Topic: Tomb King on Necrolith Bone Dragon: Who the Hell can slay it in The Empire?

[theophanes]

Hi, Gents!

Returning slowly to TOW. First battle against Khemri. Tomb King on Necrolith Bone Dragon: is it immortal?

Thank you!

[commandant]

Its a tomb kings so flaming nonsense is going to be good but what is the load out.

[Minsc]

Not really, it's probably one of the easier dragons to kill, especially with the new FAQ*
(*If the TK-players wants the benefits of Armour of Ages now he's gonna have to use the Kings 6+ light armour save instead of the dragons 4+).

Without Armour of Ages it will at best have a 4+/5++/5+++ and with it will at best have a 5+/5++/5++ against shooting and 6+/5++/5+++ in close combat.

-1 to hit doesn't affect cannons or spells, and it's flammable to boot, so I'd try kill it with cannons and fire magic.
A unit of IC Knights or Demigryphs with the Flamming Banner should work as well.
Wich Hunters with the ability that grants hatred UD and Flaming to their unit seems like a good choice as well.

[commandant]

4+/5++/5+++ seems likely to die to cannon shots.   Against a cannon it would only have 5++/5++ and if there is some way to make a cannon flaming then it is only 5++ save.   I don't know if there is a way to make a cannon flaming.

BS shooting should be quite good.   Sure its -1 to hit but it is also a large target (isn't it) so +1 to hit.   A witch hunter in a unit of BS shooting (say outriders) to give them flaming attacks should be good.

Flaming attacks also do more damage because of its dry as dust rule

[Minsc]

BS shooting should be quite good.   Sure its -1 to hit but it is also a large target (isn't it) so +1 to hit.   A witch hunter in a unit of BS shooting (say outriders) to give them flaming attacks should be good.

Large Target doesn't grant +1 to hit in TOW. It only negates cover from (iirc) intervening models, making you unable to hide, and increases the command radius of generals and BSB's.

[commandant]

Right you are.

[Skyros]

What's the loadout? It's actually one of the easier ones to kill, especially after the FAQ... UNLESS...it's using the blade of antarhak or whatever it's called. (From the arcane journal that heals them every time they deal a wound)

But it's flammable, has pretty low AS generally, especially after the nerf to bedazzling helm and armor of ages in the FAQ. Usually only rocking a 5 up regen and 5 up ward save

[sedobren]

It received a nerf in the latest faq, since the armor that forced to reroll wound rolls now has to be used and is a light armor, but that's far from saying that they are weak. After all rerolling wound rolls of 2 is not that terrible, like when a cannon shoots at it.

The fact is the prince could easily take the armour of meteoric iron, the relic of the desert sun  and a talisman (for s grand total of 75 pts) and always have a 5+/5++/5+++, or the armor of destiny (with a shield) plus the relic for a 4+/4++/5+++. So even with a cannon, in the first case it has a 70% chance of saving the shot, in the second case i think it's around 66%.

Now i have surprisingly noted that my cannons are able to last most of the game, often being some of the last units to die if i lose,  but that's because generally there are fewer snd fewer targets starting from turn 2. Ideally the khemri olayer will have the dragon engaged somewhere on turn 2, possible free again if he wins in his combat phase, so usually i manage to get at best 2-3 turns of cannon shooting on them (so let's say 6 shots, and I'm being generous). Generally at least one is a mishap, so let's say 5 shots, with 2/3 of them being saved that's like, with the average of 3 wounds inflicted is like 5 wounds out of 9. And getting three full turns of shooting vs the dragon is a big if.

Combat resolution might be a solution against other dragons, but the khemris are undead so they do not flee, they lose additional wounds and give ground. You might try a big unit (like 24) of spearman with bsb, griffon banner and war banner. That's cr8 for starters, you could use a detachement for an additional 1 but the dragon might just charge it so that's not good. You throw a challenge with the champion, he has to accepts with the dragon, so at best he will inflict 5 wounds and lose the fight by 2. He loses no wounds in this case but he will Give Ground. You restrain your guys (they are veterans so you should make it) and in your turn you will try and shoot the hell out of it.
With a little bit of magical support (like a couple of demonology spells, or a 5+ wards, wither from battle magic of from elementalism) you coule maybe even inflict a wound or two, so it might even retreat and lose one or two wounds. If you want to do this twice you are going to need an additional character. Just because he might be a witch hunter that chooses undead, in the off chance the other player does not put the relic on the dragon.

Now the dragon ha 5 attacks, d6 stomp so vs veterans that you are using (otherwise no magic banner on them) it hits on 4s, then you have 3.5 hits, plus stomps that's 7 hits, or a little less than 5 dead state troopers. The rest is in the hands of the rider, but with a little bit of magical support

[theophanes]

Sorry for the delay in answering. Second game. I fielded 2 great cannons and a steam tank, all firing against boney drag.with the FAQ, of course.
Only one wound until the monster hit the lines and extermine every knight and other troops in front of it. you anly can fir one turn. next the dragon is engaged

[Sir Falo]

That sounds a little unlucky with 1 wound. Like the Minsc, Sedobren and the others say sthere are combos and tactics that hurt it.

If he moves up aggressively a Helblaster with engineer and Curse of Years (-1T and Move helps) will hurt him. Curse of years helps if you use the Outriders with Ulric priest for extra wounds to, but thats not that reliable. Curse of years do only have a 15" ragne to, so you have to work to get it in. If he gets to you challages with stubborn knights. Then set upp a counter charge (with someting hard, like the tank or Demigryphs) when the knights fall back in good order can work. IC knights high Ld can make them quite good at soaking a dragon for a time.

[Clymer]

I haven't faced the bone dragon yet, but have faced the High Elf ghost dragon a few times now. My advice: ignore it as much as you can. It's a big points sink and leaves a lot of the rest their army vulnerable. While pretty much impossible to kill, their damage output is not extreme, and can be worked around. But then you go kill the rest of their army.

[drweir4]

The answer for big unkillable monsters for any army who can take it is illusion

You need to have 2 mobile lv4 wizards (usually only 1 with illusion) and then column of crystal or better miasmic mirage and about 50% of the time you can stop it from doing anything. The other 50% of the turns you need to be feeding it chaff so that after 6 turns their 500 point model has killed about 150 points if your army while you aim to kill everything else they have to win

But you should not put anything offensive into it because almost all the dragon lords are functionally impossible to kill with normal stuff

[Warlord]

That is 100% my plan for a L4 illusion wizard.
Avoidance and chaff is my strategy against enemy dragons. Magic helps with the avoidance part.
I am not taking Lore familiar, as I assume that 4/6 is decent chances I will get at least one of those spells.... however perhaps I don't want to leave it to chance, and instead take the familiar and get both spells so I have some redundancy in case I roll poorly for casting.

[drweir4]

yeah, i havent tested it enough yet to know if i *have* to take the lore familiar

the other thing i've been trying has been adding a single power scroll so that you have a better chance of getting a crucial miasma off vs the dragon even in the face of things like a puppet

[commandant]

The puppet is difficult.   I am wondering if it is worth taking a flying level 4 with the lore familiar and Illusion to make a large crystal pillar in front of dragons repeatedly.

[Warlord]

The puppet is difficult.   I am wondering if it is worth taking a flying level 4 with the lore familiar and Illusion to make a large crystal pillar in front of dragons repeatedly.

That is pretty much my strat with my wizard lord.

[commandant]

Does it work?

[Warlord]

It all depends on where the dragon is, and where my wizard is, relative to the enemy wizard.
Sometimes the positioning works nicely. But its difficult to do it all game - the dice or enemy dispel don't always allow it.

IMO its one of the best ways we have though.
That said, Mordian Glory's tournament battle rep has me hopeful for artillery again, but depends on the big bad.

However I don't play elves often. Its a Wyvern or a Terrorghiest I am most commonly blocking.

[commandant]

How often does it have to work as well. If you can take dragon or big flying nonsense out of the game for 2 turns then it has likely done its job.

[Skyros]

There isn't a way to give our cannons flaming, is there? TK on dragon is both flammable (no regen) AND dry as dust (flaming attacks do an extra wound on a 4+ roll)

The TK bone dragon typically has armor of ages, which forces you to reroll wounds. And it has -1 to hit in shooting.
However, a cannon, or great cannon, are both wounding the T6 dragon on 2's, so rerolling wounds isn't as big a deal. (Although - that still means only 70% of your shots get past the wounding stage)

Then it has a 5 up ward and 5 up regen. All told I think there is a 30% chance of a cannon getting a wound through onto the dragon assuming it hits. You'll need at least three hits and possibly four. HOWEVER if it had flaming, there's a chance it could die in two hits AND the regen turns off, which would mean only 6 cannon shots at it, which might be feasible in a game if you went first and brought three cannons.

But requiring 12 or so cannon shots at the dragon (assuming a couple will misfire) is simply not going to be happening in a real game, and isn't going to happen in any game if you go second. TK has a phenomenal number of ways to target war machines as well, remember, from ambushers, vanguards, scouts, and flying carrion.

I took the TK bone dragon to a five game tournament this weekend, and the only time he came close to dying was when a 600 point Chaos lord on dragon mulched him with the ogre blade and several gifts from the chaos gods, including extra attack and (crucially) extra STR, putting him at str 8, which meant armor of ages didn't do much. He pushed four damage through (from 2 successful wounds) on the last turn of the game, and I died.

[Warlord]

It really depends which turn. Some key turns, it has let me down. Some key turns, it has worked out.

Like most things magic, its not a guarantee.

[Clymer]

@Warlord, I’m assuming you drop crystal column in front of the dragon to stop it from charging, but can’t it just fly over the column? What am I missing?

[PowerSeries]

No line of sight.  Also isn't the column infinitely tall too?

[Warlord]

Correct. It's to block LOS for charges.
And yes, its a sky-beam column.

[Clymer]

Cool, I’ve found it useful for other applications, I’ll have to give this one a go.