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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / My Demigryph unit build
« Last post by Voltan Ignatio on Today at 05:16:03 PM »
Is it the best? Who knows, you decide:
4x Demigryph Knights (200mm frontage, max attacks against unit 100mm wide+)
Preceptor w. Silver Horn (super useful to re-roll swiftstride)
Banner bearer w. Banner of Duty (cant always rely on Ld 8 for rallying)
Lances and Shields (2+ to protect the demi's as they're the real killing power here)
Enough attacks to kill (or severely maul) most big things, have slain Cygors, Giants, Dragons etc.
291pts (or 298pts with musician, although I rarely find it needed and often need yhe pts elsewhere)
Support: BSB on Pegasus if I have one, or magic spells if relevant.
Stubborn core knights baiting things into a flank charge is useful.

I think this is the optimal size for killing power and durability. It is one of my 2 main combat blocks (the other usually veteran halberdiers with griffon standard)
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Encouraging Event
« Last post by Voltan Ignatio on Today at 04:42:30 PM »
I watched it too. Good to see Empire getting some eyes on it.
On lists, im still in testing, but less shooting and infantry than Mordian took with more Cav and DG's with very smart play could work v. Well
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The Battleground / Re: Warm Ale and Mud - Part One
« Last post by Mike Stockin on Today at 03:04:31 PM »
I have added a comments form to my Warm Ale and Mud page, not sure how effective it is, but feel free to use it if the desire takes you.

https://angelbarracks.co.uk/part1.html
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Terror in Talabheim
« Last post by Minsc on Today at 02:59:47 PM »
My understanding of Fear and Terror is that they work as they always have. That a creature that causes Fear only suffers Fear from a creature that causes Terror.

However, it has been pointed out in another venue that there is nothing in the rules that explicitly makes units that cause Fear immune to Terror.

How about the part in the rules that say that models with Fear instead Fear models that cause Terror? Seems clear enough for my gaminggroup at least.

They arent immune to Terror but they treat it as Fear, so theres no need to explicitly say that they are inmune terror because it would be irrelevant.

Honestly, given how incredibly shit of a rule Fear is in general, its  interraction with Terror is the best part of having it.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Terror in Talabheim
« Last post by Dazgrim on Today at 01:18:51 PM »
My understanding of Fear and Terror is that they work as they always have. That a creature that causes Fear only suffers Fear from a creature that causes Terror.

However, it has been pointed out in another venue that there is nothing in the rules that explicitly makes units that cause Fear immune to Terror. The argument was thus advanced that a dragon, for example would cause both Fear and Terror in a unit of DGK.

What do people think?

Quote
Terror
There are creatures so fierce that their mere appearance can cause
the bravest to flee.
Models with this special rule cause Terror. Models that cause Terror also cause Fear, as described on page 168:
  • When a unit that causes Terror declares a charge, the charge target must immediately make a Leadership test. If this test is failed, it must Flee. If this test is passed, it can declare its charge reaction normally.
  • If the winning side of a combat includes one or more units that cause Terror, each unit that belongs to the losing side must apply a -1 modifier to its Leadership characteristic when making its Break test. 
Note that if a charged unit cannot choose to Flee, it does not make
this Leadership test.
Models with the Fear special rule Fear models that cause Terror. Models that cause Terror are immune to Terror. A unit that does not cause Terror does not become immune to Terror when joined by a character that does.

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I understand your point of view but I am trying to understand why is so, because I cannot find anything RAW that clearly points in that direction.

According to my reading, in the section MODEL PROFILES, it is pretty clear that the models are the ones that get the rules (subsection "Special rules") and when they join together the unit applies the rules from the models (so the "unit" itself does not have any special rule). This is implied in the section "Unit size" and in the way is written Characters & Formations.

On the other hand, reviewing how is written "Master of Battle" special rule implies that units and character are different entities and units can also get rules. Or it is just a shortcut for "all other models in the unit".

Master of Battle: If this model joins a unit of Empire Knights, Inner Circle Knights or Demigryph Knights, that unit will gain the Immune to Psychology special rule. Should this model leave a unit it has joined for any reason, that unit loses this special rule.

So, IMHO  when we are adding more models to a unit, they add their rules to the unit (when we are creating the army list, they are actually copies of the same special rules except for characters). That's why we also get some special rules written "all models in the unit" or "majority of models in the unit".

IMHO and I guess RAW a unit has a rule when any of the models has the rule. Therefore, a model with Frenzy, Hatred (X), Immune to Psychology or Stubborn joining a regimental unit with dettachments should confer those special rules onto its detachments whilst they are within 3" of it

Also RAW, although the Witch Hunter's Immune to Psychology is not extended to the other regimental unit's models, when we check the "majority of the models" condition is not fullfilled and the unit ignores "automatically passes any Fear, Panic or Terror tests" and also can flee as a charge reaction. However the unit still has the special rule.

So, in one scenario, if a character is a separate entity when joins a unit (as implied by Master of Battle), then we can only provide the magic items (and the sweet additional special rules) to a champion or standard bearer to add the rules to the Regimental Units and then extend it to the dettachments using the Dettachment special rules.

In the other scenario, if a character becomes part of the unit when joins it, his special rules are added to the unit special rules (although they may not be applicable because of the "majority of the models" restrictions).

I also checked the FAQ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/ScGm8K4WG9pa9sGv.pdf ) and the change to the weapon only says:
Page 339 – Berserker Blade
Add the following note to the weapon profile:
‘Notes: The wielder of the Berserker Blade is Frenzied.

So it still gets the Frenzy rule.

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I don't think the unit gets frenzy though only the wielder of the blade.

Same, I wouldn't consider "the unit" as frenzied just because one guy in it is frenzied.

What happens if you give it to a unit champion though? Does the champion, and by virtue the unit, have to charge?
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I think it was specifically addressed in the FAQ re the bezerker blade to clarify that the unit does not get frenzy, only the model with the blade
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I don't think the unit gets frenzy though only the wielder of the blade.

Same, I wouldn't consider "the unit" as frenzied just because one guy in it is frenzied.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Results from a tournament.
« Last post by Minsc on Today at 11:23:57 AM »
You can take priest of Ulric with gw knights. The reroll 6 for enemy prayer adds a little to their survivability which the Demi's can't get.

True, but if your opponent hits you on 4+ that prayer is just the same as having -0,5 to hit on them (even worse if they hit on 3+) + it only works 58% of the time + the priest costs more than than an extra DGK would.

I get trying to get subpar units to work, but we truly have become masters of polishing turds on this forum.  :icon_razz:
A direct consequence of our army being filled with them I suppose...
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