Topic: 8th edition on route.

[phillyt]

 

[TexasYankee]

So, played my Orks for the first time with the new rules, this time without forgetting some of the rules like I did with my CSM, and got crushed by an IG Mech Guard list.

Long gone are the days when a 1/2 dozen boyz could run up to a Leman Russ, punch it a bunch times, and glance it to death with it's measly rear armor of 10 on the 1st charge. Now, even with 12 boyz and a Nob with power Klaw, those things WILL NOT DIE! It's always been a problem for Orks to deal with vehicles, but once we got into close-combat, it was less of an issue. Even Chimeras take over a turn to kill in CC! Meanwhile, out jumps his vet squad with flamers and WOOOOOSH! Dead Orks everywhere! I lost over 30 Orks in one turn, from less then 1/2 his army shooting at me.

The ability to fall back and to let others open up on the enemy you were engaged with is VERY powerful, especially for a gun-line. Even the dudes that fell back can shoot at you with the order "Get back in the fight!" which now happens automatically, you don't even need to roll.

Time to re-think the Ork statergy. LOVE the fact we strike first on the charge, it's amazing, now just have to find some type of long range, dependable anti-tank stuff for the greenskins. Lootas? Tankbustas?

[phillyt]

I've been steamrolling with orks.  Let me share with you my gleaned secrets:

1.  Kustom Force Fields are a must.  If you provide KFF coverage for your army, it will win.  You will need at least one big mek with KFF, then I suggest a Morkanaut with a KFF which is the most amazing model in the standard army list (there is a better one in the Forgeworld Index).  My actual suggestion is two KFF meks to qualify for the battalion detachment.

2.  Morkanauts and gorkanauts are brokenly good.  They need a KFF (I like the morks best since they come with one for 20 points).  And they are virtually unstoppable with big meks available.  With their 5++ save and the meks there to repair them, they will storm forward smashing everything before charging into combat.  They ae free to walk back out of combat and shoot and charge in the same turn.  You will want two such models in your army to divide attention though.

3.  30 man shoota/slugga squads are where it is at.  They will make things fearless arround them.  Two are the minimum.  You then take a unit of gretchin, the two big meks with KFF, and you have qualified for your battalion.  That should be your start every time.

4.  The greatest model in the army is now the Kill Tank with Kill Bursta kannon.  If you give it a KFF mek inside it, it will be the unstoppable nightmare for the enemy.  Its a monster of unthinkable lethality.  Its main kannon will take out vehicles with ease while the antiinfantry options will keep the enemy honest.  It gets 8 S10 3+ attacks in CC and causes 1d3 mortal wounds when it impacts the enemy.  It is awesome.  And less than 300 points!

5.  The best anti vehicle orks in the army?  Flash Gitz!  Give them ammo grots and swap a KFF mek for Baddrukk and you have a crazy accurate unit that will straight murder the enemy, be they infantry, elite infantry, or vehicles.  Super tough with loads of shots, it will strip units of wounds with startling rapidity.

[Artobans Ghost]

A long time coming of age for the orks! Sounds terrific as I love em,  but is there something to stop them? When I hear the term nothing will stop them , I worry about certain armies that were unstoppable in the old ed and thereby not to fun to play. Probably me worrying to much before  the other army synergies unfold.

[phillyt]

Oh yeah, you can stop them.  hey will be hard to stop if they are making their saves, but a 5+ will only go so far if you have the anti-infantry options on the table.

[Mathi Alfblut]

And provided you play at high enough point levels to cram in two Naughts like Phil.

Anyway, with the right orders and fixed bayonets the Guard WILL prevail!

And if you provide hose there is nothing to stop you cleaning the galaxy from Xeno filth.

[Darknight]

if you provide hose there is nothing to stop you cleaning the galaxy from Xeno filth.

Pict capture of a member of Colonel Mathi's elite "XenoWasher" squad (c. M42, colorized)

[phillyt]

We generally play 1000 or 1500 right now.  At 1500 I put both the Kil lTank and the Morkanaut, but at 1000 I normally just run the Morkanaut for its huge KFF bubble.

In terms of overall game theory, you really need to have a strong blend of anti infantry and antivehicle now.  FInding the most economical anti vehicle options is the best bet currently, since you can use anti-infantry to kill vehicles in a pinch but doing the opposite is a real challenge.  Since most vehicles are T6-7, even a S4 infantry weapon will wound on a 5+.  It is those T8 models that you need to worry about.  An army that can drop 2-3 of those will make for a real challenge unless you have lots of anti-vehicle options.  On the other hand, you can often just toss something into those big vehicles and neutralize them for a turn or two.

The greatest weakness of the orks is the same as it was last edition, no effectively consistent ranged anti-vehicle threat.  Lootas are okay, but only S7 and -1 AS.  That isn't going to do much against T8 vehicles who normalyl carry a 3+ AS.  Tankbustas do okay, though they need to get fairly close and MUST be in a vehicle or they will be ruined.  The best bet against things like landraiders is a unit of boyz who will just charge them or charge a trukk into it.  It will need to fall back, losing a round of combat.  A kill bursta cannon will also cause some serious damage with their S10 -4 AP and D2.

[Mathi Alfblut]

"You hose or you loose", old proverb of 43rd Kislevans "Hoseproviders".

First recorded by attached Sister Dialogus from The Order of Our Crystal Lady during the Malleus Imperium cleansing M42.

[Mathi Alfblut]

"You bring the fire, sister! I bring the hose!"

Colonel Mathis reply when asked about suggestion to a joint battleplan by the Canoness commander.

[phillyt]

I considered getting the set with the sisters of silence and the Custodes.  But I have so many elite marines to paint that I decided against it.

[oak_prince]

8E is fun. I dug through the closet and found my brother's 3E era Dark Eldar army and paired them against my friend's Dark Angels and we both had a blast. Now I regret selling my Space Marines and Imperial Guardsmen for a song.

[phillyt]

I'm preparing to paint the first models I have done since 2014.  I hope my rust isn't too significant!

[Gankom]

I'm pretty interested and happy to see how many people are coming back to the hobby because of this. Usually a new edition causes people to leave, frequently angrily. This is the first time I've seen people excited for a new edition in 20 years of the hobby!

Two of my long time fantasy playing friends have decided to start 40k, as orcs and marines. The streamlined rule set and easy get started kits have convinced a lot of people around here.

(I think I have to tone down the happiness a bit. I'm starting to sound a bit to much like a shill for gdubs)

[phillyt]

Its a super clean system, the model counts are WAY low, like looking at 3rd edition levels here.  Its a great time to get back in.

[Darknight]

Also, new GW interaction with the community. That's pretty exciting.

[Aldaris]

I've yet to play my first game of 8th edition, but the coworker I've started playing 40K with many years ago also got his interest rekindled, so it shouldn't be too far off.

I'm really wondering which of my existing armies I should focus on dusting off and adapting for the new game first. Blood Pact (rules wise Guard)? Chaos Marines? Necrons?

I'm kinda torn between the Pact and my Chaos Marines right now. Both look fun and strong. Necrons, I'm still kinda struggling a little bit building a list concept in my head that I like (although big blocks of Warriors plodding forward, constantly getting up, sounds fun).

Blood Pact I'm thinking something rather mixed - some tanks, some artillery, lots of bodies. Some Scions (erm... I mean Death Brigade troopers) deepstriking and Roughriders flanking to have some flexibility. Maybe a Vendetta or two dropping people (although I think I's either that or the Tanks. Only so many points). A solid base of Dakka with some hard hitting mobile elements, preferably with some CC stuff, because Blood Pact. Maybe an Eversor (hmmm... he could be a summoned Bloodwolf, like in the Gaunts Ghosts books) as well as the Riders?

Chaos Marines, I'm happy that Khorne looks good. Zerkers, Kharn, going in and wrecking face. Couple Walkers, maybe some Khorne Demons too? I fucking love the look of Bloodletters and Crushers, but I never liked Demons enough to get an actual army. Could maybe sprinkle some in? Anyone have any suggestions for a punchy Demons of Khorne detachment to add in?

How do you get Bloodcrushers into combat reliably? They look too expensive to summon with a forward Herald or Prince, and I feel they'd just get focused off the board starting deployed and walking over...

[phillyt]

Khorne marines are incredible now.

[Aldaris]

Yeah, that FAQ didn't hurt! Until that came out I figured that when Berzerkers charged I fight first once, and the second activation is a regular one, alternating with my opponent. Nope. They go in the "charged - go first" section on both activations.

Awww yeeeeahhhhh.

[cisse]

Aldaris - I'd go with the bloodpact. My IG are just so much fun right now. I run
- two 30 man conscript squads, 4 infantry squads
- veterans in a chimera, command squad with all melta in a chimera, scions squad
- a hellhound, two sentinels
- three basilisks, two leman russ's with battle cannon and a demolisher

So a nice fact brigade detachment, with lots of troops as well as some mobility and heavy hitters. And all of this in a 2000 point army! With 12 command points, and the orders, there isn't a lot you can't influence. I'd like some rough riders to replace the sentinels actually but can't find the models anywhere. Might buy some horses + I have a few cdian infantry sprues left over, and build my own.

All that said, I like the SM's (well, I run Space Wolves) too. Lower model count so games go a bit quicker, more reliable in general. But I have to admit I struggle a bit more with them due to some price increases.

[Aldaris]

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/10-man-rough-rider-conversion-kit

That should help. I started converting a squadron of RRs years ago, cutting, realigning and greenstuffing Cadian legs, but wasn't too happy with the results. I think I'll start over with that kit, and some DE Cold Ones as mounts.

[Mathi Alfblut]

I am once again working on my IG. No filthy Bloodpacters but proper honest Emperorfearing Guillimanloving guards!

It is probably the topic for a separate thread.

[phillyt]

This edition is really good.  Probably the biggest surprise is that armies are so much smaller.  The price increases has thrown some cold water on what see the table.

[Darknight]

In my Sisters force, the cost of a basic riflewoman has dropped - although the general cost of an army remains the same due to the vehicles.

[phillyt]

If you based armies on infantry, you don't really see a change.  But if you ran a vehicle heavy army, the point increase was massive for the most part, especially for transports.