Topic: multiclassing as in D&D

[scoutmaster]

since we generally complain (rightly) about our heroes - a non-standard approach to the subject is needed

grand master (full plate armor, lance, pegasus, wizard hat, power scroll, lore familiar, charmed shield - school of illusion - I choose Spectral Doppelganger spell. 
does anyone have any other ideas

[PowerSeries]

What a muscle wizard.

[Dazgrim]

I'm not sure, is he allowed the lore familiar?

[Athiuen]

From Forces of Fantasy
pg 50

A Grand Master may purchase magic items up to a total of 100 points

From the main rule book:
pg 336

Types Of Magic Item
There are six categories of magic item: magic weapons, magic armour, talismans, magic standards, enchanted items and arcane items.

pg 336

Arcane Items:
Be it a spell book, a scroll, even a wand or staff, these are items carried by Wizards to increase their powers or enhance their knowledge.

pg 343

Arcane Items
Arcane items are items that enhance a Wizard’s magical powers in some fashion. Only Wizards can purchase Arcane Items.

Here we find the first prohibition

pg 342

Wizarding Hat - 45 points
This splendid hat, once the property of a long dead Wizard, is still haunted by their ghost. The wearer is a Level 1 Wizard and knows one randomly generated spell from a Lore of Magic of your choosing. However, the whispers of the ghostly Wizard haunting the hat are often confusing. Therefore, the wearer also becomes subject to the Stupidity special rule.

So yes, the Grand Master wearing the wizarding hat can buy a Lore Familiar. Some might argue that the randomly generated part of the hats description prohibits the use of the familiar but all spells are randomly generated which is what the familiar addresses

pg 343

Lore Familiar - 30 points
By creating a magical homunculus, a Wizard is able to better recall forgotten details of their studies. The owner of a Lore Familiar does not randomly generate their spells. Instead, they may choose which spells they know from their chosen lore (including that lore’s signature spell).

[Athiuen]

Just adding to this:
Spectral Doppleganger requires a 9+ roll, meaning you'll have to roll at least an 8 to make it work (2 dice = 42%)
The Power Scroll helps here, meaning you're more than likely to get it off (84%).

Furthermore this build costs 283 points and does not have magical attacks or multi-wound.

It would be kinda fun to see it modeled though.

[PowerSeries]

This is a full Naruto shadow clone attack.

https://youtu.be/AuRGgUbUdAs?t=485
https://youtu.be/8gutrFRkRow?si=Sj0III9Yf7qT8hDD

But of course with a fancy hat.

[Warlord]

I like this idea.... however its a lot of points for a L1 wizard with stupidity.
Would a Demigryph be better than a Pegasus?

[Athiuen]

Would a Demigryph be better than a Pegasus?

Probably not. I mean the point is to get into combat quickly and use the ability. You'll have more luck doing that on a pegasus which can move further and see 360.

[Minsc]

Would a Demigryph be better than a Pegasus?

Probably not. I mean the point is to get into combat quickly and use the ability. You'll have more luck doing that on a pegasus which can move further and see 360.

Just a sidenote, but assuming he would be on his own, a GM on Demigryph would also see 360*.

Personally while I can enjoy the concept of this GM-build (Wizards Hat on fighty lords is always entertaining), in practice I think good 'ol Ogre Blade + White Cloak would be better in most cases. But then, the point of this topic is DnD-builds so ... *shrug* 

[Warlord]

In practice I think good 'ol Ogre Blade + White Cloak would be better in most cases. But then, the point of this topic is DnD-builds so ... *shrug* 

My thoughts too.

As a sidenote, it disappoints me that most of the time, the common magic items are the best choice instead of army specific items.

[Minsc]

As a sidenote, it disappoints me that most of the time, the common magic items are the best choice instead of army specific items.

Yeah but thats mainly an Empire-thing (unsurprisingly) given our extremely lackluster arsenal of magical items.

My Skaven, Exiles and VC have plenty of fun magic items to use.

[Warlord]

Orcs and Goblins seem ok too.

I am wondering if the FAQ might prohibit the interpretation of Wizard Hat allowing Arcane items:

Q: Can the wearer of the Wizarding Hat cast spells whilst wearing armour?
A: Yes. The wearer of the Wizarding Hat is not actually a Wizard – their magical powers are granted by a haunted hat which is not affected by any armour the model may wear

I realise this is in the context of armour.... however it also says 'not actually a wizard'.

[Dazgrim]

Orcs and Goblins seem ok too.

I am wondering if the FAQ might prohibit the interpretation of Wizard Hat allowing Arcane items:

Q: Can the wearer of the Wizarding Hat cast spells whilst wearing armour?
A: Yes. The wearer of the Wizarding Hat is not actually a Wizard – their magical powers are granted by a haunted hat which is not affected by any armour the model may wear

I realise this is in the context of armour.... however it also says 'not actually a wizard'.

This is what prompted the question, but I didn't have the FAQ to hand to cite.

[Sir Falo]

Yes he is not A Wizard so he cant take Arcane Items becuse of the FAQ. But just take Hammerhand, so It works fine.

[Athiuen]

I think the argument against the use of arcane items based on armour use is silly.
These are two different things.
Furthermore, the point is to have fun, and a wizard hat wearer Grand Master is very fun.

[Sir Falo]

Well if they write that it is what it is. It it says "The wearer of the Wizarding Hat is not actually a Wizard" they are clearly not a Wizard.

But just use hammerhand on him. Its better then Dobbelganger because you can have a hope of getting the spell of. +9 on a lvl 1 is not great but a 7+ Hammerhand is not bad. And if you realy want to try for the Doppelganger, roll and if you dont get it take Glittering Robe. I would take Glittering Robe over Doppelganger anyway, You will have more use of it. But I think battle magic is the way to go. Have taken Wizards hat on IC champion and tried for Oaken shield but most often gotten Hammarhand. Works fine it you can be outside dispel ranges.

[Athiuen]

Well if they write that it is what it is. It it says "The wearer of the Wizarding Hat is not actually a Wizard" they are clearly not a Wizard.

You are, of course, ignoring the context of your quote and the simple writing of the Wizard Hat itself.
You're reading a rule about the consequences of armour and assuming it applies to everything.
In the case of armour, they aren't a "real" wizard so they can wear armour.

The hat rules read simply The wearer is a Level 1 Wizard.
They count as a wizard.
This means they can buy arcane items.
It also means they can wear armour and cast their spell.

[Minsc]

He follows the rules for wizards per the Wizarding Hat ("the wearer is a level 1 wizard") but the character still isn't an actual wizard, its the hat that does the casting, and so the FAQ clarified that wearing armour doesn't prevent the Wizarding Hat from working. It was a good clarification.

RAW the character can buy Arcane Items.
RAI is more unclear, but honestly who cares? It's not like it's a build that's gonna break the meta.

[Athiuen]

the FAQ clarified that wearing armour doesn't prevent the Wizarding Hat from working.

Clearly this was the intent of the FAQ - to allow a character who had to take armour to be able to cast their spell.
Not some convoluted plot to say, without saying, that they are both a Wizard with a spell but they also aren't a Wizard at the same time, even though the item granting them this ability clearly said they were, but they also aren't so they can't claim any benefit.
The point was to remove a negative, not take away a positive - it's just saying that they aren't exactly the same as a wizard character with intrinsic magical ability, therefore armour doesn't matter.

Edit: If it did matter, the item would be worthless on most characters who start with, at minimum, light armour.

[Minsc]

the FAQ clarified that wearing armour doesn't prevent the Wizarding Hat from working.

Clearly this was the intent of the FAQ - to allow a character who had to take armour to be able to cast their spell.

Yes. Without that clarification, Wizarding Hat would be useless on pretty much any character who isn't already a Wizard, since most (but not all) non-wizard characters tend to come with at least light armour by default.

[Warlord]

This means they can buy arcane items.

I don’t think we can assume one way or another based on two conflicting rules.

[commandant]

Not to get into this again but they are not a wizard. They count as a wizard.  Therefore they can wear armour (unlike a wizard) but can't take arcane items (like a wizard)

[Minsc]

Not to get into this again but they are not a wizard. They count as a wizard.  Therefore they can wear armour (unlike a wizard) but can't take arcane items (like a wizard)

No offense, but you need stop making up your own rules...

Wizarding Hats rules say "The wearer is a Level 1 Wizard". Nothing about "count as" or "cast spells as a Level 1 Wizard" just "they are a level 1 Wizard", and as such, they are allowed to buy Arcane items, and make dispell attempts, etc, because that what Wizards are allowed to do.

Then the FAQ clarified that they can still use armour (because of course they can, the item would be mostly useless otherwise) by stating that they "aren't actually wizards". (Is this gonna be the next piece of flavour-text that people are gonna get into arguments about?)

So we have two contradicting statements: "Level 1 Wizard" and "aren't actually a Wizard", but the latter is imo more of a flavour text than a rule - of course that Ogre Tyrant isn't actually a Wizard Hagrid, but he follows all the rules for them thanks to his Wizarding Hat, as far as the game, rules and interactions are concerned.

There's also a seemingly subjective picking-and-choosing of what goes and doesn't in this weird Wizard-hybrid-combo;
- Can they cast spells? Yes, they are a wizard.
- Can they dispell spells? Yes, they are a wizard...?
- Can they wear armour despite being a wizard? Yes, the FAQ clarifies this.
- Can they buy arcane items? Yes, No, Maybe? If No, why aren't they a Wizard in this specific instance but in all the others?

If you say "Yes" to one of the above, you have to say Yes to all of them. If you say No to one of the above, you have to say No to all of them (except the armour one as the FAQ is clear on that part, and of course they can cast spells) - otherwise you are yourself picking and choosing what benefits to get, and thats not how it works.

My suggestion is to don't get riled up about this and sort it out within your own gaminggroup (but honestly, how often will this become an issue?), because this won't get FAQ:ed soon, if ever.

Personally I'm in the "Yes, they can buy Arcane items"-camp (simply because there are less contradictions), but its not a hill I'm willing to die on in a forum debate, because I'll probably never play a fighty character with wizarding hat + arcane item combo to begin with. 

[commandant]

Can they cast spells? No. The hat can cast spells. The same way a captain a ruby ring is not a wizard buy can cast a spell.

[Minsc]

Can they cast spells? No. The hat can cast spells. The same way a captain a ruby ring is not a wizard buy can cast a spell.

The Wizarding Hat says "the wearer is a Level 1 Wizard" with all that entails; casting attempts that can result in a miscast, dispell attmpts and access to arcane items.

The Ruby Ring is a regular bound spell. The Wearer is not a Wizard, cannot make dispell attempts, won't blow up on a miscast, etc.

The items are nothing alike.
If the Wizarding Hats rules said the wearer knows one random bound spell at powerlevel 1 your comparison would make sense, but the Wizarding Hat absolutely does not say that so the comparison doesn't make sense at all.