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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Inner Circle Knights
« Last post by sedobren on Today at 06:59:53 PM »
I don't know if I just keep rolling bad for the armour saves, but I feel all my knights, IC included, have paper armour. Enemy shooting usually deals with them, or at least reduces their numbers so that they cannot accomplish what they've made for. Also they rarely can combo charge and rarely have twice the unit strength, so their charges result in FBIGO, which is usually very good for the opponent.

Maybe I play too much against Dwarfs. Against Orcs & Skaven my IC have won games.

This is one reason I consider - at last - painting a unit of DGK (bear riders). At least they stay effective even after losing two (or up to five) wounds.

-Zyg

the fact is that a d6 has a pretty small range of results, so even with a 2+ armor save, a smallish unit of 5-6 is probably going to lose one, expensive, knight on average to simple bows. Units like that really leave a very tight room for maneuver and to absorb losses. Look at demigryphs in comparison, they are T4, have a 2+ still and 3 wounds. So for little over the cost of 2 inner circle knights you get almost 3 knights' worth of attacks and resilience, a better performance in prolonged fights, fear, the ability to shrug off random wounds from chaff (that would kill a knight thus costing you pts and reducing the unit's effectiveness. They are also better targets for enhancements (since they stay more on the table).
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it was a 2000 pts game. It's not impossible with equipment, the three heroes fits just shy of the 1000 pts limit; I think he did not put the ward on the vampire dragon but i also never (never!) rolled a 6 to wound with my monster slaying duke over 3 rounds of combat. Even if the vampire would not fit, VC have the terrorgheists which is  incredibly powerful and has wailing dirge like the mortis engine. For the price of one kitted out vampire lord on dragon i think they can fit 2 terrorgheist as rare choices.

The unit that surprised me as not that good were vargheist, they got smoked by the errant knights kn the first charge on turn one. Zombies were incredibly resilient, being close to the BsB and to the necro for reanimating them. Grave guards held after 2 lances and a damsel with the magic lance and doppleganger spell charged and killed like 9 of them. Next turn they were almost back in full size and won the combat.
The dragon was actually the closest i got to winning. I really managed not to roll a single 6 to wound over 3 rounds of combat. I would have won the left flank and charged the mortis/grave guard square on the side

The main problem of the necro+mortis is that VC lose the only "wekness" they have, being slow. With just one engine they could have M6-8 Troops!
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The Brush and Palette / Re: Grand army of the free city of Altdorf
« Last post by Count James on Today at 06:02:03 PM »
Your army is progressing apace! Really nice looking units and they're going to look awesome on the battlefield! :D
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Empire of Man feedback
« Last post by PowerSeries on Today at 05:51:16 PM »
Instead of trying to change pistols which will affect the rest of the armies, I would rather see Pistoliers gain Reserve Move, so they can move, shoot  pistols and move again.

Now this is unlikely, but if you really wanted to capture the Reiter's Cavalcade manouver, allow the reserve move to charge the enemy if they shot them and inflicted a wound.  That'd be a cool feature and make up for not having Fusilade.  This is a cool option that the Lion Rampent game allows and I would love to see it.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: If you can't beat them join them.
« Last post by Minsc on Today at 05:49:12 PM »
Re the Demi character in state troops idea, especially a bsb isn’t the issue is that because of the base size a lot of the time you are going to have 4 enemy models who can attack your 3w t4 guy? Clearly they can be relatively tough but there is a huge risk of them just being killed out especially if the idea is to fight multiple rounds and grind them down.

Assuming 25mm bases, its one model more (from 3 to 4) that can allocate attacks against the BSB. Thats not really a big issue. In return the BSB will have +1 W and Save, plus 3 Demigryph-attacks. Its well worth it imo.
Most of the time my opponent would ignore the T4 2+ BSB and go for the much squishier Greatswords or State Troops for easy CR anyway
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Empire of Man feedback
« Last post by Tiberius on Today at 05:35:26 PM »
I'm very curious what "editions" are going to be like for the Old World.  But without a doubt we need a massive rework.

I agree with all your points, I'm surprised neither of you mentioned Pistoliers.  Pistoliers and Warrior Priests are my two favorite things about the Empire, so the Old World has been a rough experience so far.  I take it as a personal insult that they lowered the Warrior Priests to Ld. 7, that should be their defining characteristic!

Pistoliers: remove impetuous, bring them back to 7 ld.  Make Pistols to be "move and shoot".  I'd be content then.  I'd really love to bring back "Fusilade", but I don't want to be too greedy.

Love the idea for a simple common helmet for a +1 for Empire Characters.  I use to take an on Foot Elector count with Armor of Meteoric Iron and a Holy Relic, and be able to take quick a bit a punishment.  If we could get the Holy Relic back, maybe limit it to on foot only, that would be awesome.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by The Peacemaker on Today at 05:12:42 PM »
Well, I respect your commitment to make state troops work. Lol. Let us know how your battles go. Maybe you'll find a build and tactic that works.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by drweir4 on Today at 05:03:04 PM »
I think the challenge with lots of slow foot wizards at lv2 protected by slow foot infantry is that it’s going to be pretty easy for 1 enemy lv4 to shut them all down. Lets say it’s one of the ones with +1 to dispel which is about half the time lol and then you are still only going to get off probably under half of your spells

I believe empire magic spam can work but the most powerful spells are often the buffing ones not the damage ones. I’d do it with 3 lv4 on mounts in an all cav list (including outriders to help with babysitting)
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Empire of Man feedback
« Last post by drweir4 on Today at 04:57:51 PM »
Yeah I mean I agree with almost all of that too. It could do with a ground up redo but that is unlikely so I want to try to nudge it in a more positive direction

Re the runefang I ignored it because without making other changes to characters it’s hard to know where it should end up. Clearly it’s unusable and to be worth 100 points would have to ve something like always hits on a 2+ and auto wounds and no saves of any type allowed and even then I probably wouldn’t take it (I think a lot of the empire weapons seem to suffer for having to consider a doppelgänger wizard)
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Empire of Man feedback
« Last post by The Peacemaker on Today at 04:51:10 PM »
4pts per model for hw/s state troops doesn't feel wrong at all in this game with the rules that Empire has.

Empire iconic infantry was always about the regiment system along with other army synergies. The fact they gave other armies access to Regiment system means there are now direct points comparisons costs between those books. Regiment rules doesn't do much in game so it's not worth much but they are pricing state troops as if it is worth something.

----------------

Here are my thoughts on book:
First, it's so bad that it needs a total rework. It needs so many rules and points adjustments that it can't be fixed with an faq or errata.

Practically everything in the book needs roughly a 25% point drop except for Demigryphs.
And price the points for mounts appropriately. 16pts for barded warhorse regardless of character? This book wasn't done first, it was done last and rushed by someone who just didn't care/low integrity.

Hold the Line rule on commanders is what I think they wanted people to use in their regiment blocks to prevent panic, but characters are too expensive with bad armour/not enough wounds, and only 2 attacks! A glorified champion for 8-10x the points.

Magic items need an armour upgrade that gives +1 armour for like 10pts, and common so it can be taken on many characters. I wouldn't even restrict it to infantry only or anything like that considering other armies get good items like that. Then people might take weapons other than a shield.

Warrior priests need rework. Prayers are janky and inconsistent. War Alter sucks without better armour options. Why the heck doesn't it have a ward save?

Runefang needs AP 5 to be worth 100pts.

General type leading army grants:
General as Empire as grants 0-1 greatswords in core.
Grand Master grants 0-1 Inner Cirlce as Core.
Warrior Priest grants 0-1 Flagellants as Special.

And simplify thr flagellants ward save. 5+ ward vs non-magical, no conditions. Why the heck does strength 5 increase their ward save when it's about feeling no pain? If anything, lower strength attacks should grant a higher ward save.
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