Ok so this is a bit of a rant and I am not sure how many people are interested in Epic (Epic40k), but spuing this anyway.
So what got me into table top gaming was the original Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine (v1) games. Someone sold me everything they had with White Dwarf articles and it was about the greatest thing I had seen up to that point. I loved the background of the Horus Heresy, and the detail of the system using such small minis. My friends and I played the hell out of this game. We played such big games that they took several nights to play out.
Along comes 2nd edition Space Marine along with its sister game Titan Legions. These two games were huge in their day, and actually part of the Big 3 alongside 40k and WFB. I still remember walking into gaming stores and seeing tables of games in progress involving huge armies and titans. It was pretty glorious. While the game system was similar to the first edition, it was modified to speed some things up, and a lot of models were released during this time.
Then came the infamous Warhammer Epic 40,000. The system was completely overhauled and about killed Epic. It was just not the game players wanted, and even I rejected it at the time. Then followed was the great ebay firesale where you could buy the main starter set for $17 and blister packs for $2. I figured with prices that low I might as well get it, and upon taking a closer look at it, realized it was a really interesting game with interesting mechanics, and in some ways superior to its predecessors. However, its not what gamers wanted.
So Epic was dormat for awhile until Jervis Johnson started Fanatic, and decided to take another shot at Epic, and was opening up the game design to fans by starting a forum to provide ideas and feedback. I actually emailed Jervis my thoughts on Epic since I was a fan from the beginning, what I thought were the pros and cons of the previous editions were, and what I thought should go into the new edition. So my shock he replied back, and that started a little bit of a back and forth, as well as my participation on the playtesting forum.
So there were two camps in the playtesting group - veterans of early editions, and newer players who didn't play epic previously. The veterans were disappointed with Jervis's ideas for the new game as they more followed Epic40k as opposed to Space Marine v2. I actually argued if you just re-released SM2 in its original forum it would have been popular, but as a game designer they seem to want to outdo themselves, and he pushed his Epic Armageddon. I was actually so irritated with the name of the game because at this point Armageddon was a big story in 40k for years and I was just sick of it and wanted to move on. But anyway, most of us veterans were pushed aside by the new fanboys, and I predicted the game wouldn't be successful for a number of reasons, and eventually Fanatic/Specialist games collapsed.
EpicA is still popular for a lot of players, but every version of the game has its fans.
So recently GW announced a new version of Epic called Legions Imperialis to follow their Adeptus Titanicus. And guess what? It shares much of the same concepts as 2nd edition does, which we argued for back in the early development days of EpicA.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/31/legions-imperialis-core-concepts-this-is-how-the-new-game-plays/This is probably possible since Jervis left GW. I assume if he was still around he would have come up with a 'new' system. One of the lessons I learned during that time was how important it seemed to designers to come up with a system they respected as opposed to listening to what players wanted. Even if 2nd edition is the least technical of all the editions, it was still by far the favorite, and if I were introducing someone to the Epic universe I would start with that edition because its so easy to teach (I still have all my editions of Epic btw).
Anyway, I have read comments on various sites and see veteran players excited for this. Its just crazy to think had Jervis done this 20 years ago, it probably could have hooked more players and kept the game around for a long time. I was so bitter over those EpicA days. Even seeing some of the concepts in the book on army building were actually MY IDEAS. I can't say I love everything they are doing with Legions Imperialis, but its obvious they are following the early roots of the game when it was the most popular. I suspect we will see a lot more coming for Epic over the next few years, especially with the eventual release of Xenos armies.
