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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: Rogers Kul on February 27, 2016, 07:53:40 PM
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Hi everyone,
I write you in representation of a group of warhammer players who are planning to make one of the largest Warhammer battle ever done. We don’t know what is the Guiness Record about that (in fact, there is no record in the Guiness Book about these matters…), but after a searching on the net we found an awesome, enthusiastic, inspirational battle series from Australia. I know his director is also registered in this forum (I salute you Hoodling’s!) and we have been following his blog for years.
Well, if I am not wrong, they put the limit in the Battle of Heffengen with about 35.000 points per side. All painted, of course. So, now we want to push the limits beyond in a battle of 40.000 points per side. It will be the recreation of an historical battle that all of you surely know:
The Battle at the Gates of Kislev
When and Where
The battle will take place in October (EDIT: Probably, at the end of 2017) in a town near Barcelona. We want to prepare all the stuff correctly to make the battle as awesome as possible.
Background
As you maybe know, the Battle at the Gates of Kislev is the final confrontation between the forces of Order (basically, Empire and Kislev, with a little support from Dwarves and High Elves) against the forces of the Dark Gods during the Great War against Chaos. There is a lot of information about that time in different Warhammer Armies books and other Supplements. In fact, it was the last large chaos invasion before the Storm of Chaos leaded by Archaon. It took place between 2.301 and 2.303 (Imperial Calendar) but some of the characters who play an important role in the war are well known: Teclis, Kholek Suneater, Scyla Anfingrimm, Magnus the Pious, Arbaal the Undefeatable, Valnir the Reaper, High King Alriksson… and many others, including Asavar Kul the Anointed, the Chaos commander.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y9tttNY16vILgn2yxnlB2xYGbzZcNHmpedkM7Aigq_IXDbwf70tuOUeIlPxbXun0lkAhaTbxK2HIPkBsHJc8t0PyxaHNkipugWfEq-rdodhR7sHgGK3QybNadAZyVn6a9fZbwMj-ym7bHvLFsh0-du-p4504zHc__3pd0KBW3gMFHmXZJTbXHy4F_63btjrch3mP-vLPBB2Z8aJkyAnAOwXDYYn4l1md-EoADkWFQhkmRgWJpDJW9gaVq9CvQtfleN0u-CsKBqQnawbpuvsCzJce-l2uFnhqM5HoebAAFLtB8DywFA5oCdt7JzvFGhIZFpGzMRROk1-wswOnuxRA-rdyFw1EShKEM5yeniuw1sLHXDIhF2u4eQBZNZg8HCL5wDW7sZu_GbiSXl4u65n6G-dUMv4dbAIL8-3YOlwj3mluIOqsm8Ra2e7eppoh2vgw9pllBB-ptLRSndicnajgHCRG_ZUo_y2LI--4R3ZsRtl0wi-j2XZKfuzmSx5rv_xE7EAkn3FWBH92SQ1SsFMXf4VWZx37gm3DtAtNpc5yZjEPVwrJntq-ABR_gxWPOw=w245-h300-no)
How
We have some experience in large battles (but obviously not as large as this!). Last year we played a 12.000 points per side battle, and also a siege battle recreating the siege of Altdorf by Glottkin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpLmRX5kJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpLmRX5kJU)), where 20.000 points of Chaos attacked 10.000 points of Imperial defenders. So, we have some experience on these matters. But 40.000 points per side is something special and unique. We will make a big effort in economic and time-working terms. And precisely for that reason, we want to make it in the best way possible.
All miniatures of the table will be painted, of course. That’s the minimum. But we will also focus on scenery. Epic battles claims for epic scenery. So, with that idea in my mind, we search for the best scenery range in the market… and we find another member of that forum: Tabletop World.
Thanks to them, we will try to recreate not only some solitary buildings in the table (such a guard tower, a mill or a bridge), but also the gates and buildings of Kislev itself!!
There will be 4 players per side (EDIT: 3 for Team Kul, 4 for Team Magnus) who will lead an entire flanc or an army host. For example, in the Empire side, one player will lead the defenders of Kislev, while another will drive the cavalry army who will appear in the second turn.
Rules
We will use 9th Age rules to play the battle. This fantastic fanmade rulebook is now the version largely most used in Spain, and we will try to convince the rest of you to use their rules: it’s free, is well playtested and is well balanced. At any rate, we will introduce some little changes for this specific battle because of its huge dimension. EDIT: We've changed that. We'll finally use WF 8th edition
Preparation
Of course we will make a battle report and we will also record it for youtube, but meanwhile we have created a specific blog (both in English and Spanish) where all information, armies, models, etc could be found. We will try to update it at least one or two times per week, showing conversion ideas, painted miniatures, modelling articles and others:
http://thegatesofkislev.blogspot.com.es/
This is a crazy idea, but we want to make it. And most important, we want to share it with you. We hope this could be an inspiration for other players (as the Hoodling’s Hole was for us) and maybe you could take some ideas about painting schemes, conversions, fillers, scenery or anything else. By the way, there will be a lot of ministures non from GW range, such as Rackham, Mom, Scibor, Avatars of War, Mierce, Forge World…
After this large explanation I will stop writing… Later I will explain you some interesting things about the army list, characters and other.
Any comment/opinion will be well received!
P.S. I know that some years ago Hoodling's Hole started a post with this very same goal. That post has helped me a lot to prepare this battle. Thanks all of you who participated in that post.
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VERY EXCITING!
This is (or should be) every warhammer player's dream. Looking forward to seeing how you progress. How much will you be trying to stay true to the sometimes contradictory sources. e.g. is there a separate cavalry army charging down heroe's hill? Is the Dwarf High King in the city (like in some of the older material) or coming to the rescue from a flank (I think that is how it's described in 'Empire at War')? Can you share some of the details...as much as you've nailed it down at this point?
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Hmmm, there is someone here who knows what I am talking about! Good point, Naitsabes.
Actually there are a lot of versions concerning this war. We've been collecting almost all of them within different army books (monstly Empire, but also Reign of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos, Champions of Chaos, Dwarves, High Elves...) from different Wahammer editions, and other books (Empire at war is one of them), even in the description of some magic items (i.e. stuff of Volans, Banner of Griphon...) or special characters (i.e. Tarok and Angkor, the Chaos War Mammoth, from Forge World).
We gathered all the information from them in order to fill the gaps and achieve as many information as posible. Finally I made a document that you can take a look in the blog; I'm sorry but unfortunately this is the only part I wrote only in spanish because most of my sources were in this lenguage.
But answering your questions, High King Alriksson will deploy inside Kislev, because this is the most common version.
The Cavalry Army (Imperial Vanguard Army in the picture below), will enter from the flank of Chaos Army in the second turn. Probably I will add a hill in the battleboard that is not indicated in the picture; but if I do so, it will be closer to Magnus.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VXJL3Ao2MlOgwmWss3dbdyAbr5EDdL9bRiCCMO5GZU5Ggx55BxGozS3-YiSV1WGYQgb-aaY5945jGskV9gA7OXWe2GCNnE08mdUoZIja_9G2CWxc0jzwGfg4jCZ3UZMcFVeqLXfCmTOJzeSn_cA5h64T6NwWiiCf30qatFyjLHFxFxVsajebXuIFPupZajTi0hcPiyPLpMXdlTbtR_-QehOPqN37kNO1tWMvh6qon9L2JptmKoiHj1xUVSdiON5su63huedtUirqu6E49AZW9qM5tyHLyhusZD9S8lf-Z4jFkGeSIHdabGqjqqqzanvxNcquq8gaHV80jXPHGElJPnDdHjJkjFm-LTBU85_BCJoDOZcDgId342WfNWA6QDTxrmh3gs4a4d8xug6mb0US5Dp6X2d0JSSikIDE0hj08lazANHRuE9vaBOsrnXr4DYbU1hf6W-3-rFtPUkhpDpqrKopLSxPnFAk8T7Wkvxxhfz47H5AyAA39Gg1TrXb4ZvMgQJHb5ZH5i4qGn5BbVpV9ASBlHjUbJv2QtwP1hjzNl0MgF5fFfJr5AWhsGlYU8g=w1081-h328-no)
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AWESOME! This is the coolest thing I've ever heard of!
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Very cool.
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Hmmm, there is someone here who knows what I am talking about!
well, we have been thinking about staging that very same battle over here for quite some time. But, always decided that it needed to be even bigger than what we had available model-wise and so did something else instead. Now, you are about to set the bar pretty high! But one day, our time will come.
We gathered all the information from them in order to fill the gaps and achieve as many information as posible. Finally I made a document that you can take a look in the blog; I'm sorry but unfortunately this is the only part I wrote only in spanish because most of my sources were in this lenguage.
I think I found it: 'Trasfondo oficial de la Gran Guerra contra el Caos'. Let's see what google translate can do. And, even just having that list of sources at the end is very useful. Now if you had a list of ALL the sources (even the contradictory ones) please post.
Hope you guys can deliver on your rather ambitious painting schedule. I love the scratch built giant war altar. Keep it up!
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Like with Hoodlings battles I approve! :closed-eyes:
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This is really exciting! Can't wait to see what comes of this, it'll certainly put the 9th rules to the test. :biggriin:
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I think I found it: 'Trasfondo oficial de la Gran Guerra contra el Caos'. Let's see what google translate can do. And, even just having that list of sources at the end is very useful. Now if you had a list of ALL the sources (even the contradictory ones) please post.
Of course I can (if I remember it all!):
Warhammer Armies: Reign of Chaos (1998)
Warhammer Armies supplement: Champions of Chaos (1998)
Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos (2008)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (1995)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (2000)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (2011)
Warhammer Armies: Dwarves (2005)
Gotrek and Felix: Beastslayer (2001)
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Realms of Sorcery (2005)
The History of Bernhart the Brave (a short story from Inferno! magazine) (pdf)
Warhammer: Heirs of Sigmar (2005)
The Empire at War (2006)
The Empire. Uniforms and heraldry (2008)
Warhammer Rulebook 8th Edition (2009)
Forge World rules for Angkor, the Chaos War Mammoth (pdf)
There are other books, such as newer versions of the Warhammer Armies, but they only repeat exactly the same text of older versions.
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FANTÁSTICO :eusa_clap:
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I think I found it: 'Trasfondo oficial de la Gran Guerra contra el Caos'. Let's see what google translate can do. And, even just having that list of sources at the end is very useful. Now if you had a list of ALL the sources (even the contradictory ones) please post.
Of course I can (if I remember it all!):
Warhammer Armies: Reign of Chaos (1998)
Warhammer Armies supplement: Champions of Chaos (1998)
Warhammer Armies: Warriors of Chaos (2008)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (1995)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (2000)
Warhammer Armies: The Empire (2011)
Warhammer Armies: Dwarves (2005)
Gotrek and Felix: Beastslayer (2001)
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Realms of Sorcery (2005)
The History of Bernhart the Brave (a short story from Inferno! magazine) (pdf)
Warhammer: Heirs of Sigmar (2005)
The Empire at War (2006)
The Empire. Uniforms and heraldry (2008)
Warhammer Rulebook 8th Edition (2009)
Forge World rules for Angkor, the Chaos War Mammoth (pdf)
There are other books, such as newer versions of the Warhammer Armies, but they only repeat exactly the same text of older versions.
I would suggest including the following
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: Realm of the Ice Queen.
Warhammer Armies: Kislev.
Warhammer: Storm of Chaos.
Not sure of the dates, but around 2006/2007, around 2002 and around 2002.
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Thank you Oxycutor, i'll try to get the Ice Queen book.
I've consulted the other two, but the information within is scarce. Sadly, the Kislev book is really small.
On the other hand, I will list you what special characters we'll include and what units we cannot from the army book. If you see something missing, please note it!
Chaos side
Characters
Asavar Kul
Engra deathsword
Kholek Suneater
Angkor and Tarok
Arbaal the Undifeated
Vanir the Reaper
Scyla Anfingrimm
Not allowed
Infernal cannon
Empire side
Characters
Magnus the Pious
Teclis
Finreir
Yrtle
Great Teogonist (does anyone know his name??)
Ar Ulrik Kriestov
Zar Alexander (or Alexis)
High King Alriksson
Volans
Frederik von Tarnus
Peter Lazlo
Not allowed
Luminarc
Huracanum
human archmages
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Rogers Kul,
Are you guys writing rules for the characters that don't have rules?
The 4th edition Empire book had rules for Magnus the Pious, which were really cool. He refused to bear a magic item until he became Emperor.
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Not allowed
Luminarc
Huracanum
human archmages
Technically there would also be no Reiksguard and arguably no Helstrom Rockets either
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Rogers Kul,
Are you guys writing rules for the characters that don't have rules?
The 4th edition Empire book had rules for Magnus the Pious, which were really cool. He refused to bear a magic item until he became Emperor.
We have an especific post on the 9th Age forum to make rules for them: http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?thread/7215-the-battle-of-the-gates-of-kislev/
And yes, I got the Empire Army book for 4th edition. But I don't like his rules at all... I imagine Magnus more like Sigmar priest with inspirational leadership and tactical skills more than a mighty warrior. We are still discussing these matters in the group!
Not allowed
Luminarc
Huracanum
human archmages
Technically there would also be no Reiksguard and arguably no Helstrom Rockets either
Really?!?! It's not the first time that I read in a forum that Helstrom rockets are more modern, but I didn't found the offcial source, where did you find this information? But what surprise me more is concerning Reiskguard! When did it appear then?
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The Reiksguard in their current format were commissioned by Emperor Wilhelm III sometime after his ascension in 2429. The Reikland certainly had Knightly Orders representing its Elector, the Reikland Guard of the era of the Vampire Wars or the Reiksknecht during the late first millennium.
The Helstorm is considered newer by the way it is presented in the fluff. since it's appellation comes from the Elector of Middenland, 7th generic and in the 8th the current sitting Elector. It could have been nameless for hundreds of years or had another nickname but the presentation suggests it would probably be more recent.
Also repeating weapons from the College of Engineers would have only been available to the Elector of Reikland's personal troops during the Great War as well. A few may have slipped into the service of other Electors but certainly no other province would field Outriders.
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Here is my take on Magnus...
Magnus the Pious
M WS BS S T W I A LD
Magnus the Pious 4 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10
Steel (Warhorse) 8 3 0 4 3 1 3 1 6
Magnus the Pious may be included in any army of the Empire. His points cost counts against the army’s Lords allowance.
Points: 300
Troop Type: Cavalry (Special Character, Warrior Priest).
Equipment: Hand weapon, shield, full plate armour and barding.
Special Rules: Hold the Line!, Divine Power, Righteous Fury, Battle Prayers, Stubborn.
Halo of the God-King: A devout and humble nobleman wholly dedicated to the Cult of Sigmar, Magnus of Nuln rose to denounce the Chaos Hordes of Asavar Kul. It was Magnus whose promise of hope pulled the Empire from the depths of despair; and it was Magnus who united the full military might of the Empire to march upon the enemy of mankind. With his unyielding faith in Sigmar, Magnus the Pious radiates with the aura and courage of the God-King himself as he leads the Men of the Empire into battle.
Magnus the Pious has a 4+ ward save and a Magic Resistance (3). In addition, all of Magnus’s attacks count as being magical attacks.
Heir to the Imperial Throne: After defeating the tumultuous Chaos invasion of the Everchosen – Asavar Kul during the historic events known as the Great War Against Chaos, it was by demand of the citizens of the Empire that Magnus ascend to the Imperial Throne. Magnus had emerged as the savor of the Empire in its darkest hour, and so it would be that Emperor Magnus would usher the Empire into a great age of prosperity.
If Magnus is included in your army, he must be the army General. This means Karl Franz and Magnus the Pious may not be included in the same army. In addition, Magnus’s Inspiring Presence special rule has a range of 18”.
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Great discussion!
Regarding the Reiksguard I seem to recall that there are contradictory sources on its origin. We had a discussion on this forum some time ago but I was unable to dig it up. In any case, even if you don't call them Reiksguard, I think some form of elite knights with Reiksguard rules are called for. Magnus deserves a stubborn bodyguard!
Not having the Rocket Battery will work to your advantage though :-P
I would consider making Volans and von Tarnus Lv2 but all other hedge wizards only Lv1.
The inferno magazine article has a bunch more names for heroes and units. Consider using the ones that don't contradict the newer version, e.g. Haszteech, Chaos champion, charged in at the head of his dark knights or Aylmar Benjakson’s band of Dwarfish Longbeards, from Karaz-A-Karak, help defend the city.
There is a little blurp in the Ogre Kingdom book about tribes fighting on both sides in the war so they could also be there at the final battle (but I think I recall that the Ironblaster wasn't invented yet if you look at the timeline). So if you run into a crunch painting-wise and someone around you had painted ogres sitting on a shelf...
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Thank you all!
KevinC: this is what I thinking about. Not so powerful in combat skills but blessed by Sigmar, stubborn and large range for Inspiring presence (well this is not really much in a 7 meters long table, but this is better than anything... :icon_biggrin:)
I would consider making Volans and von Tarnus Lv2 but all other hedge wizards only Lv1.
That's exactly what we are planning to do. And only one level 1 mage for each lore.
There is a little blurp in the Ogre Kingdom book about tribes fighting on both sides in the war so they could also be there at the final battle (but I think I recall that the Ironblaster wasn't invented yet if you look at the timeline). So if you run into a crunch painting-wise and someone around you had painted ogres sitting on a shelf...
This means... me!! All right, I'm going to review my ogre's Army Book.
Naitsabes and S.O.F.: this is forum is what I was searching for... a pool of wisdom. Thank you very much for your explanations. We will try to make our Magnus army as "real" as posible. I am waiting for the intervention of my brother-in-arms, Pep, in this discussion; he is a more experienced empire general than me.
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Looks like excellence to me! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
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There is a little blurp in the Ogre Kingdom book about tribes fighting on both sides in the war so they could also be there at the final battle (but I think I recall that the Ironblaster wasn't invented yet if you look at the timeline). So if you run into a crunch painting-wise and someone around you had painted ogres sitting on a shelf...
I found a short reference in the last Ogre Kingdoms army book where, in fact, claims that some ogre tribes took part in the war. In both sides... This could add some good stuff in both armies, and I have and collection of 6.000+ points of painted ogres. But I don't want to mix a lot of extraempire or extrachaos armies in the battle... so, we could add one or two regiments per side: bull ogres, ironguts or maneaters, but nothing more.
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Well, the ogres most likely to be fighting in the battle would be maneaters. Ironguts can easily double as maneaters with great weapons, and characters tend to fit in well too. A giant unit of ogre maneaters on one side or the other?
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Hmmm... clearly a big unit of ogres could be more suitable than 2 o 3 smaller. Yes, I like it. There are 8 maneaters in my ogre collection and I think the other chaos player has some of theme too. We could fit maneaters in the empire army and ironguts (mine, are chaos style) with chaos.
By the way, last friday finally arrives our order from Tabletop World. It's definitely awesome!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MfoGEL6AP0U/Vtqpt5Flg0I/AAAAAAAADd0/vNmnTQInhgw/s1600/DSC_1399.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qJkiadOYfY8/VtqrhowTxDI/AAAAAAAADek/KsAc23jjPl0/s1600/DSC_1407.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2U3jL0Sb94c/VtqrhZiRwpI/AAAAAAAADec/bXEdsq8fzls/s1600/DSC_1409.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f6dNhyYH-so/VtqrlYq6O9I/AAAAAAAADes/kTZvmZ2QGj4/s1600/DSC_1413.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tY_PQaos7OM/VtyIN8hAjFI/AAAAAAAADfk/neCA-51afRk/s1600/DSC_1423.jpg)
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Those Tabletop World buildings are awesome. I was drooling on their Christmas bundle, but couldn't afford any of it.
This whole battle project is megalomaniac in the best possible way. :smile2:
-Z
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What company sells those sweet sweet buildings?
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I'm really looking forward to watching this develop. Great idea, and epic scope. Those Tabletop World buildings are great.
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Following, this looks like it's going to be epic.
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What company sells those sweet sweet buildings?
As 023 said, they are from Tabletop World ( http://www.tabletop-world.com/ ). Take a look on them and fell in love forever.
I am glad you're enjoying with this project. That's the idea!
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Fantastic project, look forward to progress
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A friend of mine and I tried a much scaled down version of the battle back in the 90s with 5th edition rules. It wasn't very satisfying to run the Empire/Kislev alliance with those rules.
I am quite interested in your current project!
:::cheers:::
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Thank you Red Shift and Von Kurst.
Yes, clearly warhammer rules have changed a lot since 5th edition. And also miniatures points! Now they cost half their ancient price.
Have you got any pics of that battle?
Soon I will upload some pics of our first imperial units recently painted. But I am not sure if it's better to fit it here or to create another post in the "Brush and Pallette" forum. May be the second choice would be more appropiate.
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Go for a thread in B&P. And, we don't mind seeing a few pictures of the chaos side either.
It'll also be a good way to remind some people whenever your blogspot thing got updated. You know, the ones that are technically challenged and can't figure out how to sign up for update notifications. :engel:
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Your wishes, my orders, Naitsabes! :::cheers:::
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51466.0.html
I'm not sure how to allow people to receive update notificatios from the blog, sorry. :icon_neutral:
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Have you got any pics of that battle?
No. Never even thought of such things back then.
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Haha... yeah, different times then... :icon_wink:
Anyway, I am sure that was an awesome day. And that's what matters.
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Hi all,
I'm Roger's brother-in-arms organising this battle. I have a few issues which I made a note a month ago, but couldn't publish before because of this forum registration process... finally! I got registered :-D
And many thanks mates, your contribution is so appreciated!
The Reiksguard in their current format were commissioned by Emperor Wilhelm III sometime after his ascension in 2429. The Reikland certainly had Knightly Orders representing its Elector, the Reikland Guard of the era of the Vampire Wars or the Reiksknecht during the late first millennium.
The Helstorm is considered newer by the way it is presented in the fluff. since it's appellation comes from the Elector of Middenland, 7th generic and in the 8th the current sitting Elector. It could have been nameless for hundreds of years or had another nickname but the presentation suggests it would probably be more recent.
Also repeating weapons from the College of Engineers would have only been available to the Elector of Reikland's personal troops during the Great War as well. A few may have slipped into the service of other Electors but certainly no other province would field Outriders.
Regarding the Reiksguard I seem to recall that there are contradictory sources on its origin. We had a discussion on this forum some time ago but I was unable to dig it up. In any case, even if you don't call them Reiksguard, I think some form of elite knights with Reiksguard rules are called for. Magnus deserves a stubborn bodyguard!
Interesting facts I haven’t read before! Do you remember the source where it appears? I want to expand the dialogue introducing a few questions, any help will be appreciated!
Reiksguard: Our plans are to deploy two regiments of this troops (mounted and on foot respectively). As you said, they were not a Reiksguard but a Reikland Elector’s Guard. They were a knightly order? It would be interesting to know the exactly name, and the Grand Master who commanded it then.
Engineers and repeating guns: Is there background that assures a concentration of the engineers on Reikland before the war? Really it’s not a problem as we only will play an outriders unit and they are from a Reikland contingent.
The College of Engineering and the Imperial Gunnery School were created after the war by Magnus. According Lexicanum, Leonardo da Miragliano was its founder and first Chieft Engineer. May also we include him in the battle?
Then I assume there are not historical contradictions on include other engineer stuff:
Steam Tank: Leonardo’s main creation. The heraldry of the tanks can correspond to a province or are only releated to the engineers?
War Wagon: Thinking about not being mounted by engineers but handgunners. Same question about the colours.
Hellblaster: Non found an historical reference further that was an engineer Von Meinkopt’s invention
Hochland Long Rifle: Reliable source on Mordheim background appearece, centuries before. I imagine that a veteran shooter who has contacts and money could get it on that era.
Helmstorm Rocket Battery: I guess we can manage to justify its appearance as a bizarre war machine, even not enrolled on the empire army but from a mercenary contingent. There will be an appreciable presence of Dogs of War on the Magnus side - approximately 150 infantry ones, regiments of light and heavy cavalry, and galloper guns. Also we will field a few Halflings and hot pots as part of the Averland troops, and ogres as Rogers Kul mentioned.
The inferno magazine article has a bunch more names for heroes and units. Consider using the ones that don't contradict the newer version, e.g. Haszteech, Chaos champion, charged in at the head of his dark knights or Aylmar Benjakson’s band of Dwarfish Longbeards, from Karaz-A-Karak, help defend the city.
Do you remember the Inferno’s issue where the Great War was mentioned? May it’s a long shot but it would be superb to get any reference to the contemporaries Elector Counts and the Magnus’s Battle Standard Bearer. We plan to organize the empire army on contigents from as many provinces and City States as we be able, If we know more details it would be exciting.
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Reiksguard: Our plans are to deploy two regiments of this troops (mounted and on foot respectively). As you said, they were not a Reiksguard but a Reikland Elector’s Guard. They were a knightly order? It would be interesting to know the exactly name, and the Grand Master who commanded it then.
Being that the Reikland Electors personal cavalry were known as the Reikland Guard at the time of Hel Fenn (mid 2100's) it is probably the suitable name to use for such a unit at the time of the Great War.
Engineers and repeating guns: Is there background that assures a concentration of the engineers on Reikland before the war? Really it’s not a problem as we only will play an outriders unit and they are from a Reikland contingent.
The College of Engineering and the Imperial Gunnery School were created after the war by Magnus. According Lexicanum, Leonardo da Miragliano was its founder and first Chieft Engineer. May also we include him in the battle?
The Engineers College in Altdorf was founded during the early stages of the Vampire Wars with the Count of the Reikland as its patron and Leonardo as its first head engineer and the Imperial Gunnery School of Nuln founded in the early 2200's by the Count of Wissenland, then sitting presumably as the Sigmarite backed 'Emperor'. Dates for both of these can be contradicted quite often and it doesn't help that many GW fluff writers confuse the two separate chartered entities as a single one. These as correct a dates as I believe are available.
Thus many of the fancy war engines and guns of the Engineers College would not have gone far from the Reikland by the time of the Great War. Cannons however would be found in the armies of all the Electors as though Nuln became the largest producer of artillery in the post war era most rival Emperor maintained their own arsenals producing pieces from them. Nuln was only the marked exception in that it was made with the blessing of the Dwarf Engineers Guild:
From my Guide to the Empire (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,34419.msg526244.html#msg526244)
It was only in the twenty-second century in which the first combination of foundry and gunner school was opened in Nuln. The preexisting arms industry in Nuln along with its large Dwarf population made it the ideal site for such a venture. The arrangement was further solidified through a substantial donation to the Dwarven Engineers Guild, which up until this point had clamored for redress at the illegal Imperial ‘reproduction’ of Dwarven technology. The Count of Wissenland, at the time acting as the ‘Sigmarite’ Emperor, nearly bankrupted the state in order to pay for the enormous costs of expanding Nuln’s foundries, building the School’s facilities, and paying the hefty sum demanded by the Dwarfs but once paid for, the financiers of the venture reaped profits often in excess of three times they had invested in a little over a decade.
Steam Tank: Leonardo’s main creation. The heraldry of the tanks can correspond to a province or are only releated to the engineers?
I do believe if you can track down the old Steam Tank Journal deal, it was part of the GW website that might be recovered via Wayback machine, several Steam Tanks had the Great War listed as one of their battle honors. They are not tied to provinces though at the time of the Great War would be under the Engineers College in services to the Counts of Reikland.
War Wagon: Thinking about not being mounted by engineers but handgunners. Same question about the colours.
Same as the Steam Tanks above, College/Altdorf/Reikland liveries would be most likely. Though of course as Kislev uses War Wagons still any sort might work if you just are putting handgunners in there. They were really only put as such for old Empire books as the crew were Engineers with experimental weapons.
Hellblaster: Non found an historical reference further that was an engineer Von Meinkopt’s invention
Von Meinkopt was Leonardo's greatest pupil at the Engineers college thus would have lived and died in the 2000's IC. Helblasters would have been in use during the Great War though true ones mainly again in the Reikland/Altdorf forces, similar other mulitbarrel artillery was most likely part of other Electors arsenals.
Hochland Long Rifle: Reliable source on Mordheim background appearece, centuries before. I imagine that a veteran shooter who has contacts and money could get it on that era.
The issue here is that the 'Hochland Longrifle' of the Imperial Engineers is not the Hochland Longrifle of Hochland/Mordheim. The Engineers version is the ridiculously calibered pallisade gun type deal of the minis which by the fluff was inspired by the hunting weapons made in Hochland. As no game rules truly differentiate the two it probably fine to spread out to non-Reikland types.
Helmstorm Rocket Battery: I guess we can manage to justify its appearance as a bizarre war machine, even not enrolled on the empire army but from a mercenary contingent. There will be an appreciable presence of Dogs of War on the Magnus side - approximately 150 infantry ones, regiments of light and heavy cavalry, and galloper guns. Also we will field a few Halflings and hot pots as part of the Averland troops, and ogres as Rogers Kul mentioned.
I loathe the Empire mini for it but have a Nippon Rocket crew myself if I ever choose to field it so as mercenaries is a perfectly reasonable way to include it.
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Hi all,
I'm Roger's brother-in-arms organising this battle. I have a few issues which I made a note a month ago, but couldn't publish before because of this forum registration process... finally! I got registered :-D
And many thanks mates, your contribution is so appreciated!
Do you remember the Inferno’s issue where the Great War was mentioned? May it’s a long shot but it would be superb to get any reference to the contemporaries Elector Counts and the Magnus’s Battle Standard Bearer. We plan to organize the empire army on contigents from as many provinces and City States as we be able, If we know more details it would be exciting.
Welcome on the forum!
Inferno! Magazine #6, The History of Bernhardt the Brave. If you can't get a hold of it, pm me. I don't recall information on Magnus and his army though, it's all from the point of view of the cavalry army that loops up to Praag and back. And, as mentioned it is quite contradictory to more modern sources.
As S.O.F stated the College of Engineer's was founded way before Magnus. I guess it is up to you to decide how far that technology has diffused through the Empire by 2300. But, I think a 'regular' war wagon with handgunners could come from any province, nothing 'high-tech' about it (and not to be confused with the Experimental Weapon platform of the 4th edition book)
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Being that the Reikland Electors personal cavalry were known as the Reikland Guard at the time of Hel Fenn (mid 2100's) it is probably the suitable name to use for such a unit at the time of the Great War.
Then Reikland Guad, sounds good! I will make an appropriate leader for the mounted ones (also the Grand Master's rules would be suitable).
Your Guide to the Empire is absolutely stunning! Then I was mistaken about Leonardo. Many thanks for all the explanations, all the quotes about the experimental weapons, artillery and dates are very appreciable, I consider myself a veteran Empire general but there are that kind of details that I've never known until now.
Inferno! Magazine #6, The History of Bernhardt the Brave. If you can't get a hold of it, pm me. I don't recall information on Magnus and his army though, it's all from the point of view of the cavalry army that loops up to Praag and back. And, as mentioned it is quite contradictory to more modern sources.
As S.O.F stated the College of Engineer's was founded way before Magnus. I guess it is up to you to decide how far that technology has diffused through the Empire by 2300. But, I think a 'regular' war wagon with handgunners could come from any province, nothing 'high-tech' about it (and not to be confused with the Experimental Weapon platform of the 4th edition book)
I’ve get the Inferno! #6, quite interesting story, graphics and the style. For now we own only one war wagon but we plan to deploy another, I suppose we'll be carrying handgunners there!
Thank you again!
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Hi generals,
I'm proud to present you the trailer I've made just to maintain our hype up for the battle. Hope you like it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMckUQSRVH4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMckUQSRVH4&feature=youtu.be)
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cool
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I so love this. Any chance you could go into you first post and put the link to your painting blog.
In the distant past and I can't find mine, there was a GW supplement called Warhammer Characters. That my have some of the older ones.
And just as some more encouragement. Another world record. :biggriin:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/167052-Battle-of-Zama-Depicted-in-26-000-Figure-Playmobil-Diorama#&gid=gallery_6108&pid=1
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Of course it would be Zama. Either that or Cannae I guess.
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I so love this. Any chance you could go into you first post and put the link to your painting blog.
In the distant past and I can't find mine, there was a GW supplement called Warhammer Characters. That my have some of the older ones.
Done!
Really? I never heard about it! I know about the supplement Warhammer Armies: Champions of Chaos; may be you refer to it? In that case, we got it!
Of course it would be Zama. Either that or Cannae I guess.
I saw an article some moths (a year?) ago about that collection. But I never liked playmobil; I played Lego.
And, for my personal feelings and academic matters, I prefer Cannas than Zama :icon_wink:
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And, for my personal feelings and academic matters, I prefer Cannas than Zama :icon_wink:
Same. Zama was forced, with not ideal troops. He was set up to lose at Zama.
I get that Scipio was brilliant, but he was young and able to learn the lessons Hannibal put out in front of him. Without Hannibal, there would be no Scipio. And Scipio suffered in the same way Hannibal did by the city he servied.
Hannibal he was left to lose in Rome because the Carthaginean Republic did not want Hannibal to return as the conquering hero and rule for life due to his popularity. Interesting that Caesar later went on to attempt the same in Rome, with some success (dagger in back being the downside).
Interesting how right Thucydides was.
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I would be very disappointed if you didn't play this at least once during the event :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75zmIj_4LFQ
;)
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This remind me of why I loved the old Warhammer world so much : it was full of badasses from our real history, in situations where they got to fight against real monsters.
Seriously, read the lyrics of the song, and tell me that it wouldn't fit perfectly Warhammer Old World with maybe one or two worlds changed :
When the Winged Hussars arrive
A cry for help in time of need await relief from Holy League
60 days of siege outnumbered and weak
Sent a message to the sky wounded soldiers left to die
Will they hold the wall or will the city fall
Dedication
Dedication
They're outnumbered 15 to one
And the battle's begun
And the Winged Hussars arrive
Coming down the mountainside
Let the Winged Hussars arrive
Coming down they turn the tide
As the days are passing by and as the dead are piling high
No escape and no salvation
Trenches to explosive halls are buried deep beneath the walls
Plant the charges there and watch the city fear
Desperation
Desperation
It's a desperate race against the mine
And a race against time
And the Winged Hussars arrive
Coming down the mountainside
Let the Winged Hussars arrive
Coming down they turn the tide
Cannonballs are coming down from the sky
Janissaries are you ready to die
We will seek our vengeance eye for an eye
You'll be stopped upon the steps of our gate
On this field you're only facing our hate
But back home the sultan's sealing your fate
We remember
In September
That's the night Vienna was freed
We made the enemies bleed
And the Winged Hussars arrived!
(Storm clouds fire and steel
Death from above made the enemy kneel)
Coming down the mountainside
(Fighting power and grace
Death from above it's an army of wings)
Then the Winged Hussars arrived
(Storm clouds fire and steel
Death from above made the enemy kneel)
Coming down they turned the tide
(Fighting power and grace
Death from above it's an army of wings) [X2]
We remember
In September
When the Winged Hussars arrived
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Gotta love sabaton! Our historical heavy metal crusade! Lots of great videos out there.
I really like Uprising (Warsaw uprising in 1944)
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Of couuuuuuuurse!! we will!! :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:
Sabaton is one of the favourite groups for, at least, two of us!
In fact, we are working now on kislevites. Within two days I hope to upload some pics about them, so stay tuned to our post in "The brush and the palette"
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Hey comrades,
I know many of you follow the topic on "the Brush and Palette" ( http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=51466.725 (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=51466.725) ) but for those who don't, let me announce this. I think is more appropiate to say it also here:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yScyXZnw7fI/WxBDZwS2QRI/AAAAAAAALQ0/R86baKi1tJYSjEC8fjYyzEcNPrtBYUTcwCLcBGAs/s1600/15%2Bdays%2Bleft.jpg)
Will be impossible to cover the entire event on streaming, but I will make some online connections via Instagram on the my own account rogers_miniatures
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That's pretty awesome.
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Oh yes, I'm waiting for this! :blush:
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Apologies for the threadomancy, but did this ever happen...?
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Oh man, you need to check out the glorious painting thread for it.
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=51466.750
There's parts of it there, and the links to the rest of it as well.
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Found this today, and I recall seeing it at the time, although it's so good ... worth another look! :biggriin: :ph34r: