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Author Topic: The Griffon Formation Battle Reports- (Update 3/19/2013 2500 vs new Slaanish)  (Read 48788 times)

Offline Warwhore

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Well the rules are often anything but logical  :dry:
It's science. You wouldn't understand.

~The Big Diehl

Offline Warwhore

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Also, didn't get a chance this weekend to play any other games :-(  but did get a chance to play a Half-Orc Warrior Monk midget in a Rolemaster Campaign my family started. 

Nice character. Has he perfected the bag tag?
It's science. You wouldn't understand.

~The Big Diehl

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Also, didn't get a chance this weekend to play any other games :-(  but did get a chance to play a Half-Orc Warrior Monk midget in a Rolemaster Campaign my family started. 

Nice character. Has he perfected the bag tag?

Yep.  His specialty is the knees and groin!    :icon_eek:
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: The Griffon Formation Battle Reports- (Update 8/5/2012 2500 vs Dark Elves )
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2013, 11:55:53 PM »
Okay, okay.  I will get off my butt and do one for a battle this weekend.

I started to do one last weekend with a really tough fight with Chaos that I barely won....I will either do one for the re-match or another army I fight.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Quickbeam

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I've noticed you use a stank in all of these so far. Any chance we can see a griffon formation without one?
“An army of principles will penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot.”
― Thomas Paine

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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I've noticed you use a stank in all of these so far. Any chance we can see a griffon formation without one?

Oh man.....that is like going to a public event without your pants on!  I really love that hunk of metal!
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Quickbeam

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I've noticed you use a stank in all of these so far. Any chance we can see a griffon formation without one?

Oh man.....that is like going to a public event without your pants on!  I really love that hunk of metal!
I know I know  :blush: But I don't have one and I kind of want to see how you would play through it without one  :engel:
“An army of principles will penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot.”
― Thomas Paine

JohanK

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Great reports.
I am new to Warhammer and am trying to learn how to win,
and stuff like this is really helpful.  :biggriin:

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Well Q-beam-  you got your wish.

I did a battle with an Inverted Griffon formation without a STank against a new Khorne/Slaanish Chaos list.

It came down right to the end.... I will keep you in suspense as to the winner!   :wink:

BATREP forthcoming!

 :::cheers:::
HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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The Inverted Griffon versus new Slaanish/Khorne Chaos @ 2500


I have had several battles now against the new Chaos.  I like their new book and it has made for some fun, hard-hitting battles.

As per request, I didn’t use my normal list and tweaked out a few things to see how it works out.  The STank is gone, replaced by a unit of 4 Demis.  I added a Captasus (finally bought my first Pegasus a month ago) and changed up magic lores to Light to give it a whirl.

Here is what the lists look like:


The Good Guys:  Winter Storm

48 Teutogen Guard (Greatswords)   FC, Standard of Discipline
       21 Halbediers   
       21 Halbediers
       Arch Lector (Gen) GW, AoMI, Dawnstone
       Captain (BSB)  Enchanted Shield, Luckstone

14 Inner Circle Knights FC, Great Weapons
       Warrior Priest  Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm

11 Archers Musician
       5 Archer Detachment
       5 Archer Deatchment

11 Archers Musician
          Battle Wizard Lord Lvl 4 Light Wizard, Dispel Scroll, Opal Amulet 

4 Demigryph Knights  FC
         
Captasus Lance, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Crown of Command 

My Spells:    Light-  Speed of Light, Net, Banishment, Birona’s Time Warp


The Bad Guys: Rapturous Frenzy

18 Khorne Forsaken 

4 Skullcrushers Standard, Muscian

3 Skullcrushers FC
       Khorne Exalted Hero  (BSB) Sword of Might, Charmed Shied, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon

9 Hellstriders Musician
       Slaanish Chaos Sorceror Lord  (Gen)
       Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, Talis of Preservation, Flaming Breath, Scaly Skin

9 Hellstriders Musician
       Slaanish Exalted Hero  Flail, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone

3x 5 Slaanish Marauder Horsemen Flails, Musician

His spells:     Slaanish-  Hysterical Frenzy, Slicing Shards, Phantasmagoria, Cacophonic Choir


Pre-Deployment

My plan was to create an inverted Griffon supported by my Knights on the flanks.  My thought for the Stubborn Captasus is to use him to bait some frenzy Khorne into some compromising postions…or at the very least hold off something nasty for a turn.

My opponent is used to playing against the Griffon, so while his main blocks are Khorne nasties, he has lots of Slaanish fast cavalry (immune to Panic, Fear/Terror) to clear out my diverters, shield his frenzied troops, and get into my backfield to cause chaos (pun intended!)  The two Hellstriders blocks with characters concerned me up front-  I can’t let them eat up my chaff while they buff themselves up or I will be facing lots of frenzied troops and fast buffed up cav in the mid to late game. 

It should be a good test of the Griffon.


Deployment

We rolled random terrain and random placement (we moved a few pieces around to give the terrain better spacing and have tactical significance)

Nothing spectular as far as terrain-  a couple of buildings, a river and swamp, two hills and an Arcane altar.  Here is how it looks:





As far as deployment, I got to choose the side and picked the side without the building in the center of the deployment zone.  I wanted plenty of space for my Griffon.

Like my original plan, I created the Inverted Griffon in the center with my Knights on the flanks.  My opponent put all his fast cav up on the line and deployed his Khorne blocks behind them.  He vanguarded all his fast cavalry forward 8 inches.  Here is how it looked in the end:





Turn 1 Winter Storm:

Empire got the first turn.

Movement:
 
I moved my Griffon detachments up a bit.  I moved the left Archers into the swamp to get close range shots at the left Hellstriders but 10.5 inches away to still get a stand and shoot on them if they charged me.  Also, I angled them so that an overrun would not endanger my other units.

My Knights moved up slightly on both flanks at angles.





Magic

I rolled a 6 and 4, no channels.

10 PD to 6 DD. 

I cast a 4-dice Net on his Hellstriders with his Sorceror.  He used all his dice to dispel.

Next I cast a boosted Banishment (for the range) on the same unit.  I got a decent roll but he Dispel Scroll’d it.   Magic phase over.

Shooting

My noble archers manage to kill one Hellstrider from each unit.


Turn 1 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

Since I got the first turn, his vanguard units could now charge.

The left Hellstriders declare a charge on my Archers in the swamp.  They stand and shot, killing 2 more ‘Striders.

Marauder Horsemen 1 declare a charge against my left Archer detachment as well.  They stand and shoot, also killing 2.

Otherwise, his Hellstrider with Sorc moves outside my Demigryphs LOS, Marauder Horse block 3 gets in the of the Demis, and all his Khorne blocks move up max distance.

Man, does he have some speed.





Magic:

He rolls double 5s for Winds O Magic.  No channels.

10 PD to 6 DD

He rolls a 5 dice Hysterical Frenzy on his right Skullcrusher block.  I let it go.

He rolls a 5 dice boosted Cacophonic Choir.  He just gets the 24+ he needs.  I dispel scroll it.  Magic phase over.

Combat:

The Hellstriders and Hero killed 6 Archers.  They kill one ‘Strider in return.  Of course they fail they Break test and run 9 inches.  He pursues but only goes 8.

The Archer detachment fairs better-  the Horse kill 4 of the Archers but the lone archer makes his Break test!

Here is what it looks like in the end:





Turn Two:  Winter Storm

Movement:

Not wanting the Skullcrushers to get the charge, I charge them with my GW Knights.  The Captasus charges in as well to protect the flank of the Knights from the Forsaken.

With the Captasus out of the way, my Halb detachment charges the Marauder Horse to help out my poor archer.

The Demis charge the Horse blocking their path.

The fleeing Archers rally.  Otherwise, my support Archers slide to the east to prepare for the arrival of the eastern Hellstriders and to get my Wizard in range for a Banishment on them. 





Magic & Shooting:

Another large dice pool-  I roll a 5 and 4 with two Empire channels.

11 PD to 5 DD.

Again, I start with a 3 dice Net on the Sorc & Hellstriders.  Oops-  IF!  For the miscast, my Wizard and a WP take a wound.  Damn.  Even worse-  I lose 6 power dice.  Magic phase is FUBAR’d and over.

For shooting-  my left Archers kill another ‘Strider.  Get ‘em boys!

Combat:

The Khorne BSB issues a challenge.  I accept with my Captasus (if he lives, this will prevent the Forsaken from causing any wounds if they charge him in the flank.  Hopefully they fail their Frenzy test!).

The BSB and mount manage 2 unsaved wounds on the Captasus.  The BSB makes all his saves and doesn’t take force wounds in return.

The Skullcrushers manage to kill 3 Knights.  The GW Knights dish out 2 wounds of their own.

I barely lose combat but both units are Stubborn/Steadfast.  The Captasus makes his roll but the Knights fail.  They run away 9.”  Praise Ulric that the Captasus held fast otherwise my Knight block would probably have been Khorne-sacrificed.

The Marauder Horse finish off my lone Archer before they get killed by the Halb detachment.

My Demigryphs easily kill the Marauder Horse and overrun…a measly 5 inches…but enough to get out of the LOS of the Skullcrushers and Hellstriders.  Whew.

Here is what it looks like in the end:





Turn 2 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

The left Hellstriders charge the Archer detachment in their face.  Not wanting to give them their extra buffs, I decide to Flee!, hoping to get off the board.  Nope-  they only go 8 inches (less than an inch away from the edge!) and the Hellstriders make their charge and destroy them.  Now they have Devastating Charge.

No other charges.  The remaining Marauder Horse move up into a blocking position against the Greatswords and the left Halb detachment.  The Khorne blocks move up slightly and the Sorc Hellstrider bunker moves into a position on my east flank (it passes its Str test to move against the Net).





Magic:

He rolls a 4,3 for Winds with one Chaos channel.

8 PD to 4 DD.

He rolls a 5 dice Cac Choir (makes his Net Str test…again!) on the right Halb detachment and gets a really high number.  I let it go.  It kills 4 Halbs and gives them ASL and Random Mov d6.

He tosses a 3 dice Slicing Shards on the Demis (makes 3rd Str test!) but I easily dispel it.

His Hysterical Frenzied Skullcrushers cause a wound on themselves.  Hehe.

Combat:

The Khorne BSB kills off the Captasus.  Only gets a re-roll for his Eye of the Gods roll.
Here is what it looks like:





If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Turn 3 Winter Storm:

Movement:

The only charge is my Halb detachment against the Mar Horse.

My Knights rally and face towards the swamp (forcing the Skullcrushers into it if they charge).  The Halb detachment with random movement moves up 6 inches.

Otherwise my Greatswords move up slightly to keep her detachments in range and my Archers move up to divert his Sorc Hellstriders.  The Demigryphs reform to face south to get back into the action.





Magic:

6 & 3 for Winds, no channels.  9 PD to 6 DD.

I cast a 4 dice Banishment on the Hellstriders.  He thinks awhile…and decides to let it go.  I get 13 hits and 7 unsaved wounds.  Only the Sorc and 2 remain. 

Next I cast a 5 dice boosted version of Birona’s Timewarp.  IF.  In range are the Greatswords, right Halb det, Wiz bunker and Archer det.

The miscast sucks-  I lose 2 wizard levels and forget Net and Birona’s Timewarp.  Not too good for the home team…but unless he fails his Frenzy rolls I really doubt he is going to charge this turn.  Hopefully it buys me some time.



Combat:

With ASF and +1A, my Halbs make short work of the Mar Horse and reform to face forward.





Turn 3 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

The Skullcrushers declare a charge against my ICK.  I hold.  The Skullcrushers fail one Dangerous Terrain test, which removes one model from the unit because of previous wounds.

His Sorc leaves the Hellstrider unit and moves to put pressure on my Wizard bunker while the rest of the ‘Striders move up to block my Demis.

His other Hellstrider unit also moves up to put pressure on my Wizard bunker-  effectively blocking it in.

His Khorne blocks make their Frenzy tests and they move back slightly, not wanting to get hit by the crazy Time-warped Empire to their front.  I love it-  I have Khorne forces moving backwards!!!





Magic:

He gets a 4 and 2 for Winds.  No channels.

6 PD to 4 DD.

Always one to be aggressive with magic, he tosses a 6 dice boosted Cac Choir.  He gets it off, and my 4 dispel dice fall woefully short.

The Halbs suffer 4 casualties, 1 GS dies, the Archer detachments losses all but one, and my Wizard bunker loses 7!  Luckily they all make their Panic tests.  Unfortunately they are now all random movers….but with Time-Warp on they are 2d6 not 1d6.  How crazy…insane things sure do happen during the game!

His Hysterical Frenzied Skullcrushers (it is RiP) cause another wound to themselves.  I love it!

Combat:

The Khorne BSB challenges and I accept with my Champion.  He gets 2 wounds for CR and Overkill.  Again his rolls are pretty bad and with some crazy saves, none of my Knights die.  I do just as poorly in return attacks, only causing 1 unsaved wound.  Again, he barely wins combat but this time I make the Steadfast Break test.

What it looked like at the end:





Turn 4 Winter Storm:

Movement:

The only declared charge is the Demis versus the blocking Hellstriders.  They hold.

I decide to have my random movers go straight north.  Hopefully the right Halbs will get in the way of the Skullcrushers, my Greatswords can keep them in range, while my Wizard bunker gets some distance away from the threats in the rear.

The right Halbs get a little too happy-  and dance their way right into the Skullcrushers.  My Greatswords move up 7 inches in support…but they only have the back rank of the Halbs within 3 inches.  That unit is probably toast.  The Wiz bunker moves up tight against the Greatswords.

Finally, my free-moving left Halb block moves up to protect the flank of the Greatswords against the Khorne Forsaken.





Magic:

5 & 1 for Winds, no channels.  6 PD to 5 DD.

Bad turn for a crappy roll…I decide that defense is going to be my best bet for next turn, so I toss all 6 dice on Shield of Faith for my Greatswords and her detachments.

Not a great roll and he easily dispels it.

My lone Archer fails to hit the Sorc.

Combat:

The Demigryphs make short work of the last Hellstriders, but failed a Poisoned wound armour save.

The opposite happens with my poor Halbs-  the Skullcrushers annihilate them to the last man with no return strikes.

In the Skullcrushers versus my GW Knights, I manage to make an ridiculous amount of saves against the attacks from the riders.  I make a couple of more armour saves versus the mounts-  resulting in only 2 ICK deaths!!!  Great on defense, but not on offense, I fail to wound.  I take a Break test at -2…and succeed!  Whew!





Turn 4 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

His Sorc declares a charge against my Wiz bunker.  I Flee!  Because of the angle, they run over the lines to the northwest, make DT tests and are safe.

Of course, the Forsaken charge the Halb detachment and the Skullcrushers hit the Greatswords.  His Exalted Hero charges out of the ‘Striders to hit the rear of the GS as well.

Otherwise, his last Hellstriders move quickly over to get my fleeing Wiz bunker in their LOS. 





Magic:

He gets a 2 and 2 for Winds.  One Empire channel.

4 PD to 3 DD.


He tosses all 4 dice on Phantasmagoria on the GS.  I fail to dispel.  Now they must roll an extra d6 for all Leadership tests, discarding the lowest.  That could hurt….

Unfortunate for the Hysterical Frenzied Skullcrushers, they cause yet another wound to themselves, removing a model (my opponent cannot believe the number of 1s he rolled trying to make those easy saves.  Great for the Empire!

Combat:

The Skullcrushers versus my Knights-  finally the Skullcrushers live up to their name.  They cause 6 unsaved wounds.  My 2 remaining ICK whiff.  I fail my Break test but run 10 inches!  The Skullcrushers fail to catch them in pursuit.

The Forsaken get Killing blow and max attacks against the Halbs.  They kill all but 3 and take no damage in return.  Halbs make their Stubborn Break test.

The Slaanish Exalted Hero issues a challenge in the GS fight.  My Arch Lector accepts.  He causes 3 wounds, but I make 2 AS and a 6+ WS-  taking no wounds.  My opponent just stands there shaking his head.  The AL fails to wound in response.

He directs as many attacks as he can towards my BSB-  wanting to get rid of my Hold Your Ground ability and re-roll.  Again-  I make all my AS!  My opponent can’t believe it.  9 Greatswords die to the fury of the Skullcrushers.  The GS generate 16 wounds in response, but he makes all his AS but 3.  I Skullcrusher dies.  2 remain. 

I roll 4 dice for my Stubborn Break test and after throwing out the lowest and highest I pass the test.   The GS hold.  What it looked like at the end:





Turn 5 Winter Storm:

Movement:

My Demis finally get into some real combat and make a successful charge against the Skullcrusher flank.

My Wiz bunker rallies, but my Knights fail (don’t get double 1s) and run to within 2” of the table edge.

My lone archers moves up to shoot at the Sorc Lord.





Magic:

5 & 4 for Winds, one Chaos channel.  9 PD to 6 DD.

I cast a 3 dice Net on the last Hellstriders.  He lets it go.

Again, I toss a 6 dice Shield of Faith on the Greatswords.  Again, he dispels it.


Combat:

Nothing happens in the Exalted Hero versus Arch Lector challenge, both of us making all saves.

The Skullcrushers kill a total of 5 Greatswords.  The Demis fail to impress and do not cause any unsaved wounds.  The GS get 3 unsaved wounds, removing another Skull model.  The unit is down to 1 remaining.

The Skullcrusher make its Break test but the Exalted Hero flees 11 inches away.  The ‘Crusher loses Frenzy, but still has +1A for Hysterical Frenzy.

The Forsaken easily mop up the remaining Halbs in the detachment.





Turn 5 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

The Forsaken charge the flank of my Greatswords.

The Hellstriders declare a charge against my Wizard bunker but fail their Net Str test.  The Net kills them all and saves my Wizard Bunker! 

His Exalted Hero rallies and faces north.  Otherwise, his free Skullcrusher perform a swift reform and move up around the swamp so they can charge my GS next turn.  The Sorc moves up to get his spells into range.





Magic:

He gets a 3 and 1 for Winds.  No channels.  Man, the magic phases keep getting weaker and weaker!

4 PD to 3 DD.

He tosses another Cac Choir on the GS.  I fail to dispel.  4 GS die and the Slaanish Sorc Lord gains +1WS, +1I, and +1A from one of the wounds (his Lore attribute)

The Hysterically Frenzied Skullcrusher doesn’t wound himself.

Combat:

The Skullcrusher kills a couple of GS before it dies to Demi and GS counterattack.  The Forsaken get 10 wounds….but I make a crazy five 5+ armour saves!   (I think my opponent is still shaking his head after this battle…)

My Demis reform and face south.  The GS make their Break test and reform to face the Forsaken.  I put them 8 wide so my BSB could hang off the end, out of combat.

What it looked like at the end:





Turn 6 Winter Storm:

Movement:

The Demis declare a charge against the Sorc Lord.  When my opponent realizes that I can declare a second charge with my lone Archer (likely pushing him off the board), he decides to take his chances in combat and holds.

My lone Archer moves over for a short range shot at the Exalted Hero and my Wiz bunker moves up to get better range for spells.

The ICK fail to rally and go off the board.





Magic:

2 & 2 for Winds, no channels.  4 PD to 2 DD.

With the dice advantage now, I use all 4 dice on Shield of Faith and finally get it off successfully.

The Archer fails to wound the Exalted Hero and the Wiz bunker archers have no effect on the Skullcrushers.

Combat:

The Forsaken get 6 wounds on the GS.  I make four 5+ armour saves, and two 5+ Ward saves.  I don’t take ANY wounds!  In return, the GS kill 4 Forsaken.

The Forsaken lose combat and fail their Break test.  They run 5 inches and the GS run them and hack them into pieces going 8 inches!

The Sorc Lord battle doesn’t go any better for my opponent.  The Sorc gets 2 wounds between his attacks and Firebreath and doesn’t suffer any in return.  Tied CR, but I have a musician.  He loses by 1 and fails his Break test.  He runs away 10 inches and I fail to catch him on a 9.





Turn 6 Rapturous Frenzy:

Movement:

The Skullcrushers charge my GS in the flank.

His Sorc Lord fails to rally and runs off the board.





Combat:

The Khorne BSB issues a challenge.  I accept with my GS champion.  He gets 1 wound and kills him.  The Skullcrushers net 6 wounds, but I make 3 Ward saves!  Only 3 GS die.  The GS fail to wound in return.

All I have to do is pass this Stubborn break test and the game is mine….and I easily make it on 3 dice.  Not like it matters, but the GS reform to face the Skullcrushers.

Game over.





After Action:

I won by a whooping 863 VPs (a massacre) but the game was a lot closer than that.  Change a few rolls and it would have been a different result.

1.  Chaos packs a punch.  My poor Halbs were Khorne food…and my Greatswords performed well only because of my great armour saves and ward saves.  Characters are not safe against Chaos…and you really have to play it smart to keep them alive.  Frenzy can be liability, but if played right with lots of support, it can be mitigated.

2.  I am not sold on the Hellstriders.  They look cool on paper, but in several battles I have yet to see them live long enough to get all their buffs.  They are great Warmachine and Wizard hunters, but they are squishy. 

3.  His fast cavalry heavy force cleared out my archers easy enough, but they served their purpose long enough to keep the base Griffon formation intact.  I have found that if you manage the battle and only allow 2-3 turns of combat against the base of the formation, your opponent cannot bring enough combat power to take it off the board.  To a certain degree, it is a great points-denial.

4.  Sorry Q-beam, but I really missed my STank in this battle.  The Demis perform alright but a few cannon shots and some grindage would have served me well.  Of course, I could have added a cannon or HBVG, but I think his fast cav would have made short work of it.  Besides, I like showing how a combat-heavy Empire force can stand toe-to-toe with the best of them and hold its own.  You don’t have to have artillery with our new book.

5.  My dice rolls were really hot.  I think I would have still come out on top with normal rolls-  especially if my offensive rolls would have been average, which they weren’t. 

Hope you enjoyed the Battle Report.  I look forward to your feedback and comments as always.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Quickbeam

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4.  Sorry Q-beam, but I really missed my STank in this battle.  The Demis perform alright but a few cannon shots and some grindage would have served me well.  Of course, I could have added a cannon or HBVG, but I think his fast cav would have made short work of it.  Besides, I like showing how a combat-heavy Empire force can stand toe-to-toe with the best of them and hold its own.  You don’t have to have artillery with our new book.

Thanks  :::cheers::: I really thought this was a great demonstration of what we can do but I think it's time I either invest in a Stank or convert up some Demigryphs! I've been trying to pull off playing without them but I'm beginning to think they are essential to stay in the competitive side if you want to play aggressively.
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Offline librisrouge

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Great battle! I've missed these reports and didn't even realize it until I got to read one. It's a rare and beautiful thing to see such a well thought out battle plan.
Much like Communism, a level three wizard is a waste of everyone's time and will, in due course, fail miserably.

Offline GenOmar

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love your BatReps, the list seems solid, the concept - Great, and your Execution is spot on.
question though... how does the Griffon formation hold up for say Dawn Attack, when you can't count on where some of those vital formation units will show up?  :dry:
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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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I have played the Dawn Attack several times with a "Griffon Formation" list.

So far I haven't had any trouble forming some kind of solid defense.  The detachments deploy with the parent and since I have a few regiments of archers at least one is always near.  A few times I have had to put the various units on the edge of their deployment zones next to each other and spend a turn moving everything into something useful.

I think the key thing is that you don't have to form the perfect Griffon to make use of the tactics.  For instance, when I play people used to seeing my Griffon formation, I sometimes deploy completely different just to scramble their brains and put them off balance.   :icon_twisted:

HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Wow, what an excellent game and report. Always a pleasure to read, HHG!
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Offline Noght

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Wow, what an excellent game and report. Always a pleasure to read, HHG!

+1.  Well done....
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Offline b0007452

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Great report HHG and that looked a really fun game to be involved in.

Your style of writing really does the battles justice, I probably prefer your reports to some of the video based ones on youtube.

Cheers for sharing.
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Offline Dforrest

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These are amazing reports and have given me even more motivation to get my Empire force up and running. I just discovered this thread and sat and read the whole thing through. Wonderful!  :biggriin:

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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I appreciate all the kudos and feedback.

I meant to do a couple of Battle Reports during the end of my Escalation League but I was getting ready to move and they take lots of time and effort.

Needless to say, my Empire list made it to the final round only to get beat by an old Army Book Chaos list.  I had some major dice rolls go bad....  It would have been a good one to post so you could have seen a loss.

I will try and post a Battle Report every so often.  They are fun for me to re-read to relive the battles and remember what I was feeling and why I made the decisions I made, when I made them.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Lawrence

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Hi HHG,


thank you very much for the battle reports! They are great!  :eusa_clap:

Keep on your good work on those articles around the griffon formation. The last months I silently read your articles and was fascinated about your thoughts about fielding an empire army in griffon formation style.

But now I cannot be the silent reader anymore...While devouring your last battle report against the new WoC I thought about some of your tactical decisions to review and gain some experience in fielding a griffon formation:
  • Emp turn 1: the Archers on left flank moved far to close to the light cavs, why don't you save them for redirecting charges of the heavy cav and use your ICKs for countering the hellstriders? I think, if the WoC did not have those soft targets for their hellstriders, they would have been more
    constrained in their movement on the battlefield and would not penetrate your lines in turn 2.
  • WoC turn 1: your archer detachment (left griffon wing) hold the charge from marauder horsemen (WH11). Why did you do that? If the detachment fled, the horsemen would be forced to hold 1 inch infront of your captasus or the greatswords or the would to have redirect their charge in to one of those units, where would have been destroyed earlier. Not to speak of your archer detachment, which could have been rallied and used to cover your wizard's bunker.
  • Emp turn 2: Why do you charge the skullcrushers (Skl1) with your ICK and the captasus? They do not have any support at that time and your troops are no match in this constellation. I would suggest that the empire player tries to redirect such heavy units until he has enough power assembled to counter them.
  • Turns 1-3: the greatswords are far too static. They should have been earlier in action with support from the cav units. Those 3 turns are wasted from my point of view, or are they not?

What do you think?

Thanks in advance,  :::cheers:::
kind regards,
Lawrence
"It is still less fair, of course, like all war-stories, to the un-named rank and file: who miss their share of credit, as they must do, until they can write the despatches."
T.E. Lawrence: Seven Pillars of Wisdom. - First published in Great Britain by Jonathan Cape 1935.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Great questions.

  • Emp turn 1: the Archers on left flank moved far to close to the light cavs, why don't you save them for redirecting charges of the heavy cav and use your ICKs for countering the hellstriders? I think, if the WoC did not have those soft targets for their hellstriders, they would have been more
    constrained in their movement on the battlefield and would not penetrate your lines in turn 2.

The simple answer on this:  for shooting and stand & shoot. 

My opponent would never put his Hellstriders into a position where I could charge them or catch them if they fled with forces that could kill them.  Putting those left archers 10.5 inches away gave them close range shots and the ability to stand and shoot.  The fast cav is squishy and I killed 3 this way.  Because of his range, I never would be able to use the Archers to support my cavalry against his cavalry.  He had the advantage in that regard.

Also-  if both Archer units fled, they would end up behind my lines and probably not be in position to divert because of his speed.  You are right, this would have helped me against his hunt against my Wiz bunker, but I hoped that my magic missiles would be able to deal with them if they got back there.

  • WoC turn 1: your archer detachment (left griffon wing) hold the charge from marauder horsemen (WH11). Why did you do that? .

I liked having his horse finish right near my lines.  If I fled, he would not redirect to my main combat units and would have gone 1-6 on a failed charge.  He would have been able to use them in future turns because I likely would not have charged them so far forward and screwed up my lines.

I think the key thing here is that I sacrifice my diverters willingly as long as it meets some other end.  In both cases his fast cavalry ended up in places I wanted.  The horse in front of the battle line and the Hellstriders out of way so I could charge the Skullcrushers...which leads to your next question...

  • Emp turn 2: Why do you charge the skullcrushers (Skl1) with your ICK and the captasus? They do not have any support at that time and your troops are no match in this constellation. I would suggest that the empire player tries to redirect such heavy units until he has enough power assembled to counter them.

I didn't want the Skullcrushers getting the charge on my Knights and gaining +1 Str for their mounts.  I didn't want to give him the option of doing the cavalry tap dance over there with me and potentially allowing him to ignore my cav and do a multi-charge into the meat of my lines.

Yes, this was not a fight in my advantage.  All I wanted to do was to tie up that west Skullcrushers and do some damage to it while I worked the center.  Honestly I was delaying for time.  Luckily for me it worked-  I held that unit up until Turn 6 when I could deal with it.  Had he not killed my Warrior Priest in the first round of combat I would have done even more damage to it with Hatred.

  • Turns 1-3: the greatswords are far too static. They should have been earlier in action with support from the cav units. Those 3 turns are wasted from my point of view, or are they not?

The Greatswords are great points denial.  They are over 500 points (700+ with characters) that usually have to be killed to the very last man because of Stubborn.  I have only lost the unit once....and it was because I was overly aggressive in Turn 2 and they got swarmed.

The Chaos player had massive amounts of combat power and mobility that could have ruined my day had I not been careful.  The Griffon Formation is a tool...but it is only part of a set of tactics I use to control the battlefield and set up combats that I want.  I did not want to face all his forces at once....I wanted to deal with them gradually.

Your observations are valid-  there are numerous ways I could have played this and there are no right or wrong answers.  I play more the style that you are talking about when I have the advantage with diverters and the opponent is forcing me to come to him.

In this case, my opponent had the advantage in speed, maneuverability, and combat power besides the massive attacks I could generate with the Greatswords.  Because of this, I managed the battle to have the Greatswords deal with one Skullcrusher unit, then deal with the Forsaken, and then deal with the last Skullcrusher unit.

Thanks for the questions.  I hope my response helps you see why I did what I did.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 05:44:47 PM by Holy Hand Grenade »
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Lawrence

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 :::cheers::: Thanks for your answers!

They make your decisions much more clear. And I have some more things to think about.

The horde in your griffon formation is mainly used for bunkering /saving points. In this case you could also place your lvl4 into your greatswords and use the then former wizard bunker as another manoeuver element...

After all I look forward to read more of your excellent battle reports, and I am also looking forward to my next game with the empire, when I can try out, some of your proposals.

Thank you very much,
enjoy  :icon_biggrin:
Lawrence
"It is still less fair, of course, like all war-stories, to the un-named rank and file: who miss their share of credit, as they must do, until they can write the despatches."
T.E. Lawrence: Seven Pillars of Wisdom. - First published in Great Britain by Jonathan Cape 1935.

Offline Noble Korhedron

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What does the Catapsus do these days, with no Casket of Sorcery to remove enemy spells....?