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Author Topic: Question on Tau / Eldar  (Read 2498 times)

Offline Duce

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Question on Tau / Eldar
« on: February 05, 2009, 11:01:58 AM »
Right, i'm thinking of collecting a small 1k - 1500 Army on the side, but i'm torn.

Which would be better for fast flanking attacks with loads of guns.

I was thinking Eldar guardians with the troop Apc's, i cant remember if its the falcon or the wave serpent (i think the wave serpent is the full apc and the falcon carries small squad right?)

where i would load them up with guardians and striking scorpions. maybe dire avengers, it would be all troops and transports, but i'm curious on what units would be needed to make it an effective list.

For the tau i was thinking the same thing, but using battlesuits / crisis suits and fire warriors. what sort of weapon loadouts are worthwhile on this.

The reason i'm asking these questions is befor ei have to go buy a codex which will work better for a good shooting centre with fast flanking units which can div einto hand to hand maybe and hold the enemy back.

Also which HQ's are nicer (For tau bettlesuit commander or such style would be happier with, i dont like the weird looking guys)

So short verison

Eldar: a mech army with cc units in transports and a good shooty centre for all comers,

Tau: a battlesuit mech army with some cc and good shooting.

Comments, help, opinions, hugs?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 11:04:37 AM by Duce »
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 11:12:31 AM »
So your choice is between an army of humanoid suppositories and a bunch of anime-style bovines...
 :-D
I'd go for the Eldar. The Tau can't really do cc, the Eldar can do both. And in my personal opinion, the Tau don't fit into 40K visually.

Offline Mogsam

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 11:56:34 AM »
Tau are cooler, the Eldar are litterally elves in space. Zzzz.

Mogsam.
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Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 12:29:21 PM »
You're correct, Wave Serpents are the proper transports, and Falcons are the guntanks (falcons are nowadays not liked by alot of eldar players. Something to do with not allowing an autowin Harlequin list anymore) with some transport capability. I'm starting an Eldar army in a few weeks to get back into 40k, I quite like them.

The thing with Eldar is every aspect unit is specialised. Even to the point of both CC units being quite different in what they go for. Banshees go for small numbers of power armour, and Scorpions go for large amounts of poor armour hordes. The banshees ignore armour and always go first, but have a lot less attacks, while the scorpions don't ignore armour, but have better strength and lots more attacks.

Farseers are in my opinion one of the best support characters in the game. Doom and Guide are two exceptionally useful powers, doom to help low str wound higher toughness, guide to make sure those 3 warwalkers with scatter lasers hit with most of their 24 str6 shots against that ork mob.
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Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 06:07:45 PM »
if you go tau you can do the favored tactic fish of fury!

Basically you grab laods of fire warriors and stick them into the fish transports and rush them at the enemy. deploy the FW and use the fish as cover.  if the enemy gets to close hop into the fish and speed away.  Crisis suits are awesome, I say get them but magnitise all weapons and equipment so you can swap them out if need be.  Love stealth suits.  A small unit with a big punch.

I think tau fits into 40k rather well actually.  But thats my opinion.  I think the FW look more like storm/clone troopers from starwars.  The suits definatley look like japense cartoonish.
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Offline UltimateNoob

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 06:53:44 AM »
You've picked the two armies that require the most finesse to play well congratulations  :-D. They are two of the most fragile armies in the entire game aside from Dark Eldar.

Both armies can do mech really well which is what I see you're heading towards, except they're slightly different.

Eldar mech is essentially a game of maneuvering and waiting till the perfect moment to strike then unloading hell onto the enemy and perhaps charge in for the kill, hopefully killing them off before they shoot back or assault you. Wheras tau is more a game of slowly wearing down your enemy by outmaneuvering them, shooting them and then eliminating the frayed ends. These two styles are reflected through both army lists with the Eldar being speedier than the tau while the tau have jsj.

Dire Avengers are great in waveserpents with an exarch and blade storm, unloading 30 shots at bs4 will kill most things (especially with doom). Striking scorpions, just remember they can't assault out of transports and they can infiltrate. Exarch with scorpion claw to cut through armour is the norm. Scorpions are taken in the majority of lists over Banshees as they provide flexibility and survivability. Jetbikes are really good, they are  maneuverable and can take objectives while costing almost nothing and also provide support fire through their shuriken cannons (1 per 3).

The most defining point of Eldar though in comparison to tau, is that your characters actually mean something, whereas a battlesuit commander is just another battlesuit (albeit a particularly more effective one). He/She is unique and has a role no other can take.

On the tau side of things, we can do cc mildly but its almost centralized to "the seven samurai" (O'shova and his body guard which is just cool) and kroot with kroot hounds. Fish of Fury requires special modeling on the behalf of the devilfish in order to give TLOS to the fire warrior unit, whereas I just use my fish to protect my suits (playing in a group with little LOS blocking terrain). The thing with tau though is that you need railguns to kill armour, hammerheads were ommited from your list, and I highly recommend them for a mech army (Broadsides still fill this role better though). In terms of your battlesuits specialize them. If you don't you waste points on weapons which are firing at the wrong targets or are out of range and do not glue them, magnetize if possible to allow for flexibility between games.

In the end if you're in it for competitiveness, Eldar have the edge over Tau (the tau book being "dated" and not recieving alot of love from GW, there are currently no developers that like the Tau).

Offline Duce

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 10:00:00 AM »
Awesome replies, so thanks guys.

I'm thinking of the Eldar more and more with mech style rushing fowards to objectives and flanking.

I used to have them so getting back an army for some small game fun, that and to give me somethign to use when fighitng other iperial armies as SM vs SM isn't as interesting and as fluffy.

Tau was more for mech and using the suits which look awesome, but i'm not a fan of the Kroots, but thats because i was kind fo pickign the army purely based on looks and the suits, transports hammerheads etc look great, with the fire warriors looking meh.

Eldar it will be then, time to ponder a list.  :icon_biggrin:
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Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2009, 10:48:16 PM »
I've also decided to get Eldar, doing 500 point increases for 3 months to get a full 1500 army. Doing it this way so I don't get overwhelmed and only paint a few.

Plus low point games can be great fun.

Only downside is everytime I read the Eldar book, I see -another- thing the only Eldar player I've played against blatantly cheated with.

Same whenever I read the 40k rulebook, I see another thing he cheated with.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 10:58:17 PM »
One of my best friends is like that too. Whenever we play Warhammer or 40K, I routinely go "show me..." whenever he announces he has a piece of equipment on a character or wants to use a special rule. More often than not, it turns out to be not there or does something different from what he claimed. Oh well. At least his army lists are getting more accurate after I calculated some through and found he was off by up to 200 points...
No matter. He's fun to play against anyway, and this stuff is gettig so routine it doesn't annoy me anymore. A bit like slapping a kids hand who's continually trying to rob the cookie jar, without even bothering to look up from ones newspaper anymore. You just know he's gonna try. :-D

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 11:06:22 PM »
This guys an incredibly poor loser, and a very good list writer. Demands others make fluff armies, then writes perfect counter lists.

Hell, I remember asking how to rally or something, I forgot, he told me to roll, I knew this part but he declined telling me the free move of 3 inches. My marines were 1 inch from cover, and surrounded by gaurdians. When it came to his shooting, to make a point I moved those damned marines into cover, took the book and made him read it.

My first game versus him involved my imperial guard being first turn charged by Scorpions. That is impossible, I told him he cant do that, he insisted, took rulebook and told me he was right. I let it go. I almost kicked his ass too, except the scorpions gutted my army. I later checked a rulebook (I didn't have one that game) and I was right.

He also has a tendency to set up terrain perfectly for him on both sides. Like with the scorpions, there were long thin forests on the edge of both deployment zones so he could go into them with infiltrate.

And his tendency to put a ruin in the middle of both deployments with perfect firelanes to most of the board and put Dark Reapers in it when he knows he's facing marines.

End Rant.

I do like the guy however.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 11:08:23 PM by MrDwhitey »
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 11:12:21 PM »
OK, my friend isn't like that. He's just a habitual cheat, and no sore loser either. Concerning terrain: alternate setting up terrain pieces. That should solve it. If you still wanna play him that is.

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 11:15:57 PM »
OK, my friend isn't like that. He's just a habitual cheat, and no sore loser either. Concerning terrain: alternate setting up terrain pieces. That should solve it. If you still wanna play him that is.

I'd never get the chance to alternate terrain. He'd have it ready before I got there, or prepare it while I was busy doing other things.

I once did call him out on placing a quite obvious bunker in the middle of his deployment. He removed it and put a ruin there. Pretty much did the same thing. I couldn't be bothered and decided to soldier on and see what I could do. I've decided since then never to play a game I know has a very big chance of being crap.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline UltimateNoob

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2009, 06:05:12 AM »
Yeah people like that are annoying, once had to face an ork spead freak army as tau and there was not one piece of cover on the table (which was not the opposing players fault, was at a tournament).

Terrain is so important, in that game he could move with impunity and tear everything apart as my troops were unable to find cover to hide behind or to deny him his superior numbers and his incredibly fast trucks. Needless to say I conceded the game, not officially, before we deployed, he recognised this bad set of circumstances and kinda said bad luck. However I did play through to the end and somewhat enjoyed the frustration of being able to do nothing while he rolled dice and made me remove stuff.

I don't know what the point of that story was but I guess attitude of the opposition is something which I find a decider in whether I enjoy my games or not.

If he does set up the table it should be common courtesy to let you pick the side. It could be my naievity but some people just like creating terrain placements where they want every piece to perform a function and set it up accordingly or set it up classically like bunkers and hills in deployments or a river in the middle and he may just want a slightly themed table. A battle a bunker/ruin being some sort of defendable position for the narrative he may have come up with for the battle.

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2009, 03:11:28 PM »
If he does set up the table it should be common courtesy to let you pick the side. It could be my naievity but some people just like creating terrain placements where they want every piece to perform a function and set it up accordingly or set it up classically like bunkers and hills in deployments or a river in the middle and he may just want a slightly themed table. A battle a bunker/ruin being some sort of defendable position for the narrative he may have come up with for the battle.

It's nice making a themed battlefield. This guy however is the kind of person who only took more than utter minimum troops when he decided to spring "missions" on me, long after I'd chosen my list.

Yeah. Take loads of troops when you know I only physically have two troop selections so you can win the mission easily. Oh, don't tell me we're playing missions till set up either.

I'm going to stop now, I'm going to go emo and bitter and cut someone elses wrists.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 03:18:23 PM by MrDwhitey »
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline UltimateNoob

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2009, 10:08:48 PM »
I feel for you.  :-(

I've never encountered somebody like that, the worst I've had to deal with is people who concede after I shoot down their dragon or kill their daemon prince with a hammerhead. I guess the easiest way to play him is setting up some ground rules, like rolling for missions (there are three) or deciding beforehand missions before list building. Otherwise I wouldn't really bother playing with him unless I just wanted to give him a game if I was friend.

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Question on Tau / Eldar
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 10:28:56 PM »
I'm very bad at being confrontational, and very rarely build up the steam to do even such a thing as asserting my right by the rules to the free move after rallying/whatever.

So in that instance I can't man up and tell him, that and apparently he'd just react badly so whats the point.

Anyway, starting up hopefully this weekend 500 points mini league thing for people to get into 40k, or as I call it, my-excuse-to-make-a-40k-army. Walker spam will be fun.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.