Topic: AoS Knightly Orders vs Reiksguard

[SoonerSox]

looking at the profiles of both units, it seems to me that 2h Knightly Orders are better than their lance counterpart KO and also better than the Reiksguard which must take lances. The main reason being that the shield rule for Knights is not very good. If it gave them a 3+ save there would be an argument but rerolling 1's doesn't gain you much.

It all comes down to either 1 attack at 3+ to hit (with +1 dmg and wounding on the charge) and 4+ to wound vs 2 attacks at 4+ to hit but 3+ to wound. The latter sounds much better to me with the negligible advantage of their shields.

[Baron von Klatz]

Interesting point, Soonersox.

Sounds like good news to those Ulric army generals and their knights.

[Oxycutor]

In 8th, the trade off was go last, but hit hard every turn, or hit hard on the charge, and get a better save, with a slight more chance of going first, not to mention to get great weapons, you had to kitbash them, so more often you went with lances anyway.

In AoS it's a different trade off.  Lances have 2" range, meaning you can attack with two ranks, if you're still ranking up your models, but that is negated by the 2 attacks for using a cav hammer anyway, and cav has a better to wound roll.

The lances get +1 to wound and +1 damage on the charge.  And once per battle can re-roll hits

Reiksguard get +1 to hit over normal knights

I think I would go with cavalry hammers, and the double attacks.  Difference in to and to wound isn't anywhere near as good as double attacks.   double damage on the charge is pretty much the same as double attacks, but double attacks is every turn, not just charge turn

[Dosiere]

Don't knightly order boxes come with the cavalry hammers and bearded faces?  I haven't bought one in about 10 years but mine did IIRC, and people would use those as great weapons usually. 

The +1 damage on the charge is pretty sweet for lances though.

On another note, it's funny how the horses are actually about as good in combat as the knights now.  Sometimes despite the mathhammer I sometimes felt my horses did more than my knights in WFB.  I'm pretty sure they intentionally made them almost as good as a joke here.

[SoonerSox]

That's true, I was pretty surprised to see horses have 2 attacks. After the charge, they are better than knightly orders with lances (1 attack). Since they are both 4+ 4+ on attack and wound. Speaking of warhorses has anyone else ever thought that "named" horses like Daisy (Marius Leitdorf) and Kriegslust (Kurt Helborg) Should have a better profile than a standard warhorse? Or at least an extra ability?

Don't knightly order boxes come with the cavalry hammers and bearded faces?  I haven't bought one in about 10 years but mine did IIRC, and people would use those as great weapons usually. 

The +1 damage on the charge is pretty sweet for lances though.

On another note, it's funny how the horses are actually about as good in combat as the knights now.  Sometimes despite the mathhammer I sometimes felt my horses did more than my knights in WFB.  I'm pretty sure they intentionally made them almost as good as a joke here.

[Oxycutor]

That's true, I was pretty surprised to see horses have 2 attacks. After the charge, they are better than knightly orders with lances (1 attack). Since they are both 4+ 4+ on attack and wound. Speaking of warhorses has anyone else ever thought that "named" horses like Daisy (Marius Leitdorf) and Kriegslust (Kurt Helborg) Should have a better profile than a standard warhorse? Or at least an extra ability?

Don't knightly order boxes come with the cavalry hammers and bearded faces?  I haven't bought one in about 10 years but mine did IIRC, and people would use those as great weapons usually. 

The +1 damage on the charge is pretty sweet for lances though.

On another note, it's funny how the horses are actually about as good in combat as the knights now.  Sometimes despite the mathhammer I sometimes felt my horses did more than my knights in WFB.  I'm pretty sure they intentionally made them almost as good as a joke here.

My luck has always been such that horses alwaya do better than the riders.  They have a habit of rolling 5's and 6's.    So under these new rules, they could be awesome. 

And Daisy does have an extra ability - She is the greatest general in the Empire according to her rider.  That's represented by rolling a 5-6 on the command ability.

I would have thought Kurt Helborg, and other grandmasters and generals would have the best pick of horses, so would have a mount that hits harder.   Other armies had characters with better than average mounts - Tyrion, Malus Darkblade and so on.