the reaction of my opponent was ‘what did I do wrong?’
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 31, 2019, 02:02:31 AM
Thanks!

Need some advice.  When I got my Wood Elf Battalion, the horses had been assembled and primed black, and weren't even really assembled well. I broke them down as best I could and cleaned them up. After I assembled them I was wondering if I shouldn't have removed the parts where the legs are molded to the tall grass for extra support.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48988843941_28a55f50e0_z.jpg)

Would you guys remove them? The models sitting on them are plastic too, so I don't think using only two legs to attach to the base is a big deal. And I do not intend to add new grass like that to the base either.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on October 31, 2019, 03:39:56 AM
The squires, men-at-arms and bowmen are great models no doubt. I don’t blame you for that reason - its a good reason!

I cut those bits off most of my elven steeds. It kinda looks ridiculous when they made them that way...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on October 31, 2019, 08:14:05 AM
Nice Brets!

Earlier, I cut the sculpted grass off the horses. These minis have sustained the wear and tear quite well, but it's obvious the horses would be much sturdier with the plastic grass still on. I'm sure the horse legs will eventually snap, and I need to resort to pinning, and possibly greenstuff. So it's a trade-off between sturdiness and good looks.

To a degree, you could hide the plastic grass within tufts of long static grass.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on October 31, 2019, 01:50:27 PM
Z this was my worry too. I tend to take care of things, but like everyone else I can be clumsy and drop something on a tile floor, etc. I really don't like the grass, but I also don't want to deal with any structural issues either. I guess I could just add a lot of superglue and model glue to the feet that are attached to the base, to reinforce things now...

I'll think it over. I know the models would look better without the grass. I don't know what GW was thinking.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 01, 2019, 03:07:35 PM
I just picked up the Bretonnian battle standard guy. I got him for a decent price and if I can find another around the same price, I will buy another to have on foot.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 01, 2019, 03:25:05 PM
Actually I have some questions about Bretonnian standards. The Man-At-Arms/Bowmen command sprues come with some random pole mounts and I am not sure if those are meant to be used in place of a flag for a standard. Like the peliquin-looking head or the box -like thing.

(https://reader015.dokumen.tips/reader015/html5/0705/5b3d55546b875/5b3d555fa8c13.jpg)

Lower right sprue under the flag and then above the far lower right figure.

What are those exactly. I do like the flags so will probably just use those. Not sure if this show go over the flag on the pole either. But if someone can make a good case to use them, please let me know.

EDIT: Ha. Just noticed in the picture they go above the flag. Well that answers that.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 02, 2019, 12:24:21 PM
Yep. Like the tops of the empire banners with their variable tops. Skulls with swords, skulls with arrows, etc.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 02, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
Yeah looking into it further I am not sure about using those on the top of the poles. We'll see. I know I should differentiate between my units and those will certainly help, but I like those three leaf symbols better. And I have see them just mounted on standard poles without the flags, so maybe I will to that with the bowmen or something. I don't know. I am not there yet, but just want to be sure I have all the pieces now.

Welcome the newest edition to my Beastmen army:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49001406143_34887a0947_z.jpg)

I. Love. This. Guy.

When I set out to get Battle Standards for everyone, I had no idea what I was going to do with the Beastmen. I didn't have any leftover bodies to make a hero, and didn't want to recycle a unit banner unless I had to. I saw a hero with a back banner and almost considered him, but just before I pulled the trigger I found the guy above, who doesn't seem too common. Maybe it was a limited edition figure? I don't know. I also think what I got was a re-cast but it looks great and I am fine with that. He was also metal which was great as I avoid nearly all finecast.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49002152232_fc932a385e_z.jpg)

I also have the multi-part plastic Shaman but will work on him later. I was so blown away by the two above that I had to assemble and prime them as soon as they came in. I really like the Beastmen army. Really had no idea I would be as impressed with them as it turned out, and I am REALLY glad I picked up that chariot over the summer. And the plastic multi-part Minotaurs before that.

The Beastmen are right up there with the Wood Elves and Bretonnians as far as armies I thought were blah from a distance but once I started getting the kits they were right up to the top of some of my favorites. Other armies, like the Dark Elves or Chaos, you expect to be cool even though you might be surprised by the detail. With the Beastmen my jaw was on the floor. They just ooze a disturbing evil that the other Chaos armies don't have, even if they are more traditional looking chaos.

Also, I had planned to finish off all the armies in my starter sets first before moving on to the battalion sets, but after completely revamping my Empire army, which exhausted me the first time around, I might actually hold off from doing the empire for now. I do think the new kits I got are vastly superior to the older ones I was working on, but after all that work on the older ones, I am kind of burned out on Empire at the moment. I am also not 100% sure on what parts from the old I am going to use in the new, so I have some figuring out to do. I hope to do something with the older figs I did, even though I don't like many of them anymore. If I could go back and wipe out the first 5-6 pages of this thread when I was posting pics of them and replace them with the new models I could. You have basically watched me waste some time. I really tried to do things on a strict budget but I blew right out of that like everyone said I would.

So I am thinking of focusing on the hero models for everyone now. Well, the ones I haven't already built. I am going to try to make the armies centered around the hero models, which means a Hero General (in most cases mounted and unmounted), Hero Battle Standard, and Wizard (or Runesmith in the case for the Dwarves). In some cases I do have extra heros and they are just for character. But I guess I am making the armies more about who is leading them, versus the masses of troops they are leading. Maybe I will name some of these jokers.

So once I sort out what I am doing for everyone hero-wise, I will post pics as I finish them (I am doing some custom work for Chaos, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves which will take some time), and hopefully they inspire me to add units around them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 02, 2019, 07:13:08 PM
I've wanted to have a beastman army.  You're inspiring me further. :icon_cool: :::cheers::: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on November 02, 2019, 07:15:02 PM
Really like that beastman banner bearer. Wish I had him for my AoS beastmen/skaven chaos conglomeration.
The other unit I love is the Shagoth.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 03, 2019, 01:19:21 AM
Shaggoth is beautiful.

Also, KTG, nothing wrong with your approach, and changing it. Its not a race. :happy:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 03, 2019, 11:09:32 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49008573743_119a34c641_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009313887_624d0bb9a0_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009312492_f40f5046df_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49008569298_db36b0d830_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009310317_fa72efd0be_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49008567278_1c8382410a_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009308782_bd4feb48ba_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49009308662_b99e23a5a1_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 03, 2019, 11:23:31 PM
Oh that's interesting. :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on November 03, 2019, 11:23:44 PM
😺👆
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 05, 2019, 01:25:35 AM
So my Empire General was really bugging me and I had to do something. The legs on the guy are pretty static, and look fine from the front, but my guy was looking off to the side, and his feet both facing 45 degrees to the left looked dumb. So I carefully cut off his right foot and re-attached it at an angle. Came out pretty good.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49016421377_4a8707dfb4_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49015698278_d014c7de48_z.jpg)

Much better. Subtle, but it looks more natural. I would have gone further, but where the foot goes the knee kind of follows so I didn't want to over do it. Now I am really excited about the guy.

Also, I have had some problems with Standard Bearers falling over. I struggled to find some kind of weight to put under the stand and considered everything from magnets to sinkers, but at Home Depot today decided on washers. They come in all sizes and I got perfect fits for the 20mm base and the 25mm bases. Spray painted black and they will hardly be noticed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49016217701_85831c2191_z.jpg)

I say hardly noticed because despite what is going on top of the base, what is under it bothers me too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 05, 2019, 02:09:45 AM
Excellent! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 05, 2019, 08:45:37 AM
Good work on that General. Subtle change but matters a lot. :)

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 06, 2019, 03:40:53 AM
Guys, need advice.

Working on my Orc Battle Standard. Nothing fancy, just the kit.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49021456013_15bfd7366c_z.jpg)

However the head I was going to use has really big horns, and I was thinking of giving him the facemask. But I was wondering, would the large horns on the standard bearer look out of place if the main Orc Boss has smaller ones? I was thinking the bigger and badder the orc, the bigger his horns or stuff would be, like a sign of status. The problem is if I did a head switch, I would also would have to swap out the Big Boss's arm since the horns would be in the way. And I have to be honest, I am a big fan of the older Big Boss. Should I look for a different head? I do have extras. None as impressive as the one I am using though.

What would you do?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 06, 2019, 02:41:25 PM
I WANT SOME ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on November 06, 2019, 03:20:49 PM
I like the big horns. More orky. Might spike a head on one em😺
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on November 06, 2019, 03:21:44 PM
Well, there are some that say that size does not matter....
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 06, 2019, 04:39:20 PM
Too early in the morning.  I am now awake, but way too much work in front of me to provide an opinion currently. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 06, 2019, 11:46:13 PM
I like the big horn head. But I also like the body with the wolf skin on the shoulders. You could always use a black orc head for an orc boss though too. How many instances of those heads do you have?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 07, 2019, 02:43:08 AM
The head that is on the bearer? Two, but I am using the other as the Big Boss for my Mordheim gang. Along with another wolfskin cape body.

So until I figure out what to do with the Orcs, I am moving on to Goblins. Just finished my Battle Standard.  :icon_razz:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49026356388_7432982b5c_z.jpg)

All it is (I THINK) is the standard from the Goblins Warrior set. I got it in that mass lot of Goblin bits some time ago to make the Gnoblar Wolf Riders. I was able to buy the bits to make the unit Champion. The Standard may not look like much, but its much nicer than the other Goblin standards I got in the Skull Pass set so I think it will work.

Still pissed off about clipping that Goblin Big Boss ear! I don't think I am done with that guy.

In other news, I ended up with a bunch of random bits from the Goblin lots, and some of them are the exact models on the Fanatic sprues. Since I didn't get the instructions, I have no idea what they are. I also got a Night Goblin riding some kind of smaller ball and chain, and a upper half of a Night Goblin doing what I have no idea. They were made of resin. No idea where they came from. But anyway, I decided to do something with them, and here is what I ended up with:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49026356238_807ec6a3a7_z.jpg)

Just did it for cosmetic purposes. I figure I would litter the Goblin camp with them during a game. I have no idea the purpose of the pot, but decided to make one of the goblins look like he is brewing some crazy magic stew or something. I also added some mushrooms from other parts to put around the base. I have no idea what the snotlings (?) are for either. I thought about putting most of them on a larger, single base as their own diorama, but I thought this would be better since they all look like they are doing different things. If anyone has any idea what the heck they are all doing let me know.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49027080767_f54bf4442d_z.jpg)

The Goblin over the pot is the one that I only got a half of, and I glued him to one of the few regular Goblin legs I have. Amazing how sometimes you just have the right bits to finish a random project. Anyway, just some fun bits to add some flavor to the battlefield.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 07, 2019, 08:46:09 AM
Doesn't matter where all the parts come from or what they were meant to represent. You have done great with them!

"What on earth are the snotlings doing?" must be a proverbial question in the Warhammer world. Go figure, I guess.  :-P

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 08, 2019, 06:40:24 PM
lol, and thanks!

So I think I have decided on what I am going to do. I swear this journey has had a bunch of twists and turns.

First of all, I am so glad I went with the Battle Standards, I really like them. And they make sense that a General would have a personal banner or the overall army, and that's how I see it. Many of them are very dynamic looking and I think add even more character to the armies. I like them so much, that I have decided that the basis of all my armies is going to center around the General, Battle Standard, and Wizard. Regardless of army size, this is what I am doing. I know some of you have said that I have too many heros in small armies, but at the same time I have these figures and want to use them. I think they help bring character to my armies. So basically I am building my armies around these heros.

Next, while i was thinking about that to do with my Empire army, and what to mix and match, I decided I might split my Empire collection into two. Rather than doing all Talabheim, I would use the newer models I got for them, and use the older ones I have been working on for another city. Which I do not know. I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf which I haven't assembled yet, so I though about doing a Middleheim one, but at the same time I have a lot of leftover bitz of blackpowder weapons as was thinking maybe Nuln? I am not sure. I have the Hellblaster, which I want Talabheim to have, and then a Great Cannon and Mortar. Kind of struggling how to split those up. I don't know.

What I do know is that I am not crazy about having everything Talabheim. Just going with the newer models I have about 800 points of minis before adding equipment and magic items which is close to what I had previously set out to do. And as I have been buying more and more, I have blown way past 1000 points for some armies. The problem is, some armies, especially my themed ones, are more around 700 points like the Gnoblar and Marauders, and I have zero interest in making them larger. So I went back and see if I could divide some of the collections up and I think I can.

So what I plan on doing is going back to smaller armies, centered around the heros, built around a theme. In the case of my Chaos and Dark Elves, I plan to make pure Chaos Warrior and pure Marauder armies with their own heros, and then a standard army theme for Dark Elves, and then another based around fast-hitting Corsair raiders. Of course for larger games I could mix and match, but for the purposes of finalizing a group of models to build and paint, I thought I would do this. That way rather than just painting endless units and not knowing where they will go, I can use the models to carry the theme. At least that is the plan anyway. And in the case of the Dark Elf Corsair army, I have the Corsair commander guy, who I really had no place for in my army - I only got him because he was cheap and an interesting model. But now he will lead two units of Corsairs and some Dark Riders, among other things that fit that theme, as opposed a mix-match of various Dark Elf units. And, it will help me have a beginning and ending for each group to focus on, and having a lot of variety.

So back to smaller armies, but with more focus on theme. I think its pretty exciting.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 09, 2019, 05:11:38 AM
Lol I just counted up all my new Empire models and they come to 900 points before magic items. So I guess I am back to 1000 point armies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 09, 2019, 07:08:26 AM
Ah, but with two Empire armies, the disease has obviously taken hold. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 09, 2019, 01:33:33 PM
Smaller armies let you focus on theme. I like the approach. Theme is what kept me interested in WHFB as long as it did / does....
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 09, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
That is a good style, and a good way to put it, Warlord. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 09, 2019, 09:33:31 PM
GP that's funny about the disease taking hold. I do still would like some Flagellants.

So remember my custom Runesmith?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427150696_aee087963c_k.jpg)

Well, now he's a Battle Standard.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039256358_b5dba22dba_z.jpg)

I used two banner tops to do this. You know how the kits give you two options for a unit? Well, I just carved them up to mount the head-looking thing on top of the flag pole. Neither one on it's own was blingy enough considering the size of some of my other Dwarf standards.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039256003_b9ef734a35_z.jpg)

I had ever intention of giving him a leftover shield I have, but then read in RH that the standard bearers can't have that equipment. But there was a loop looking thing on his waist so I decided to pretend it was something to carry his axe with. Who knows, maybe that is what it's for I don't know. But I like it!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039761936_bbf7df4373_z.jpg)

So here are the leaders of my Dwarfs.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039761626_9ec231efca_z.jpg)

I have to be honest I saw GW's plastic Runesmith and will get that at some point to make up for the one I just lost. I thought about buying an actual standard guy off Ebay, but it was either $1.40 for the bits or like $30 for an official one. I went with the $1.40 because that frees up cash for something like this guy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039975802_50e9c0e065_z.jpg)

My Wood Elf Battle Standard. Everything is coming together.  :::cheers:::

Oh, and speaking of Dwarves, the Warden King is haunting me and I really want it. Looks awesome. I thought about getting that and either using the one above or him for the leader of my Mordheim Treasure Hunters. No hurry on that though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 10, 2019, 01:33:55 AM
Warden King?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on November 10, 2019, 01:41:07 AM
Warden King?

AoS replacement for wfb hero.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Cèsar de Quart on November 10, 2019, 11:07:12 AM
So my Empire General was really bugging me and I had to do something. The legs on the guy are pretty static, and look fine from the front, but my guy was looking off to the side, and his feet both facing 45 degrees to the left looked dumb. So I carefully cut off his right foot and re-attached it at an angle. Came out pretty good.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49016421377_4a8707dfb4_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49015698278_d014c7de48_z.jpg)

Much better. Subtle, but it looks more natural. I would have gone further, but where the foot goes the knee kind of follows so I didn't want to over do it. Now I am really excited about the guy.

Also, I have had some problems with Standard Bearers falling over. I struggled to find some kind of weight to put under the stand and considered everything from magnets to sinkers, but at Home Depot today decided on washers. They come in all sizes and I got perfect fits for the 20mm base and the 25mm bases. Spray painted black and they will hardly be noticed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49016217701_85831c2191_z.jpg)

I say hardly noticed because despite what is going on top of the base, what is under it bothers me too.

I have always been on the fence with this guy. I disliked almost everything about his design; I hated his proportions and oversized boots, I didn't like the head expression or the limited helmet options, the poses were very limited, the armour looks wonky and not at all (NOT AT ALL) what an Imperial general should be sporting... And no fur cloak option to make him into a Knights Panther or White Wolves Grandmaster? The only things I liked were the nice flowing cape (beautifully sculpted) and the fact that we got to have a plastic Runefang. That rocks.

And the horse, the horse was the most amazing horse I had ever seen for Warhammer.

Regardless, I'm sad they took him out of stock. RIP Imperial General.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 10, 2019, 01:36:21 PM
Yeah I know what you mean about some of the parts, and the reason I didn’t buy him early on was that he his style really didn’t fit with the other models I had at the time, the vintage models. He almost looks kind of cartoony. Then again, I think most of the newer models do. It wasn’t until I got that lot that contained the horse and some of his parts did I start to appreciate him more, and at first it was to use for Mordheim.

But once I decided to get all the newer Empire models I was all in on the guy as now I felt my older heros didn’t match the style of the newer units! He is def bulky too. But he makes up for it with that crazy hat, the crow, and some other things. It’s a shame they discontinued him because kits like his and the Elf Noble give you some nice options, where as the Sigmar Free People’s General guy is really terrible and has no horse option.

I wish they had made these General/Standard kits for all the races.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 11, 2019, 01:40:44 PM
I wish they had made these General/Standard kits for all the races.

Me too. Only Empire, Orcs, and High Elves. High Elves actually got two sets - one hero and one wizard, both foot and mounted in a box.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 11, 2019, 03:13:15 PM
Finally got around to finishing my High Elf General!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49049422117_7444171e4a_z.jpg)

So same guy, on foot, horse, and griffon. I will do the same for my latest Empire General eventually. I am unsure on which shield to use for the Elf. The shield on the back of the general on the griffon is pretty plain looking, and looks like a regular spearman shield, which I do have, but I thought I would use something a little more blingy. The other shield the Nobel kit comes with is better, but its kinda too fancy.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49049210356_9fd418bf39_z.jpg)

I have to admit, I know it makes for a nice model, but I am not 100% crazy about the smoke effect under the mage. My view is that if all the models had fancy bases, I would do it for all. But I just don't have many that have this so I am not sure if one day I try to get rid of it. I don't know. I also did without the fallen building piece for the general's horse for the same reason, although I do have an extra horse if I want to go back and include it.

I have a complicated plan for the Wood Elves, Dark Elves, and Chaos Warriors so they might take a bit. I am also looking for a Chaos Marauder-looking sorcerer. The Chaos one I have (the latest plastic one) I think is too fancy for them. I am looking for a model with furs or some kind of rougher shaman-like look. I was thinking of using some Flagellant bits to do it. We'll see.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 14, 2019, 05:01:44 AM
Nice one.

I agree with you about the smoke effect.

I am
Excited to see what you do for a marauder shaman.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 14, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
Thanks!

Yeah really excited about what I am doing with the Marauders as a whole. Thinking of assembling that army next.

I need some help with the Empire Great Cannon and Mortar pieces.

(http://solegends.com/citcat2005us/c2005usp0403-00.jpg)

So I am not sure what all the pole-like parts are for. Like I know the ramrod like thing with the cushy end would be for ramming the powder and ball down the barrel, but what about the shovel looking thing (which would be the top most pole looking part molded in the hand to the right. There is one without a hand molded to it below it, and then what looks like a smaller ramrod. I know that isn't the right name but its what I got in my head at the moment.

But most importantly, I am not sure what my crews should use when placed with the mortar or cannon.

Now the little treasure chest... tools? Gun powder? What about the barrel? I know the bucket is for cooling off the inside of the barrel before reloading, but I am also not sure which of the ramrod ones would do that. Since there are two different sizes.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Cèsar de Quart on November 14, 2019, 09:20:37 PM
So I am not sure what all the pole-like parts are for. Like I know the ramrod like thing with the cushy end would be for ramming the powder and ball down the barrel, but what about the shovel looking thing (which would be the top most pole looking part molded in the hand to the right. There is one without a hand molded to it below it, and then what looks like a smaller ramrod. I know that isn't the right name but its what I got in my head at the moment.

But most importantly, I am not sure what my crews should use when placed with the mortar or cannon.

Now the little treasure chest... tools? Gun powder? What about the barrel? I know the bucket is for cooling off the inside of the barrel before reloading, but I am also not sure which of the ramrod ones would do that. Since there are two different sizes.

Thanks!

The small pole shovel is to add gunpower into the barrel of the gun. The chests usually contain cannonballs while the barrels hold the gunpowder.

As for "what should the crews do", I prefer to have them performing some fun little theatre piece. The "Engineer is drunk again!" act, or the "Careful, the gunpower's gonna blow!" act, or the "let's all just have a rest and smoke some gunpower", my favourite.

Cannon crews are a golden opportunity to add some of that ol' wacky chaeracter Warhammer had in spades and now only the Gobbos still have in AoS.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on November 14, 2019, 11:26:41 PM
The two upper poles are sponges (identified by the fleece at the end) used to clean the cannon after discharge. The one immediatey below, as CdQ indicates, is a lantern or ladle, used to bring powder into the cannon. Below that, there are two rammers, for driving home the powder and ball into the breech, separated by the (two-pronged) linstock, which holds the match for firing the cannon. Often, the sponge and rammer were combined, one at each end of a pole.
The barrel is, as CdG says, a powder barrel, but I doubt the box is a cannon ball box. As you can see here (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=47520.msg913029#msg913029), boxes could be used for gun powder bags, but they would tend to be bigger. Given the size of the box, I suspect it just contains minor equipment for the cannon.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 19, 2019, 01:18:44 AM
Thanks guys!

I've made a rather large and somewhat embarrassing purchase, which I am happy about, just still stunned how deep I am getting into all this. Anyway, more details to come.

In the meantime, I've been working on some other projekts. As usual WFB has a lot of competition.

Some more Yamato ships from their Mecha Collection. Some of them came with smaller ships.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087157633_a2a0b52d2b_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087664766_158a99531d_z.jpg)

This red ship has some history. I got it as a birthday gift when I was a little kid from my sister who overheard some of my friends say it was stupid, and her feelings were hurt and she told me about it later. I was head over heels for this stuff just as much back then as I am now, and assured her I loved it. Well, decades later I found another and bought it for old times sakes, and when I showed it to her, she had no memory of getting it the first time.  :icon_surprised:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087157508_9d1ecfd64e_z.jpg)

And this one has been one of my favorites from this series since I saw it. These kits are only about 4 inches or so long.

Along time ago I was buying up miniature games left and right. And usually they centered around a starter set (I rarely get into games without one), and some decently sized armies to tinker with. Well back in the day I got Void 1.1. There has been three very similar editions of the game, the first being the Blue Rulebook, the second being the Purple Rulebook, and the third being the Gamebox Edition. When Void first got started there weren't very many models and the story was crafted in such a way that one army could borrow units from another that would have filled a similar spot in that army.

Anyway, as the game got more popular, more resources were put into it and they eventually gave the same army book treatment GW gave 40k and WFB. Around the time the game started diving. Ironically when there were much more and diverse models than it started with.

But the armies were getting goofy. The Viridians started riding dinosaurs when though they were equipped with power armor and flew hovercrafts. The Junkers were like roman gladiators meets Madmax.

My heart is with the Purple Rulebook and the limited number of models, and I picked up all of the starter army sets they released at the time, plus or minus a few figs. Anyway, aside from basing them (giving them the Warmachine Base Treatment, and adding some texture to them, I literally have done nothing with them for almost 10 years. Well, I was re-organizing my stuff, bumped into the Gamebox Starter set, and decided to work on them a bit. Which means priming them lol. So below are the little armies I have which are all in the same point total.

The Viridians, who are your basic vanilla army or powered suit marines. In the fluff I believe all of the human armies were once part of Viridia before they broke off.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087877417_f4c732c2c1_z.jpg)

Junkers, who reign on a harsh desert world. Lots of Roman influence on these guys. And mostly armed with short range weapons. There is a character model who is known as an Enforcer who's job it is to shoot a soldier who's unit fails morale, putting them back in line.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087664516_826f52d46a_z.jpg)

Syntha - Basically your cyborgs. Models aren't the greatest, but they have some neat elements. The vehicle in the back is a hoverbike I haven't based yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087156968_e80443f20d_z.jpg)

VASA - who are some governing body who try to oversee and manage some kind of peace I believe, but don't hold me that, its been awhile since I read up on all this. They have a really small army because the ones with the staffs and weird backpacks are really expensive. They are basically like jump packs.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087664256_e701c652a0_z.jpg)

The last one are a Koraline (I think I got that right) - The only alien army in the game. The original version of these guys depicted snake-like aliens who would augment captured humans to use as various slave warriors. Once their army book went out they went from a sci-fi theme to one of absolute horror. Gross to the point I didn't want any of them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087156718_69fd2e5b1c_z.jpg)

But even still, the original ones are really strange too. Like these assault guys with the little legs!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49087156523_2aee9854df_z.jpg)

Weird!

Anyway, more on my WFB in a bit. Going to be busy the next couple of weeks so prob wont have much to offer till Dec.

AND I KNOW YOU WANT TO SEE SOMETHING PAINTED AS OPPOSED TO PRIMED! I MOVE REALLY SLOW ON THAT. I guess I like assembling more than I do painting.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 19, 2019, 03:46:20 AM
Has anyone ever been part of or seen a Vampire Counts vs Tomb Kings? Was that fun or what.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 19, 2019, 05:50:35 AM
Love the short glimpses into your hobby and some less known games/minis!

I've got a bunch of the lizard-riding guys from Void. Junkers? A bit goofy models as you said. There are some unopened blisters free for taking at the local club, but no-one wants them. Not a popular brand at all over here.

A little bit of the same with Warzone, another competitor to 40K. Got Bauhaus an Cybertron for that game. Never played though.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 19, 2019, 04:54:58 PM
Thanks! I am still figuring out what secondary hobbies you guys have, so I am never sure how appreciated some of this stuff is. Most of what I see is very 40k/WFB centric. But if this is appreciated I will keep doing it.

Yeah I wouldn't recommend Void 1.1 today. As a matter of fact I was considering getting rid of it some time ago, but I don't really have much, and everything fits in the Gamebox, so its easy to store.

I tried really hard to get into Warzone. I did love the demons with guns thing, but the rest of the armies were really silly. Like a British corporation, German, etc, but what I did love was the WWI theme in the designs. But a lot of the early models were the goofiest around. The later models got much better, but the army lists were just odd. I eventually gave up on it and sold my entire collection. But that starter set was pretty impressive in its day.

So to give you some more insight as to what WFB has to compete with in my life I will share some more pics. Its interesting as I was thinking about writing this post, I gave some thought as to how I got here, and thought it was worth telling. I am originally from Miami, Florida, but in about 4th grade my family moved all the way to Singapore, and there is really where I discovered models, and the 1/76 Matchbox kits I posted earlier. All of asia is crazy about model kits. I was there for a year, then we moved to Hong Kong.

Hong Kong was some of my favorite days as a kid. It was still an British Colony at the time, and so there was a nice mix of east/west going on. But around this time Gundam had been out for awhile, as well as Macross and many other robot anime shows. There were robot toys and model kits everywhere. I grew up on Diaclone before they became Transformers, Dougram, Macross, and Crusher Joe before they became Battletech and Robotech. So while my American cousins were playing with Star Wars, GI Joe, and Transformers, I was knee deep in some of the coolest toys around. I used to take a taxi from our apartment up halfway up the mountain overlooking the harbor, shop downtown for a couple of hours hitting all the toy and model stores, then visit my Dads office before taking a taxi home, all at age 12. Would never allow a kid to do that here in the US. It was a very different time. I was there for 2 years and loved it before we moved to Indonesia for 3 years, which I hated.

Indonesia didn't have much going on at the time. Now I am sure they have 200 channels on cable TV, but when I lived there there was 1/2 hour of news, 1/2 hour of cultural dances, and then an hour of some US TV show dubbed in Indonesian, like the old TV show CHiPs. Or Scooby Doo. Then snow for 22 hours. And no vast amounts of toy stores to buy things at like in Hong Kong. But what I did find in Indonesia at the little grocery stores were these mini model kits made by a Japanese company called Morinaga, as shown below (unassembled and my finished one of the Galbaldy-Bs (Lila Milla Rira's version) from Z Gundam).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090011277_6cf88f7335_z.jpg)

Each box came with a little model, which came with another box of terrible tasting candy (I would literally throw away the candy and only keep the model). The cool thing about these little kits were that they didn't require glue to assemble, and some were pretty articulated (the one above is poseable at the shoulders, thighs, and knees). The best part was they only cost $1, so when I earned some allowance I would ride my bike to the store and buy a few. They were packaged in blind packs, so you never knew which one you were going to get. Most of what I got back then was from Gundam, but I discovered in later years they made these kits for most of the anime series at the time.

Size comparison with the finished model next to an Empire General for size comparison.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090011877_962cc011ed_z.jpg)

And the general next to a 1/144 Zaku kit (waiting to be painted as usual) alongside its 1/300 Morinaga counterpart.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089299188_72e06ec5b5_z.jpg)

Anyway, I loved these kits, along with others around that scale. When I was a kid, in school we sat at these desks where there was a shelf under the desk to store your books and supplies. The teacher couldn't see from her point of view and I would have matchbox cars, army men, you name it in there. Anything I could fit in my pocket was awesome. And living overseas, since we traveled so much, I usually had to entertain myself in hotel rooms or car trips that I didn't want to be on, so I have to stuff my bag with a lot of variety to keep me occupied so I didn't go insane.

Well that still kind of influences me today, and plus I don't have a lot of time. I went through the bigger kit phase like most people but I limit my storage and display area to my home office. You would never know from being elsewhere in my house that I have all this shit. And when people come over they are typically wowed by my office. Even my friends who hate most of this stuff can't keep themselves from going in there. But I also have a collection of old movie posters too. Originals. I have an old rare Star Wars one from the late 70s that if my house was on fire, I would run in to save it. Everything custom framed.

Anyway, one of the problems I had as a kid traveling so much, was when I actually did have money and found something I wanted, my mom would say, 'save your money and you might find something else you want later', and guess what, I typically didn't. And then when I did get them, eventually I took it all for granted and blew up hundreds of kits by strapping them to bottle rockets, shooting them up with BB guns, or literally setting them on fire as I re-enacted battles in the backyard.

When we moved back to the US it then dawned on my that I would probably never see most of these things again, and I regretted everything I did. I found some sellers here and there who sold some kits I built as a kid, but they were hard to find. It wasn't until eBay that I was able to hunt down everything on my wishlist, and man did I buy.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089297783_7229d1e109_z.jpg)

I am after very specific things too. So each of these purchases was its own hunt. The idea was, 'I don't have time to build everything now, so just get it when you find it, and build it later when you have time'. All I'll have to do is go to the closet.

I also eventually got lucky and found a guy in Japan who would help me hunt down items over there, or bid on Yahoo Japan Auctions for me, for a 20% fee. I sent that dude $1000s of dollars. And, eventually got all the Morinagas I had as a kid and many others I didn't know about.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089806686_cd7f4be6da_z.jpg)

I am not going to lie, some of these that sold for $1 back in the day I paid $80 for. Not many, some I bought in big lots and ended up with many duplicates. I have hundreds of these now which is really way to many. Enough to where I am making custom kits and so on. But not having these ate at me for a couple of decades, so as silly as they might look, having them really brought me back to those days as a kid, being bored in a shitty country and killing time with what few toys I could find.

So I build lots of other small kits from that time period too, like these below, from Dougram.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089298903_d80fe8879f_z.jpg)

Some of you will recognize these from Battletech. Shadowhawk and Battlemaster I think. At any rate, these took a great deal of hunting down too. Some of my most prized models, along with 1/200 scale Macross kits. I just don't have a lot of time, nor want a ton of space dedicated to any one thing. I could build a big model, then get bored of looking at it, and then what. I prefer variety.

I should note too, that I rarely care about the stories these robots are from. When I lived overseas, I didn't speak/read the languages, and sometimes could see the shows on TV, but I had no idea what was going on, so I made my own stories up. To this day I don't care, I am a sci-fi fan, and a huge technical design fan, so I am a fan of the design first and foremost, and maybe care a little about the shows they come from. I have to be honest I think most suck. I am really not an anime fan so to speak, just love spaceships and robots.

Sometimes I spend a great deal of time on these little kits, which are old and don't have polycaps like the new ones do. Polycaps are rubber joints they place in shoulders and elbows and such for movement. Many kits are really poseable, but overtime plastic on plastic wears away, making them loose. Sometimes they are lose right away. So I have experimented with plumbers tape, superglue, green stuff, you name it, to try and make joints tight. But sometimes I just have to make my own polycaps. So below you can just see inside where I mounted one in the chest.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090011557_98e79408e9_z.jpg)

And replaced the original arm joint, with a plug that will fit into that whole.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089807441_1208c6a04d_z.jpg)

So if I do it right you never know what I did.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089807331_43991852dc_z.jpg)

Dougram was one of my first loves, and I have a whole shelf dedicated to it. As a matter of fact, while in college I made my first website called Dougram.com, which purpose was to find other Dougram fans and try to share info on. Met some really great peeps back in the day. Eventually I stopped maintaining the site and let the domain expire. Once I had all the info I lost interest I guess.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090010542_016afecb93_z.jpg)

For those in the know, yes, there is a Battle of Kalnock under that Battle of Stanrey. For those not in the know, these are the games that inspired Battletech. A company called Twentith Century Imports used to import them into the US with a brief translation of the rules, and FASA picked up on them and used them as a basis for Battletech, using the kits TCI was importing for their first designs (now known as the Unseen). These two games, especially in the condition they are in, are some of my most prized games.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8780/battle-stanrey

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14165/battle-kalnock

So I have a lot of interests and projects and stuff getting backed up. Once and awhile I focus and finish one or two. But it isn't often. I tend to build to get me to the painting stage, where things kind of pause.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49090011482_b50d4c0a3f_z.jpg)

Man I need to dust that warrior's base! lol

Part of the problem is that in order to paint I really need proper lighting and a prepped area, none of which that really works in my office area, as you can see from the lighting in my pics. But assembling I can do anywhere. Couch in front of TV, patio, even on vacation. Some peeps sit and smoke pot or watch TV, I tend to work on something with my hands. While I have a tackle box where I store everything, all it really takes me to build is what is below, most of which fits in that box.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089297553_99af3aee6a_z.jpg)

So I just take this around with me. When I am done I assemble something else. When I get the urge to paint then I will pick one of them out.

And things do pile up. It tends to go that way, as when I see something on my wish list I just get it, knowing it might be hard to find it again. Thanks to my mom and living overseas. So this also means I tend to over-buy too, and then have to clean out some things. I tend to build up things kind of modestly in most cases, like to get a nice taste of something but not obsessively get everything. Before my dive in WFB, the most I bought into was Epic, which I literally have 1000s of models for and played the shit out of. WFB is only the second game I have every bought this much for, which is why things like Battalion/Battlefore/Starter sets are so important to me as they will have to sit for some time before I get around to them, and I don't want things cluttered.

Familiar with 1/144 F-Toys? I finally finished all my kits recently. I love WWII fighters. I even have two Finnish ones in there!  :::cheers:::

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49089806271_2b0bcdfd94_z.jpg)

EDIT: GOD DAMN MY MODELS ARE DUSTY. So embarrassed. Going to have to do some dusting soon. Which you can imagine is going to be a major pain in the ass. But I took these pics in the morning before work and was rushing and still kind of dark. Forgive me. I am neglecting miniatures.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 19, 2019, 06:55:10 PM
Quite the collection.  Interesting to see the robot models, although doubtful I'd ever get into those, there's just too much else on my plate, and what is has ties to my past, just like these to your's.  Like seeing the WW2 planes. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 19, 2019, 07:45:12 PM
Another thing I really love is your "life story of miniatures", and the experience of what was available, when, and where.

Myself, I was a military modeller and model railway builder as a kid. Finland did actually have lots of stuff available, at least in the capital shops. I even remember most of those Japanese robot kits. But not everything was to have here, and it was often expensive.

My parents took the family to holidays in central/western Europe, ofcourse Sweden, but often Germany and also England. I saved for these trips, and my dad was quite free-handed during the trips, and so I brought bags full of models and railway stuff from these trips. Ah, the nostalgia!

As a kid and teenager, I was very diligent to build & paint & play what I bought. I didn't have tons and tons of stuff, but I had a lot of finished stuff. Then I moved to RPG's and books and soon afterwards moved from home, and left all my old stuff at my parents. I guess it's still there, somewhere, thickly painted and worn down. Both of my model railways were sold, but my dad still keeps the 'N' scale town houses on exhibit. Maybe some day I'll use them for something again?

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 23, 2019, 06:16:55 PM
Man I would get on the phone with your parents and make sure all that stuff is still there to rummage through the next time you visit!

So I did this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49111461307_0789945407_c.jpg)

I know its starting to look like I've lost my marbles. Or maybe I am right on schedule according to some of you. I realize now after a year of this and all these posts, that if I could do it all over again knowing what I know now, I just would have bought the 6th edition rulebook, Ravening Hordes, and all of the Battalion sets. Maybe the 6th starter. Not that the 7th and 8th starters aren't nice, and certainly did have great influence on me, I think I would have preferred to just stay in 6th.

The rules, the atmosphere, skirmish and siege, its a pretty comprehensive rulebook and certainly offers me more than the later editions, even if the later editions are nicer books. Plus all the annuals and so on that came out in its day.

But after the news of The Old World coming out, and my recent purchase of that detachment set, and looking at all the work you guys are doing in the Brush and Pallete section, I realized most of my stuff I started out with was looking really aged, and I was also thinking that I will probably be interested in doing at least two Empire armies. Well, at least have the minis now in case I wanted to.

I also picked up the plastic Battle Wizards pack. The older 2-pack not the Sigmar 4-pack.

I've certainly come a long way from this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49111461002_46403a2956_z.jpg)

When I tried to keep things small and on a tight budget. Those Knights were second-hand and were in terrible shape. It took a lot to get them to look normal. And then buying those random lots to salvage parts turned out to be a waste since I really aren't happy with most of the models. I'm going to try and salvage my Swordsmen though, using the leftover sword arms from the newer sprues as I will be making one unit of Swordsmen and one unit of Halberds, so I will have extras. But the crossbow men are garbage. Not sure what I will do with them. Maybe salvage some of them for parts. I do have an extra Battle Standard to give these guys too. I was so proud of these guys originally.  :|

So I guess I kind of have three Empire armies if I limit myself to around the amount of points I initially attempted to do. So this means I have three different cities I can do. I know one will be Talabheim and I will use the newer models for that. The other two I don't know.

I went from having very little to having a lot, I have some 4 sets of Knights.  :eusa_wall:  3 Great Cannons/Mortars. The Hellblaster. At least 10 10-man units (3 Swordsmen, 1 Spearmen, 3 Handgunners, 2 Halberds, 1 Greatswords). Enough heros and wizards to spread around. Kinda too much to be honest, but I think what I will do is do one Empire army now and then the second one after I have built all the others. Hopefully I will know more about the other cities and will have another favorite by then. I did give some thought of selling some of the models that aren't doing it for me and put that cash for something else, but I am finding that I am regretting selling what I have sold already.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 23, 2019, 06:24:21 PM
Clearly a Empire centric hobbiest in the making! :icon_wink: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on November 23, 2019, 11:58:22 PM
Using some leftiver sprue and some creative modelling, you can actually make a cannon and a mortar from one kit, and using some extra state troop bodies (perhaps the 7th ed crossbowmen bodies) you can build more crewmen...

Have a read and think about what province you like.
There are minor fluff changes between editions too.
In 5th edition, Hochland was quite wealthy. Then it because a bit backwater.
Middenhiem, Ostland, and northern provinces would have a more ruggard, snow and fur look.
Marienburg were wealthy, and succeeded from The Empire, so technically not Empire if you want to take that route.

If you wanted to go further, you could convert the extra models into a dogs of war or kislevite army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 24, 2019, 03:06:33 PM
Talabheim being the capital of Talabecland, your army could be comprised of both the red & white as well as the red & yellow.  Although having another province to have reason for cross border disagreements and games on the table top could be good, if your into creating fluff for your armies.

Perhaps Chaos invasions, like the horrible SoC, have impacted Hochland's wealth level as 6th edition moved forward.  Ostland was decimated by Chaos as well.  Middenheim and Middenland tend to be centered around Ulric.  And of course there are places like Ostermark and Stirland as other possible neighbors to have as allies or enemies.

I've got my main Averland force positioned to defend against Stirland.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 25, 2019, 01:43:18 AM
Is there a good source that summarizes all of the cities? I have to be honest I haven’t found the 6th army book all that comprehensive.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 25, 2019, 04:04:32 AM
Well there are both provinces and cities.  Google a map of the WFB Empire, that might be a good place to begin.

If I recall, the main independent cities are Altdorf (the Imperial capital in Reikland), Nuln (near Wissenland and Averland), Marienburg (up on the north west coast.

The provinces are Nordland, Ostland, Middenland, Hochland, Stirland, Ostermark, Reikland, Talabecland, Stirland, Averland, Wissenland.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 25, 2019, 05:16:39 AM
Just found a YouTube channel which spends an episode talking about each province! Looks like it is related to something called Total War. I should finish them in a couple of days.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 25, 2019, 12:22:10 PM
Becareful.  All sorts of fluff sources out there on the provinces and such.  Beware, some of it is made up, which is ok, although even the GW material is a scattering of disjointed material.  However, generally speaking there is material out there that can be considered cannon, so to speak.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 25, 2019, 01:11:31 PM
Crap that sucks. Well, I am 25 minutes into this:

https://youtu.be/erqTCBe3oXE

It’s an hour and a half long, and it’s just on Reikland. I hope it’s legit, I want to watch the rest.

I can see why you are all Empire fans. Quite the history GW created, I am so surprised they ended it all. Sigmar seems like a terrible replacement, especially with all of the various races grouped together into those Forces. Just seems dumbed down. The old world had politics and all that, and feels pretty grounded. The only thing I knew about Riekland was what I read in Mordheim lol.

You old timers must have been crushed by the End Times. I can see why GW did it, for a couple of reasons, being too closely tied to other IPs, and then sales, and then creative destruction, but what they came up with doesn’t seem to be able to stand in the shadow of what they spent decades developing. I wonder if there is an old thread here of the end times as it was happening...

Anyway, very cool.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 25, 2019, 01:28:03 PM
Many of the old timers weren't happy with the End of Times.  Enough said here though, there's other threads where we were ... beating a dead horse, so to speak.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on November 25, 2019, 10:24:19 PM
Of course, you could look here.   :closed-eyes:
Especially if you are investing in the 6th Edition.

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?board=74.0

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 26, 2019, 12:45:37 PM
None of the Old World ever went away, though. The books and minis didn't vanish overnight. You can read and play and have fun with the Old World even without 'official support'.  :happy:

Actually, you can use the Old World background in most 'alternative' games around. Choose the game, choose the setting, win-win.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 27, 2019, 01:35:58 AM
I agree.  Can't wait to do Dragon Rampant in the Old World! :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 01, 2019, 10:16:14 PM
Okay so I did a lot of thinking an organizing, and I decided to keep what I have been working on for my older Empire models. I essentially have enough newer kits to make 1000 point or so Empire armies, so I thought I would try to do something with the older models I worked on for the last dozen pages. I ended up sticking to my original plan for them, which was to just create a small army with.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49154195531_6bbd75ef45_z.jpg)

Remember those swordsman I made? Newer bodies, older arms and shields? Well, for my newer armies, I wanted to use the older shields to I took them. In addition, the newer State Troops sprues comes with both swords/halberds/spear options as you know, and since I plan on doing a unit of halberds for each army, I had the sword bits left over. So I removed the old arms, and put the newer swords and shields on them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153695188_e0247efb55_z.jpg)

I have to be honest, I really like the smaller shields. I didn't think I would. Most of these models were second-hand, back from when I was trying to do this on the cheap, and I am not sure how they are going to turn out when painted (especially the crew for the cannon - they were a real mess). All the brake fluid soaking to strip the paint took some toll on the detail, as well as some just have paint I couldn't remove.

But I also just eventually accumulated so many newer models still on the sprues that I wasn't as crazy about keeping these older ones I was experimenting with, but I am glad I did. I am going to play the hell out of this little army so I can learn the rules. Plus I need to get my feet wet painting again, and prefer to have some practice runs than to ruin some minis that are getting really hard to find.

I also got around to finishing this guy. I like this guy as much as my general, and he's pretty much exactly as you see him on the back of the 6th edition box. I made him on foot as well as mounted as I do for my heros.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49154401512_64263c25bd_z.jpg)

I have been buying more stuff and have actually some dups for some of my armies, like the Orcs and Skaven (which I also have a lot of second-hand models for). Enough to make opposing armies for this Empire army and leave the original stuff I got to work on down the road. My loose plan before was to build all the armies from the starter sets first before moving on to the Battalion sets, but now I am just going to focus on a more narrow goal of assembling 2-3 small armies like I originally planned, painting them, and playing some games to learn the rules and hopefully provide a little battle report or two.

I was in such a rush with no real plan before, so I am excited I have some focus now.

Also, I have finally finalized all the parts I needed for my Reikland and Marienburg gangs for Mordheim. I've been working on this for some time, but have managed to get better and better parts and I am finally done. I am super stoked about both gangs. I have developed their backstory and all. The Reiklanders are disillusioned former soldiers who have gone into business for themselves. Since they are still recent soldiers, they have many of their former gear and a mix of new, so still looking and acting like a military unit, led by their former commander. I have back stories for all the models, my favorite being the former dummer boy turned Youngblood, who is a budding psychopath. The Marienburg gang is kind of comical, led by a coin-hungry merchant who's relationships with powerful Marienburg bankers has gone to crap, so he has to supplement his business with side hustle trips to Mordhiem. His champion carries the money and guards it with a Blunderbuss, and his two delinquent nephews (who typically cause more problems then they are worth) are his Youngbloods. I have all the bits to make 4 really lavishly dressed heros, and then other bits to make the cheap and expendable dock thugs they employ. Very different looks within the same gang.

Don't want to reveal too much before I am done. I will prob start painting the Reiklanders very soon. Wont be posting any pics until I am done.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on December 02, 2019, 08:35:15 AM
Good plans.

Also, the Mordhiem stuff sounds exciting and interesting.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on December 02, 2019, 11:29:51 AM
Looking forward to seeing the Mordhiem dudes.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 05, 2019, 01:28:33 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49172280203_1cfeb11ec3_z.jpg)

Got him.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 09, 2019, 02:32:05 PM
Interesting update for you today.

First, I bought all of the Battalion boxes. I mean, I now have a Battalion box for each army. Even the armies I had gotten in the starter sets. I have been thinking about things, and even though I am set on small armies and units of minimum models, I came to the realization that someday I will probably want to tinker with larger units, and boxes like the High Elf Battalion set came with a ton of minis (I know there are different versions of this set, I got the one with 20 spearmen, 20 archers, chariot, and bolt thrower). This also means I have some dups in my collection so I am going to sell some things to trim down. This also means I got the Orc and Goblins set with the newer Boarboys. Not super crazy about them, but I know they are better models than the older ones.

One of the sets I recently got was the Skaven set, which to be honest, has everything I already mostly got in Island of Blood. I even made my own Packmaster and Giant Rats, and bought those 10 Plaguebearers. I wasn't crazy about the IoB Rat Ogres though, so I wouldn't mind having newer ones. This set tends to go for a lot on Ebay, but I managed to score a set that was opened, partially assembled, and pretty cheap considering. Most of the clanrats were assembled, and I feared the worst, but on Saturday I sat down to see who could be salvaged, and it turned out, all of them could be. Thankfully those sprues came with both the hand weapon or spear option, so with plenty of weapons still on the sprues, I was able to swap out the assembled ones (which had all sorts of problems) with new ones. Love the Rat Ogres and Beast/Pack masters. So this leaves me with a ton of Skaven I really don't all need, but I sort of have a plan for that.

So as I am working on my Skaven on my patio, my sister and friend are over and my sister spots one of my dogs coming out of the bushes looking suspicious and we hear a faint squeal. He's a big hunter and he's killed some things in the past which I am trying to get him to stop. So I yell at him and he and the other dogs circle this thing in the grass and I come running over and its a baby rat. I picked it up and it couldn't have been more than 2 or so weeks old, he was terrified and even tried to bite me but he didn't have the strength to even pierce my skin that's how young it was.

I doubt my dog dug up its burrow, so either something happened to the mom and he desperately went looking for food, or he might have moved away from the litter, got cold, and followed the warmth of the sun and left his burrow just enough for my dog to find it. I have no idea where the burrow is. We have Roof Rats and Norway Rats in my area, but my moronic neighbors have been killing all the Coral Snakes they can find (even I accidently ran over a Corn Snake backing out of my garage  :icon_cry:), that I wouldn't be surprised if the rat population is up. We all have bird feeders so I am sure they feed on the seeds on the ground.

Some of you may have seen my post somewhere about me rescuing animals so whats next shouldn't come as a surprise. I have all the stuff to raise this thing, except for some formula that I ran out and got, along with a few of those mini mice toys things for cats for him to curl up to over the heat pad. My friend suggested I feed it to my snake, but I said I am not going to condemn something so young to die. My view is that everything should get the chance to live to adulthood. So it doesn't matter to me if its a puppy, duck, lizard, bird, elephant, whatever, even a rat, should make it to adult or its a tragedy.

I am off work this week, had some plans to do some things around the house, but this little guy has highjacked that. Its a good thing I am off too, since little guys like this pretty much need round the clock care.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49192935683_fc8d0899b3_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49193437696_512a3d250e_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49193436996_b9119b1432_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49193436616_161ffd1e3b_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49193436501_f65e32f345_z.jpg)

I mean, its a sign when you are working on your Skaven army and a baby rat in need shows up. Who am I to piss off the Horned Rat? Better yet, its prob best I don't.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on December 09, 2019, 02:57:34 PM
If you're going to sell items, can ya list him here in the Trading Post section before unloading them elsewhere?

Oh, and did ya get a Bret battalion box, too?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 09, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
Oh I got that a long time ago. The ones I purchased recently were for the armies that came in the various starter sets.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on December 12, 2019, 01:14:02 PM
Its a cute rat. Makes sense to me.

Also, I have heard feeding live rats to snakes can cause damge to your snake if its not an experienced killer. And generally if its a ‘bred’ snake, rat teeth and claws can cause scarring on the snake’s skin too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 26, 2019, 05:21:51 PM
I got Flagellants for Christmas!  :::cheers:::

Will be providing a big update shortly. Its kinda long and still working on it.

Also, the poor baby rat didn't make it. Died about 5 days after I found him. Took his last breath in my hands.  :icon_cry:  Can only speculate as to why.

Rescuing animals so young is hard.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on December 28, 2019, 12:05:28 AM
Damn that sucks... perhaps the wrong timing, but did you then feed it to your snake?

Plastic flagellants I assume? They are the best models IMO. I think I got about 100 of them. Literally. I know 30 are in my sigmarite army, 30 are Chaos cultists, a few are mixed into conversions in various things, and I still have about 30 left.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 28, 2019, 02:51:33 PM
No I buried the rat in a box with his stuffed animals in my backyard. Poor little guy. Its always sad to me when the young don't make it to adulthood. Not really sure what happened. I don't know if my dog had injured him internally, or something else. He just went from what seemed like fine to terrible overnight.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49287406961_50b38bcc5e_z.jpg)
(Literally moments before he passed)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49287406786_9e2634d358_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 28, 2019, 03:50:52 PM
As far as the flagallents, I got the plastic ones. You have 100?!?!?! Holy crap. Yeah I will never have more than 10 lol.

Also, I prefer plastic over metal when I get the option. They look like they are going to be fun. The models look great on the box at least. I did pick up an extra as bits to make a Marauder Shaman I haven't started yet.

I was wondering about who to give the flagallents to. I have literally gone a little overboard with the Empire, and own 2 of the newer Battalion boxes, as well as the Detachment box I got some time ago I posted about. I gave some serious thought about screwing my plan of making minimum unit sizes, and just go with how all of my Battalion sets come, but one of the things that turned me off from doing that was the cavalry. Like the Empire comes with 8 Knights, Brettonions 8, Wood Elves 8. My Silverhelms come with 8. But some armies I only have 5 like the Chaos Knights, Marauders, Dark Elf Cold Ones, Lizardmen Cold Ones, etc, and I want to keep things somewhat balanced and while I thought it would be cool having this big blocks, as the game intended, I really do not want to buy anymore models, especially to fill on those other cavalry units. Plus, between 2 boxes of 8 Empire Knights, I can build 1 unit of those Reiksguard (?) looking Knights, 5 Knights of the White Wolf, and then 5 Knights Panther, who I really don't even like, but decided it would make things interesting for me. This also means I am going to use the leftover Knights that came in the Brettonian Battalion, add in few extras, and make a Knights Errant unit to go with my Knights of the Realm and Squires. Much more fun than doing them all the same unit.

So anyway, what I have ended up with are basically 2 full 1000 point Empire armies if I go with basic unit sizes, as well as another based around that detachment set. And all this excludes those initial Empire models I have been posting. More on that in a minute.

So I have the following as a base for 3 Empire armies:

General
Wizard
Battle Standard
10 Swordsmen
10 Halberds
10 Handgunners
Great Cannon
5 Knights (either being the Reiksguard, White Wolf, or Panther)

In addition I have the Hellbaster, Mortar, 10 Greatswords, 10 Spearmen, and 10 Flagallents.

So what I thought at first is give:

General
Wizard
Battle Standard
10 Swordsmen
10 Halberds
10 Handgunners
Great Cannon
5 Knights (Reiksguard) I Know I am not spelling this right! At least I don't think I am.
10 Greatswords
Hellbaster

to Talahbeim.

Then:

General
Wizard
Battle Standard
10 Swordsmen
10 Halberds
10 Handgunners
Great Cannon
5 Knights (White Wolf?)
10 Flagallents
Mortar

to who???

and the last being somewhat incomplete for now:

General
Battle Standard
10 Swordsmen
10 Halberds
10 Handgunners
Great Cannon
5 Knights (Knights Panther)
10 Spearmen

to who???

But I don't know which province to give the last two too. I guess if I am going with the White Wolfs, do Middleheim? But I am not sure where Flagallents would mostly be. I mean, is there a particular province they would be found in? But the White Wolves and Flagallents all look a little rough, so though it would be a rough looking Empire army lol.

The last army is pretty generic looking and I am not sure what I will add to it, but it will be a looooooooonng time before I do.

So that is where I am at on the Empire.

Some other news:

I have done a ton of assembling, and happy to report that I finished assembling some of my Mordheim gangs, AND I LOVE THEM.

Reikland
Marineburg
Orcs
… and will prob be done with Middleheim soon.

I think I knocked it out of the park at least on parts for my gangs, using a mix of older parts and new, but I am not going to post pics until they are painted, which should be done during Spring. I have enough leftover bits to make 2 more Mercenary gangs, no where near as nice looking as my primary gangs, but might be interesting filler.

I also have the Skaven to assemble (and I am lucky that when I bought the game, the seller threw in an assassin, black skaven, and warlock guy. So will be including those guys. I also have the Undead, Witchhunters, and Possessed box sets, but haven't done anything with them yet. I am really stoked about the Mordheim stuff as I have developed backstories on all the models and will share those details when I show the final products.

So, after I bought all of the WFB Battalion sets - and let me say this, I spent a ton of money this year on hobby shit. Wont be doing that in 2020. But what I did buy should hold me over for years at the rate I go. But anyway, those Battalion sets are going to serve as the base of my armies going forward, which means I have those previously assembled armies that I posted pics for earlier on in this thread. I have to be honest, much of them were done when I was really new to the hobby, and didn't know what I know now, and I am not crazy about all of the choices I made. Plus some were based on crappy second-hand models trying to go cheap, and I did the best I could. But I learned a lot. So what I decided to do is kind of leave them as my 'starter armies' and just build up 700+- armies to tinker with and learn the rules with, and when I get a friend to play, and I have one that is willing to try it out, I will use these at first. Looking forward to doing a little battle report!

You've seen most of these models before:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49287584967_991746b1c7_c.jpg)

Empire:

General
Wizard
Hero
10 Swordsmen (I swapped the arms! Hahaha so those guys went from all old school, to newer bodies + older arms, to new bodies + new swords)
10 Handgunners
5 Knights
Great Cannon

for Orcs:

Big Boss General
Shaman
Big Boss
10 Boys with 2 hand weapons
10 Arrer Boys
5 Boar Boys
Chariot (not finished yet. I LOST THE BOARS AND HAD TO BUY NEW ONES  :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall:)
Troll

BTW - since I got the newer Boar Boys in the Battalion set, I decided to give the older models to this army. I had initially decided to use the older Boars in my Orc army, but I will be hones the newer models are much better, and it was either sell these older ones or use them in this old-schoolish army. I went with this army.

And glad I did. The old models suck in that they can't line up! The elbows/feet prevent the bases from touching. I would have lost it if I sat down 2 years from now to work on my Orcs and discovered this and it was even harder to get the newer Orc boars. So when I make a movement tray for them its going to have to be a specific custom one for those stupid models. But I think the little Orc army looks fun. The Troll is from the Skull Pass set as I have the River Trolls set for my Battalion set. I actually might just do a combined Orc/Goblin army to be honest, since that is how the Battalion set comes.

So rounding out the little armies, the Skaven Battalion pretty much comes with everything the 8th edition set comes with, minus the weapon teams. I moved those to the Battalion set, along with my Doomwheel and Stormvermin, and are left with:

Chieftain
Warlock
Plague Priest (Custom)
2 Rat Ogres with Beastmaster
Rat Swarm with Packmaster (Custom)
10 Plague Monks
10 Skaven with hand weapons
10 Skaven with spears
and with the 10 other spear guys, I decided to make the Halberd-looking ones as Stormvermin. I decided to set aside the real Stormvermin for my Battalion for another day. I never liked the 8th Starter Rat Ogres either, so I am glad I got the others.

So this is where I am at. Not going to mess with the Battalion sets anymore. Going to focus on finishing the above, painting, and playing a few small games to learn the rules. I imagine that will help for later on when I start building the Battalions and who knows, if I change my mind on the detachment sizes. As you can tell I have been all over the place, but 2019 was a year of buying, and 2020 is going to be a year of painting.

I only have 2 models to buy actually. Hero models, and then I am done.

I do have those extra Dwarves and Night Goblins, but not sure what I will do with those yet. Def keeping the Miners for the Battalion set.


Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on December 28, 2019, 05:05:33 PM
Sucks about the rat,  but i am touched by your kindness to animals.  My wife and i feed the stray dogs around here. They're all friendly and love pets, just hungry.

I can see when you get to your goal,  that you end up getting enough to field 2k each and then up, i was originally only getting five armies to a good size,  now i have them all done with almost every unit in the game.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on December 28, 2019, 07:10:50 PM
Bummer things didn't work out with the rescue.  Cheers to you for trying! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 30, 2019, 01:16:03 PM
Sucks about the rat,  but i am touched by your kindness to animals.  My wife and i feed the stray dogs around here. They're all friendly and love pets, just hungry.

What country do you live in? We have no strays where I live in the US, although I am sure there are some on other areas. I always thought I would find a stray and take it in, but have never come across a dog that wasn't actually owned. The two dogs I do have a rescues but I adopted them from the county pound.

I have see pics of places with dogs running around and I would have a really hard time not actively taking care of them.

Quote
I can see when you get to your goal,  that you end up getting enough to field 2k each and then up, i was originally only getting five armies to a good size,  now i have them all done with almost every unit in the game.

Well, I think some are def higher than others, but most do hover around 1000 points. Its really only been when I really like the models did I go beyond that, like the Dark Elves. I have had to restrain myself with those guys.

But I really hate having too much and I really hate waste, so things lying around that I am not using and don't have some sentimental feelings for weigh me down like luggage. Even if they are out of sight. I have really made an effort this year to assemble many of the models I have, outside of Warhammer, just to get rid of the boxes and figure out if the kit is something I really want to keep. I just have too much shit. Imagine the enthusiasm I have shown for WFB but for a dozen different interests. It can drive me crazy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 02, 2020, 03:28:20 AM
Can anyone tell me what province the Empire Troops might be from that are on the 6th ed starter?

Trying to post a pic but none of the links are working. You are just going to have to google it!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on January 02, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
https://www.geofftaylor-artist.com/galleries/games-workshop/art/white-dwarf-250-empire-vs-orcs-and-goblins

Seems to be more generic. Judging by the colours, at least some of the foot soldiers are from Nordland (Yellow/Blue). There is a big banner in the back, but it does not seem to be any of the "official" banners.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 08, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
I AM HAPPY TO REPORT THAT I AM NOW THE PROUD OWNER OF A UNIT OF THE NEWER BRETONNIAN QUESTING KNIGHTS.

Yes, the box set ones. Only I got them without the box. Unpainted and unassembled, just no box, which I do try to get when I can, but these motherf***ers go for well over $100 on ebay so its been so hard to get them. Then randomly I found the set for $50 Buy it Now from Noble Knight Games of all peeps which surprised me as they are usually pricey, so snagged them.

I was going to use the leftover Knights I had from the Bretonnian Battalion to made these guys, but its nice to have different models. The only thing is that in RH they are armed with Lances and I these guys all seem to have swords. So I might swap out a couple of them and use the Realm Knights on the flanks with the lances. I assume in the Army Book they are like the Knights of the White Wolf? Swords as opposed to Hammers?

How does anyone use a two-handed weapon on a horse anyway?!? Doesn't seem legit.

This was the last unit on my shopping list. I am officially done. Aside from a hero model or two.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 08, 2020, 02:46:14 PM
Its fantasy, of course they use two handed swords from a horse. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on January 08, 2020, 03:36:05 PM
In reality too:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Biblia_de_Maciejowski_miniatura_h10.jpg)

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cefc0554a841ab05c5bd9e8047dbead4-c)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 08, 2020, 03:37:22 PM
That is crazy. Look at the legs laying in the grass too!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 08, 2020, 05:00:25 PM
There ya go!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on January 09, 2020, 03:29:17 AM
Sucks about the rat,  but i am touched by your kindness to animals.  My wife and i feed the stray dogs around here. They're all friendly and love pets, just hungry.

What country do you live in? We have no strays where I live in the US, although I am sure there are some on other areas. I always thought I would find a stray and take it in, but have never come across a dog that wasn't actually owned. The two dogs I do have a rescues but I adopted them from the county pound.

I have see pics of places with dogs running around and I would have a really hard time not actively taking care of them.

Quote
I can see when you get to your goal,  that you end up getting enough to field 2k each and then up, i was originally only getting five armies to a good size,  now i have them all done with almost every unit in the game.

Well, I think some are def higher than others, but most do hover around 1000 points. Its really only been when I really like the models did I go beyond that, like the Dark Elves. I have had to restrain myself with those guys.

But I really hate having too much and I really hate waste, so things lying around that I am not using and don't have some sentimental feelings for weigh me down like luggage. Even if they are out of sight. I have really made an effort this year to assemble many of the models I have, outside of Warhammer, just to get rid of the boxes and figure out if the kit is something I really want to keep. I just have too much shit. Imagine the enthusiasm I have shown for WFB but for a dozen different interests. It can drive me crazy.

I'm in Guatemala right now.  We moved here late last year.

I have an addictive personality. My transformers collection was crazy, my cd collection in high school as well.  Probably why i have a few armies close to 20k...lol. but everything is on a list and will be played. 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on January 09, 2020, 03:30:36 AM
I AM HAPPY TO REPORT THAT I AM NOW THE PROUD OWNER OF A UNIT OF THE NEWER BRETONNIAN QUESTING KNIGHTS.

Yes, the box set ones. Only I got them without the box. Unpainted and unassembled, just no box, which I do try to get when I can, but these motherf***ers go for well over $100 on ebay so its been so hard to get them. Then randomly I found the set for $50 Buy it Now from Noble Knight Games of all peeps which surprised me as they are usually pricey, so snagged them.

I was going to use the leftover Knights I had from the Bretonnian Battalion to made these guys, but its nice to have different models. The only thing is that in RH they are armed with Lances and I these guys all seem to have swords. So I might swap out a couple of them and use the Realm Knights on the flanks with the lances. I assume in the Army Book they are like the Knights of the White Wolf? Swords as opposed to Hammers?

How does anyone use a two-handed weapon on a horse anyway?!? Doesn't seem legit.

This was the last unit on my shopping list. I am officially done. Aside from a hero model or two.

Questing knights are great weapons in their book
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 09, 2020, 01:34:32 PM
Guatemala... wow you have some balls on you. I thought there was all sorts of problems down there considering all the migrants coming to the US from there.

You should start a thread telling us about that place from an expat point of view.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 14, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Hey guys, on the White Wolves spruces, there are little pendant looking things with a wolf on them. Are them meant to appear to be hanging from their neck or placed somewhere else?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on January 14, 2020, 12:59:13 PM
Your guess is as good as mine. I do not think I have ever seen a model with a pendant. The original instructions did not feature them either. The smaller would fit wel around a neck, the larger would seem a bit too large.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 14, 2020, 01:11:48 PM
One on second rider from the left of picture ... http://www.coolminiornot.com/24244
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 14, 2020, 03:12:17 PM
Ahh thanks GP! Going to do this!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 15, 2020, 04:34:06 PM
Was anyone around during 4th edition? And did you play a game with the contents of the starter set? I noticed that there are cardboard cutouts for some units and was wondering if they were for a scenario that was included in the starter, or just there as filler in case you wanted to expand the armies?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 16, 2020, 02:15:53 PM
They were filler to expand the army before you go out and buy the miniatures.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 17, 2020, 02:34:48 AM
Wow my first post here was on May 10, 2019. What a ride its been.

So you know how sometimes you get a mini you have been hoping for, and you are really excited about it? Well, that is me right now, with a lot of relief mixed in.

When I set out to make a Chaos Warrior army, I had a hard time deciding on a General. As some of you might know, I like to make the same model on foot and on a mount, and I couldn't find a generic Chaos Champion like figure that had both. I would have taken either metal or plastic too. Early on I decided to recycle one of the extra Chaos Warriors from the Battalion set, so I just need to find the parts to make a mounted version. I thought turning to the Chaos Knights would help, but despite all the amazing parts I just couldn't find a way to match. Especially as I wanted the big fur cape on him.

So just a few days ago I found this guy on Ebay and just got him, and he's perfect:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49397016646_ec461bacb9_z.jpg)

I had no idea this guy existed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49396536848_f5f51d826a_c.jpg)

So I am going to do some parts swapping obviously, using the champion sword from the Chaos Warrior Champion for the version on foot and mounted. Going to use the shield shown from the Chaos Knights set for both, and I guess add some leftover skulls from one of my Skeleton Warrior sets for the foot version's chest. I also are probably going to drill out the head on the mounted model and use the helmet shown with the skulls on the horns, for both. I know its not a perfect match like some of my other Generals, but I will take what I can get. Really happy about this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49397016541_82a0823f43_z.jpg)

So there they are, my General, Battle Standard, and Sorcerer.  :::cheers:::

I have the parts for the Marauder equivalents, but I haven't ironed them out yet, so will wait to show them. I will say that the parts I have for the Marauder Battle Standard probably make it one of my favorite Battle Standards.

So I said I only had a couple of hero models left to get and that is true. One model for the mounted Dark Elf General, and another for the Lizardmen mounted Saurus General.

Oh, and let it be known, that I finished assembling my Marienburg gang for Mordheim, and I really believe it might be my greatest work. Not showing them until they are painted. I might have mentioned them before, but I ended up having to do a little more on them and now they are done. I am finalizing the Middleheim gang parts, and hope to finish them soon. Still working out their back story and its kinda holding things up on assembling them.

Really, really stoked how much of this is turning out.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 17, 2020, 03:29:26 AM
Always wanted to do a chaos army, have been slowly acquiring some of the metal figures, and don't dislike the plastic ones either.  Your choices seem like some good ones to me as well, congrats! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 17, 2020, 01:17:11 PM
That set of metal Chaos Knights are my favourite. I love the newer plastic horses, but the riders go with the infantry so well.

Here is one I converted a while back:

(https://i.imgur.com/mUvttju.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8oZv5Ql.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DUi8lRx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1NaqcPj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QS9mhbt.jpg)

Hope it provides some inspiration.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 17, 2020, 02:19:17 PM
Very nice!

I had no idea my model was an old Knight... I prob would have taken time to look at the other Knights first had I known lol.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on January 21, 2020, 01:00:45 AM
Very nice,  i get the bsb model once i go back to Canada for a visit.  Posted my new game room set up in my thread too. They finally arrived
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 23, 2020, 01:19:08 AM
As usual, all over the place hobby-wise and just finished assembling and priming this old kit:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49427171576_9b44fab532_z.jpg)

ESCI 1/72 Panzerjaeger IV! The short barrel version.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49426700858_524acf8a70_z.jpg)

Not the greatest kit. I got a bunch of these cheap from a seller some time ago, and ended up getting a bunch of kits I typically wouldn't go out and buy, and I already had the 1/76 Matchbox version with the long barrel, and that one came with a diorama base. But I appreciate having the variety now.

I am really not a big fan of ESCI kits. Of the companies I collect around this scale, Matchbox, Fujimi, Nitto, JB, ICM, and Attack, I have to say ESCI is near the bottom. The one thing they do have going for them is the extra figures that are included, even if they aren't great, where some companies don't include any.

The weird thing about these kits is that the original owner who bought them, wrote the exact date and location from where he bought the models from! All of them I got from him were marked like this. I have no idea why anyone would do this. Maybe to reminisce? Your guess is as good as mine. Kind of touching though, the dude never got around to building this particular one from 1983, so it finally got built in 2020, 37 years later.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49426701013_7b9498cd5b_z.jpg)

Being turretless, and no MG, the tank is kind of boring. Really boring. Some of these assault gun/tank hunters I do like, especially the Stug III, but this just doesn't do much. I guess part of it is the side skirts, since they block the detail of the wheels and make it look boxy. I wouldn't have gotten this if it wasn't dirt cheap, but I am glad I have it. Since I don't care as much about it I am prob going to start painting it this weekend. I don't know why but I am always more motivated working on stuff I care lesser about and having less to lose in case I mess up.  :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 23, 2020, 02:51:03 AM
The Jagdpanzer 162 f was the designation given to this vehicle in 1944, and so this model is suppose to represent a late war version of this self-propelled gun (mobile anti-tank gun without turret).

These were first built in 1943, supposably because the Stug IIIs had performed so well at Stalingrad, and these were built on a Panzer IV chassis mounted with initially 7.5cm Pak 39 anti-tank barrels, and later Pak 42s.  The overall design was a bit front heavy since it had extra armor and the barrel's added to the front heaviness, making it tough to maneuver in rough terrain, unlike the Stug IIIs. The muzzle brake shown on this one was shown not to be needed, and not used much in the field due to it creating small dust clouds when fired that could give away the gun's position.  At first these vehicles were often used to supplement tank units, especially on the Eastern Front attacking with tanks, although this wasn't what they were good at.  Towards the end of the war they were being grouped with artillery units, like the Stug IIIs, and used for supporting infantry.

There are at least 12 known to still exist in European, Canadian, and US museums, and there was a 13th in Syria, although not sure if it is still there currently.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on January 23, 2020, 03:23:53 AM
@GP
Why?  Why do you know so much about this particular unit? 😺
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 23, 2020, 03:31:45 AM
Yeah this is very suspicious...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on January 23, 2020, 03:38:07 AM
Forgot to say KTG17, great asides to the hobby by the way. Really enjoy them.  I used to love tank and vehicle model kits from way back.
I don’t have any left now but they were fun. I don’t recognize this manufacturer either. Was more familiar with Tamiya, Airfix, Revell
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 23, 2020, 04:23:52 AM
When I was a youngster, to be able to play board wargames, or even 54mm miniatues in a sandpit, I usually had to play factions like WW2 Germans, others played the U.S..  Since then I've always been a bit fascinated with many things German military oriented.  Including Renaissance, 18th century, and Napoleonic eras.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 23, 2020, 02:03:57 PM
Forgot to say KTG17, great asides to the hobby by the way. Really enjoy them.  I used to love tank and vehicle model kits from way back.
I don’t have any left now but they were fun. I don’t recognize this manufacturer either. Was more familiar with Tamiya, Airfix, Revell

Great! Wasn't sure anyone would care, but I don't have any other place to post this stuff. None of my friends are into this stuff, I am the odd one out, so glad I can post this stuff and find others who are interested in it too.

I thought about it and have decided to stop posting in this thread, and open a new one in the Count's Tavern that is more generic and where I can post everything. To be honest I have like 2 WFB models to get, and when they are painted I am just going to post the pics in the Brush and Palette. So I think this thread served its purpose and its time to move on.

Many thanks to everyone who responded with answers to all my questions!

When I was a youngster, to be able to play board wargames, or even 54mm miniatues in a sandpit, I usually had to play factions like WW2 Germans, others played the U.S..  Since then I've always been a bit fascinated with many things German military oriented.  Including Renaissance, 18th century, and Napoleonic eras.

Yes me too. Its interesting that the German army in WWII kind of represents about as worse as humanity can get. Not saying every German soldier was an evil Waffen SS, most were just fighting cause they were told to. But its hard to think of one aspect of WWII and not think of Hitler, concentration camps and so on. But the Germans made some really cool shit. And the Nazis and their uniforms, banners, and so on are kind of mesmerizing to be honest. They make everyone else look sloppy. I can't think of a tank or plane they made that doesn't look cool. Even their ships had a distinct style to them.

This is one of my favorite airplanes of all time: the Fieseler Fi 167, meant for the Graf Zeppelin carrier that was never built.

(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/fi167-1.jpg)

(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/fi167_3v_MkI.jpg)

Its messy, a bi-plane in an era of monoplanes, slow, prob very easy to shoot down, but it just looks so badass.

I am dying to build one of these in 1/144 scale if F-Toys ever makes it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 26, 2020, 07:06:10 AM
I can move all these posts over if you like.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 01:11:33 PM
I can move all these posts over if you like.

You mean pick up the whole thread and move it?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 01:14:32 PM
WHO WANTS TO SEE MY MORDHEIM GANGS????????

I know I said I wouldn't post pics until they are were painted, but I have too much going on and are really excited about them.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 27, 2020, 01:28:50 PM
I can move all these posts over if you like.

You mean pick up the whole thread and move it?

No, its possible to split posts out.
I can split out all the WW stuff into its own thread, and put it in the Counts Tavern if you like.

WHO WANTS TO SEE MY MORDHEIM GANGS????????

I know I said I wouldn't post pics until they are were painted, but I have too much going on and are really excited about them.

Me. Definitely.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on January 27, 2020, 01:29:52 PM
Yes. Mordeheim please
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 05:34:40 PM
Okay, a few notes:

First of all, I am sorry I know my pics aren't the best. I hoped that once these were all painted I would set up some kind of studio to take proper pics with, but lets be real we're talking about me here. A lot of the detail I have given them prob wont show up in the pics so hopefully whenever I am done painting them, they will be shown off more.

Also want to say, that I just didn't slap pieces together. I really gave thought about what kind of personality(ies) I wanted and then went looking for the parts. I was lucky to accumulate a ton of bits over the last year to do these. I used a mix of the older parts with the new (I am sure you'll recognize them), and its safe to say had I not recently gone with the newer models, none of these would look like they do. So its nice how everything turned out.

Also, I used the starter gangs in the Mordhiem starter and the expansion sets like the Witchhunters and so on as guides. So most Human gangs run 8 guys, with at least one Champion and Youngblood, while others might have a few more for because they get more points (like Marienburg) or just have a higher model count due to point cost (Undead).

So here are the first 4 gangs I have finished assembling, and the stories behind each. . .
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on January 27, 2020, 05:38:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP1Xk2UcQpY





 :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 05:47:53 PM
Reiklanders

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440786473_0719deb908_z.jpg)

Konrad (Captain) - Konrad is a former general in the Reikland army, who bacame dischanted with serving after the Battle of <insert bridge name here> Bridge. A horde of Orcs was moving on to the City of Helmgart. Rather than defend the city from the walls of the fortress, Margrave Reinhardt von Mackensen made the decsion to march out to meet the horde. Konrad was assigned a few regiments to guard a small bridge while the rest of the army swung around a small mountain to hit the greeenskins from the rear, but unknown to everyone, the Orcs had moved quicker than anticipated and launched an attack against Konrad's small holding force.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441484697_6ab8f84865_z.jpg)

Konrad was aware that there was nothing between the Orcs and the unguarded town and held his ground while frantically sending messages to the main army, which turned out to be just engaging the rear of the Orc horde. The Orc horde pressed on though, and wore down Konrad's small force as ranks began to thin out. Just as it seemed all was lost, the Orcs fled, and in their retreat was smashed by the main army.

The main army was confident in their victory, believing that it was them who delivered the main blow against the horde, when it was indeed Konrad, and so many others who lost their lives, who were the true heroes of the day. When word reached Mackensen on the deeds of Konrad and his men, as well as the realization that they were not the ones to have saved the city from destruction, embarrassment ensued and few accolades were given.

Later Konrad settled in a small tavern in Helmgart, awaiting for the remainder of his force to join him, when he overheard a party of adverturers who had just arrived in Helmgart. This party, made up of a barbarian, a wizard, an elf, and a dwarf, were joyfully drinking to their recent success of finding treasure in a Orc lair in the mountains. Konrad discreetly listened as they recounted their adventure, as well as their plans for another to a nearby catacolm rumored to be filled with the undead.

When his men arrived to join him, Konrad was mostly convinced he no longer wanted to fight for an army which did not recognize not only his abilities, but also the sacrifices his men made. He asked his men if they would consider fighting for their own benefit. The discussion didn't take very long, and before sunrise, Konrad led his men out of Helmgart to the catacombs, with the intent of getting there before the adventurers.

Upon arriving, Konrad's men turned a little apprehensive, but in short order Konrad organized his small force into ranks: swordsmen in front, gunners firing over their shoulders. Ghastly creations of all kinds threw themselves as the Reiklanders as they advanced through the catacombs, which loaded with various traps, were just as dangerous as the monsters they faced. But Konrad kept the men disciplined, mantaining their formation, and slew undead after undead.

Finally they reached the final chamber which contained an ancient Liche, who rose out of his sarcophagus, freezing Konrad's men with fear. In that moment, Konrad thought of his position, his treatment in the Empire's army, the loss of his men, and what the future held for him. He gripped his sword tightly, stepped through the rank of men before him, and engaged the Liche in one on one combat. Inspired by his leadership, the rest of his men followed, screaming their warcries as they charged.

The Liche did not stand a chance.

Once the slaughter was done, they gathered some ancient treasure. It wasn't as great as Konrad had hoped, but it was enough to excite his men for future adventures, which would shortly lead them to Mordheim.

Designer Note: Konrad is essentially the OOP Empire General. I chose not to use the awesome sword that kit came with as I saw it as too heroic, which I feel more belongs in WFB, and chose to make a custom one using the Lance arm and a normal Swordsman sword.

Manfred (Champion) - Manfred was Konrad's Battle Standard Bearer. He has traded in his standard for a great weapon. The men look up Manfred almost as much as they do Konrad.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440785793_5b794c8ce9_z.jpg)

Roy (Yongblood) - Roy is the former drummer boy for Konrad's regiment of Swordsmen and a budding psychopath. Having been bullied and picked on repeatedly by Thomas, Richard, and Harold (see below) as far back as anyone can remember, this has an effect on Roy, who has become somewhat sadistic. Not as good as a fighter as the rest, he tends to follow others and finish off enemy wounded.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441484832_d613d53812_z.jpg)

Konrad is aware of Roy's disposition but isn't quite sure what to do about it.

Thomas, Richard, and Harold (Swordsmen) - If there was such a thing as war crimes in WFB, these guys would be guilty of just about all of them. It really shouldn't be a surprise that these three were the last survivors of their regiment. When not in combat they used to spend their time picking on Roy, but as of late they aren't sure that is the best thing to do as the thought of Roy slitting their throats while they slept has begun to cross their minds.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440785983_1a7b8333e8_z.jpg)

Designer Note: These guys are mostly made up of the newer Swordsmen models, and while the pictures don't show them well, the shields are actually all different. I plan on painting each shield different to differentiate the three. I also spent a great deal of time customizing two of the heads, and didn't shave down the heads as much as I should have. I really wanted to show off three different faces but I can see after the fact that two of the helmets sit too high on their heads.

Alfred and Gustav (Marksmen) - Like Thomas, Richard, and Harold, they are the last survivors of their detachment.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441257991_c194b5991e_z.jpg)

For painting, I am planning to mostly follow Reikland army colors, so a lot of white. The idea is that Konrad and his men have only recently left the army, so still have much of their army gear, but I will throw in some other colors to represent them buying additional gear after getting some loot from their earlier adventures.

I know Reiklanders benefit from having better Marksmen than the other mercenaries, and thus should have given them more gunners, but the idea was to make these guys look like a mini-WFB army themselves; unit of hand weapons, unit of ranged weapons, general, standard, etc. I really wanted three swordsmen, so all I had left was two slots of the marksmen.

500 point Roster

Konrad (Captain) - 60
 + Sword - 10
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shield - 5

Manfred (Champion) - 35
 + Great Weapon - 15
 + Light Armor - 20
 (I know the model is wearing a helmet but don't have the points to give him one - so its just a cap for now)

Roy (Youngblood) - 15
 + Sword - 10

Swordsmen (Thomas, Richard, Harold) - 105
 + Swords (3) - 30
 + Helmets (3) - 30
 + Shields (3) - 15

Marksmen (Alfred, Gustav) - 50
 + Handguns (2) - 70
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 05:58:20 PM
Marienburg

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441484442_4b4c391c6f_z.jpg)

Marius (Captain) - Marius is a well known merchant in Marienburg for a number of reasons. First, while having the talent for eyeing a number good deals involving a variety of circumstances, then making some coin, then only to lose much of it on some big bet (for example: betting on commodity futures and losing badly), then being forced to work side jobs like runs into Mordheim to pay off his creditors.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441257556_cd594af5df_z.jpg)

Marius is always accompanied by Markus, his bag man who carries all of his coin. He is also accompanied by his two nephews, Hans and Franz.

The rest of his gang is made up of street rabble and pirates found at the docks in Marienburg, who tend to be between jobs and desperate for pay. Marius always takes advantage of these guys, refusing to pay anything more than the bare minimum, as well as detailing in fine print the penalties for not fulfilling the contracts in full. This includes following orders when on trips to Mordheim. This can involve all sorts of circumstances, such as:

"Marsden! Attack that dragon from behind or I am docking 40gp from your pay!"

"Oi! But you are only paying me 35!"

"Then you will owe me 5 when we get back to Marienburg!"


Since Marius doesn't really care about these ruffians, he only spends the minimum required for them to do their job. He sees them as expendable and serve to distract or do the hard work while he and Markus go for the rewards.

Marius is actually a good tactician, but running around the streets of Mordheim isn't really what he wants to do. He seeks to be a successful and respected merchant in Marienburg, but for every one step forward, he ends up taking two steps back.

Markus (Champion) - Markus is Marius's bagman. He carries all of the money, and defends it with a brace of pistols against anyone who gets too close. Markus is famous for rarely saying a word, expect when told by Marius to 'pay the man' where Markus will then count out the coin VERY SLOWLY, much to the impatience of those in wait, and never miscounts. Most people know Markus as the guy who silently sits and listens to Marius rambling about everything over ale in one of many Marienburg's taverns.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440784698_e12a3ae361_z.jpg)

Designer Note: I had initially given Markus a Blunderbus, but after realizing I misread the rules I fell back on the brace of pistols. I really imagined him opening up with a Blunderbus on those getting too close to the money bag, but for now its going to have to be with two pistols.

Original:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441257231_d883c30687_z.jpg)

Hans and Franz (Youngbloods) - Hans and Franz are Marius's nephews from his sister. A couple of delinquents well known to Marienburg constables, Marius sister begged and pleaded with Marius to take them in and teach them how to be respectable merchants, hoping to turn their behavior around. Obviously Marius isn't quite upfront with his family with what his career actually involves.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440784138_037310b30a_z.jpg)

So one evening over ale Marius was ranting on about not agreeing with his sisters proposal when Markus, in one of the rare times during their friendship, offered a suggestion:

"Why not take them on as unpaid apprentices?"

Marius eye opened wide, and agreed to the great idea.

Marius provided them with improvements to their wardrobe to benefit his own image, but as the saying goes, you can take the boy out of the trash, but you can't take the trash out of the boy. Nevertheless, both Hans and Franz are misguidedly loyal to their uncle, often bragging to others about their trips to Mordheim to do 'merchant work'.

The Henchmen - The nameless faces of the ruffians that Marius hires come and go. Not only are they not really expected to survive, Marius hopes the do not, so he can get out of paying them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441482517_202c0a86d6_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441256496_3c5863335c_z.jpg)

Designer Note: I decided to make the henchmen look like typical pirates, and aren't painting them up in the typical Marienburg fashion I keep seeing. So this gang will look like two gangs in one, the well-dressed and colorful Marius, Markus, Hans and Franz with the big feathers, then the muted bum looking guys who make up the expendables.

600 point Roster

Marius (Captain) - 60
 + Sword - 10
 + Dueling Pistol - 25
 + Light Armor - 20

Markus (Champion) - 35
 + Sword - 10
 + Brace of Pistols - 30
 + Light Armor - 20

Hans (Youngbloods) - 15
 + Sword - 10
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shield - 5

Franz (Youngbloods) - 15
 + Sword - 10
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shield - 5

Swordsmen (4) - 140
 + Swords (40)

Marksmen (2) - 50
 + Crossbows (2) - 50
 + Axes (2) - 10
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 06:16:32 PM
Middleheim

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441260301_af7ca7136d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijXobr)

Designer Note: These guys were pretty tough for me to decide on. I really are still learning the WFB Lore and leaned more on actual historical stuff on their look. I settled on a Germanic feel to them, like a band of marauding thugs.

As I wanted each human mercenary band to be different, and to take advantage the Middleheimers get with their Champions, I opted to give these guys two of them.

I also wanted to differentiate them in weapons from the other gangs, so used as much as I could off the White Wolf sprues. That meant a lot of hammers, which I admit I am not fond of, and it to round out 500 points even I ended up taking five of them!

Valdemar (Captain) - (This is totally a work in progress) By most counts, Valdemar should be retired by now, but no one is really sure how old he is, even himself. Born in a remote northern village where his father died at an early age, Valdemar had to grow up quickly to take care of his mother and siblings.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441486272_d9de1a87eb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijYxmu)

It helped that Valdemar was a mountain of a young boy, and was admired by many in the surrounding area for his stoic presence during dangerous times. But he was curious of the outside world, and that of the empire, but had to wait until his siblings were all old enough to take care of his mother and home before he could go and explore.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440787168_bcd96a6419_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijUXwY)

While his initial motivation was to see what was out there, he began to enjoy the rewards of fortune, and for each giant wolf he slew, or Marauder he saved nearby villages from, his fame grew and grew, eventually motivating warriors in the surrounding area to join him on his 'exploring'.

It was a barbarian life style, which Valdemar and his gang excelled at. And during trips to the various towns within the empire, they were just about as quick to fight State Troops as they were enemies of the state. Before long they were forced to keep out of the cities and stay within the smaller towns, where the various local guards were really unable to do anything about them.

Designer Notes - This guy was essentially made up with leftovers from my bits box, and I am happy how he turned out. Think of the barbarian leader in the beginning of the film Gladiator, and you get a sense of what I was going for.

Boris and Ferdinand (Champions) - Two of Valdemar's champions. I don't have their back stories figured out yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441485917_f1cb7249da_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijYxfn)

Beck (Youngblood) - Some juvi who is more like tagging along. I don't have his back stories figured out yet, and I hate the head but its the only young looking one I have left. Will change it the first chance I get.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440787058_6c44a84660_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijUXv5)

Actually the more I look at his picture the more I hate him, Changes coming!

Rolf and Adlar (Swordsmen) - I thought of the TV show Vikings when I sat down to make these guys. I don't have their back stories figured out yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441486407_3c9f4784b7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijYxoP)

Designer Note - If you think you recognize the shields, yes they are the old Spearmen shields. I just scrapped off and sanded down the lion faces. Did the same for Valdemar and Boris. Not sure how I will paint these yet but will look to historic designs when I do.

Herwig and Ulrich (Marksmen) - Longbow men. I don't have their back stories figured out yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441259411_5d73b2d49f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijXnV6)

500 point Roster

Valdemar (Captain) - 60
 + Sword - 10
 + Heavy Armor - 50
 + Shield - 5

Boris (Champion) - 35
 + Sword - 10
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shield - 5

Ferdinand (Champion) - 35
 + Great Weapon - 15
 + Light Armor - 20

Beck (Youngblood) - 15
 + Hammer - 3
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Buckler - 5

Warriors (Rolf and Adlar) - 50
 + Hammers (2) - 6
 + Light Armor (2) - 40
 + Shields (2) - 10

Marksmen (Herwig and Ulrich) - 50
 + Longbows (2) - 30
 + Hammers (2) - 6

Designer Note: I think the meat of this gang is in Valdemar, Boris, and Ferdiand. Where as my Reiklanders would probably fight as a cohesive unit, and the Marienburg as a group of elites sending off expendables, I think the success and failure really rests on the big three charging head on into the fight. At least, that is what I am intending.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 06:24:47 PM
Da Mob (Da Profeshernalz)

Still working on these guy's back story. But hey, they are Orcs... what kind of story do they need?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441487747_dbc0821938_z.jpg)

Grimfang (Boss) - Haven't worked out his story yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441487222_8dc750b327_z.jpg)

Bonekraka (Big 'Un) - Think of Blaster from the movie Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. Not very bright, really angry, and everyone pretty much gets out of his way when the battle starts.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440788128_5b2ea1e58b_z.jpg)

Murgor (Shaman)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441486677_2fd03d1ecb_z.jpg)

Nozgrot and Snagrod (Boyz) - Front-line thugs

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441486917_b4a50d66a7_z.jpg)

Gogard and Gimzrot (Boyz) - Bows.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441260541_0ba2ba59fe_z.jpg)

Grozbag and Raznik (Goblins) - Goblins...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49441260776_7672dbbc89_z.jpg)

500 Point Roster

Grimfang (Boss) - 80
 + Sword - 10
 + Helmet - 10
 + Shield - 5
 + Light Armor - 20

Bonekraka (Big Un) - 40
 + Two-Handed Weapon - 15
 + Helmet - 10
 + Light Armor - 20

Murgor (Shaman) - 40
 + Sword - 10

Boys (Nozgrot and Snagrod) - 50
 + Swords (2) - 20
 + Shields (2) - 10
 + Light Armor (2) - 40

Boys (Gogard and Gimzrot) - 50
 + Bows (2) - 20

Grozbag and Raznik (Goblins) 20
 + Spears (2) - 20
 + Shields (2) - 10
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 27, 2020, 06:27:54 PM
God damn that was exhausting to write up and post.

I would like to point out that I have about enough bits to make 3 more Mercenary gangs, although nowhere near as nice pieces as I have used above. One I was thinking of doing was going to be another Marienburg gang made up of people that Marius owes money to. I might do a more normal Reikland-looking gang, and not sure what to do with the last.

I also have Skaven, Undead, Cult of the Possessed, and Witchhunters to do, but you've seen the models for most of those.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 28, 2020, 11:22:24 AM
Great writeup though!

Reikland backstory is heavy. Explains their cohesiveness. Liked the reference to either Warhammer Quest or Heroquest. Nice one.
Marienburg backstory is great. Really love the attitide of Marius, and his exploitation of his nephews, but also their pride in their jobs.
Middenhiem - youngblood - i agree, that has always been one of my least favourite heads too.

Would love to hear some orc backstory, and the backstories of the other warbands.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 28, 2020, 12:49:39 PM
Enjoyed reading all the detail on these guys.  :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::

And yes, I'm for a back story on the O&G as well!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 29, 2020, 02:01:42 AM
Thanks guys. I know the Middleheim story needs work. I kinda rushed it.

So I was looking at the 6th edition box again, and I am really thinking of painting my first Empire army in those colors, even if they aren't legit. I have enough models to make 3 well rounded 1000 point armies aside from the starter army I have been working on, and will no doubt use official provinces when I go to paint them, but I wouldn't mind doing something crazy to get it out of my system.

It looks like I could go with either blue shirts with red pants, or red shirts with what I assume would be blue pants (art isn't clear). And then the spearmen look like they have yellow shirts with blue pants. And the sleeves have those stripe things that seem to match the pants colors, although most of my models don't have those. Right now the only foot soldiers I have are Swordsmen and Handgunners. I do have those Spearmen, but I was intending on saving those for one of my other armies.

I am not sure what I would do with the knights. They are built to look like those Reikland guys I think, so not sure I would go crazy adding too much color to them.

I am also torn about going crazy on my General models, the older style ones. I really like those guys and aren't sure I would want to go crazy color on them.

But there is just something about that box lid.

I am a big sucker for starter sets. I rarely get into a game without one. And I tend to expand on the starter armies. I feel like that is where the universe starts when opening the box. I have done this especially with 40k.

If I only had one Empire army, it would be Talabheim no question, and one of my three will be. And I haven't the slightest idea what my other two will be (although I have given  Reikland some thought as I haven't seen many of them). But I also consider this small Empire army a burner army, and I really would rather not make it a Talabheim one, only to make another Talabheim one later.

And the General on the box looks like his horse is in some kind of bronze/gold color barding. Even his armor looks the same. Not crazy about that. Guess I would just make them silver.

What do you guys think? Have you ever seen anyone paint up minis that like the ones on the cover?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on January 29, 2020, 02:19:53 AM
I personally haven’t. I used Hochland. But back in the day, we had all colour scheme armies posted here both in the B&P and the EF before we created the B&P. There are the Province threads - they may have links to peoples blogs or pictures.

Red and Blue is Altdorf
Red and White is Talabhiem
Red and Yellow is Talabecland
Blue and White is Middenhiem
Blue and Yellow is Nordland

Armour can be whatever you like. Silvers, golds, bronzes, whatever you feel like. Champions and characters could have special armour, heirlooms, or regular like their troops. Whatever you fancy.
Empire has a lot more scope for colour on our core troops than a lot of other armies, which makes it fun to decide on what colour fits best. The colours (heraldry) match a province, which may also match a stype of play - much like you have identifed in your mordhiem warbands. Its one reason I like Empire - because of how deep the opportunities are for theming if you want to.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 07, 2020, 02:19:37 AM
I fixed my Mordheim rejects!!

So remember this guy?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49440787058_6c44a84660_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ijUXv5)

Well, I did some head swapping, and arm too, and created this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49498898308_a6f888d95a_z.jpg)

I think he totally fits right in.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49499624012_fbb9a05664_z.jpg)

The head came from one of my Marienburg pirate thugs, who I did like his head for that gang, but then I found a new head bit and decided it might work better, and I think it does.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49499400856_8d3604506f_z.jpg)

I think he fits right in his gang too. Now they all look very piratey.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49498902008_4366e66c51_z.jpg)

Also, I tracked down some extra bits for the Engineer looking guy who comes with the Helblaster (he wasn't easy to find for awhile), and I was wondering if I should go ahead and make Markus as I intended just for shits and giggles, or use the body for another bloke. What do you think?

I wouldn't be able to play him like this until I went through some campaign which I never will and earned enough coin to buy him the blunderbuss.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49499399271_d8dc45ec37_z.jpg)

What do you think?


Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 07, 2020, 02:45:15 AM
Yes :icon_idea:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on February 07, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Make as intended. Modelling before gaming  :happy:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 07, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
Ok then!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 14, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
Ok I really need some advice here. I thought I was done with this thread but I still have some distance to go I guess.

So... when I started out as you might remember I was going to cap my armies at 700 points. Then it went to 1000. I am pretty much still set on 1000, although some armies I might have more for. Mostly because some had models I liked. I decided on using 6th and Ravening Hordes for my lists, and using the minimum unit size for my regiments.

I started out on the Starter sets, expanded from there, but then went back and bought all of the Battalion sets. I thought I would just stick with my plan on using the RH unit minimums, but now I am not so sure. Most of these sets come with a unit or two of 20 guys, but I am not sure how balanced everything is.

But lets say I re-build my armies around the Battalion sets, as they come, so starting with the Empire:

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2012/05/Empire-Battalion-Contents.jpg)

Except that I have 5 Knights instead of 8 (More on that later), and I add in some other 10-man units, like Greatswords, or a Mortar, a General, Battle Standard Bearer, and Wizard. I intend for all my armies to have those three heroes.

So would that work, against something like these:

(https://d3fa68hw0m2vcc.cloudfront.net/8c5/96430147.jpeg)

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFBBM/IMG/GAWWFB%2099120216005%20(81-06)%20T5E%20-%20Beastmen%20Battalion%20[Box]%201B.jpg)

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFBBT/IMG/GAWWFB%2091202030101%20(82-10)%20T5F%20-%20Bretonnian%20Army%20[BoxBack].jpg)

Assuming of course, I add some other units - minimum sized (that's all I have for extras).

The question is, would the block of 20 be overwhelming if I had a few for some armies where I don't for others? Like the Skaven have 3, and I have 20 Stormvermin to add.

The reason all this is a big deal, as when I thought I would do the minimum of 10 man units, I went out to make sure I had the parts to make a Champion, Standard, and Musician for each for a 10-man unit from a 20-man unit (as in the case of the State Troops shown above). And if I go the route of some units being 20, I will use up the figures I set aside for those three and make them regular troops, like the State Troops. If I ever wanted to break these guys up into two smaller units, I wouldn't have those command models. Not to mention the movement trays...

And, splitting them up into two 10-man, I can make some as Swordsmen, and others as Halberds, something that really interests me. I am afraid I will get bored of these big blocks and all being the same. However, the more I look at these big blocks, the more I think they do look cool, and they are the way the game intended.

I do want to make all of my armies balanced, and also make sense in the WFB world. I don't mind having some large units, but I don't want to buy anymore so if I am short for some armies, which would make them difficult to be competitive with, I am not sure I want to do it.

Also, on the 5 Knights... most of the Battalion sets do come with 8 horse riders of some sort, but some only have 5, like the Dark Elves. I would prefer all my cavalry to be the same in count, so its going to have to be 5. In some cases those extra models I can use for other projects. Well, in the case of the Orcs and Goblins, I have 5 Boar Riders, but 10 Spider Riders... I guess the Goblins always have large units?

For those that have been following this thread, I am working on painting my 'burner' armies, so those are using the minimum unit size, so I guess when I get to play I will use those first and maybe get them out of my system. I guess I just wanted to be sure that the Battalion sets were reasonably balanced and a good anchor to work off of.

Please let me know what you think.

BTW - I picked up the hard to find Empire Huntsmen.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Naitsabes on February 14, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
you may be overthinking this a bit  :wink:

If you plan on playing 6th edition, 20 is plenty big for a unit (the front rank will be killed by the chargers, nobody gets to swing back and they'll run away no matter how many are standing in the back then). Actually at 1000pts army size, 20 seems at the high end in 6th edition.

I think GW decided on what goes into these boxes by looking at the army backgrounds (well, and probably what sprues they had at hand), background is not a bad reason for army selection for your project either. I wouldn't worry about 'competitive' or 'balance'. There will be bad match-ups of armies. so what, you'll figure out what they are and avoid them...or just roll with it by giving the stronger army to the weaker player.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 14, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
Ha, yeah I do overthink things.

So you think staying with 10 man units is okay? I went out and got all the parts to do so. I guess I might was well stick to the plan.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Naitsabes on February 14, 2020, 11:52:59 PM
6th edition was four wide for a rank, so I'd argue 12 is a more aesthetically pleasing unit size. (except for shooters who had to stand in one thin single line as second rank couldn't shoot, 10 seems fine then).

also, I applaud your appropriately grand efforts of getting an army for every faction  :eusa_clap:
(I am doing something similar for 8th edition, though I may not get every last faction, some are not my cup of tea. currently at six and a half, however, I am at a much more leisurely pace than you)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 15, 2020, 03:18:43 AM
Thanks! To be honest things just kinda got crazier than I anticipated, but then I do like variety. I guess it’s more interesting to me to have two different 1000 point armies as opposed to a single 2000 one. That way I can enjoy making and painting different models. I also worries some models would just get harder and harder to find so I went crazy last year but pretty much have everything I could want. Maybe some day I’ll get a Black Dragon or Steam Tank, but not a big deal that I don’t.

I really regret not getting into the hobby sooner, but I was more into sci-fi back in the day. Fantasy is an unexplored area to me so it’s been an eye opening experience.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on February 15, 2020, 06:47:10 AM
You know my opinion on 10vs20 for state troops. Naitsabes is right though, a 4x4 block 16 is fine. 10 is ok for your modelling projects, but not going to add a lot - your battleline will break like a twig instead of holding a round or two. Maybe consider one bigger unit of 16-20.

Against those armies, a unit of 16-20 is much more ideal. Units of 10 won’t do much. It will actually make it easier for your opponent to win as they wont need to do much to capture standards for easy victory points.

Cavalry at unit size 5 is ideal for most armies. Spider riders should be split if possible. Other than Bretonians, who should aim for 6 (including character).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 21, 2020, 02:45:29 PM
You know my opinion on 10vs20 for state troops. Naitsabes is right though, a 4x4 block 16 is fine. 10 is ok for your modelling projects, but not going to add a lot - your battleline will break like a twig instead of holding a round or two. Maybe consider one bigger unit of 16-20.

Against those armies, a unit of 16-20 is much more ideal. Units of 10 won’t do much. It will actually make it easier for your opponent to win as they wont need to do much to capture standards for easy victory points.

Cavalry at unit size 5 is ideal for most armies. Spider riders should be split if possible. Other than Bretonians, who should aim for 6 (including character).

Well the minimum unit size for the spider riders is 10... I assumed maybe they were only as good as 5 regular Knights... ?

Also, its hard for me to gauge which units should be larger and which are ok as 10. Thats why I was referring to the Battalion sets. And some units I just have 10 and thats going to be it. But my issue with units of 16 is that I do have that many then I have 20 models, so either use all of them in a single or break them up into two 10 man units.

So I wish to inform you all that I picked up a Garden of Morr. Its been on my mind for sometime, but I missed the boat when it was sold as a single set, and GW then started selling it in a large set with twice the items. I didn't want all that. So I got the older WFB version, and are excited about it. Figured it would look good on a table with the Undead.

Speaking of terrain, I might have mentioned this, but some time ago I got the fortified Manor. I love it, but was wondering if anyone else has gotten this, and is it possible to NOT glue all the various structures together so I could use them individually. As in, the tower and the house are linked by a third piece, and wondered if it would all stay put if I didn't glue those together. Its a great piece but I want the option to break them up if wanted, so scatter the terrain around.

I also have 5 sets of the older Citadel Wood. I had a couple, but when I got word that GW was killing it, I snagged three more. I love forest pieces and didn't like the newer version they were releasing. Anyway, I plan to do each mostly the same except use various pieces to customize them, like using the little creatures that come with the Wood Elves for a couple, and then another with some skeletal remains for one that more haunted, that kind of thing. I am really stoked about them. As a matter of fact, I am going to start them as soon as I am done with my starter armies, which I have started painting. So hopefully I will be able to use everything for my first battle report.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Naitsabes on February 22, 2020, 08:43:38 AM
You can keep the Fortified Manor in three main pieces. Just pay attention when you add the extra bits. I stuck one of the windows in the wrong place on the tower and didn't notice until I was pretty far into the painting how that extra window interfered with putting together the manor. It was a sad day in the hobby room.  :-P  You will also need to keep the stairs lose so they can fit both on the manor as well as the standalone tower as needed.

Think twice, glue once.

As far as your unit size procrastinations go, I don't understand how you can get these exact body counts and still put together a somewhat functioning army. Sometimes you need a magic item and so you drop a few guys from a unit, for example. Doesn't mean you couldn't have them sit on the shelf all nice and clean in proper units of 20 (or whatever your number is). I am sure there are people with good memory on this forum who could help you come up with 6th edition lists based on the models you have.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on February 23, 2020, 05:50:21 PM
My fortified manor is missing thre connector piece,  and thre stone walls out front.  It was cheap enough, but i would have liked to put it together
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 25, 2020, 03:06:11 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Naitsabes!

Okay guys, I have started painting my starter empire army and wow, not used to painting faces, and that is where I started. My flesh paint was kinda crappy, so looking into how to do faces (as I don't do them very often), I found a GW tutorial using the newer paints. So I went out and bought everything and thought everything looked pretty ok (I did make some mistakes), but when it came to doing the eyes holy crap. I prob would have been better off not giving them any. I tried to do the whole army like a production line and are going to have to go back and make a lot of corrections. Some are just kinda blurry and prob going to leave it at that. My eyes are not what they used to be.

I didn't give much thought to this. I am used to painting space marines with helmets on.

Anyway, I have a question concerning my 3 other Empire armies based around the Battalion sets, who to choose the extra units for, and what province might be best to do.

So here is what I have across all the 3 armies:

General
Battle Standard
Wizard
20 State Troops
10 Handgunners/Crossbowmen
5 Knights
Great Cannon

Now the Knights I thought I would do this: I have a total of 16, so dividing them up in groups of 5, and having the bits to do the Reikland looking Knightly Order guys, the Knights of the White Wolf, and Knights Panther (who I don't even like, but will take advantage of the difference in models).

So would the White Wolf guys more than likely be a Middleheim army? Would other provinces have them? And would a particular province use the Knights Panther? I see the regular Knightly Orders with Talabheim in a lot of pics, and I was interested in doing those.

I also have a unit each of:

Greatswords
Spearmen
Flagellants
Archers/Huntsmen

In addition to each having a Great Cannon, I have another Mortar and the Helhammer. I suppose I could re-cycle my starter Great Cannon I am working on for one of these too.

So what do you think? How would you assign some of these to a particular province? I do like handgunners, but if the fluff thinks one should be crossbowmen instead I am cool with that.

Do you guys understand what I mean? I know like Nuln are the black powder guys, so maybe the Helhammer and a Great Cannon would go with them with a unit of Handgunners? I have to be honest the black color is kinda boring to me.

I was wondering too, if the Flagellants are more prominent in certain provinces too. Then I would lean towards making the whole army that province.

Same with the Huntsman. I feel like Greatswords would be everywhere.

I do like Talabheim. I think a Middleheim army would be cool if that's where the White Wolves should be. I love Marienburg in Mordhiem, but not sure I want to go all that crazy on painting them for an army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:40:28 AM
Yeah I am pretty sure I asked a question, and uhh... well, I want some god damn answers.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on February 27, 2020, 12:37:27 PM
I can answer. Been time poor.

What colour schemes do you want? I can match the units to the province if you like.

I agree Nuln is boring colour, but in the old days empire armies used to be mixed province, and its only 6th ed onwards where they made them dedicated armies.

Talabhiem - red and white
Middenland - blue and white

What else? A lot of white to paint there... do you like painting white?
Stirland seems the obvious choice to give truly diverse colours - green and yellow. But depends what fluff / colours you like....
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on February 27, 2020, 12:55:30 PM
Quote: Warlord: What else? A lot of white to paint there... do you like painting white?

White and yellow are the worst. Check out errantgamer’s thread for a great yellow mix and application.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 01:44:13 PM
Yeah I admit white is a b**** to work with. Yellow is as well, and until recently, I stayed away from Red. GW has knocked red out of the part lately with their base color. And I don't mean I don't like them as secondary colors, just think they are hard to work with as a base color.

If white was easier to work with I would like to do a Reikland army. But I just think it would be a little boring after all that work too. But white uniforms and that black eagle....

I do like blues, greys, and that side of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 27, 2020, 02:12:48 PM
Then go with Middenland.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:28:26 PM
Ok for one army, using the white wolves, right? What about the additional foot unit? Flagallents? Spearmen?

Should I give them crossbows instead of hand gunners?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
You know what? Screw it. I am doing Talabheim for my burner army. I prob wont want to do another. So for my main three - I will just to Reikland, Middleheim, and Marienburg. Just like Mordheim.

So the Reikland looking Knights go to Reikland, White Wolves to Middleheim, and Knights Panther to Marienburg???? Not sure if that makes sense. But they are decorative.

Then its a question of how who to give these to:

Helhammer - Seems legit for either Reikland or Marienburg, one has the military prowess the other the wealth
Mortar - Seems like a goof Middleheim or Reikland weapon
Greatswords - Reikland or Middlehiem?
Spearmen - I guess these could go anywhere, but they are kind of plain looking. And spearmen seem no nonsense - Reikland?
Flagellants - Def not Reikland to me. Not dressed well enough for Marienburg. Default to Middleheim?
Huntsmen - Marienburg. I could really pimp these guys out.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 27, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
Sounds like you have more than two armies being built.  The disease has evidently afflicted you as well.

If you're going to have two Empire armies, then I'd go with two that are adjacent to each other on the map to have some sort of ongoing fight between the two provinces that you can re-enact on the table top.  Or have two armies with similar color scheme although different highlighting colors to have some sort of internal provincial struggle happening instead.

As an example, I have mostly Averland, but with Wissenland and Stirland units for fluff fights between provinces on the table top.  Occasionally I also factor in Solland as well, and this was done for "The Solland Effort of 2524".

Yes, Reikland Guard to Reikland, White Wolfs to Middenland, and if you're not into Knights Panther, then go hunting for the lists of Empire Knightly Orders and pick a different one.

I'm not sure what you're doing with the other units ... trying to make one army, an army with multiple provinces represented, multiple armies?

By the way, Middenheim is a city in Middenland, Middenland is the province.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:43:53 PM
You guys moved in quick I edited my post...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on February 27, 2020, 02:44:30 PM
Flagellants look good in drabs I think. Again, they are amongst my favourites. I’ve got a few classics, 6ed metals, and new dudes.

(https://artobansghost.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_1902.jpg)

(https://artobansghost.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_1909.jpg)

(https://artobansghost.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_1907.jpg)

(https://artobansghost.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_1906.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on February 27, 2020, 02:47:07 PM
You know what? Screw it. I am doing Talabheim for my burner army. I prob wont want to do another. So for my main three - I will just to Reikland, Middleheim, and Marienburg. Just like Mordheim.

So the Reikland looking Knights go to Reikland, White Wolves to Middleheim, and Knights Panther to Marienburg???? Not sure if that makes sense. But they are decorative.

Then its a question of how who to give these to:

Helhammer
Mortar
Greatswords
Spearmen
Flagellants
Huntsmen

:)

I cheat with my armies.
All my artillery is done in a set uniform of Red & Blue for Altdorf - then they can all 'support' other provinces - where the 'troops' are painted in Provincial colours.
I use a darker crimsony red to again differentiate from Altdorf or Talabheim troops for example.

Alternatively you could use Nuln colours (Black and Black and Black  :engel: ) for all your artillery and apply the same principle.

And again with 'special' units. They can be 'hired' from some fluffy central source.
Flagellants for example are hardly likely to wear uniforms or 'colours'.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
if you're not into Knights Panther, then go hunting for the lists of Empire Knightly Orders and pick a different one.

Well, I have the pieces for them, so thought I might as well use them.

Quote
I'm not sure what you're doing with the other units ... trying to make one army, an army with multiple provinces represented, multiple armies?

Trying to logically put the unit with the army that best suits it fluff-wise. I mean, I know they all have each, but figured if I just had one unit of each, where the best place to put it.

Quote
By the way, Middenheim is a city in Middenland, Middenland is the province.

Ah ok.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
Flagellants look good in drabs I think. Again, they are amongst my favourites. I’ve got a few classics, 6ed metals, and new dudes.

Artoban these look awesome!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on February 27, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
Thank you very much. I have a whole disciples of Sigmar army. I love the models and the zealous fluff behind. The pinnacle of my Warhammer experience I think. From warrior priest to the dirt dragging pilgrim. They are my favourites 😺

The classic ones are gingers because they are a crazy lot (see Southpark) and as  a former ginger (turned grey at 28 thankfully), I have no qualm with the stigma lol
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: errantgamer on February 27, 2020, 03:37:48 PM
Back in the day I wanted to paint a single province Empire army. These days I want to paint a mix of units as painting the same colour scheme on every troop model, is tantamount to torture (at least it is very boring).

Nuln would be fluffy for the Handgunners/Artillery. I'm planning some Nuln handgunners myself.

I'd like to see the greatswords in one of the rarer colours like Nordland or Stirland. I think they would really stand out :)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 27, 2020, 04:36:42 PM
Back in the day I wanted to paint a single province Empire army. These days I want to paint a mix of units as painting the same colour scheme on every troop model, is tantamount to torture (at least it is very boring).

Yeah I know what you mean. I gave some thought to that too. But then again, I am going for a uniformed look for my other races.

I imagine a mix of all sorts of colors would really be cool on the table.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Naitsabes on February 27, 2020, 10:53:08 PM
And again with 'special' units. They can be 'hired' from some fluffy central source.
Flagellants for example are hardly likely to wear uniforms or 'colours'.

Wise words. And I'd say all the knights can fit in any province, there are chapter houses all over (BTW, the Knights Panther headquarters is in Middenheim). White Wolves probably are most restricted. but, even they could hail from another province than Middenland/heim.

So, I'd say less contemplating, more painting  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 27, 2020, 11:28:12 PM
 :::cheers:::  Yep, pick a chapter and paint 'em up! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 28, 2020, 12:33:18 AM
Would Marienburg troops all be decked out Marienburg colors? I know the province is rich, but historically that doesn’t always mean the citizens are doing the fighting. Many time mercenaries are hired. So should I be more liberal with some of my units in schemes?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 28, 2020, 12:41:05 AM
What do you want to do?  Almost anything in Marienburg can be rationalized.  And because it is fantasy, probably just about anywhere else, too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 28, 2020, 01:05:05 AM
I was thinking of painting a couple of the core units in flashy Marienburg colors and then do more random colors for the extra units like some of you are suggesting, representing units from various parts of the Empire flocking to the big bucks paid by Marienburg.

Also, how much better is the Helblaster over a regular Great Cannon? I was thinking of grouping it with a Great Cannon for Reikland, but though maybe that’s too powerful, and maybe, since I have 5 artillery pieces and the huntsmen, group the Huntsmen with the Helblaster and give the other two armies a Great Cannon and Mortar each.

I really want each Empire army to have a little flavor of its own.

I see the Helblaster as either some mean war machine serious armies like Reikland would use, or some crazy monstrosity that only Marienburg might have because it’s expensive and flashy.

Whatever happens, I don’t want to give the Huntsman to an army with two artillery pieces as that might upset my little balance between them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 28, 2020, 01:07:40 AM
Maybe Reikland gets two Great Cannons.
Middleland gets a Great Cannon and Mortar.
And Marienburg gets the Helhammer and Huntsmen.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on February 28, 2020, 01:19:38 AM
I love hellblasters but they are notorious for misfire/jam/blow up. When they work, they are pretty good ribbon decorators but when they don’t, they don’t. I would never go to war without one. 2 is preferable if you like gobbo  animosity unpredictability.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on February 28, 2020, 11:15:40 AM
Maybe Reikland gets two Great Cannons.
Middleland gets a Great Cannon and Mortar.
And Marienburg gets the Helhammer and Huntsmen.

Or maybe you do what we suggested earlier and paint them all in Nuln or Altdorf colours and then you can take them with whichever army you feel like at the time, or to suit the enemy you are facing.  :engel:

You are overthinking a lot of this.  :biggriin:

Given that you are obviously and obsessive collector (join the club) you might as well face the fact that by this time next year you will have doubled  all the numbers or limits you are trying to stick to at the moment.
Accept it and make sure everything you do now is as 'versatile' as possible.
 :closed-eyes:
 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 28, 2020, 11:24:40 AM
Yep, versatility is the heart and soul of a Warhammer Fantasy Player. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 28, 2020, 01:35:34 PM
Given that you are obviously and obsessive collector (join the club) you might as well face the fact that by this time next year you will have doubled  all the numbers or limits you are trying to stick to at the moment.

Ha! I WILL NOT!

Seriously setting this hard limit for myself. Which is why I am putting all this thought into this. Cause once I start assembling and painting, there is no real going back. So just would like to plan that's all.

The Empire is the only race I have enough models for three 1000 point armies, so that is why they have been getting this treatment. The others I am not getting into whatever various subsets there might be.

Keep in mind it took me what? I year to assemble my Mordheim gangs? I waited that long to think about what I was doing and to get the parts, so this isn't that far off. And once I have the idea in my head, its what inspires the project.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on February 28, 2020, 02:02:13 PM


Ha! I WILL NOT!



Making a diary note now  :biggriin:

We shall see ... ... we shall see.

I used to tell myself things like that. You poor deluded fool.   :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on February 28, 2020, 02:50:57 PM
Okay I will admit that I wouldn't mind one of the old Steamtanks. The all metal ones. Like the one with only one cannon, as the RH rulebook only has rules for one.

But that's it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on February 28, 2020, 02:53:40 PM
See, he's in denial, and still buying. :icon_wink: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on February 28, 2020, 03:54:47 PM
Okay I will admit that I wouldn't mind one of the old Steamtanks. The all metal ones. Like the one with only one cannon, as the RH rulebook only has rules for one.

But that's it.

One can’t have 1 steam tank. You will need 2
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on February 28, 2020, 10:31:43 PM
if you're not into Knights Panther, then go hunting for the lists of Empire Knightly Orders and pick a different one.

Well, I have the pieces for them, so thought I might as well use them.

Quote
I'm not sure what you're doing with the other units ... trying to make one army, an army with multiple provinces represented, multiple armies?

Trying to logically put the unit with the army that best suits it fluff-wise. I mean, I know they all have each, but figured if I just had one unit of each, where the best place to put it.

Quote
By the way, Middenheim is a city in Middenland, Middenland is the province.

Ah ok.

Here's a pet project of mine in case you need to find characters or units from 6th edition from white dwarfs, wayback machine, chronicles, storm of chaos, journals etc. Everything has been vetted unless otherwise noted (only one that i found a print off for, but not the original location) Feel free to use it at any time. I am constantly updating it as I find more

www.wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on March 01, 2020, 12:25:55 PM

One can’t have 1 steam tank. You will need 2

Wait - first there's the cannon version, then the volleygun one, then the mortar, and then the engineers' platform one;
oh and don't forget you can have the simple 'no weapon' ramming one.

 :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on March 01, 2020, 12:50:56 PM

One can’t have 1 steam tank. You will need 2

Wait - first there's the cannon version, then the volleygun one, then the mortar, and then the engineers' platform one;
oh and don't forget you can have the simple 'no weapon' ramming one.

 :engel:

Excellent point! I need more!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on March 01, 2020, 06:20:56 PM
Okay I will admit that I wouldn't mind one of the old Steamtanks. The all metal ones. Like the one with only one cannon, as the RH rulebook only has rules for one.

But that's it.
One can’t have 1 steam tank. You will need 2
In SteveB's world, there was always another one. :icon_wink: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 02, 2020, 05:49:59 PM
Okay you jabronis, I have it all figured out.

So since I haven't built anything from my Battalion sets, I am leaving towards building them as they come - so if there is a 20-man unit included, I am most likely going to keep them as such as opposed to my original plan. Any exception would be missile troops, which I will keep at 10, as well as cavalry at 5.

This being said, I had previously decided to make the State Troops into 10-man Swordsmen and 10-man Halberdiers for all three, but now will lump them into a 20-man and make something different for each Empire army.

So my Reikland Army will be:

General
Battle Standard
Wizard
20-man Swordsmen
10-man Handgunners
10-man Greatswords
5-man Knightly Orders
Great Cannon
Great Cannon

Middleheim Army

General
Battle Standard
20-man Spearmen
10-man Crossbowmen
10-man Flagellants
5-man Knights of the White Wolf
Great Cannon
Mortar

Marienburg Army

General
Battle Standard
Wizard
20-man Halberdiers
10-man Handgunners
10-man Spearmen
10-man Huntsmen Archers
5-man Knights Panther
Helblaster

So I can do all this without spending another cent. If I change my mind and split up the State Troops, then I still could. I want the look and feel between the three to be different, which is why I gave the Reiklanders swordsmen, Middleheim spearmen, and Marienburg Halberdiers as the main blocks. I am not crazy about the 20-man Spearmen for Middleheim, but I want them to be different.

I think Halberdiers as decked out in Marienburg colors will be cool. Also think all those Reikland swordsmen in white is going to look cool too, although I am not crazy about that for the Greatswords. I feel like Greatswords should be really pimped out. We'll have to see.

WAIT! I found this:

(http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1493296506070.jpg)

I can paint them up like this! It all works! Yes!!!! I AM SO STOKED!!! Love it when a plan comes together.

I see the Reiklanders like super serious about war, the Middleheimers as a rougher bunch, and Marienburg as a fancy core with mercenary units and expensive contraptions.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 02, 2020, 07:24:49 PM
Wow I am out looking for examples of Marienburg armies and found this:

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/02/Marienburg-MOMminiaturas.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/02/Marienburg-Previews-MOMminiaturas.jpg)

I suppose its more for Mordheim but damn that is some talent.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on March 03, 2020, 04:29:35 AM
That was a kickstarter, although I am told they had to change the title.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on March 03, 2020, 08:36:55 AM
Funnily enough I am working on those MOM figures at the moment.

Resin and they need a fair amount of work to prep them and some of the joints need some thought as the supposed 'lug' to 'hole' set up doesn't work very well, so I have pinned most joints, and somehow I am missing a pistol arm and a sword arm.
It may be me "clearing up" and accidentally binning them, but not convinced.

I feel they would fit all sorts of themes - Marienburg is a contender, but several would suit Estalia, or Tilea, and then there are plainer figures for other provinces, or even pirates.
A skirmish band is easy, but then front rank commanders fits as well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 04, 2020, 03:01:48 AM
What? No one has anything to say about my new Empire army lists?!? What are you, afraid? Worried that my armies and theme will dominate the battlefield? Yeah I bet you all are scared.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on March 05, 2020, 01:49:38 AM
Sorry, been busy again.

I like the lists, however minor change would be to swap out the hunstmen into the middenhiem list. Model-wise, if its the new fancy archers with puffy sleeves, I get it though.
Probably means swaping out the Mortar into the Marienburg list, which is fine. Means they will play way differently from the other two. Middenhiem IMO should have the most bodies. Points wise - how do they stack up? Middenhiem might be cheaper than the other two? Perhaps add in a captain too? Or if you have the models, a 10 man swordmen unit? If you have left over White Wolf hammer arms, they could work on infantry as swordsmen? I have 40 of those myself  :happy:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 05, 2020, 05:41:56 PM
Well what I have is all I have, not buying any more so have to make do with what I got.

I am curious about your statement on Middlenhiem having the most bodies... is there a reason behind this fluff-wise?

The archers I have are the fancy Huntsmen - and thought they would look cool with the Marienburgs, since they are pretty pimped out looking. But another reason is that I only had one artillery piece to give to Marienburg, and gave them the fancy one, but thought giving them another shooty unit would help balance them out with the others.

If you think the Huntsman should go to Middenhiem I am open to that. But feel like a cannon should go elsewhere then.

BTW I have been calling them Middleheim hahaha why don't you guys tell me these things.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Someone did.   :icon_wink:

Here it is, and with your reply ...

By the way, Middenheim is a city in Middenland, Middenland is the province.
Ah ok.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 05, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
lol

Maybe I have to be told the same thing a few times.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
No big deal.  Middleheim is close. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on March 05, 2020, 09:31:51 PM
So fluffwise, the compared to Marienburg and Reikland, Middenheim would be more likely to throw bodies rather than artillery at an enemy. Nuln is far away (next to Reikland), and Marienburg have all the money so can buy whatever they like. Middenhiem is wealthy, and have artillery of course. The old ‘Army of Middenheim’ armybox came with a Mortar, 2 sets of knights, state troops, free company and Tuetogen Guard (Hammerers). So Mortar fits fine. And cannon is fine too. They just prefer fighting bodies.

Their culture is a little more like the Starks from Game of Thrones IMO. An honest fight is preferrable. Rough huntsmen suit then. Fancy huntsmen I agree belong in either of the other provinces.

I am just looking at the Middenheim and Reikland list, and thinking about how each could play differently because their composition is so similar. The points should be less in the Middenheim list, which should allow at least another captain or you to grab those Marienburg spears for extra bodies?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 10, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Well, its been awhile and I do have some final updates.

I spent a lot of time thinking about my collection. I did what I tend to do with hobbies, I overbought. And trying to decide what to do with the army compositions and so forth really drove me nuts. And since I had decided on using 6th + RH as my ruleset, I didn't think I needed the 7th and 8th starter sets, and I almost got rid of them - thank god I didn't. One night I realized I could keep those sets as the basis for the small armies I wanted to do, and then use the Battalion sets to build these armies as they should be (like many of you said to do)

I know it seems like I over thought this a lot, but its a pretty big deal as I prefer my life to be organized and the things that are in it having a purpose, and it was just all a big mess.

I also started painting my Empire starter army, and that was a complete disaster. I havent painted a lot of faces in awhile, and decided to follow GW's tutorial on youtube to do it, and for the most part that went ok, but when it came to eyes I just f'ed it all up. I also realized that trying to paint like an assembly line doesnt work for me, the work was getting sloppy, and I am just going to have to do things the way I am more comfortable with. But I really butchered some of the models and decided to strip many of them to start over.

I also changed the make up of the Empire and Orc starter armies to reflect more with what came in the starter set.

I am also just about done with the regimental bases for everyone in those starter sets too.

So basically I am focusing on working on what came in the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets, and keeping the Battalion sets for later. I am building those units as they came in those sets, so not splitting up a unit of 20 into two units of 10 like I originally intended. I think the starter sets allow me to take both approaches.

I can't say enough about the 7th starter set. Its probably the best starter GW ever did with WFB. And that being said, 8th is a complete disaster. I am assuming whoever they put in charge of that was either new or a criminal. No wonder they introduced the End of Times thereafter. I can't see how that set sucked in new players. The models are amazing, but without a proper getting started manual, people had to have been like - what the f.

But the 6th rulebook is so comprehensive its become my bible. I am very impressed with 6th and the love GW gave it. The same can be said about 3rd for 40k.

I thought about hunting down a copy of 4th or 5th, but I dislike many of those early WFB models. I think the 4th looks more interesting, but I have enough as it is.

Speaking of that, I am going with only 2 Empire projects instead of the 3 I had planned - so going with Reikland and Marienburg. The only reason I was doing Middenheim was for the Knights of the White Wolf, but I am not really drawn to them as an army, and wouldn't mind getting rid of some things. I think Reikland and Marienburg have enough contrast to keep things interesting. This also means both are probbaly going to get 8 knights each as opposed to the 5 as I planned.

So the plan is to take another go at painting what came in the starter sets (with more patience this time), which are all built and primed now, and play some games with all of them.

Anyway, thanks for all your help sorting through this. Over these pages I know I went all over the place trying to figure a path through all this, and are pretty happy with where I ended up. I have some small armies for quick games and to learn the rules, and Battalion sets to build some slightly bigger armies as the game was intended down the road. I bought a little too much so have a little selling to do, but in the end I ended up with just what I wanted.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 10, 2020, 04:02:33 PM
Oh btw, talking about buying too much. I actually scored 3 metal Skaven Jezzail teams - who have never seen a lick of paint, for $10 each! I have wanted these guys for some time, but they are usually pretty pricey. I was able to get two different gun models, two different 2nd crew members, and 3 different shields, so some nice variety. They will be added to my Battalion set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on April 10, 2020, 04:11:33 PM
See ... still buying ... you're as bad as many of us. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Vincent of Vega on April 11, 2020, 04:56:10 PM
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 13, 2020, 12:19:40 PM
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?

That's not scheduled to come up until page 37. Come on man, we're on a schedule here. Don't rush.

You should read through the previous pages. Lots of insightful articles, rambling posts, switching back and forth between plans multiple times, questions with obvious answers, and pics! Everyone likes pics.

Truthfully, the most I have done is walk through the getting started rules for Skull Pass. I found GW's old site and online tutorials on the web's WayBack machine, and saved everything I could on PDF, and have been going through that. I'll only mostly assembled and primed whats in the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter (along with some other units), in addition to the heros I posted earlier. The reason this has been slow going is (1) time, (2) I really struggled how to build my armies, and (3) I really wanted to have my first 2 armies properly painted before doing a battle report. I totally botched my first attempt at painting my first army and are sort of starting over.

It's a marathon not a sprint!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on April 13, 2020, 01:01:19 PM
To save me reading through 18 pages.   Have you actually played any games yet?  If so, how did you get on?
That's not scheduled to come up until page 37. Come on man, we're on a schedule here. Don't rush.
The the question remains ... will you stay on schedule or not?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 13, 2020, 01:10:12 PM
Come on... probably not. Have I appeared consistent up to this point? I certainly dont think so.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on April 13, 2020, 01:20:48 PM
There we go.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Borderguy190 on April 21, 2020, 07:34:21 PM
Your project is crazy in its ambition, flawed in in its execution, and glorious to behold!  All those purchases are most wonderful.  You dropped a fair pile of Imperial coin!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 24, 2020, 07:50:34 PM
Flawed in its execution how dare you. Everything is going according to plan!

No I know I am terrible and all over the place. I have some news tho! I have made some good progress!

But first! Let me introduce you to a project I just completed:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814404601_e3cfa4d020_z.jpg)

EDIT: Dammit, these pics are showing a lot of imperfections I didn't see with the naked eye that I will have to fix.

What you are looking at is about a 1/300 scale Dom Prototype from Gundam MSV. How big is this guy you ask? Well here he is next to my Empire General.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813867333_a4f60a2653_z.jpg)

I've actually mentioned these little kits before somewhere in this thread, but I will recap below.

Now me and the Dom Prototype go way back. As a matter of fact, my mom recently gave me a box of old pics and in it was this one:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814734342_a83c94c6f4_z.jpg)

That's me opening presents during one of my birthdays back in the day when I was living in Hong Kong, and my friend Duncan (not in the pic), gave me 1/100 scale kits for the Dom Prototype and Zaku Cannon. These kits here: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212242 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212242) and https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10166810 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10166810).

Anyway, I was big into Gundam then and was pretty much until recent years. Anyway, I had a hard time finishing big kits and the 1/100 scale ones are pretty big. Hell, I have a hard time finishing their 1/144 counterparts, like I have here:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814404231_6d44c6dd2e_z.jpg)

The larger kit is actually an old 1/144 Dom Prototype (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10005621 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10005621)) kitbashed with a newer 1/144 Dom (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10046847 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10046847)). The older kits do not use polycaps, which are rubber like joints that keep the plastic from wearing away. I love posing my finished kits and its a real bummer then suddenly the elbow can no longer support the weight of the gun. I have used all sorts of methods to get around this from using plumber tape to green stuff to superglue to jam some material in there to prevent the plastic from wearing down, but lately I have just been combining kits. So the pics don't show it, but the chest, shoulders, backpack, head, belong to the older generation kit, while the arms, legs, and bazooka are from the newer generation Dom. Now, why not just make a newer generation 1/144 Prototype Dom? Well, they haven't released one, so I did this.

I am actually better at building than painting but even I was impressed how the build came out. You would never know holding it that I broke up a lot of plastic to get this kit to fit together, then filled the spaces and did a lot of sanding.

Anyway, as you are well aware, I have a hard time finishing projects in the painting stage, and size does matter. So I collect a lot of smaller kits, which is how we get back to the smaller 1/300 version.

When I lived in Asia, there was a Japanese company called Morinaga that released small model kits with candy. The models were small, snapped together, and included robots from various popular anime at the time, for about $1 each. I had tons of these, and in my youth, spent a lot of time shooting them with BB guns, blowing them up with firecrackers, or just setting them on fire. I was a total maniac.

Anyway, when I moved back to the states, reality hit me that I could no longer get all these things I took for granted, and I was really bummed out. Many years later, I found someone in Japan via eBay how said he would help me get some of these kits in Japan. Mostly through Yahoo Japan Auctions. After a ridiculous amount of money that I would rather not admit, I now have too many of these to ever hope to finish. Here is a small sample:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813866763_e33ce49b3d_z.jpg)

Here is the Dom next to the one I showed earlier on in the thread.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814713557_cd5cb39861_z.jpg)

These little kits are great as they kind of satisfy the need to build the design, without having to build a bigger kit, which I then have to find room for. And sometimes you can make little kitbash kits with them too which is always fun.

Anyway, so on to Warhammer Fantasy.

So we all know I have been all over the place buying up units to supplement the models I got in the starter sets and Battalion sets. We also know how insistent I was on sticking to minimum unit sizes. I decided pretty early on that I would use 6th for my rules, and sort of just built the remaining starter models to supplement the Battalion sets. I was so set on 6th I actually moved the 7th and 8th stuff to my store room where I put stuff to be listed on eBay. Not the models, just the boxes and books and all that.

Then I was watching old youtube vids one night showing battle reports using the starter sets, and soon after found on the internet wayback machine, the original GW pages for 7th edition, and the additional scenarios for Skull Pass. I've been a big fan of this set, and so I was happy to see the new info. But I didn't think much of it until I laid to go to sleep when it hit me: Build all the starter sets as they were released and just keep them. Who knows I might really like one of the other editions more. And I have plenty of models. The idea originally was to build small armies, using minimum unit sizes, and play small games, but then I got the Battalion sets and expanded on those, so in some cases I had all these models in some cases really didn't think I needed.

So I jumped out of bed, put everything that belonged in each set back into their boxes, but realized I made a mess of the 6th edition starter armies, which I covered a lot in this thread. So the next day I went on eBay trying to buy BACK some of the models I previously got rid of, to make the starter armies look like they originally came. And I have to be honest, I made a real mess of the Empire 'starter' army I posted when I started painting. So much that I am going to salvage my old swordsmen for parts.

So after a lot of work, I am back to where I started. I added cavalry and a wizard to the mix so they would essentially compare to the other starter armies in 7th and 8th. And, I am sure many of you are happy to see, are using the spearmen as a 20-man unit.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814404086_8e758823e2_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813866903_257d409828_z.jpg)

And same with the Orcs. The idea is to try to make the armies similar so I could have a fight between the 6th starter Empire and the 8th starter Skaven. I do have an extra standard and musician to fill out another unit if need be, as the 7th and 8th have them for all the units.

I don't know how tough a 20 unit Orc regiment is though. They look pretty intimidating, but its sort of what was intended (the original set came with 18 but I rounded it up. Actually, I rounded up to 10 or 20 with all of them. But I don't know how the 20 Orcs stack up going against the 10-man Dwarf Warrior unit for example. And can a chariot charge a unit of 20 spearmen and survive?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813866618_cf59481644_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814403436_b22afc576b_z.jpg)

I don't have it on him in the pics, but decided to give the Warboss the face mask he came with. Early on I posted I would leave it off, but decided I have enough Orc faces to look at.

Also, I discovered when assembling the older style Boar Boys that the riders were too wide to line the bases up, and it really bothered me. So I made a base specific to them with the groves so I could just slide the models in place and not have to worry about them sliding.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814424596_cfafcfb674_z.jpg)

I know seems trivial but it really annoyed me.

So there you go. I feel really good about this now. I think before I didn't know anything about anything and was all over the place without a plan trying to find my way, but not knowing what I was doing really kept me moving forward because I couldn't conceptualize what the hell I was doing. Now I have 6 completed (built-wise) start armies that appear in similar strength with all of there regiment bases done, so I am ready to play the starter sets as intended, and then mix up the armies when I have a better grasp of what's going on. I am going to try out the scenarios for 7th first since they are pretty much step by step then go from there.

The Empire starter army will be painted as Talabheim, and still planning on doing Reikland and Marienburg later on using the Battalion sets.

I wish I had done this in the beginning and saved myself 16 pages of posts.

I have some terrain to work on too, and will get enough built to play some games with and hopefully do a battle report! Small battle that is. Maybe combine them all to make a big one.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on April 24, 2020, 08:23:34 PM
Oh, one more thing. Last summer I discovered https://www.thearmypainter.com/ products at a couple of hobby stores, loved what they were doing, and loved their brushes. I spent a ton of money buying up a variety of their products and sat down to use them for the first time when I started painting my 'first' Empire starter army, and the brushes were terrible. Well, not all of them, but the smaller ones for detail were a major disappointment and I blame for most of the problems I had. I don't want to say all of their products aren't good, because I do like a lot of them, but the smaller brushes I have are bad enough to not bother trying again. I usually buy brushes at art stores and actually hate looking through various brands and sizes to try to find everything I need, so I was really hoping these in particular were going to work out and they would be my go-to brand. But unfortunately its back to Michaels in hopes of finding what I need.

Unless you guys have some brands your recommend. I mean, brands that blow you away on quality. I am not looking for average brushes.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on April 25, 2020, 12:07:59 AM
Quite the collection of robots there.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Novogord on May 05, 2020, 08:18:07 PM
Unless you guys have some brands your recommend. I mean, brands that blow you away on quality. I am not looking for average brushes.
I use Da Vinci - Harbin Kolinsky brushes, and I must say that I really like them.
But the Rotmarder-Kollinsky JR Products are good brushes, which also have an easy shaft to handel.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 06, 2020, 06:19:11 AM
ATM, my working brushes are:
- 3 Feldherr Kolinsky (nice handle)
- 2 Roubloff Kolinsky
- 1 kolibri Kolinsky
- 0 V & P (30 yrs old, I don't know what it is)

Plus various brushes for drybrushing and metals. The old Citadel detail brushes from late 90's and early 2000's have kept surprisingly well. Proably because I don't use them that much.

My brushes tend to wear off fast, because I'm using drybrushing a lot, and often forget to change the brush when changing the technique.

Agree the ArmyPainter brushes are low quality. They lose their tip fast, and the synthetic ones have a tendency to create a bend that doesn't straighten (with my tools, at least).

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 10, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
As you expect, I am pleased with your decision to increase core unit sizes for horde type units.
I think your army compositions are great though - both Orcs and Goblins armies will struggle to kill the High Elf Griffon, but its possible with massed shooting and/or combat resolution luck. Dwarves may struggle against the Orcs because of numbers and orc toughness. Otherwise should be fine. Consider upsizing the Dwarf warrior unit to 15 or 20, and miners up to 10.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 11, 2020, 12:55:31 PM
As you expect, I am pleased with your decision to increase core unit sizes for horde type units.

lol yeah I thought of you when I was making the movement tray. I have to admit I do like how the larger units look.

Quote
I think your army compositions are great though - both Orcs and Goblins armies will struggle to kill the High Elf Griffon, but its possible with massed shooting and/or combat resolution luck. Dwarves may struggle against the Orcs because of numbers and orc toughness. Otherwise should be fine. Consider upsizing the Dwarf warrior unit to 15 or 20, and miners up to 10.

Yeah I figured not all the starter armies would be a perfect match up, but I think it will help show me what works and what doesn't. Was the Elves and Skaven in Island of Blood even legal lists at the time?? I know in 40k about that time they were letting you play pretty much whatever you wanted, but the Elves seem to lack the 2 core minimum (I don't know - I dont have the 8th edition army book)

BTW I did get some tutorials games in using Skull Pass. It wasn't as complicated as I was expecting. I do have some confusion on how to line up units as they come from various directions. To my surprise the Goblins steamrolled the Dwarves much of the time if they got the the first punch in.

I don't know why GW initially included 12 warriors and 8 minors. I guess the guys making the models felt the rank size was still going to be 4 models, but 7th used 5. So I did take away 2 warriors and added 2 minors to round them out better, but yeah I agree the Dwarves might need another rank of warriors.

I didn't get crazy on the various units, so who knows how the entire army plays out.

Since I have these starter armies done, I am working on terrain now. Making some of the Citadel Wood that I have.

It didn't really dawn on my how long it would take me to assemble and paint these armies. I have barely touched whats in the some dozen Battalion sets. I am basically holding those for a long time investment in hobby time. Same with all I bought for 40k. No real regrets, just surprised. Maybe I am just slower and more of a prefectionist now.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
I don't know why GW initially included 12 warriors and 8 minors. I guess the guys making the models felt the rank size was still going to be 4 models, but 7th used 5. So I did take away 2 warriors and added 2 minors to round them out better, but yeah I agree the Dwarves might need another rank of warriors.

I never thought of that, but it makes a LOAD of sense.
Yeah - I think if you get the warriors up to 15 it will help.

Regarding the High Elf starter - yeah I don’t believe it is a legal list in a few ways. Not enough core and Griffon requiring Lord choice.

Yeah when I first got into the hobby, I didn’t notice mould lines. Now I seem to spend a lot of time removing it from everything. It does take a long time assembling - I collected a LOT towards the end, and spent a couple of nights a week assembling for a year and still have tons unassembled. Its kinda immobilising. But wouldn’t get rid of it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 14, 2020, 11:11:14 AM
Was the Elves and Skaven in Island of Blood even legal lists at the time?? I know in 40k about that time they were letting you play pretty much whatever you wanted, but the Elves seem to lack the 2 core minimum (I don't know - I dont have the 8th edition army book)

The Elf models did not form a 'legal list'. Also, the forces in the box weren't not balanced at all, something which the local GW personnel actually pointed to me at the time. The Elven force was much much more efficient, and would cost more points in the proper game. So a very good starter for an Elven force, barely scratching the surface for a Skaven force. But I guess it shows that at GW people still felt the models and toying were the most important part of the hobby, and playing the game came after that.

Quote
BTW I did get some tutorials games in using Skull Pass. -- -- I don't know why GW initially included 12 warriors and 8 minors. I guess the guys making the models felt the rank size was still going to be 4 models, but 7th used 5.

Skull Pass was published in 2007, and I'm totally sure the figures were skulpted within the two previous years, so 2005 the earliest. WHF had moved to 5-wide units already in the early 6th ed, IIIRC no later than 2003.

I would again guess that GW people felt models and toying were important in a starter box, and playing 'properly' was something that would come later. It would also drive sales, if the Dwarf players would need at least one more box to pump up their unit sizes. You wouldn't know about the proper or efficient unit sizes before you bought the army book anyway.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 14, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
Not surprising they'd do that.  In fact even in the 6th edition starter set with Empire and Orcs, the Empire spear block was 16 figures plus 3 command.  With 18 figures, ya had to buy something if you wanted a 20 figure unit, 4x5 for 6th edition or 5x4 for a 7th edition block.

If ya decided to go do 8th edition (not my cup of tea), then ya'd really need more figures. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 02, 2021, 06:43:43 PM
Hi everyone, been a long time and thought I would update what's been going on in my hobby the last year.

First of all, the pandemic might be one of the best things that ever happened to me. I know its certainly been terrible for a lot of people, but I got to work from home, focus on my personal life and take care of a lot of things around the house in ways that normally was impossible. Would have taken me a few years to accomplish what I have the last year on a more normal schedule, so glad I was fortunate to take advantage of it.

So one of the things I did was focus on my hobby stuff. Last we left off, I was sorting through what I wanted/needed from my Warhammer armies. I have to be honest, I haven't done a whole lot for WFB, but what I did to inspired me to do the kind of the same with 40k and its been a fun ride.

One of the things I did with WFB that I had done with 40k was buy too much stuff. I was blown away by much of what I saw, and figured get it while it was available. And surprisingly, I was lucky to get it all just in time. I am stunned at the prices on ebay or even GW as I am sure many of you are. Also, in a year where I had a ton of time, I still couldn't find time to paint. I love building, but painting is something that takes all the planets to line up a certain way. I essentially set aside a lot of time to build properly, give a coat of primer, then set the models aside to hang out in purgatory until I get inspired to paint.

One of the realizations I made was how much I like the starter sets. I almost got rid of the 7th and 8th sets (but keeping the models) when I decided to focus on 6th as my core rules, and are so glad I didn't. I really view all the starters as gems now, and they are really where my collection revolves around now, as opposed to the Battalion sets as they once had. I even hunted down 1st and 2nd edition to see what they are about.

I also found little things over the year I didn't know about. Like the Island of Blood novel and the metal Prince on foot. I found him by accident. Some of you might remember I had made a Prince on foot to go with the one on the Griffon, but I really liked the idea of having one that REALLY matched. I also made a copy of the shield and used it for the version on horse.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51152429237_ed418fcc52_c.jpg)

Anyway, I am using the book to inspire me on what I do with the set (same with the Skull Pass novel for 7th), and this actually had a dramatic effect on my 40k interest. I have been in and out of 40k since Rogue Trader, some editions I was really into, others I completely skipped. I had accumulated way too many models, in addition to the Battleforce sets.

So how do I re-organize? Clean out some space? Decide what to keep and not? Well, I was really influenced by this post off of Tale of Painters:

https://taleofpainters.com/2014/05/showcase-completed-2nd-edition-boxed-set/

(https://taleofpainters.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/completeboxedgamelores.jpg)

where Garfy had painted up an old school 2nd edition set as it would have looked back in the day. And since I had played a great deal of 2nd edition myself back in the day, I thought this was amazing. I too, had acquired another 2nd ed starter some time ago, but hadn't done much with it buy a bunch of additional models.

So it really got me thinking. I took a long look at the starter, and even after setting aside the expansions Dark Millenium and Storm of Vengeance, as well as all the codexes, there is a lot to this starter. It came with a scenario pack, which I wish all starters would, and the mission cards. I realized I probably could do just what Garfy had done, adding a few other models, like the Space Marine captain they released a few years ago based on the one on the cover of the box, and I would be set. I would have enough to enjoy the personal nostalgia of working on the models of this era, and if I ever played the game, I wouldn't be bogged down with a bunch of rules spread out over a bunch of books. Just keep things basic, like the original set did.

And it was like being hit by lightning. I sold off a lot of stuff, even a pretty big metal Squat army. Just focusing on what came in the box and is mentioned in the scenario pack. I do have a 2nd ed era Eldar force I am keeping though. I even hunted down a MIB Rogue Trader Battlewagon since its mentioned in the scenario pack too. I have always wanted one of them and never really had a reason to get it. Added a metal Ork Dreadnought from that era to replace the card one that came in box, as well as added the plastic Dreadnought from Black Reach since its also mentioned in the scenario pack.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51153099921_47d91615a3_c.jpg)

Anyway, the last year I not only hunted down the remaining starters I either had and got rid of, or never got in the first place, like 8th edition, or the original Imperial Marines and Space Ork sets for Rogue Trader. I actually bought the smaller sets first if they existed, like First Strike, not knowing if I was going to like the newer stuff. I was really surprised how much I liked them. The 8th edition starter is one of the best starters GW has ever made, but I also really like First Strike. Its a fun little game, nice rulebook, and add some datasheets of some characters and you have a great little game.

I also hunted down Battle for Macragge (which I did have back in the day but got rid of), Assault on Black Reach (which I never got), and picked up Indomitus. I want to say how blown away I was by Black Reach. I had never seen the models in person till last year, and was blown away by the Orks. The starter comes up super lite on learning how to play or scenarios, but I really liked the models. I do think what GW is doing as far as splitting up the sets across beginner and veterans is the way to go, even if I end up buying both.

The idea was I was going to do the same thing I had done for WFB: focus on getting the most out of the starters. So I bought whatever additional items that came out in support of the sets, like 'The Battle Rages On' for 4th edition - which is a GREAT expansion book for the starter, as well as Citadel's fortified position that is used in that book that was released around that time. I also grabbed things like the Objective Sets that were released for 8th and 9th, the Open war cards, etc. Even when it came to terrain, I used the getting started or white dwarfs of the day for inspiration. So for example, in my 3rd edition set, I have several of the original Gothic buildings that came out back then, but for 5th and 6th, I built smallish buildings using the Imperial Sector set. Of course I would have saved a lot of money using the same terrain for each, but I really wanted to capture the look and feel of the time period for each of these sets. I even kept the card building trays from 8th Know No Fear and 9th Command Edition to use. (1) it holds things in the box, and (2) gives me a larger piece of terrain. I know many would look down at me using both cardboard and plastic terrain features, but again, I am trying to capture the spirit of the game and they were included so why not.

Also what influenced me were the new carboard tiles to play on, especially from Kill Team. Years ago I would have scoffed at these. I had a Primaris Quadrant waiting to be painted and there was no way I would think of playing on cardboard before that. But then I noticed the Kill Team ones, the variety, and realized how many looked fine if you put the same ones side by side, like the Wall of Martyrs, or even many of the city ones. And rather than playing on a dedicated gaming table, I can just play on my kitchen table. I don't even play large games anymore - more like the combat patrol or slightly larger, so I didn't even need the 6x4 custom table I made. So I recently sold off the Quadrant set on ebay for a surprising $500. In return I bought the Moon Base Klasius set, added Ryza buildings from Kill Team Fronteris, and I love it.

So now when you open one of my starters, it looks something like these:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51153886464_af05b0f1a5_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154204120_7c432f3000_c.jpg)

Each contains all of the models that came in the starters (or mini starters in case of 8th), as well as some terrain from the time period. I just put 2 or 3 of the cardboard tiles together, add the terrain in the box, and maybe some other stuff I have. The important thing is that everything can be stored in the starter, so even the buildings are either assembled small enough to fit in the box, or if I am really lucky, don't require glue like 9th, and I can just take them apart for storage. And since I don't have any vehicles larger than a Rhino, I don't need huge buildings. Its def a packed fit with little room to spare, but I make it work.

This has changed everything about how I collect games now. Everything is based around the contents of the starter. I'll buy any tokens, novels, whatever that helps me get the most out of the starter. And the beautiful thing is that GW mixes up who comes in the starters, so I have variety. I prob would never have bought the new Necron models before this, so I am happy they came in the starter, as its just enough to satisfy my curiosity, yet keep me from spending a ton of money on an army I prob would normally not be interested in playing.

I also think that the rules are the best when dealing what is in the starter - meaning that as the edition goes on longer, the more imbalance occurs, and before long everyone is complaining about what a mess the system is. Or how someone might be disappointed that their 2000 point Dark Eldar army is useless now. I avoid all of that. And to be honest, by the time I actually finish painting everything, playing enough of the game to get bored of the scenario packs or Open War cards, I have another edition with other armies to play with. Its actually a fun trip down memory lane.

None of my close friends are gamers, but I have been able to get in a couple of games in with 2 of them and I can probably get them to play once every 3 months or so. So I really don't need a lot anyway. A couple of Kill Team tiles, a starter set, and thats usually it. Keep it short and sweet.

I know I am leaving a lot out of the hobby, and have no business playing against a real 40k fan who has Knights and flyers, but in my little world, I have a manageable collection that doesn't take up space, and I can get rid of a lot of the extras I no longer have any need for. And that is something that GW excels in - getting you to buy shit you really don't need or will ever use.

And by the time I finish whats in these starters, 10th edition will be out.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51153886889_646d33ab62_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 02, 2021, 09:14:11 PM
Seems like a good way to do it, congrats!  And welcome back! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 02, 2021, 09:15:50 PM
Welcome back!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on May 02, 2021, 11:48:52 PM
Sounds like a new plan! Welcome back 😺
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 03, 2021, 10:47:59 AM
Welcome back. I don't think i could refine my collection to any less than i have now (at 3,600 models) because we play at 3,200 points and i play as fluffy of lists as i can, so i don't have units that just collect dust. Good for you to be able to do that though
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 03, 2021, 07:46:52 PM
Thanks all.

Welcome back. I don't think i could refine my collection to any less than i have now (at 3,600 models) because we play at 3,200 points and i play as fluffy of lists as i can, so i don't have units that just collect dust. Good for you to be able to do that though

Man those size games are long gone for me. How long does it take to play out a game that size?

I’m really trying hard to find a happy medium where I can have some fun with the hobby, yet not accumulate so much stuff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 03, 2021, 10:09:44 PM
When I was playing WFB, 6th & 7th, I mostly played 500 points with Warband rules), and 1,000, 1250, or 1500 points, quick, easy and breezy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 03, 2021, 11:49:41 PM
I recently bought all the White Dwarfs that were released the same time as each edition of 40K was released to check out the coverage, and I think it was for 5th edition, I couldn’t nailed the exact issue so I bought a few and in those were the Warband rules. I managed to get all of the articles. Very excited about that. I knew about Skirmish but I think Warband is better. Will def try that out at some point.

Where did the Back Table go? Did you guys move it?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on May 04, 2021, 12:22:42 AM
Grutch told us to drink somewhere else  lol. Lot of trash on that thread for sure
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 04, 2021, 12:49:07 AM
Here ... http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=55041.0
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 04, 2021, 12:58:37 AM
Did someone piss him off?

Is it gone for good or coming back another time?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 04, 2021, 01:33:03 AM
There are some things in life that are best let go.

- - -

So ... how much gaming have you been getting in during the public health issue KTG :icon_question:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 04, 2021, 06:36:10 AM
Thanks all.

Welcome back. I don't think i could refine my collection to any less than i have now (at 3,600 models) because we play at 3,200 points and i play as fluffy of lists as i can, so i don't have units that just collect dust. Good for you to be able to do that though

Man those size games are long gone for me. How long does it take to play out a game that size?

I’m really trying hard to find a happy medium where I can have some fun with the hobby, yet not accumulate so much stuff.

Takes about three hours to play a game that size. Not terrible. We occasionally play 7,400 a side as well, takes about six hours and we will have four people playing. I like the big stuff on the table, so under 2k doesn't really interest me
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 04, 2021, 01:25:38 PM
how much gaming have you been getting in during the public health issue KTG :icon_question:

I got in a little. We played Epic Space Marine (v2) a couple of months ago, rather, two of my friends played against each other and I taught the rules. I have to be honest Epic was my first love and has really been the default game of mine for most of my gaming life, but not having played it in awhile, I was embarrassed that I had to keep looking up rules, and there aren't a lot! Some games have a ton of rules and I just don't think I can do those now. But I am not sure the game has aged well. I thought it was always amazing, but now feel some of the mechanics are a real drag.

Which worries me about even trying WFB. I was reading the 6th rulebook appendix and came across Clipping. I still struggle trying to determine how units line up to fight when coming from angles, and none of the diagrams really help. Some times I see units line up completely, others I see they are mostly lined up. Nothing is ever consistent in the examples as far as I am concerned.

I think the only way forward would be to play against a veteran warhammer player, but I don't know any.

So I have been sticking with what I know. I have the feeling that WFB is going to become a model hobby versus a gaming hobby.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 04, 2021, 02:19:43 PM
Perhaps some of it comes down to what a person wants to do, and then creating a path to have that happen.

Rules that are currently being released across the hobby seem to be more towards the less complex side of things.  The idea is to have game mechanics allow for a quick style of gaming, finishing games in 2 to 3 hours, maybe 4 at the most.

When I look at something like the ever expanding codexes of 40K, there's just no way to keep up with it unless a person focuses only on it.  My interests to to be more varied, so with something like 40K the aim is to keep my interest to several codexes to have it be manageable.

I look at games more as story developing/telling devices, an opportunity to use what I've been working on with the modeling/painting aspect of the hobby, and as a way to be social with people along the way.  As an example, picking a set of rules like Lion Rampant/Dragon Rampant keeps things relatively manageable.

My sense is your idea of keeping figures to the starter sets is another way to keep things manageable.  The issue then becomes what rules to use, yet even with things like Lion Rampant/Dragon Rampant, they too have things that could be better, and that means adapting the rules to make it suitable to your view of flowing could be good.

Things like WFB and 40K are in a way like a language, and the idea is to have something that can be used across borders so to speak.  However, what also seems important is to have a way to find enjoyment in your own local area, and that brings us back to what is it we want to do.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 07, 2021, 07:53:00 PM
Ok today is the big day. I finally bought the last thing on my wishlist, and don't need to buy another thing for a long long time. I imagine the next purchase I get will either be 40k 10th edition, or the new Old World Fantasy starter if there is one.

I tracked down an old Citadel Gaming Mat. I've used a few different mats in my days, and my default gaming table is 4x4 and actually folds up, so the mat that I mounted on it has a crease in the middle. I had thought of replacing it, but then got sidetracked with all the Kill Team boards I liked, which were for 40k, only to realize I had nothing in that form for fantasy.

I looked online at a few manufacturers that make mats in all different forms, but I couldn't find a grassy one that I liked. I just really wanted a plain grassy one without a lot of details. At any rate, I didn't want to buy one from Russia for example only to get it and not like it, so I kept looking and discovered GW released a mat back in 2010 that was highly rated. So I grabbed one. It wasn't cheap, but what else is these days.

I am not intending to permanently mounting it to a board, and it is kind of too big (6x4) for what I prefer (4x4), so I guess I will just lay it over whatever surface I am playing on. Here's a mock up using the Skull Pass set, since their art is featured on the cover of the box.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163913421_65054a2eb4_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164158493_7b7d5e59f6_c.jpg)

Anyway, I do approve of it. I was able to quickly iron out some creases. If I had bought these back in the day when they were cheaper, I would have def stocked up and permanently mounted one on a table.

You'll notice some hills. Yes I bought those recently too. Old GW hills. I had some old ones, the ones that came flocked, but kind of liked these more, so sold off the others and got these. These were already painted and a couple already flocked, but I was able to remove the flock and just gave a light primer over the previous paint job, which looked more like a wash. Kinda big, but I like them.

So, between the mat, the river and lake sets I got some time ago, a stone bridge I think is from Bolt Action, a Manor (which I have still yet to even assemble), the Garden of Morr, and 5 sets of the old Citadel wood I grabbed before they were discontinued, I think I can safely say I have all I need for a proper WFB battle.

So this is it. I got all the starters I wanted, the battalion sets and other supporting units, generals, wizards, and battle standards for all, I am finally done.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 07, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
Also, I wanted to add that I looked into using Warcry boards for fantasy, but they were too noisy for what I wanted. And I even gave them some consideration for Mordheim, but they just seem a little over the top for that. I do love the grassy look of a flocked fabric mat, but I would have been fine with fold up cardboard tiles too. There is no going back for me on those for 40k.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 08, 2021, 03:24:34 AM

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164566241_5ae9dafe56_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51165350054_01a4419767_c.jpg)


Will prob never try them out, but I like collecting old stuff like this.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 08, 2021, 03:54:39 AM
Excellent!

Recall when I was in college seeing the white one in a hobby store in Maine.  I'd taken a local public shuttle mini bus into Bangor from Orono, as I periodically did.  I recall looking at it for a good bit before purchasing a few Citadel figures, two "barbarian" figures that I still have, and they are on hex bases.  I never got the rules, it seemed more like a roleplaying game at the time, and I was already playing and GMing AD&D 2nd edition, and after having previously done basic D&D and 1st Edition AD&D.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 08, 2021, 04:13:56 AM
Yeah it seems 1ed is really generic. 2nd has some back story on races, but I guess its not till 3rd that the Warhammer world starts getting really fleshed out and I don't have that book yet. Its on the list of things to do.

I totally intend to play a game of Rogue Trader with my Imperial Beakies and Space Orks,  I imagine I'll try to do the same with WFB 3rd. I hear good things about it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 10, 2021, 08:31:28 AM
Ok today is the big day. I finally bought the last thing on my wishlist, and don't need to buy another thing for a long long time. I imagine the next purchase I get will either be 40k 10th edition, or the new Old World Fantasy starter if there is one.

I tracked down an old Citadel Gaming Mat. I've used a few different mats in my days, and my default gaming table is 4x4 and actually folds up, so the mat that I mounted on it has a crease in the middle. I had thought of replacing it, but then got sidetracked with all the Kill Team boards I liked, which were for 40k, only to realize I had nothing in that form for fantasy.

I looked online at a few manufacturers that make mats in all different forms, but I couldn't find a grassy one that I liked. I just really wanted a plain grassy one without a lot of details. At any rate, I didn't want to buy one from Russia for example only to get it and not like it, so I kept looking and discovered GW released a mat back in 2010 that was highly rated. So I grabbed one. It wasn't cheap, but what else is these days.

I am not intending to permanently mounting it to a board, and it is kind of too big (6x4) for what I prefer (4x4), so I guess I will just lay it over whatever surface I am playing on. Here's a mock up using the Skull Pass set, since their art is featured on the cover of the box.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163913421_65054a2eb4_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164158493_7b7d5e59f6_c.jpg)

Anyway, I do approve of it. I was able to quickly iron out some creases. If I had bought these back in the day when they were cheaper, I would have def stocked up and permanently mounted one on a table.

You'll notice some hills. Yes I bought those recently too. Old GW hills. I had some old ones, the ones that came flocked, but kind of liked these more, so sold off the others and got these. These were already painted and a couple already flocked, but I was able to remove the flock and just gave a light primer over the previous paint job, which looked more like a wash. Kinda big, but I like them.

So, between the mat, the river and lake sets I got some time ago, a stone bridge I think is from Bolt Action, a Manor (which I have still yet to even assemble), the Garden of Morr, and 5 sets of the old Citadel wood I grabbed before they were discontinued, I think I can safely say I have all I need for a proper WFB battle.

So this is it. I got all the starters I wanted, the battalion sets and other supporting units, generals, wizards, and battle standards for all, I am finally done.


Once you fight a full sized battle, 4x4 doesn't allow for much movement beyond running straight across the field, you'll want those extra 2' lol.

Nice to hit that "done" feeling. Maybe in a few years when everything is painted up, you'll get the itch to make them full sized armies, but for now, enjoy it. I had that with my other hobby for almost a year before selling them to move away. This hobby i am close, but not quite there yet. Maybe another bunch of empire and pirate zombies and i'll finally accept completion
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 12, 2021, 07:04:11 AM
Once you fight a full sized battle, 4x4 doesn't allow for much movement beyond running straight across the field, you'll want those extra 2' lol.

Second this.

Warhammer was originally designed for 8'*4' tables, and full games (2-2.5k points) are definitely more interesting when you have to create a main force with flanking units & have room for maoeuvre.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 12, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
Yep, all this movement by GW towards smaller boards seems to be a bit lacking in tactical options.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 13, 2021, 07:55:38 AM
Yep, all this movement by GW towards smaller boards seems to be a bit lacking in tactical options.

Most of the games have a huge lack in tactics anymore. More if you get a yahtzee that turn.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 13, 2021, 02:13:58 PM
8th was the move away from tactics.
6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 14, 2021, 08:26:09 AM
8th was the move away from tactics.
6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.

we tend to play as long as it takes to annihilate the other, we're generally just hanging out drinking for the evening anymore. I don't enjoy tournament settings at all, played enough of them back during 6th and 7th to last a lifetime, min maxed hot garbage lol.  8th was pack up my toys and move onto other hobbies time.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 14, 2021, 08:44:26 AM
6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.

Funny enough, the 3rd ed, where the 8'*4' table is given as the ideal, did not give a game length in turns. It mentions five turns as an example, but then suggests even as few as three turns per player might be satisfactory in a tournament where time is the limit. For friendly games, no time or turn limit is given, other than an evening.

So yes, not necessarily a maneuver game any more than any other edition. What I see as the benefit of an 8 foot wide table is the opportunity to really divide your army into two main battles, or the main battle and two flanks, and pursue a game that feels like a battle and where terrain plays a role. IIRC, the model count tended to be smaller back in the time, and there tended to be more ordinary troop types, so you had this regiment feel but also more room around the individual units. Add the two-phased movement, and the game truly felt like a big battle with key moments.

But much of this probably mirrors innocence and nostalgia. The 3rd could be played as hard and probably was as 'broken' as most other editions.

It was also a time when the most important rule read: "the GM is always right!" :mrgreen:

Kings of War has a very good rule: play five turns, and after the fifth, roll the dice to see if a sixth turn is played. Forces you to play relatively fast and wisely. Did Warhammer have this kind of a rule in some edition?

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 17, 2021, 02:39:33 AM
I’ve given it some thought and plan on working on a new 5x4 table. I know it’s not 6x4 but I want to be able to store it in a closet I have when the legs fold up. I had made a 6x4 with foldable legs before but I used too much wood and it weighed a great deal and took up too much room in the closet. Then weighing a ton was a pain in the ass to move around.

I agree with the criticisms in a 4x4 table. Even the Space Marine games felt a little restricted and that game uses tiny models. But I also realized that the WFB terrain that I have take up a lot of space so I am hoping that extra foot helps. I really don’t plan on enlarging my armies which are either based around the starters or battalion sets plus a few character models and an additional special or rare unit. So hoping that helps.

It’s really trying to find a compromise between size, usefulness, and storage.

Also in response to Gamespot on the loss of tactics, I especially noticed this with Adeptus Titanicus. I knew as soon as I saw the larger models (compared to their original counterparts) that they would have an effect of shrinking the gaming area. In the older Epic games, you had the room to make great sweeping attacks utilizing hills, forests, buildings, etc but in this version of the game the Titans are pretty much the biggest models on the board. And since they made the game to play on a 4x4 area, they had to come up with some way to make up for the lack of movement and cover and come up with a game more about resource management than tactics. I hate it. I know there are fans of the game out there, but it’s boring to me. I don’t want to spend my time managing what’s going on internally with my Titans while being pretty much at point blank range from round 1. And I feel the same is kind of happening in 40K as they keep coming out with larger and larger models on bigger bases. All this means more restricted movement, so... let’s more roll dice instead.

I recognize that the models look great, but I really appreciate the old days where you might have mini battles raging across the board and spending time thinking where you were going to send your next unit, as opposed to just moving everyone 24 inches. You could do that when the models were smaller. I lined up everything I had from Indomitus across 3 Manufactorum tiles and thought, this just looks ridiculous. How could you ever explain how all these guys even got this close together before the shooting started. I guess you could make shit up but still.

The larger models help the painting hobby, but I think it hurts the games from a tactical sense. Movement gets replaced by other mechanics which usually means more dice rolling or resource management.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 17, 2021, 06:35:19 AM
Two foldable tables from walmart or whatever gives you a 6x5 table when pushed together and stores nicely
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 17, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
It really is quite amazing what can be found for fold up tables, and so I second the idea.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2021, 08:58:15 PM
I made this today. Just finished.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51199111989_af5832e0be_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51197624577_834ea8c998_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51198336481_3e80768b8c_z.jpg)


6x4. I had planned to do a 5x4 like I said I would, but said screw it. I am happy with the results, but still wonder if I really need all this table. With the legs folded up it fits in the closet. Its pretty lightweight. I bought the best wood I could find for the sizes that I wanted.

And get this, I have that citadel battle mat, and thought I would just lay it on the table, however, while I was waiting for the spackle to dry, I got a notification that another battle mat was listed on ebay for $60. Is that providence, or is that providence? I know I already have one, but I thought I would take a shot at permanently mounting one on the table. So I don't mind spending $60 on this experiment. If it fails, I have the original one to lay on it.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH I wish I just built the 5x4. Oh well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on May 23, 2021, 09:49:46 PM
Nice table!!!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 23, 2021, 11:12:24 PM
Excellent!

Doesn't a battle mat fit a 6x4?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2021, 11:26:31 PM
Thanks guys!

GP the mat is 6x4. I originally planned to do a smaller table and have the mat just lay over the sides at the end, but when I opted to do 6x4, I still planned on just laying the mat down on it, but after winning the second mat, I am going to try and permanently glue that one to the table.

I’ve done various mats in the past with varying degrees of success, from perfect to wrinkles to completely ruining the mat. That’s why I didn’t want to take a chance with the only GW battle mat I had. But now I am going to give it a go.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2021, 11:27:45 PM
I just saw there are nearly 30,000 views to this thread. Such a disappointment I still don’t have painted armies to show after all this time lol 😂.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 24, 2021, 12:04:55 AM
Suspect some are just bots.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 24, 2021, 12:17:01 AM
Dammit I am really feeling dumb making this huge ass table. The more I look at it the more I wish I did 5x4. I gave some thought of how I could take the legs off and run it through the table saw but then the supports would be off center. I might make another table top next weekend in 5x4 and see how I like it. I want to be sure before I glue the surface on.

I just HATE having more than I need. Especially when I am not going to be using it that much.

Dammit.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 24, 2021, 12:29:12 AM
Dude 4x6 is cool.  When I visit some day I can bring one of my scenarios fit for that size, and we'll have a grand time!

 :icon_biggrin: :icon_mrgreen: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 24, 2021, 02:10:08 AM
I’ve been doing such a good job downsizing and going with smaller games and I go an do this.

One of the reasons I decided to go bigger is the realization that a lot of the terrain I have is pretty big, from hills to rivers and lakes to trees and some houses. In order to use them I would need space but I think I could have learned to just use less.

The only way to be sure is to build the 5x4, compare the two, then chop up the one I don’t want.

Btw, I said I was done buying, but there has been one thing that’s bothered me and it’s my General for Chaos. The dude I was kitbashing wasn’t doing it for me, and I recently discovered they released an Archaon on foot. So I decided to get the newer version and the foot version, to match all I have done that for all my armies.

Not intending to use him as Archaon, he’s just a hero.

Ok now I am done.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 24, 2021, 03:02:43 AM
Extra space for books and discarded miniatures on your table is always handy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 25, 2021, 03:24:58 AM
Nice, a proper sized table is a great start. I used to play on a 4x4 and a 5x4, none of those games were that great due to lack of space to actually do anything tactical. A decent sized table is along the lines of "if you build it, they will come" lol I still need another 6x4 in my new place. I won't even bother playing on the 5x4 kitchen table i have now.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 25, 2021, 03:33:36 AM
I'm for at a minimum 5x7 which is what I have currently. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

This size provides space for larger games if desired, and I can always do something smaller on it, while having space for dice, figures, measuring tapes, rule books, etc.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 25, 2021, 08:24:53 AM
I'm for at a minimum 5x7 which is what I have currently. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

This size provides space for larger games if desired, and I can always do something smaller on it, while having space for dice, figures, measuring tapes, rule books, etc.

nice, pretty sure my current one is 5x6.5 works for 6500 points per side in 6th when we go that big
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 25, 2021, 09:50:57 AM
I'd love to have 5x8 or 5x10 or 5x12, maybe even 5x14!  Not enough space currently for the latter though. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 26, 2021, 04:30:05 AM
My friend has a 5x24 table in his basement, it's pretty epic. He plays more historicals though. we did a chaos incursion with themed chaos armies on one side and whatever on the other, it was pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 26, 2021, 04:11:56 PM
Yeah if I had a basement, this would be a moot point. I would certainly have a big table there.

And btw, to add to this comedy, I can't fit the table I just made into the closet I was planning on without taking the doors off the hinges.  :eusa_wall:

The size has grown on me, and now that its away for now, I feel better about it.

Question: I got my Archaon on horseback, and it has a large square for a base. I am planning on mounting him on a regular cavalry base anyway, but was wondering how the larger base would have played out in the rules. I mean, every other mounted general I have is on a narrower base, and therefore gets some benefit of the number of models that can attack them from the front. But according to the rules, Archaon would face more. How did/would you guys resolve this?

Excited to have Archaon btw, just waiting on the foot version. I am pretty stoked about my Chaos armies. I have the pieces in place for a Marauder themed one, and a Chaos Warrior one, which of course I could borrow from each or combine.

Mauraders:

Custom General on horse and on foot
Custom Wizard
Custom Battle Standard Bearer
20 Marauders
5 Marauder Horsemen
10 Chaos Hounds
Sort of custom Marauder Chariot (Using the old metal Chaos Chariot as a base)

Chaos Warriors:

(Archaon as Hero) General on horse and foot
Chaos Wizard
Limited Edition Chaos Battle Standard Bearer
12 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Knights
Chaos Chariot

I know I need another Core for the Warriors, so I this is where I would have to borrow from the Marauders.

Very excited about this. I got all the pieces I need after a couple of years of hunting around. Its really the last of my battalions that I didn't have all my i's and t's crossed since I couldn't come up with the hero models I was happy with.

I hope one day I can have a big game combining the Warriors + Marauders + Beastmen against some poor souls. Maybe an Empire + High Elves + Dwarfs force.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 26, 2021, 05:43:56 PM
Ya know ya got a real hobby trooper there when hinges start coming off doors to store a hobby table! :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 27, 2021, 05:27:30 AM
Yeah if I had a basement, this would be a moot point. I would certainly have a big table there.

And btw, to add to this comedy, I can't fit the table I just made into the closet I was planning on without taking the doors off the hinges.  :eusa_wall:

The size has grown on me, and now that its away for now, I feel better about it.

Question: I got my Archaon on horseback, and it has a large square for a base. I am planning on mounting him on a regular cavalry base anyway, but was wondering how the larger base would have played out in the rules. I mean, every other mounted general I have is on a narrower base, and therefore gets some benefit of the number of models that can attack them from the front. But according to the rules, Archaon would face more. How did/would you guys resolve this?

Excited to have Archaon btw, just waiting on the foot version. I am pretty stoked about my Chaos armies. I have the pieces in place for a Marauder themed one, and a Chaos Warrior one, which of course I could borrow from each or combine.

Mauraders:

Custom General on horse and on foot
Custom Wizard
Custom Battle Standard Bearer
20 Marauders
5 Marauder Horsemen
10 Chaos Hounds
Sort of custom Marauder Chariot (Using the old metal Chaos Chariot as a base)

Chaos Warriors:

(Archaon as Hero) General on horse and foot
Chaos Wizard
Limited Edition Chaos Battle Standard Bearer
12 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Knights
Chaos Chariot

I know I need another Core for the Warriors, so I this is where I would have to borrow from the Marauders.

Very excited about this. I got all the pieces I need after a couple of years of hunting around. Its really the last of my battalions that I didn't have all my i's and t's crossed since I couldn't come up with the hero models I was happy with.

I hope one day I can have a big game combining the Warriors + Marauders + Beastmen against some poor souls. Maybe an Empire + High Elves + Dwarfs force.

Archaon's mount counts as a monsterous mount, so it goes on a 50x50. same as the regular general's mount for chaos. they're much stronger than the regular horses. Archaon is one of those almost invincible characters, one extra unit attacking him isn't going to cause much damage.

Excited to see you play some games soon. should be pretty fun once you do
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 27, 2021, 04:24:10 PM
I see, looks like the official term is Daemonic Mount. They aren't mentioned in Ravening Hordes but I see its in the 6th edition army book.

Well, I am using Ravening Hordes as the basis for all my armies so I guess I'll just mount the model on a regular cavalry base and call it a Steed which is an option.

I'll keep the Daemonic base tho in case I ever want to upgrade.

I had no idea Archaon was even in the 6th edition army book until now. I thought he was an 8th edition End of Times character.

Looks like I still have a lot of reading to do. To be honest I am kinda taking on each army slowly.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 28, 2021, 03:17:45 AM
Ah, I don't think i've opened my rh book for an actual game in twenty years. I prefer the added flavour of the army books, the characters, the units, etc. I've gone out of my way to get every character and unit from the books, white dwarf, citadel journal, etc.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 14, 2021, 11:07:20 PM
I have an update for this insane journey down the rabbit hole but I am not going to post what they are until they arrive but I couldn’t help but get on here and announce that something very exciting was going to be posted here.

You’re just going to have to wait.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 15, 2021, 12:28:11 PM
haha, nice
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 21, 2021, 07:43:33 PM
Okay really excited about this one!

I do owe an apology to Old Stonebeard for being so harsh on the earlier editions of WFB.

So during Covid I took a look at my 40k collection and decided to keep my collection based around the starter sets, and its been a great way for me to check out the different systems, and get enough flavor from the start armies (and some times whatever additional units the scenario books might suggest). One of the things I found interesting was seeing how the game evolved and with that, I considered doing the same with WFB, although initially I wasn't a fan of the earlier stuff. Part of the reason was the cartoon look of the whole thing.

Then it occurred to me that Man O' War and Warhammer Quest are two games I really love and things rarely get more cartoony than that. So after getting the WFB 1st and 2nd editions, I started looking into getting the 4th and 5th edition starters. I have to admit from a distance I wasn't a huge fan of what I saw. I wasn't crazy about the troop options and I wasn't sure on how I could expand on the armies if I wanted to buy more minis, without having to buy more Army books, which I didn't want.

But I looked into the 4th edition starter I saw that it revolved around the scenario Battle for Maugthrond Pass, and if it had the rules for the card units, then maybe I could hunt down the actual models for them too. A lot of them are going for pretty pricey prices these days too.

Well, some things set in motion that happened super quickly, and lets take a look at what I got!

The first batch arrived in an old Mail Order box!!! Pretty awesome or what?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263012515_917f9bf845_z.jpg)

And included all that you see here:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262166633_8337237157_z.jpg)

Everything unassembled and unpainted. I really couldn't believe it. And the reason I chose this set was how complete it all felt. It came with the Bretonnian King and the Slaan Priest which were two models I wouldn't really ever considered getting, but seeing it was all part of this, I realized I had two generals for the opposing armies. It also came with their respective army books, so I had the official rules on how to use both since the starter really came up lite on just the rules for the models IN THE STARTER. It also came with some additional blisters of various knights and some Lizardmen stuff. It was a great, great deal. And I was really happy to start out with pretty much all I wanted to get.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262166363_daefee7f99_z.jpg)

The next set came up for sale pretty quickly after, and I was even happier to get it than the one above.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262167018_fd83663c2c_z.jpg)

Still in awe of the condition. The seller really did an expert job packing it. A few models were off the sprues but they are all complete.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263013085_08c31e371c_z.jpg)

Now as soon as the dust settled on this, I ran out to ebay and scored Grom in his chariot, the High Elf War Griffon, High Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower from that era, the Orc Shaman on the War Wyvern, and the Orc Stone Thrower. Yes, that cheesy Stone Thrower from this era. They all should be here any day now.

And I love it all.

The 4th edition does come with a starter army book like Ravening Hordes, so that's cool if I ever want to expand on things, but to be honest I am really not planning on it. I just wanted to have two self-contained games for these starters, and was able to do it pretty quickly. I guess I could always have the High Elves battle the Lizardmen too if I wanted.

Now, my first impressions: well, the 5th edition books are amazing. Full color. And things explained a lot better than in later editions. I wonder if the presentation and print has anything to do with that. I am sure it does. Like the 40k 6th edition rulebook is really a work of art, but its a hard book to read and digest. And the 5th edition Bretonnian army book was very interesting reading too. Written by Nigel Stillman who I thought was excellent back in the day. The whole heraldry thing was easily explained and inspire me to pick up a blister pack of the old school Bretonnian Knights or the Realm transfers. Still amazes me the 5th ed rulebooks go from full color to mostly black and white in 6th.

I've only started on the 4th edition material recently and don't have much to say yet, other than it is cool to see Grom, the High Elf Griffon and so one used in the diagrams. Just makes me feel like its all a complete game.

I have zero interest on expanding either one of these as far as armies go. I lucked out on these and I really don't want to hunt down a bunch of different units trying to make something compatible with these. I do think the later models are superior and would rather spend my time on those.

For many of you, you got to see this game evolve but its sort of been the opposite for me, starting with the more recent and working my way back. I can see how 4th edition must have been really popular. GW was putting a lot of fun stuff out in those days, and you can feel it in these sets. I do think going Grimdark was the way to go, but these do have a lot of character, even if a lot of it is cheesy. So I am impressed though, and really glad I got these.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 21, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Oh, absolutely hate how the 4th edition archers are mounted aiming off to the side, but there is no alternative since there isn't room for them to line up straight if they are ranked. Lame!

Going to mount the spearmen facing forwards tho.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 22, 2021, 11:37:59 AM
Nice pickups, I started in 4th. Nice to see the starters all in great shape like that. If it's bretonnian archers, they were in a pyramid rank formation in the book, that's why they suck to rank up. Personally, I'll play 5th again sometime, but it will be with later minis, i am not buying the old minis if i can help it. (oldhammer minis don't appeal to me, like at all. lol one word missing: proportions) Some of the 4th/5th undead stuff i do like for variety in that army, but not going to chase them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 22, 2021, 01:19:40 PM
Nice to see the starters all in great shape like that.

Agreed. I always get a little sad when peeps sell games on eBay and the box is all crushed.

Quote
If it's bretonnian archers, they were in a pyramid rank formation in the book, that's why they suck to rank up.

The Elves and Goblins have to face at an angle, and its really annoying me.

Quote
Some of the 4th/5th undead stuff i do like for variety in that army, but not going to chase them.

I agree about the undead. Its all pretty cheesy (skulls on the shields?) but I can't think of anything more 4th-5th edition than those old skeleton box sets. I remember seeing them in stores back in the day. But I am sure its all pretty expensive these days.

The forces in the 4th set, including Grom and all that, come to about 1000 points which is great as that is the magic number I was shooting for with the 6th edition stuff I was collecting. I haven't figured out what I have for 5th. Since I have those extra blisters I am going to make additional heros so I should be able to fill in some gaps just on what I have.

I am also not going to hunt down the magic sets for either. I know the magic spells in the 5th rulebook are pretty boring, and I haven't looked much into the 4th ones, but back in the day those magic rules seemed like a separate game on their own. It felt that way for 40k 2nd Psychic rules. So I am just using what is provided in the starters.

I know I am leaving an important part of the game out, but I really don't want to spend anymore time looking up rules than I have to. Which is why I am not crazy about Army/Codexes and all that. Games are pretty laid back and casual around here, but even still taking time to read up on something in the middle of the game is a real drag, and takes away from the game. Its part of the reason my collecting is so starter-set-centric now.

Remember the old metal stone trolls?

(https://i.redd.it/uqdv7cj5ydy41.png)

Well, I loved these guys back in the day even though I wasn't into Warhammer. I think they are some of the best models GW ever released. I might spring for those some day, but not in a hurry.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Jmash on June 22, 2021, 02:56:31 PM
 :icon_eek:

I'm astounded at what you've managed to acquire there, the condition and content of all of those above is unbelievable, all I can say is I hope your wallet has recovered from the shock! :-P
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 22, 2021, 03:43:49 PM
:icon_eek:
I'm astounded at what you've managed to acquire there, the condition and content of all of those above is unbelievable, all I can say is I hope your wallet has recovered from the shock! :-P

Yeah, its def bruised at the moment. The thing is, when I have my mind set on something, it can't rest till I have it. And I will pay a premium for nice condition. Especially the old stuff. the 4th ed set was expensive, but not as expensive as some other sets I have seen on ebay. And the 5th was a little more, but it came with all those extras. I didn't know what the Bretonnian king was going for new and was shocked when I found out. So considering all that I got in that lot, it was close to the deal of the year for me.

And I paid more for the High Elf War Griffon, Bolt Repeater, Grom and his chariot, Shaman on Wyvern, and stone thrower together than I paid for the starter. But I didn't want to get the starter without those other units so I felt I had to grab it all while I was looking at it than worry that someone else would buy something, and then I have to obsessively search for a replacement.

Speaking of which, this just arrived  :::cheers:::

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263998286_35d7da89f3_z.jpg)

One down, 4 to go.

I have been selling stuff myself too. I do tend to over buy when I don't have a plan. On all sorts of things I get into.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Jmash on June 22, 2021, 03:50:17 PM
I do know the feeling - I'm sure we all do unfortunately. I dread to think what I've spent on Warhammer over the years! :unsure:

Buy hey-ho, it's our hobby and if it brings us enjoyment then who cares? It's our money to spend on what we like right!?

Anyway, looks like you've landed yourself a great haul recently, looking forward to seeing them materialise in the future :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 22, 2021, 03:59:17 PM
6th I don't feel gets really good until about 2,000 points since i really enjoy the special characters, and most of them are restricted to 2,000+ (I have the codexes and brb memorized almost completely, looking up things isn't really something we do much anymore) I have also been playing 6th with a couple deviations into the terrible later editions for almost twenty years, and 4th and 5th for five years before that.

I sold some of my earlier purchased armies, and regretted it in a year or so when i realized i needed those units or characters. I have a full 4th/5th army selection/magic sets, books etc. as well as my 6th, but i don't segregate the models themselves based on edition release, my chaos are all 8th/aos models, except the special characters that i couldn't get new models of, Lizards as well. high elves are mostly 4th, etc.

Stone trolls are awesome. I have non gw ones i got for free in a lot from some now defunct austrailian mini company, i love them, if i get another unit one day, it'll be the gw ones.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 23, 2021, 12:01:20 AM
Brr-icy I will never get there. That’s just the reality. Not only is my collecting style to get a little bit of everything, I am incredibly slow to paint. I am a building fiend and love trying to restore other people’s trash, once stuff is primed it joins a huge line of projects. I think part of it is that I do not have a comfortable place to paint, whereas I can build a model anywhere: desk, couch, floor, patio. I have a little box with all my supplies and just take that wherever I want to make a kit.

Also, I am so eclectic I get bored quickly so constantly jumping in and out of various things. I might be reading like crazy in my spare time one week, working on model tanks the next, then decide bike riding is the thing to do, then assemble some 40K stuff after that. Sometimes I don’t even want to look at pending projects, and many are in an in-progress state.

This is why it’s hard to focus on just WFB. But also part of the reason I collect is so that when I do want it, it’s there. In my youth I would go to buy something, my Mom saying save your money, look around, then you can go back and get it if you still want, only for it to be gone when I did, has screwed me up for life.

So if I think I’ll want to do something with it even years out. I can take my time getting around to it. The important thing is that it’s there when I want it.

I guess everyone here understands that to some degree.

Anyway,  would take me an unbelievable amount of concentration I do not have for me to assemble even one 2,000 point army. I wouldn’t be able to keep the focus. Right now I’ve been in and out of about a 600 point (using 3rd edition rules here) Black Templar army for months! Can’t even knock that off and it’s one thing I really want to do.  :eusa_wall:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 23, 2021, 11:19:54 AM
I get that, there's three of us that collect all the things for 6th here. One assembles everything and paints a bit, another puts it in boxes and occasionally assembles, very little painting, then there's me that has to assemble a kit as soon as i get it, and paints most every week at least a bit, and has all but a couple hundred models (out of 4,000) painted to a decent standard.

My malfunction was i grew up poor, so now when i see something i want and have money for, i buy it. I used to paint from 4-6 hours a day as i was on opposite shifts to my wife, and then covid happened where i had little else to do than paint for 40 to 60 hours a week. My other hobby is much more expensive than this, so I guess i don't feel the sting of buying a $50 unit as much as some. I tend to buy used armies as well, a 5,000 point army for like $300 is a nice start for me, then i can pad it out with what is missing from the book.

This next couple weeks will be a chore for me to paint as i finally found a ps5, and I have been messing with my Transformer collection and want to get the shelves reorganized, maybe i will finish that unit of chameleon skinks i am halfway through painting lol.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on June 23, 2021, 11:50:39 AM
KTG17 and Brr-icy ...

Know the feeling of being poor in my youth, it wasn't fun.  Would see some thing I wanted, would save my pennies, or wait till the next Xmas cash came in the mail from grandparents, and then when I was ready to buy, it was gone.  I took to checking as many places out as I could, and discovered the joy of finding things in other places, and sometimes treasures were on sale from a few years before.

As I have matured, it has been tough to not spend money on what I enjoy with the whole miniatures hobby.  Some of that is because I can, and some of that is because I couldn't before, which is probably a strange psychology going with all that.  And now I even have a space to paint, store, lay things out, work on multiple projects and actually see them in front of me, pushing myself to do more, build more, create more, paint more, and play more games.

Covid 19, and my experience with it, and also my sense of mortality from what I do for work and my father's passing, has moved me even further in this direction, and it has become a more time consuming assault on all the unpainted miniatures and projects that I enjoy and want to do.  It has also become a challenge to find folks willing to play now that I am spending more time with the hobby than ever before.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 23, 2021, 03:12:18 PM
Wow, we're hitting some nerve endings here. I think my financial struggles early on might be affecting me as well. I do try to work within a monthly budget for hobby stuff, but how that money gets used during that month can vary. Sometimes I look for deals and can be strict on what I pay, and other times, especially if its out of print and in good condition, the cost is almost irrelevant as long as I don't go crazy over that monthly budget. And then there are times like with those 4th and 5th edition sets where those opportunities don't come often, and I just bite the bullet and cut back elsewhere.

There was a time when I only had $20 to last me a week or so for food, and I settled on peanut butter and jelly, bread, even tuna fish was a luxury item. But I didn't cry about it, I just stood there in the isle, telling myself I would never go through this again. And haven't. I do think my collecting can be a little excessive, especially when I have minimalist friends, but I guess when I have cash, and have this mental hang-up about not being able to afford it before, I am more willing to spend and ask questions later. There is a lot of waste, not just in space and time, but also the act of getting rid of things I overbought.

Thats why I keep on harping on about the starters. It sort of locks in what I will expand on. Everything has a purpose I can link to, and its a relief. I really hate having too much stuff, I even feel like I can feel the weight of it all on my shoulders. Thats why I limit everything to my home office. If I can't find a place for it then it means there is too much stuff and I have to get rid of something. I do the same thing with clothes actually lol. I only have so many hangers so when I buy new shirts and need a hanger for one, one of the older ones has to go.

I remember when I was younger and had far, far less, and those items had more meaning. I have def lost that. I do want each mini to mean something, but that's hard when you literally have 1000s.

****************************************************************************************************************

Questions: So I noticed that my High Elf Griffon is made by Marauder. I thought Citadel made all of GW minis back in the day. Who was Marauder? Did anyone play 3rd edition? I notice in some pics that armies were kind small. Well, real small by today's standards, and I assume thats because they were all metal back then and pricey. But were the games more complex? I mean I am literally seeing armies being shown off in old White Dwarf articles were there might be 2 units of 8 models, another of 4 or 5 models, a character or two, and maybe a war machine, and thats it. Was that a typical game size back then?

****************************************************************************************************************

Update: I cant say enough how excited I am about the 4th ed starter, and the new models I have coming in. I am seriously of resetting my project order, and starting with building and painting not only the 4th starter armies, but also working on my Rogue Trader era stuff, and working my way up to the modern sets.

Speaking of which, this just arrived:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266041766_2b78cd16c6_z.jpg)

How the heck do people resist opening the box????? This was released, when, in 1992??? I had it open in 2 seconds.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266041671_f89cd75570_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266041571_2114067091_z.jpg)

Really like Grom. I wanted to mount him on a base but since the chariot is too small I am going to try and make a base where I can just place the peg into when I want to use him on foot. Same for his banner carrier. Then I can be sure they are snug in the chariot when using that.

I am also going to mount this on a custom base, like I did for that Black Coach I showed early on in this thread. I have one more of those bases. Just going to cut it down to be 3 cavalry bases wide to match the three wolves.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 23, 2021, 04:34:00 PM
I have eaten mr noodles and hotdogs exclusively before, when it's just me, i actually don't mind it once in a while. But being married now, i have to buy real food lol. My other hobby is Transformers collecting, I did have every release from 1984-1992 a couple years ago, All of Generation one, this is the old room split between transformers and what i had for warhammer at the time: https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/brr-icys-collection.178846/

I ended up selling most of them off, and focused exclusively on warhammer for a year and a half. But now that i have some disposable income again, i am buying more masterpiece figures for display. I do have a very strict list of what I want to own though. Now I don't spend much on warhammer as i have all i want besides a few thematic list pieces. Now I have 6 cabinets for my collection (bigger than the ones pictured) 4 for warhammer, 2 for transformers. That's all I want.

I have a completionest attitude with my collecting, so having set character sets for transformers is helping quite a bit
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 23, 2021, 04:56:35 PM
Wow on that TF collection.

Have you heard of Diaclone? I lived in Asia when those were out and I loved them. I had a bunch of the diaclone drivers and some of my friends had some of the really big robots. I was a HUGE fan of the powered suit kits. One of my biggest regrets was getting rid of all them as I moved on to other toys.

Back then, being in Asia I was pretty much into Japanese toys, and had very little knowledge of what was going on back home. The only things I could buy in Hong Kong were star wars and he-man. I was huge into early GI Joe and of course when I saw the G1 Transformers in stores on a return visit, I was like, 'hey these are all diaclone!'. The reason many of the G1 Transformers open up or have cockpits like Optimis Prime were for these little one inch tall pilots, which were left out of the US toys and I am sure would be considered dangerous by today's standards.

The original Diaclones go for big bucks now, even in Japan. Still love G1 Transformers. I never had many, since they too were hard to get (usually only thru trade with other kids), but one and awhile I was able to order one, like Mirage. I normally had their Diaclone counterparts without the Transformer stickers and I was always sad about that.

If I could still have those today.  :eusa_wall:

They rebooted Diaclone in Japan but its crap.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 23, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
Does anyone know what size bases Orcs used in 4th? Were they the 25mm ones as in 6th? or the smaller 20mm ones? I just saw a pic of Grom on foot and he is on a 20mm base but that didnt seem right.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 24, 2021, 11:10:49 AM
Does anyone know what size bases Orcs used in 4th? Were they the 25mm ones as in 6th? or the smaller 20mm ones? I just saw a pic of Grom on foot and he is on a 20mm base but that didnt seem right.
25mm I'm pretty sure, my friend's orc army was on 25s back then

I have heard of diaclone, I've owned a few over the years, but i wasn't about to pay what they go for now to complete the line, especially with buying the Japanese G1 transformers from later in the years, they were expensive lol.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 24, 2021, 01:20:05 PM
Questions: So I noticed that my High Elf Griffon is made by Marauder. I thought Citadel made all of GW minis back in the day. Who was Marauder?

Formed by Ally and Trish Morrison, Marauder Miniatures was set up as a separate company in 1988, announced in WD106. The exact reason for forming a separate company is unclear, but may may been to establish multiple brands, or to keep personalities apart!
Their miniatures were cast and distributed by Citadel alongside the normal Citadel ranges, although at one time they were using the Wargames Foundry facilities. Later miniatures were also designed by Colin Dixon. They were reabsorbed back into the main Citadel ranges in 1993, about the same time that the 4th edition of Warhammer was launched. The last distinct Marauder advert is in WD152, after that they are shown in the normal White Dwarf catalog section. They continue to be listed in the catalogs as Marauder Miniatures until the 1994 catalog, and miniatures marked on the tab as Marauder continued to appear for several years.

Source: solelegends
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 25, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Thanks Fidelis! That was interesting.

Quick question on lapping around.

4th edition rulebook page 36 states:

“Models which are lapping around do not count as being within the unit’s formation, so lapping round models in this way does not negate your usual rank bonus if this applies.”

I am struggling with this. Does a unit who is lapping around get the rank bonus if it has the number count to do so, even if they are out of place? If so, why would it say they do not count as being within the units formation. And if they don’t count as a rank bonus, why does it say it does not negate? Maybe I am missing something here.

Do models in a unit that are lapping around, count as a rank of the number of models lapping around equal another rank? Or does the act of lapping around remove that bonus?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 25, 2021, 01:42:44 AM
Does anyone know what size bases Orcs used in 4th? Were they the 25mm ones as in 6th? or the smaller 20mm ones? I just saw a pic of Grom on foot and he is on a 20mm base but that didnt seem right.
25mm I'm pretty sure, my friend's orc army was on 25s back then

Grom is a goblin! That’s why he is on a 20mm base! I assumed by his size he was an Orc.

Makes more sense with the chariot having wolves.

I assumed with the Orc shaman on the Wyvern it was a goblin horde led by Orcs. Not the case.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 25, 2021, 08:32:59 AM
Regarding lapping around:  models that are lapping around do not count any longer for determining the rank bonus of your own unit, nor will they negate the rank bonus of the enemy unit.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 25, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Does anyone know what size bases Orcs used in 4th? Were they the 25mm ones as in 6th? or the smaller 20mm ones? I just saw a pic of Grom on foot and he is on a 20mm base but that didnt seem right.
25mm I'm pretty sure, my friend's orc army was on 25s back then

Grom is a goblin! That’s why he is on a 20mm base! I assumed by his size he was an Orc.

Makes more sense with the chariot having wolves.

I assumed with the Orc shaman on the Wyvern it was a goblin horde led by Orcs. Not the case.

I don't know his 5th rules, but in 6th he can't be used with orc characters as per this rule:

Goblin General
Grom would never follow anyone else, so if you take him he must be your general, regardless of the Leadership of any other characters. If you take Grom you must include at least one unit of common Goblins in your army. In addition, Grom would never tolerate the presence of anybody who might threaten his command. Therefore you may not include any Orc, Savage Orc or Black Orc Lord characters if Grom is your General.

Since a lot of the 5th rules carried over, i'd double check to see if he can be used with the wyvern rider
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 25, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
Regarding lapping around:  models that are lapping around do not count any longer for determining the rank bonus of your own unit, nor will they negate the rank bonus of the enemy unit.

Ok this makes sense, thanks once again Fidelis.

So I finished reading the 4th ed rulebook and I have to admit I found everything but that bit easy to understand the first time around. Maybe its just the manner it was written, or the print, or what, but I felt it was easier to digest than the later editions I was reading.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 10, 2021, 10:10:57 PM
Well, all the pieces for my 4th and 5th edition starters are coming together and I am too excited to keep it all to myself. First, the last thing I was waiting on finally arrived: the Orc War Wyvern.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51303151133_b418d85d3d_z.jpg)

I know I've been giving updates on this but its just great to see it all together. I do have the High Elf Bolt Repeater, its just loose in one of the boxes. So that being said, I have all the models to replace their card versions in the starter to play the Battle of Maugthrond Pass.

Also, as excited I am about working on the 4th starter set, I can't keep my eyes and hands off the 5th. I have to be honest, prior to getting this set, I really didn't care for or about these versions of the Bretonnians and Lizardmen. I have never, ever thought I would bother collecting them. I only own them because they came in the starter, but after reading the rulebook and battle book, I am really excited about having them. But I also realize that I am really lucky I bought the collection I did, considering it came with the Slaan Mage Priest, since at the time of getting the set, I had no idea that the Lizardmen army had to be led by one of those models. I assumed, like in 6th, I could use a Saurus or something. I just thought it would be cool to have the King of Bretonnia and Mage Priest to lead my little armies.

I think I mentioned this when I got the set, but the sale included 5 Knights in blister packs, a skink command group, and a mostly complete Kroxigor (missing the tail). At first I almost got rid of the Kroxigor since I only had one and assumed I needed more to make a unit, but not only did I learn I could use them individually, I was surprised to find I could use one in a unit of Skinks.

Then I discovered in the battle book, two sample army lists that I had most of the models for:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51302959061_49beb93fa4_b.jpg)

I mean, in this list there is a unit of Skinks with a command group, and another with just the Kroxigor... is that providence or what? I have no idea if this is what the original owner had in mind doing, but I am using these two lists to build my armies. I have the models for the general on horse, battle standard, and hero from the blisters packs. I also found two different Saurus command groups on ebay to fill out the Saurus units, and hunted down the Skink Cold One riders. Prob will get the command guys for the Bretonnian archers but have to be honest not a huge priority at the moment. Also going to use an extra Saurus body to give me a tail for the Kroxigor. I looked into just buying a whole one on eBay and they are kinda pricey.

Anyway, all this fulfills that desire to have a complete game in a box. I have to admit how amazed I am with the lizardmen. Even when I got the later Battalion set, I kinda got it for the hell of it since it was pretty cheap, only to be amazed at the designs when going through the sprues. I considered the early stuff silly, but now after reading through the rulebooks and army book, I really like the 5th ed Lizardmen too.

I don't know what the hell these two armies are doing in a starter set. I can't think of two armies that seem more out of place going against each other. But, its definitely different, and I am excited to build these armies.

And also, I enjoyed reading the 4th edition rulebook. Just how its written reminds me of other GW games I was into. But I REALLY like the 5th edition books. Both being full color. Really well done.

And it still amazes me, and I know I have said it before, how badly GW dropped the ball on the 8th starter set. I don't think they intended to kill the game when they released that set, but it doesn't surprise me that was the last edition of WFB. Models, excellent yes, but as a gateway into the hobby? I assumed they had an intern put it together.

Anyway, really appreciative of the guy who sold me the 5th stuff, as he did a lot of the leg work on starting my journey and I didn't even know it. It turns out I prob don't need the Bretonnian King but will hold on to it for awhile longer before deciding on what to do with it.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on July 12, 2021, 12:27:42 PM
Very nice. the old boxes from that era have a lot of nostalgia for me
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 03, 2021, 04:21:12 PM
So I said I was done buying for my 6th edition Battalions, but then this happened.

I was never really happy with my Vampire model for my Vampire Counts army, who was this guy:

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H27d6cfd3874b4153b1e3e3cfb92d4eacx/Vlad-von-Carstein.jpg_q50.jpg)

Most of all because I didn't have a version on horseback, and as we know I like having both for all my generals.

Well then I found this guy, instantly fell in love with it.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51651267347_408905ee1d_z.jpg)

But didn't know if they made a version on foot and it turns out they did some kind of limited release for it, and I was able to get one.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51652085841_533bdb7cbe_z.jpg)

So I now have my proper Vampire general on mount and on foot, his Battle Standard, and then a necromancer who isn't in the photo but is that plastic version thats been around for awhile.

Really really happy about this one. I think the mounted version is going to look awesome leading some undead Black Knights on a charge.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on November 03, 2021, 06:53:27 PM
Very nice, i love the new mannfred model. Going to stick to one bloodline then?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 03, 2021, 07:44:08 PM
Well he’s just a vampire thrall hero to me lol. Not planning on getting into characters.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 03, 2021, 11:06:44 PM
This is what I have for my Vampire Counts:

Thrall (as above)
Wight Standard Bearer
Necromancer

20 Skeletons
20 Zombies
10 Ghouls
10 Dire Wolves
2 Bases of Bats

5 Black Knights
10 Grave Guard

Black Coach
Banshee

Btw I recently discovered that 8th edition changed the way you could build your armies using the old school method of % for different kinds of units. I am actually thrilled about this as it seems a great way to try out small games. Not that I am rushing to try out 8th, but it gives me something to look forward to. Like Lords. :)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 04, 2021, 12:39:16 AM
I like that vamp on a horse and just the foot figure.  Will keep my eyes out for one of them! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on November 04, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
Btw I recently discovered that 8th edition changed the way you could build your armies using the old school method of % for different kinds of units. I am actually thrilled about this as it seems a great way to try out small games. Not that I am rushing to try out 8th, but it gives me something to look forward to. Like Lords. :)

Yeah, this could drastically change the number of Lords (and Heroes) in certain armies, and even in smaller games. IIRC, for example 8th ed O&G armies tended to have the number of Goblin heroes maxed out, because they are can be really killy or bring a lot of magic for cheap.

Then again weren't Vampire Lords quite expensive? So how many options does the percentile-based army composition system really open?

But unless you play in a tournament or with rule-lawyer type gamers, you can always agree to take cool figures and create interesting scenarios. IIRC, the White Dwarf has had several scenarios which intentionally threw away the point- and %- or slot-based army compositions. Like a group of Bretonnian heroes only fighting a horde of orcs or the like, or a group of giants bashing it out, or a train of Steam Tanks in a scenario, etc. etc.  :laugh:

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on November 06, 2021, 03:50:51 AM
But unless you play in a tournament or with rule-lawyer type gamers, you can always agree to take cool figures and create interesting scenarios. IIRC, the White Dwarf has had several scenarios which intentionally threw away the point- and %- or slot-based army compositions. Like a group of Bretonnian heroes only fighting a horde of orcs or the like, or a group of giants bashing it out, or a train of Steam Tanks in a scenario, etc. etc.  :laugh:

Yeah that's true. I just think until I really get going I am not all sure what units would hold their own against others.

So got an update I am really happy about.

First up is my new Army Standard for my 6th edition starter set army (a little more on this later):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51658016573_04c1d45cd6_z.jpg)

I made him from left over bits trying to use as many of the 5th/6th era bits as possible. The actual flag is from the later sets but I wanted something else other than the weird flag from the Empire command sprue since I already was using those flags in a couple of my units. Nothing fancy but I am really happy with him.

So the crew running my 6th edition starter Empire army are:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657793946_39fec11f3b_z.jpg)

I also set out to make an Orc Army standard, and actually hunted around on eBay until I decided to make one from bits. I had a left over Orc warrior I wasn't happy with (the one to the right), and decided to use him. I was unhappy with him because in order to try and make him look different I gave him an Ork helmet and face guard from the 40k Boyz set. It looked ok to me at first, but over time I grew to dislike it as it didn't fit with the same look and feel as my other Orcs.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51658466179_8417621cef_z.jpg)

I basically cut off one of his arms like you see in the middle figure, cleaned up the blade as it was connected to the other which I removed, and worked on the other arm to remove the other hand that was molded on the pole.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51658466084_a13bf9ec7c_z.jpg)

He actually came out nice enough to me that I am going to leave that helmet. In a mass of ranked troops he didn't fit  but on his own I think he looks the part. So my Orc command group includes:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51658465979_c9ae671ac2_z.jpg)

Now some of you might be thinking, "Hey, I saw in some pages back you already had the later Empire General and the standard that came in that set", and you would be correct. Covid gave me a lot of time to think about how I want to spend time on my hobby, and I realized I was kind of disorganized and all over the place with interests. After getting the earlier WFB sets, and finding that I really liked them, I decided to fill in all the gaps I had in 40k as well, so I now have all the 40k and WFB game versions they released.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51656978967_99172e9324_z.jpg)

I posted a few pages ago about how I was focusing on starter sets, trying to capture the time period and feel in the games as they were when they were released (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=53028.msg1077034#msg1077034), and it really has changed my life. So much so that I have sold off a lot of stuff this year. Well over $5,000 if you can believe it. Not all of that was WFB and 40k, but a lot of it was. A lot of bits stuff too. But I had all sorts of models, Battleforce sets, and so on, that I really didn't want anymore. The main reason why was if I focused on the world that was being created in each starter set, if I focused on the minis that came in those sets, maybe expanded on some here and there, I would usually have something to look forward to once I moved on to the next version (with the exception of 40k 7th). Now WFB is no longer getting new releases and I am not touching AOS, but I still have a great deal to still explore as I go back to the beginning and work my way forward. No necessarily to play, but enjoy the reading and hobby aspect of things. In some instances I did keep units to add to a specific starter, like Tyranids for 4th, or some Orc stuff I had I can add to 5th, but whatever I am keeping is more or less meant to enhance the armies in a starter set, not an army per say. And these aren't big armies either. I am talking just expanding a little on what comes in each starter.

So even though I did already have that kick ass Empire General and Standard Bearer, since he was a later edition, I wanted to mostly use the models that were available at the time for the Empire and Orc armies in the starter set. I have undone a lot of what I have poster earlier on here. I still have one 8th edition Empire Battalion set with some additional units, but I'll get to those in some years down the road (I did sell the other one I had for a staggering $300), and thats what my newer Empire General will lead. Anyway, since I am trying to capture the look and feel of each army in each box set for that time period, there is no way for example, that I would use 8th edition models in 4th edition, and vice-versa. They don't match the time period. I also want to use the painting and basing techniques for their time period as well, so yes, this probably means Goblin Green bases for 4th edition, then get into more realistic looking terrain as I move up in the starter sets. So I have cheesy and cool at the same time.

I know this seems crazy, but the cool thing about having all of these starters is not only can I go back and fill in the holes on what I missed (even with 40k), but the models and story evolves and it really feels exciting looking forward to making something out of each one of these sets.

Over the years I primarily kept using 40k 3rd edition since I could use the army lists in the rulebook and not have to hunt down codexes. I really wanted to build other models and have variety so I hunted down models that fit in those army lists, knowing I was missing out on newer units. Focusing on the starters means I get a taste of something new from each time period, like Primaris for example, without having to buy their codex. I can just use the rules included in the 8th and 9th sets. And since GW has given us a variety of bad guys to fight (Orks, Orks, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Crimson Slaughter, Crimson Slaughter, Death Guard, Necrons) it seems to be enough to get my feet wet without having to keep up with the rest of what is going on in each edition. And I am doing the same with the marines - Crimson Fists, Blood Angels, Black Templars, Ultramarines, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, and Ultramarines. I just grab the starter, some extra splash items like objective markers, cards, whatever, and immerse myself in that. Its really helped me get rid of a lot of clutter as everything usually fits in the starter when I am done.

Anyway, I know that was long, but this is about the most excited I have been about this hobby in years.

I only worked on these two standard bearers because I was cleaning out more stuff, and saw I had set these bits aside and decided to finish them off. I do intend to work on WFB 4th edition models, finish those armies, then move on to 5th. So I wont be painting any of these until I work my way to 6th. With 40k I am starting with Rogue Trader and working on my Imperial Space Marines and Space Orks, then moving up as well.

PS: I did sell off a ton of 40k stuff, but I aside from selling some WFB units here and there and that extra Empire Battalion, I have no interest in selling anything further. When I am done painting all of the models from the starter sets I will take on the Battalions. I am still blown away by those sets and are much more looking forward to any of those than I ever was for the Tau for example.

God I can't believe I ever bought Tau models.  :?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on November 06, 2021, 09:13:12 AM
I've always enjoyed seeing your hobby develop.

Don't think it is crazy, but instead a great way to have fun. :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on November 08, 2021, 12:33:38 PM
Definitely a cool approach to collecting them. Looking forward to seeing them painted
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Michael Stockin on November 17, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on December 12, 2021, 06:05:59 PM
Okay big update today! I've finished assembling everything I have for 4th edition!

High Elves:

**I do have shields for whichever model uses one, but I have not attached them as I will do so after they are painted**

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741829106_3fd9ccc7db_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741828921_4393d5348c_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741828786_4cca937a86_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742718465_fa5b8e457a_z.jpg)

Here is the army list from the scenario.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741827196_5270004fcb_b.jpg)

One thing I want to point out on the archers: in all the GW pics of any archers from this period, they were always mounted 45 degrees on their bases, and I really hated that. When you mounted them in a straight slotbase, they couldnt be positioned in two ranks without off-setting the second rank, which GW did in a lot of their pictures. I was all set on making new regimental bases to make room for that, but then I gave mounting them on a normal base, and just off-setting them just enough to give them room to fit like any other model would and it worked. So I used regular bases for all of these guys as opposed to the slot bases that came in the set. Very, very glad I did this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741828556_5089e3aeb4_z.jpg)

Now, one of the things that I am pretty specific about is being sure I have a foot version of any general mounted on a horse or monster and Eltharion is no exception. I know its a little odd looking but it will do it for me. While the model has his spear and bow molded on the model, there is no mention of them in the scenario book or even the 4th edition army book, just his magic sword. I admit he looks a little plain around the waist area so will prob add some pouch or dagger there or something. I really only intend on using him if something happens to Stormwing, or maybe if I want to play a smaller game and just use him on foot.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741006292_10261aa88b_z.jpg)

I posted some time ago about the really old school Silver Helms, but here are some of the other models I picked up. I thought someday I would love to use these High Elves or the Goblins in this set against the 5th edition starter Bretonnians or Lizardmen, and I have added character models to those, so I thought it would be cool, if not necessary, to have them for these guys. Not that I need them for the scenario, but if I ever wanted to mix things up I had these models to do it. So added a general on horse, mage, army standard, two command groups for the spearmen, and a hero on horse.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741006077_398e22d933_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742475474_c564a31b6d_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742475384_31615ba670_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742068683_71831992e0_z.jpg)


Goblins:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742475194_c1a3354f49_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741827966_68864cd62f_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742717615_aac1607824_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741827066_52d10f7b21_b.jpg)

I've given Grom the same treatment as Eltharion. I originally intended to make some custom base where I could just unplug him from the hole in his chariot and plug him into a base, but I just decided to get another model.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742717495_0de9953e2e_z.jpg)

I am actually doing the same for the Orc Shaman which I forgot about, but he isn't ready yet. I have the legs and feet for him, just havent gotten around to it yet. Its actually going to take a lot of work but I think it would be well worth it.

Also, I made the chariot base by cutting down the largest square base GW made for WFB, setting the width the length of three cavalry bases and long enough to match a standard chariot base. I just figured mounting the wolves on just the cavalry bases was a recipe for disaster.

Now, since I got the Silver Helms I needed something for the Goblins and used this and an excuse to hunt down a unit of Stone Trolls, prob my favorite WFB minis from this period. Never had any reason to buy them until now, and stoked I finally have them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741827706_3a6afd3db5_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741827536_fc4d558c8a_z.jpg)

The chariot is actually an extra I bought for my 6th edition Orc/Goblin army. I bought two back when I was buying stuff like it was going out of style, and now don’t feel the need for two when I prob have more Orc/Goblin stuff for 6th than I do any other army, so I thought it would be fun to paint up one in the bright colors of 4th and then the darker, more realistic version for 6th.

I also picked up these Goblin command guys.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51741005202_00d112438e_z.jpg)

Little disappointed in the standards. I actually bought the old school banners for the elves and goblins - you know the sticker sheets that came in the blister packs? Well, their poles are too short for any kind of standard sheet, and I checked the army book and it seems they cut the poles, extended them, then added the banner. I am not planning on doing that. I like the standards as they are, but are disappointed I wont be using the stickers for them.

Also the scenario calls for an important piece of terrain called a Standing Stone. I had no idea what one of those were so did some looking and found a set of these someone was selling. I cut it down with a band saw because i felt it was too big, and are excited about having this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742717085_df90a3cea4_z.jpg)

Now the next thing I am going to show I am REALLY excited about. I have been holding on to this for years waiting for the right project to use it for and I have found it...






















































(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742474399_16b306557e_z.jpg)

So yes, I am painting all the bases in goblin green, just like in the old days. I figure that I can do the more realistic bases in later editions, but for this one and 5th I want to capture the look and feel of the time period. I also intend on doing my 40k 2nd edition bases in this as well, so I really have to make this pot go far. I am going to start actually painting these armies soon and have promised to not work on any other games until these are done.

And finally, everything I have showed you fits in the starter set except the monsters, which is a really big plus for me. The monsters will go in a display case.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51742716710_2ecd193fa6_z.jpg)

I can't emphasize enough how much fun this has been. I even gave some thought about making a 1000 point Empire army from this period, but decided this is enough. After this I will be working on the Bretonnian and Lizardmen armies from the 5th starter, so that will be 4 armies from this period and that's enough. Besides I have them coming in the 6th starter, and have a Battalion set after that.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on December 12, 2021, 10:39:15 PM
Congrats! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap:

And love the tip on the elf archers, thanks! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 26, 2022, 03:15:39 AM
Ok quick update I have another exciting one coming hopefully tomorrow but maybe the day after. But in the meantime I just finished this.

So a long time ago I posted this guy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427150696_6b751437c3_z.jpg)

The guy on the right was my first Runesmith who I made by combining a miner, a miner standard, and a warrior.

Well, I wasn't crazy about him as a Runesmith and decided to buy an actual Runesmith so I decided to turn him into my army Battle Standard:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49039256358_b5dba22dba_z.jpg)

But I was never really thrilled with him, so I decided to make a new bearer using some really old Dwarf parts. I think they might have been the first Dwarf warrior sprues, because I had the 8th edition Battalion set and these sprues didn't come in that. Anyway, I used the same banner above for this guy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844152220_2891afbdc3_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843411836_2d0c2917f8_z.jpg)

I gave some thought to buying an official Battle Standard, but this gave me a chance to use up some bits and I am much happier with it than I was before with the other.

So I am going through one of my 'purges', and have sold off a lot of stuff from a variety of interests. I decided to let go of the said 8th Dwarf Battalion set since I actually had 20 of the warriors that came with the Skull Pass set, and with all the other units, I just figured I had enough warriors. I really didn't need all that came in that set. I am probably going to sell a couple of Battalions, but honestly with buying the previous starters sets, I feel like I have enough from certain races that I don't need all those Battalions I bought. Def keeping some, but for example I don't think I need all the Skaven stuff I bought in addition to the Island of Blood set. So as usual I over bought, but having some things in hand really helped me decide which models I really wanted.

Anyway, hopefully have a 4th/5th edition update in a day or two.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on January 26, 2022, 04:16:20 PM
Okay so here is the big news.

So after falling pretty hard for the 4th and 5th edition starters, I started to feel a little left out on the older Empire stuff. There are some things I have always liked, like the old Great Cannon. I was reluctant to even buy anything more for the Empire since I already have a lot, but it was bothering me that the only human army I have for 4th and 5th were Bretonnia and they aren't really don't reflect the kind of human army I really like. The one day I was flipping through the 5th edition Empire army book and found this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51845053505_2ea4d22c9d_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844313546_f575cd9a69_c.jpg)

So at 1000 points it matches right up with my other 4th and 5th armies. I did some investigating on how hard it would be to get these minis in good condition and it seems the old Halberdiers would give me some problems. I was able to find everything else (complete in their original packaging) pretty quickly, but it all hung on getting 2 boxes of 8 Halberdiers so I could be sure to have their shields and most importantly decals. I found 2 boxes on ebay and set things in motion, only to win one of the auctions and to not the other. I was pretty crushed. By this point I had started buying the other minis so I thought it might be a long time before I could find another box, but luckily the one box I won came with 16 decals instead of what I assumed would be 8, and so I was able to find loose Halberdiers and their shields separately.

So, I have the exact army in the army book minus a couple of champions I am not sure I'll ever get.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843391982_dd2e64aba6_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844689109_5650a674ac_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51845063475_007d553422_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844689039_2e4097b1f3_z.jpg)

I have to admit, I am not as crazy about all of the empire uniforms, and I have never been a Knights Panther fan, but they are different from the direction I went with my 6th stuff so I think that's kind of exciting project-wise. I know most of these are more 4th edition models, and that during 5th edition GW released a lot of Empire units in plastic, but I really wanted the older models to go with my other older army designs.

Anyway, now this is def it. Not buying anymore Warhammer armies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on January 27, 2022, 01:36:07 AM
Ha! So it is said. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 07, 2022, 03:26:32 AM
I have a quick question about 4th/5th edition Empire armies. Were Empire armies back in the day made up of State Troops from different states? I know in later edition Empire armies were kind of painted to all be from the same place, but I thought I saw somewhere, maybe here, where the early Empire armies were made up of regiments from different states.

I guess you could argue you could still do that, but I want to paint up my army above as it would have more likely had appeared when it came out in the mid-1990s.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on March 07, 2022, 11:02:33 AM
The 4th ed (1992) Empire book showed units from different provinces and knightly orders, and included the Engineers, Kislev and Halflings. Very colourful. (I couldn't find photos of Imperial Dwarfs or Ogres.) One army photo has two units in Talabecland yellow and red, that's the closest you get to a force from a single province.

On the other hand, the composition of the Empire army used to have more special units. The Reiksguard, for example, were the common heavy infantry unit, and they of course came from Altdorf. This is in contrast to the 6th ed Greatswords, who were provincial/electorial guard. Also, typical armies had at least one knightly order unit, which have their own colours.

Yet the 4th ed Empire book had very few photos of painted models, compared to the 6th ed and onwards. Also, the studio had just created the stricter army lists and a wholly new range of models, and the Empire was the first army book. Probably they hadn't had the time to paint full armies for any province at the time the army book photos were taken.

5th ed didn't see a new Empire armybook, but I recall that the White Dwarf started to show more and more uniform Empire armies towards the later 90's, especially when the 5th ed multipart plastic Empire Regiment/State Troops box arrived. Altdorf/Talabheim red and white started to emerge as the commonplace studio army colour combination in these times. Although Middenland blue was also present.

The 4th ed Empire army book had a colour plate of the provincial colours, as did the White Dwarfs where the new Empire armybook & models were presented. I guess people started to paint along those lines, and provincial armies became a thing quite soon.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 07, 2022, 02:15:02 PM
Thanks Z, I guess I'll do different provinces since my 6th models will all be from the same. Should be fun. I know I wanted to paint my Halberds as Altdorf as they appear on their box, but I wasnt sure what to do with the handgunners and crossbow men.

I did notice the lack of pics for units in the army book, which is why I was struggling with this. BTW, I did notice that the army book was released for both 4th AND 5th, with publishing dates of 1993 and 1996, respectively. I have the pdf of the 5th, and watched a youtube review of 4th, and it seems the only difference is that 5th includes that army list I made my army from above. That is actually not in the 4th ed version, and the 5th edition Bretonnian and Lizardmen armybooks both have a 1000 example army. Aside from that the books appear to be the same, unless point values changed.

BTW I said I was done, but I did pick up the old metal handgunner champion with the pistol and the bald halberdier holding his helmet. Great figures. There is something so great about these older metal models. They have a great deal of character.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on March 07, 2022, 03:30:56 PM
I have the pdf of the 5th, and watched a youtube review of 4th, and it seems the only difference is that 5th includes that army list I made my army from above. That is actually not in the 4th ed version, and the 5th edition Bretonnian and Lizardmen armybooks both have a 1000 example army. Aside from that the books appear to be the same, unless point values changed.

Yes, they did reprint the 4th ed book for the 5th ed, with that added army list. I recall no changes in point values, but can be wrong, of course. Only got the 4th ed print.

Love the early 90's full metal Perry sculpted Empire range! :::cheers:::

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Naitsabes on March 07, 2022, 04:17:14 PM
I think Zygmund hit the nail on the head. When they made the 4th edition book they only had so many painted models in the studio. It's basically the same handful of statetroops in all the pictures. And if you want to be authentic to that period, just paint the weapon shafts bright red.  :roll:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on March 24, 2022, 02:37:15 PM
Well, this is prob my last update on this thread. I hope from here on out it will be in the Brush and Pallet and Battle Reports section.

As many of you are aware, I bought too much. I really got Warhammer Fantasy fever and I bought a crap load with big plans. Thankfully I got 90% of it pre-covid so I didn't pay the obscene prices many things are going for today. But I had always felt that once I got all I wanted, I could take my time building and painting and enjoy the hobby at my own pace.

Well, then I got the 40k fever too and filled in all the starter sets I didn't already have, and some other stuff (what else was there to do during Covid?). I really worked up a pretty ambitious pile of shame. I don't have any regrets on any of the starter sets I have bought for either system, but I do kind of on all the additional battalion battle force sets in addition to whatever else I might have got. Its amazing what you get suckered into buying. What the hell was I thinking. I was just excited I guess.

Anyway, I move at a snails pace if that isn't obvious already and have so many interests its near impossible to focus on any one thing for long. I decided to stop everything I was doing and start at the beginning of time and work my way to the present, meaning that I would start with my Rogue Trader/2nd edition 40k stuff, and work my way to Indomitus, and start with 4th WFB and work my way to 9th. I thought this would be a fun way to revisit the hobby over the years.

So in doing so I re-organized my hobby closet and took everything out and only put back the games from the earliest time period for both 40k and WFB, and the other games that were out at the time. The rest went into a closet in another room out of sight (ironically this is the room where I put things to sell on ebay - essentially to see if I can live without it, and if so, it goes on sale).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51958860220_6515ca8434_z.jpg)

What is crazy is that while this is much less than what I had in there before, its still a ton of stuff to work on.

One of the things I am realizing is that all that filler was getting in the way of stuff I really wanted to work on, and worse, some of the stuff I have is so important to me that I am afraid to even doing anything with it. Take Man O' War for example. I have been a huge fan of that game since it was released, even though I wasn't much of a WFB fan. So over the years I have patiently tracked down everything released for the game in order to build 1000 point fleets for each race. When I finally got the last thing, it really was a big deal. I've been at it for 20 years. I absolutely still love the game. But now with all the models, and the brittle sails and masts, I am hesitant to work on it for fear I screw something irreplaceable up. And it is like that with several games/models that I have: I dont work on my favorite stuff and spend too much time on the expendable stuff.

So I decided to focus on what I think is the golden age of GW by limiting myself to what you see in the pic. Just get the other stuff out of sight, so all I see is the important stuff. I do like what I see from 6th WFB and Mordheim, and while I do intend to finish off my starter armies and gangs, I am not sure I will ever get around to all the stuff after that, let alone all those Battalion sets. I am already thinking of selling some of them. I've already sold many of my old 40k battleforce sets, and I never thought I could do that. But I am actually far more excited to work on my 4th and 5th WFB armies than I am my 6th, or after, ones. Never thought I would feel that way.

I really hate piles of shame. I have watched some youtube vids of others people's piles and are thankful I am nowhere near as bad as some, but what I think it does (besides waste money) is distract you from focusing on what you think is really important. So there might be something I would or should be working on, but I am distracted by something else I am less passionate about, and then nothing gets done. Less is better than more, I see that now.

There are a few other games I am still painting up for that aren't in the pic, like the original Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine games. Those are from this period as well. I keep falling back on these earlier games. There is something about that golden era character that I am drawn to.

So anyway, many thanks to everyone who helped me in this thread. Its been quite the experience.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on March 26, 2022, 02:55:59 PM
More is better for me, i'm sitting on 4,000 painted models roughly for 6th only.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 10, 2022, 11:42:33 PM
Okay one more post here because this just happened.

My god I finally f***ing did it. Finally found that sweet spot for my 6th starter Empire and Orc armies.

When I first got into this hobby, I was all over the place mostly from the excitement from all the new stuff I was exposed to, and I bought too much. Same happens with my other hobbies. So trying to find a way to trim down and enjoy what each starter brought, I decided to base my armies around what was included in the starters. For awhile I was trying different things for my 6th starter, but was never really happy with the units and the points I was spending. I decided to expand each up to what the Battalion sets at the time included, with some extras, and I am really happy now. So here are my 1000 point Empire and Orc armies for the 6th starter:

** Empire (using the 6th Army Book) **

Captain + Heavy Armor, Shield, Warhorse, Barding - 70
Captain + Heavy Armor, Battle Standard - 79
Battle Wizard + Level 2 - 95
20 Spearmen + Shields, Champion, Standard, Musician - 165
10 Handgunners + Champion, Standard, Musician - 100
10 Handgunners - 80
8 Knights + Champion, Standard, Musician - 224
Great Cannon - 100

Total - 913 ~ so leaves some points to add magic items

** Orcs (using the 6th Army Book) **

Big Boss + Light Armor, Shield, Boar - 85
Big Boss + Light Armor, Battle Standard - 92
Shaman + Level 2 - 100
20 Boyz + Additional Hand Weapon, Champion, Standard, Musician - 168
10 Arrer Boys + Light Armor, Champion, Standard, Musician - 108
10 Arrer Boys + Light Armor - 80
10 Goblin Wolf Riders + Spears, Shields, Champion, Standard, Musician - 160
Orc Chariot - 80
Spear Chukka - 35

Total - 908 (which leaves some points for magic items)

So you'll notice I am using the army books here instead of the Raven Hordes I have always referred to, but I started going out and getting the army books or codexes for all the armies in any starter set that was released at the time. Its not my intention to get another army book for 6th for any other army I decide to keep.

So I think these armies might look kind of boring, and I imagine some peeps are sick of the models since I imagine some of them have been around for so long, but since I missed out on those days, they are ok for me, and since I see them in pics from that era all the time, I feel like they capture the feel of the time period, even if they aren't solid armies. Actually, both seem rather shooty. And I know I can break up the handgunners without the standard up into detachments if I ever want to go that route.

I have some other units I really was so stoked to get before but just couldn't find a place for them in a 1000 point army list, so prob will let most of them go. I am really trying hard to shrink down my collection.

It's just kind of funny how typically the models in the starters tend to be the less impressive of the models released, but I really try to get the most milage out of them. Still not planning on working on these models until I am done with my 4th and 5th starters. Just trying to get the armies ready for when I get there.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on July 13, 2022, 03:12:37 AM
Getting ready could involve cutting, cleaning, trimming, priming, and painting.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 18, 2022, 02:43:46 PM
I think thats fine TBH.
Fairly even matchup - Orcs probably have the edge IMO, but thats fine.

I wouldn’t worry about the arrow boys being shooty - they are still orcs with T4 and a rank so can get into combat with anything except the knights and have a decent chance.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on March 09, 2023, 08:22:34 PM
How's your Empire and Orc armies coming along? :engel: