Topic: Online Battle 1500pt: Empire Thread

[carmaul]

Online Battle 1500pt:  Empire Tactical Thread

This thread is for the EMPIRE TEAM ONLY for 1500pt   

--If you are in the Dwarf Team, or plan to join it, leave now.
--If you want to join the Empire Team, just post your intent in here.
--If you are visiting or plan to look at both team's threads to watch from the sidelines, then please refrain from posting tactical comments in the online battle until it is over.

The General for The Empire is Forumite.


Note:  Yes, I stole the format from HHG.

[Forumite]

I´m joining up with the Empire on this one.

Dwarves do infantry hordes and gunlines better than Empire, that leaves us with mobility and magic. I´m thinking Knights, Outriders, Stank and Heavens magic.

lvl 4 Heavens, barded warhorse, 4++, Power Stone, Ironcurse Icon
Captasus BSB, Lance, Enchanted Shield, Opal Amulet
10 ICK, FC, lances
10 ICK, FC, lances
5 Outriders, Musician
5 Outriders, Musician
Steam Tank

[carmaul]

I´m joining up with the Empire on this one.

Dwarves do infantry hordes and gunlines better than Empire, that leaves us with mobility and magic. I´m thinking Knights, Outriders, Stank and Heavens magic.

lvl 4 Heavens, barded warhorse, 4++, Power Stone, Ironcurse Icon
Captasus BSB, Lance, Enchanted Shield, Opal Amulet
10 ICK, FC, lances
10 ICK, FC, lances
5 Outriders, Musician
5 Outriders, Musician
Steam Tank

You can only have one unit of ICK.

[Forumite]

Dwarves are VERY slow, a gunline might be very effective against them because if they plan on getting to us, they will have to take several turns of shots before connecting. This is a canon-resistant army with both long-range and mobile elements. The WizLord stays with the crossbowmen and cannons in a small castle while the knights, BSB and Stank try to pressure forward. If they march against the castle then the Stank and Knights hit them in the side.

Lvl 4 Heavens, 4++, Power Stone, Ironcurse Icon <General>
BSB on Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate, Charmed Shield, Opal Amulet
10 ICK, FC
10 Crossbowmen
10 Crossbowmen
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
5 Outriders, Musician
Steam Tank

[spafe]

I will be watching with much interest. Might comment on tactics/ideas from time to time but being a novice at warhammer I prob wont be too much help. Only thought is, would it be worth taking a volley gun? could kill a lot of stunties quickly, and prob give 2 turns of good shooting out of it before they can clsoe cos they're slow?

[Krudenwald]

I thought it was agreed that we would use a GotE?

[Forumite]

It was talked about, but nothing is set in stone. Do you want a GotE? It might actually be a better than a lvl 4. The dwarves will do a good job of shutting down our magic, putting the points needed to get a good magic phase into more cannons and bodies might work. We just need more cannons to kill their cannons and would move dangerously close to a gunline-vs-gunline battle.

[carmaul]

Forumite,  it looks like you have contributed the most for the empire side.  Would you like to be the general?

There was talk of having a GotE but you are right, nothing was set in stone.  Use one if you want to or if Krudenwald can convince you to.

I do not want to see gunline vs gunline (the dwarfs are not going to make a nasty list so do not expect the full artillery that they like to bring).

If you could post a list and if no one gives any feedback, let's make it final.  I would like to get this battle started this weekend.

[codger69]

I'm new to the online threads, so hope I can help 

I do think that a horde of swords with crossbows and halberdier detachments is a good way to start, they are static, but move better than any dwarf unit.

The ICK knights are a must have, I would always suggest great weapons, but this is open to opinion

3 low characters, fire wizard = fireball, warrior priest for hatred and I never leave home without a General (plus I have been thinking for the additional 5 points a pistol, yes it's not there for an additional hand weapon, but you are talking at least 2 dead dwarfs before combat and therefore better than rank and file)

The lack of a cheap BSB could be an issue, what do you guys think???

 

[Chemnitz]

Here's what I would bring:

3 Demigryph Knights  (174 pts)

4 Demigryph Knights + Standard Bearer 10 + 1 Gleaming Pennant, 5 pts (247 pts)

1 Steam Tank (250 pts)

Arch Lector (208 pts)
      Warhorse 18 + Barding 6 + Heavy Armour 4
      1 Sword of Anti Heroes, 30 pts
      1 Enchanted Shield, 5 pts
      1 Dragonbane Gem, 5 pts
      1 Van Horstman's Speculum, 40 pts

9 Inner Circle Knights + Full Command + Standard of Discipline, 15 pts (270 pts)

Lvl 2 Battle Wizard (100 pts)
 
10 Archers w/ 5 archer detachment (105 pts)

Captasus (146 pts)
      Pegasus
      FPA
      Sword of Might
      Charmed Shield
      Pidgeon Plucker Pendant
      Potion of Foolhardiness
 
I've had a lot of luck with this Arch Lector build.  Get him with any Dwarf Character, and it's bad news for them.  They'll be hatred both ways, but I think our general wins.

The Captasus is hopefully going to wipe out any gyro-copter. 

Shadow might be a pretty nice lore vs. dwarves.

[carmaul]

I'm new to the online threads, so hope I can help 

I do think that a horde of swords with crossbows and halberdier detachments is a good way to start, they are static, but move better than any dwarf unit.

The ICK knights are a must have, I would always suggest great weapons, but this is open to opinion

3 low characters, fire wizard = fireball, warrior priest for hatred and I never leave home without a General (plus I have been thinking for the additional 5 points a pistol, yes it's not there for an additional hand weapon, but you are talking at least 2 dead dwarfs before combat and therefore better than rank and file)

The lack of a cheap BSB could be an issue, what do you guys think???

 

This is the kind of discussion the empire team needs to have.  I would like to see what Forumite thinks of your comments compared to his lists.

Here's what I would bring:

3 Demigryph Knights  (174 pts)

4 Demigryph Knights + Standard Bearer 10 + 1 Gleaming Pennant, 5 pts (247 pts)

1 Steam Tank (250 pts)

Arch Lector (208 pts)
      Warhorse 18 + Barding 6 + Heavy Armour 4
      1 Sword of Anti Heroes, 30 pts
      1 Enchanted Shield, 5 pts
      1 Dragonbane Gem, 5 pts
      1 Van Horstman's Speculum, 40 pts

9 Inner Circle Knights + Full Command + Standard of Discipline, 15 pts (270 pts)

Lvl 2 Battle Wizard (100 pts)
 
10 Archers w/ 5 archer detachment (105 pts)

Captasus (146 pts)
      Pegasus
      FPA
      Sword of Might
      Charmed Shield
      Pidgeon Plucker Pendant
      Potion of Foolhardiness
 
I've had a lot of luck with this Arch Lector build.  Get him with any Dwarf Character, and it's bad news for them.  They'll be hatred both ways, but I think our general wins.

The Captasus is hopefully going to wipe out any gyro-copter. 

Shadow might be a pretty nice lore vs. dwarves.

Chemnitz,

This would be an excellent list if we wanted a tough list, but in this battle we are going for fluffier lists.

[Forumite]

I like Chemnitz list. It´s mobile and hardhitting, and there´s two different sources for magic, the Arch Lector and the Wizard. I think I´d prefer the wizard hidden with a few knights though, I don´t know what the archers can do apart from slowing down the wizard.

As for Lore on the wizard, Fire, Shadow or Heavens for the long-range signature spells.

[cisse]

Dwarfs aren't that slow; with multiple units that can have a scout move they can be in your face really quick. Watch out taking a gunline list; you might be in for a surprise.

That said, I do think that a couple of cannons and other war machine hunters is Always (with capital) worth it for counter-battery fire. Take their war machines away and you take a great deal of their threat potential away. A helblaster would be good if only just to threaten those nasty new gyrobombers. Other than that, I'd go for a points denial list with a few skirmishing units to keep the big blocks away from our big points.

[carmaul]

I like Chemnitz list. It´s mobile and hardhitting, and there´s two different sources for magic, the Arch Lector and the Wizard. I think I´d prefer the wizard hidden with a few knights though, I don´t know what the archers can do apart from slowing down the wizard.

As for Lore on the wizard, Fire, Shadow or Heavens for the long-range signature spells.

Chemnitz list is a fine line, but this battle is two lighter lists.  Don't bring all the powerful tools, but instead try other things in the book.  Try something new.  The dwarfs are not bringing a power list.  If you want to go with Chemnitz's list then they need to be aware that Empire is not going light and they will adjust.

Personally,  I would rather see two average lists going at it, using not always optimal units.   The last game I played, 4000 points,  I did not take War Altar, artillery (1 Stank only), DGKs or halberds.  I did a full Griffon with 55 Greatswords, archers and ICKs as my core, and used the emperor himself as my general, mounted on his Imperial Dragon.  It was a very fun game.  Opponent brought a few blocks of chaos warriors with various marks, smaller blocks of chosen and forsaken,  a Mutalisk (spelling?), Hellcannon (he opted not to shoot it and use it as a chariot), and Archaon.  It was a very fun game.

[Forumite]

carmaul, are you asking us to tone it down? Isn´t going mounted handicap enough?

Chemnitz list is good, but I don´t consider it too strong, it has several big weaknesses, like blocks of heavy infantry, vanguarding or not. If I could I´d give the wizard a horse and a bunker with 2 units of Outriders to block vanguards, but we need those 4 fighting units and the Captasus. I think we should bring Chemnitz list (with a Shadow Wizard) and see how it goes.

[carmaul]

carmaul, are you asking us to tone it down? Isn´t going mounted handicap enough?

Chemnitz list is good, but I don´t consider it too strong, it has several big weaknesses, like blocks of heavy infantry, vanguarding or not. If I could I´d give the wizard a horse and a bunker with 2 units of Outriders to block vanguards, but we need those 4 fighting units and the Captasus. I think we should bring Chemnitz list (with a Shadow Wizard) and see how it goes.

Talk to Sammay about how well a mounted army performs.  They can be very effective.

I would like it toned down a bit.  You have a Stank, and 2 units of DGKs.  That is pretty nasty for 1500. 

Think you could drop one of the three and replace it with something else?

[RasputinII]

Hello.

I strongly recommend a unit of huntsmen. If the dwarves aren't going gunline (which we know) then they will have a minimum of one vanguarding gyro and theres a good chance they could go with one or more vanguarding block. To mix things up. That small investment for a unit of scouts could be a huge bonus in locking down their van guarding units, and keeping them in place, not able to VG. If they have no vanguarding units, then a scouting bit of chaff is always delicious.

Edit: I would also consider forgoing the stank. Its going to go down to warmachines hard. If it doesn't, hammerers are going to make short work of it. Maybe you could make the case that the stank can draw fire from other things, but at 1500pts, giving up 250pts doesn't rock my world. 4 DG put a lot more wounds on the table versus cannons for similar points. I'm not convinced I'm right about this. If they're not going fun line then how many cannons and rock droppers are they gonna bring? The tank can hold up what ever the non hammerers block is.

Other question, would a hell blaster be more effective than a cannon. Maybe a stank and a hell blaster would be all you need artillery wise. With the stank aiming to shoot the dwarf cannon(s) and the hell blaster to take on the hammerers.

[carmaul]

carmaul, are you asking us to tone it down? Isn´t going mounted handicap enough?

Chemnitz list is good, but I don´t consider it too strong, it has several big weaknesses, like blocks of heavy infantry, vanguarding or not. If I could I´d give the wizard a horse and a bunker with 2 units of Outriders to block vanguards, but we need those 4 fighting units and the Captasus. I think we should bring Chemnitz list (with a Shadow Wizard) and see how it goes.

Forumite,  did you want to be the general for the Empire side?

Also,  did you want to keep that list or adjust it a little? (Does anyone else think its a tough list at 1500 or it is just me? If it is just me, I will drop my comment about toning it down)

The Dwarf side is about ready.  I would like the Empire to be ready soon if possible

[Forumite]

If anyone else wants to be general then I´m happy to step back and advice instead.

As for the list, either we go with Chemnitz, or something similar. I was thinking about Outriders but it´s tough to fit them in. Huntsmen was a really good idea, and quite cheap, so how about this?
-
Arch Lector, barded warhorse, HvyA, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, VH-Speculum
Captain, Pegasus, FPA, Charmed Shield, Sword of Might
lvl 2 Shadow Wizard, Warhorse, Power Stone
10 ICK, FC
6 Knights, Musician, Standard
4 DKG, Standard, Gleaming Pennant
10 Huntsmen
Stank

[carmaul]

If anyone else wants to be general then I´m happy to step back and advice instead.

As for the list, either we go with Chemnitz, or something similar. I was thinking about Outriders but it´s tough to fit them in. Huntsmen was a really good idea, and quite cheap, so how about this?
-
Arch Lector, barded warhorse, HvyA, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, VH-Speculum
Captain, Pegasus, FPA, Charmed Shield, Sword of Might
lvl 2 Shadow Wizard, Warhorse, Power Stone
10 ICK, FC
6 Knights, Musician, Standard
4 DKG, Standard, Gleaming Pennant
10 Huntsmen
Stank

That looks good.  You still have 15 points left though.

Did you want the L2's mount to have barding?

[codger69]

I'm a fan of blocks of infantry, most threads always take a mobile force, which I do also, but we have no infantry in this list 

I'm worried we don't have any staying power and have to break on the charge, I just don't see against dwarfs how we will do that???

If people are happy with the list I'll happily keep on watching, just my thoughts

 

Niall

[carmaul]

The Dwarfs are ready.  They have started their pregame ale drinking (it's what gives them great leadership all around)

Forumite: What else does Team Empire need to be ready?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Bigger codpieces?

[carmaul]

Anyone here?

I need someone to be the Empire general and I need a list.

[Forumite]

I´ve been busy, stuff happening for some reason.

The missing 15p was for a Standard of Discipline. The Wizards horse is vanilla, no barding.

Yes, if the dorfs are ready then I think we can get this started. Now to get the men dwarf-forged codpieces!