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Age of Sigmar / Re: Neat Write Up of Age of Sigmars Launch
« Last post by GamesPoet on Today at 04:27:14 PM »
The rapidity of the various changes struck me at the time as though there had been limited or poor planning or both.

I'm glad the effort was made to write this history of that time up.  The further along a person goes, the more difficult the memory of such happenings could be, and having this to help recall is good.
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Age of Sigmar / Re: Neat Write Up of Age of Sigmars Launch
« Last post by Gankom on Today at 03:35:13 PM »
Yeah, it was such a shit show and its interesting to see it laid out step by step. I particularly appreciated a reminder of how "quick" a lot of it was wrapped up or moved on.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by commandant on Today at 01:35:54 PM »
Quote from: Minsc on Today at 12:03:53 PM
Any competent general with a half-decent list would either eliminate those Wizards without too much effort (or keep them so far away that they can't do anything), assuming it's an army that can do so. Against some armies without shooting (like WoC and VC) they'll likely perform better.


Lets look at a half-decent list with a (shall we say a reasonably competent general)

Quote from: Minsc on Today at 12:03:53 PM

You bring up speed yet the wizards themselves are limited to their cast range. It's not like skirmishers and fast cav with ranged weapons need to be able to charge you or even be near you, just being within their range is enough. If your Wizards are out of range they can't cast, and I'll just shoot at something else = it's a win.

They are limited by their casting range certainly but their casting range is 15inches.   So their movement is 10 inches and their range is 15 inches so they have quite a large range.    Also they have 360 degree LOS so they can be very close to your units as long as they can stay outside of the charging/firing arc.    Skirmishers are sort of bad because they also have 360 degree LOS but most fast cav are Open Order and therefore their charge/firing arc can be avoided.

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Imperial Hunt [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Characters [998 pts] ++

General of the Empire [353 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Imperial Griffon
- Giant Blade
- The White Cloak
- Healing Potion

Grand Master [261 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- Barded Warhorse
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Captain of the Empire [94 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Barded Warhorse

Wizard Lord [290 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Pegasus
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Arcane Familiar
- Armour of Tarnus
- Wizard's Staff
- Daemonology

++ Core Units [514 pts] ++

5 Empire Knights [122 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Great weapons
- Heavy armour
- Drilled (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

5 Empire Knights [127 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Great weapons
- Heavy armour
- Drilled (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion) [Charmed Shield]
- Musician

10 Empire Archers [95 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Fire & Flee
- Scouts
- Marksman (champion)

10 Empire Archers [85 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Scouts
- Marksman (champion)

10 Empire Archers [85 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Scouts
- Marksman (champion)

++ Special Units [487 pts] ++

5 Inner Circle Knights [176 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Inner Circle Preceptor (champion) [Charmed Shield]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

5 Inner Circle Knights [171 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Inner Circle Preceptor (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

2 Demigryph Knights [140 pts]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Demigryph Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

---

So this is a 2000 point list that was posted on this site.   What is there in this list that can go after the peggy-mages?

The level 4 on a peggy would be an option.   This is likely the most scary thing in this list to the peggy mages.    The general on the imperial griffon would also be a concern.   Finally the archers could be concerning but that is about it.

So what can we do about this?   If you fly the two peggy-mages together then the level 4 has the problem of getting into range of one of the level 4s in order to blast the other one.   This is where the fact that you are pushing your spells through the magic defense of a level 4 45% percent of the time.

It also seems likely that the one of the mage on a peggy or the captain on the griffon would need to be lost to get to 1500 points.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by Minsc on Today at 12:03:53 PM »
Quote from: commandant on Today at 10:42:19 AM
Skirmishers or fastcav

Both of these are much slower than the peggy-mage.   It is one thing to say that.   Firing skirmishers (if they have quick shot) are still likely hitting the peggy-mage on 5+ (long range) or even 6+.   With BS5 or so this could be a concern but these are fairly rare.   For shooting you would need to be concerned more about characters with the Dragon Bow or that sort of nonsense.   I'm not sure what type of normal BS shooting is very concerning.

Like if you consider empire archers.   They have 6 shots (say there are six of them which seems like a decent number for skirmishers) which would do on average 2 hits and 1 wound.   That means they need 3 rounds of uninterrupted shooting to kill the peggy wizard.

You bring up speed yet the wizards themselves are limited to their cast range. It's not like skirmishers and fast cav with ranged weapons need to be able to charge you or even be near you, just being within their range is enough. If your Wizards are out of range they can't cast, and I'll just shoot at something else = it's a win.

Empire Archers are quite literally one of the worst ranged skirmishing units in the game when it comes to damage output, they're not a good yardstick. There are a ton of BS4 skirmishers who will hit your Wizards on 3+ or 4+ if long range. Heck, it doesn't even have to be skirmishers, just regular ranked up elves with bows will hit on 5+ at worst (-1 move, -1 long range) unless you're in cover. Then you have various units that can march and shoot, got quickshot, don't suffer penalties, etc. etc.

Any competent general with a half-decent list would either eliminate those Wizards without too much effort (or keep them so far away that they can't do anything), assuming it's an army that can do so. Against some armies without shooting (like WoC and VC) they'll likely perform better.

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Well you do have to do something about that large slow moving unit of state troops because that is where all the points in this list are.

Sure, but the things that is most capable of dealing with large units of infantry are usually not the same thats the most capable of dealing with chaff, because thats essentially what your Pegasus-Wizards are.
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Age of Sigmar / Re: Neat Write Up of Age of Sigmars Launch
« Last post by GamesPoet on Today at 11:51:47 AM »
A reminder of the chaotic mess that occurred back then. I recall my own distaste of the situation, and beyond the loss of the order associated with WFB. However, the situation that happened did little to encourage taking up the system for many, and how GW managed to get through it seems astounding.

A good read, thank you for posting the link.  Looking forward to the next, so please post a link when seeing such, thanks!
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by PowerSeries on Today at 11:41:20 AM »
So I played a game against wood Elves.

The way watchers or blocks of glade guard can definitely delete a mage if they get a clear shot at them.  Heck they deleted 10 spearmen a turn, as well as my knight block.


Also of my mage can move 10" and then cast a 16" spell, they can target you mage as long as you are within 26".  Assuming they want to be in that location afterwards. So I'm not sure you count as safe from magic missiles.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: All the magical nonsense
« Last post by commandant on Today at 10:42:19 AM »
Yes but the IC-knights are not there to Loner-Protect the Pegasus-Wizards in the main sense of the term.   The mobility is there to protect the wizards.

I have looked at these examples but

Quote from: Minsc on April 30, 2024, 11:17:30 PM

My own magic missiles, skirmishers or fastcav (esp. with any sort of ranged weapons), various warmachines, any unit with ranged weapons which aren't Ponderous, etc, etc.


Magic missiles:

Your own magic missles are indeed a concern.   But your own magic missiles need to draw LOS (which could not be that easy if your wizard is in a unit) and get through my magic defense of the level 4 (most likely).   Certainly magic missiles are a concern.   However magic missles that are a concern also have a range that is equal to the peggy mage.   For example it should be reasonably easy to keep the peggy mage out of range of other mages who are casting summoning while still casting summoning against their units.

Skirmishers or fastcav

Both of these are much slower than the peggy-mage.   It is one thing to say that.   Firing skirmishers (if they have quick shot) are still likely hitting the peggy-mage on 5+ (long range) or even 6+.   With BS5 or so this could be a concern but these are fairly rare.   For shooting you would need to be concerned more about characters with the Dragon Bow or that sort of nonsense.   I'm not sure what type of normal BS shooting is very concerning.

Like if you consider empire archers.   They have 6 shots (say there are six of them which seems like a decent number for skirmishers) which would do on average 2 hits and 1 wound.   That means they need 3 rounds of uninterrupted shooting to kill the peggy wizard.

Warmachines (certainly ones that do multi wound) could a serious difficulty.   Hence my later thought that I need cannons for counter battery fire.
All non Ponderous BS shooting is only hitting on a 6+ (if they moved and long range).   Most is Str 3 or so.

Certainly there is some concern but the Peggy mages can be hidden behind the archer screens at the start of the battle.

Quote from: Minsc on April 30, 2024, 11:17:30 PM
They're expensive and annoying T3 models (they're not T4, Pegasus does not grant +1T) with 3 Wounds and no save.
In your original list, they would be the first things I'd target and get rid of.
What else am I gonna shoot at? Your IC-knights or large slow unit of State Troops?

Well you do have to do something about that large slow moving unit of state troops because that is where all the points in this list are.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: What’s up with War Machines?
« Last post by Footpatrol2 on Today at 09:03:20 AM »
Placing the 5+ ward save from elementalism on your high priority war machines discourages the opponent to kill the warmachines via shooting. You can also use the priest of sigmar prayer one.

The opponent might not even shoot at the war machine with the 5+ ward on it but that also means the spell is doing it's job.

@zyg
Since old world came out my gaming group got a lot bigger. In two different gaming groups now. So it's pretty much the full spectrum. There is a lot of elf players thou.
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: What’s up with War Machines?
« Last post by Zygmund on Today at 06:51:02 AM »
Quote from: Footpatrol2 on April 30, 2024, 06:32:16 PM
I've been taking a block of 20 crossbowmen. Typically I face elves and brets and ong. What have you been taking zyg?

I'm practically playing with a 6th ed army, so focus on maneuver, cavalry attacks and magic. I don't take more than one unit of CB's, and try to place it on a hill to minimize width.

I love the HBVG for its small footprint and ability to turn around before shooting. But it's just so unreliable, easily killed and often left without good targets because of the short range and all the things taking place on the battlefield.

My regular opponents include OnG (Nigh Gobbos!), Dwarfs (both shooty and melee orientated), and some Brets, DE, CD, what have you got. I also play OnG (Night Gobbos!) and Dwarfs myself.

-Zyg
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The Old World Cometh Again !!! / Re: Inner Circle Knights
« Last post by Sir Falo on Today at 05:54:30 AM »
I run IC over Demigryphs. I have run two IC of 6 and that works fine.

What makes me take IC over Demigryphs is that they can act way more independent than Demigryphs and that they are way faster. LD9 veterans makes it so you dont need a Grand master as a baby sitter.  Demigryphs are 3 wounds away from a ld8 panic test, and with people are taking more multiple wounds attacks, you are going to roll panic. IC are basicly one of two/three regiments you have that are not dependent on your characters Ld support.

That gives me way more options of what characters that you can take. Witch hunters, chapter master or captain on pegasus, horse or demigryphs can work along IC (the only way to use Witch hunter in my opinion). Ulric priest are ok with them. I however I like the captain on Griffon. He is a great support for two 6 man IC regiments. Not too expensive, can charge things behind the enemy lines (like support wizards or the like) and terror is great support for you knights charge, they remove ranks and is close order. All for 190 pts.

IC also have rules that makes them good in their own right. Drilled is an amazing rule. 21" march and just having a 2 man front makes them alot easier to move around and get good positions. If you are in a flank were you are hard counters, Drilled gives you the ability to change you flank.

Stubborn is a must have. If you knights fucks up a charge your plans are not just destroyed. You can use them as a sacrifice to a Dragon. And with Ld9. They can hold the line if you need them to.

A more funny build if to take Wizards hat on the IC champion. Ld9 reroll makes stupid not a thing and hammer hand works ok. Just keep away from the enemys lvl 4.

6 man are the best formation in my opinion. Works well with drilled.

An example for a cavalry formation I use:
616 Pts
Captain of the Empire [190 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Griffon, Charmed Shield)

6 Inner Circle Knights [213 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Shields, Full plate armour, Stubborn, Inner Circle Preceptor (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

6 Inner Circle Knights [213 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Shields, Full plate armour, Stubborn, Inner Circle Preceptor (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
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