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Author Topic: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot  (Read 5154 times)

soporific

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Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« on: April 09, 2012, 03:28:15 PM »
The steam tank now has random movement. Random movement says that you pivot, move the distance rolled and that no other pivot is allowed.  The steam tank is a lone chariot which normally is allowed to make as many pivots as it likes over the course of its turn. I am wondering if after the steam tank moves if it may then pivot a second time because of it being a lone model. This would allow it to fire its cannon in a direction that it did not travel that turn. The question is does the statement from the random movement rules about no other pivot being allowed only refer to when the model is actually moving its random distance or all the time? I think it is pretty clear that the no other pivot statement overrules the lone model rule but I thought I would get some other opinions.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 03:30:19 PM »
I think you should follow the random movement rules, and only make one pivot before moving.
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Offline Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 03:40:38 PM »
Random movement says that you pivot, move the distance rolled and that no other pivot is allowed. 

Yep, the random movement rule applies. However, the sequence is a bit different: It says (translated) that "when you move, pivot the model...Then roll the dice..." To me it sounds as if the pivot is part of the whole move, even though it does not count against the distance rolled (which would be tedious to measure).

That is important because otherwise a unit in its flank arc could not be charged.
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Offline Commander Bernhardt

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 05:10:57 PM »
I feel the writer has missed a lot in the re-written tank rules (why completely change it anyway??? there was nothing wrong with it)

there's no mention of the engineer anywhere. for exemple, when he's allowed to shoot, if he can stand and shoot, how he responds in CC,.. i'm guessing since he's a chariot now he can shoot anytime he wants except when in CC, can stand and shoot AND he gets an attack in close combat, how unfluffy...
the steel behemoth rule states the engineer can still move and fire. but what about the penalty for moving and firing, does it count?

when grinding enemies in base contact it doesn't state if these wounds count towards combat res. since it's done in the movement phase i'm guessing not. Seems that only the breath attack and the engi's one attack count for CC
not being able to shoot in the direction you want sucks to

btw where liable to magic again :(

and.. the artwork clearly  shows a gunpowder cannon being fired..... the nerd in me gets upset by that kind of thing  :icon_rolleyes:
same for the cannon which supposedly be so loud the entire stank is rattled, I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure released steam does not go KABOOM but heck, that's not dramatic enough
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Offline Warwhore

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:09:38 PM »
when grinding enemies in base contact it doesn't state if these wounds count towards combat res. since it's done in the movement phase i'm guessing not.

Surely the grind attacks carry over for CR. Under steel behemoth, the rules state that it can never pursue or overrun. A unit that has the option to pursue or overrun has just won combat, and winning a combat is determined solely through CR. So by stating that it may not pursue or overrun to me implies that the tank can win combats, and therefore the grind attacks carry over for CR.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 06:21:49 PM by Warwhore »
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 06:14:51 PM »
The old rules for the stank were whack...the only thing that saved it was the T10 which was in turn whack for enemies.....even Elite with S6 only wounded on 6+.

All your questions are answered in the brb, yes he gets the move penalty, yes he can attack in cc with one S3 attack etc. why? Because it says so in the book.

It is MUCH less endangered by magic now as the driver can dodge the pit of shades and the purple sun 50 % of the time now...Mucho Fantastico!

The stank is much better now as it can pretty reliable work even with 1 wound left, this wasn´t the case with last editions stank....oh AND it is cheaper now.

Offline Minsc

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 06:22:08 PM »
Quote
The stank is much better now as it can pretty reliable work even with 1 wound left, this wasn´t the case with last editions stank....oh AND it is cheaper now.

I wouldn't exactly call 1 wound "reliable" since you will pretty much automatically missfire. ;)
With thas said, at least trying to get 1 steampoint with 1 wound left now, won't autmatically mean the Stank is useless/dies.

Offline Dbunibe

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 06:54:42 PM »
I feel the writer has missed a lot in the re-written tank rules (why completely change it anyway??? there was nothing wrong with it)

there's no mention of the engineer anywhere. for exemple, when he's allowed to shoot, if he can stand and shoot, how he responds in CC,.. i'm guessing since he's a chariot now he can shoot anytime he wants except when in CC, can stand and shoot AND he gets an attack in close combat, how unfluffy...
the steel behemoth rule states the engineer can still move and fire. but what about the penalty for moving and firing, does it count?

when grinding enemies in base contact it doesn't state if these wounds count towards combat res. since it's done in the movement phase i'm guessing not. Seems that only the breath attack and the engi's one attack count for CC
not being able to shoot in the direction you want sucks to

btw where liable to magic again :(

and.. the artwork clearly  shows a gunpowder cannon being fired..... the nerd in me gets upset by that kind of thing  :icon_rolleyes:
same for the cannon which supposedly be so loud the entire stank is rattled, I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure released steam does not go KABOOM but heck, that's not dramatic enough

you actually answered most of your own questions.
there's no mention of the engineer because it's a chariot.  that means he shoots during the shooting phase, he attacks in the CC phase and he can stand and shoot.

steel behemoth says he can move and shoot so he can move and shoot, he still gets the negatives as it doesn't say he doesn't.

Grinding happens durring the movement phase as that's when the movement SP are spent.  They do not count for CC res as they don't say they do.

*edit here:  Note that the above is only a commentary on RAW.  It may not be what the writer intended, and we may see a FAQ or an erratta that changes things, but as written the rules are pretty clear.

@warwhore
you get the engineer's attacks, you get the steamgun, you get impact hits on the charge, you get the +1 CC res for charging.  The stank can be involved in CC along side another friendly unit.  All of those things can win you a combat and that's how your enemies can break.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 07:01:40 PM by Dbunibe »

Offline Commander Bernhardt

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 07:04:31 PM »
I realised I answered most of it. I wanted comfirmation.

I don't have the book with me right now but what happens when the tank tries to drive over an obstacle?
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Offline scarletsquig

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 07:18:24 PM »
Steam Tank is one of the better parts of the new book, I quite like the changes and the way the new misfire chart doesn't totally gimp the unit after it takes 2-3 wounds.

The potential to use the unit as a suicide bomber once it has drawn some fire is also fun!

Offline Delthos

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 07:26:37 PM »
I realised I answered most of it. I wanted comfirmation.

I don't have the book with me right now but what happens when the tank tries to drive over an obstacle?

As a chariot it takes a dangerous terrain test. If it fails it takes 1d6 wounds.
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Offline Minsc

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 07:32:13 PM »
I'm not to sold on the Stank myself, yet.
The quickest it can go is 3D6, and knowing myself I will never roll more than 5", especially not when I'm about to charge.

Offline Syn Ace

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 09:00:34 PM »
The potential to use the unit as a suicide bomber once it has drawn some fire is also fun!

I won a game in 4th edition this way. The last surviving dark elf warriors were almost impossible to run over (they had to fail an I test to be run over), but my STank blew up and killed them.
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Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2012, 09:31:37 PM »
Just eBayed myself an old metal steam tank. If nothing else I can put it in a sock and hit my opponent with it.

Have another on my watch list in case I think I need two.
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Offline tcklein

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 09:35:43 PM »
Just eBayed myself an old metal steam tank. If nothing else I can put it in a sock and hit my opponent with it.

Have another on my watch list in case I think I need two.

I got the metal one in a trade.  Anytime I carry it into the store I feel like I should have a permit.  That thing is heavy and pointy to the point of being deadly.

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 10:36:39 PM »
Excellent :biggriin:.
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Offline Athiuen

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2012, 10:43:25 PM »
The Engineer cannot stand and shoot as the hochland long rifle is now 'Slow to Fire'.
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Offline Minsc

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2012, 10:44:54 PM »
I wouldn't bother with the longrifle anyway. It's a very expensive uppgrade and the engineer will rarely hit on better than 5+ anyway.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Steam Tank - Random Movement & Pivot
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 12:39:57 PM »
The Engineer cannot stand and shoot as the hochland long rifle is now 'Slow to Fire'.

Yes he can still Stand and Shoot, but then needs to use his Repeater Pistol which is actually Quick to Fire!
(he has both if you opted for the HLR, so you need to choose which one he has to use)
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