Topic: Imperial Guard help!

[Aldaris]

Thats true Aldaris, but my main opponant will drag out measuring each tiny amount of cover to determine that his men still get cover from a brick or something.  Best to avoid such arguements by having a no save at all type gun.

Oh dear. That kind of player...

I was origionally planning on having a medusa and a collossus to supply my long range battery fire.  This would be best of both worlds really.  The problem is they are only available through forge world, so costs are high!

Good mix, top it off with some kind of MBT (or two in a squadron) and that's a nice support section right there, albeit, as you said, an expensive one. Oh, and to get some more quasi-artillery: 1, preferably 2 mortar HW support squads. you pay 120 for two, and that's 6 mortars. You'll love them. They may not look like much on paper, but they're cheap, don't need LOS and are therefore hugely annoying.

[McKnight]

And they have a nice range and can sit on an objective!

Mortars are awesome!

[Crimsonsphinx]

The other choices were two bare bones Russes,  No sponsons, just a turret and frontal bolter.  Need to save points on the tanks really.  I really like the idea of the Punisher, but on a very rough estimate its probably not very good against anything in cover, and its debatable if its actually better than a regular russ in the open.  The one with the twinlinked autocannons is interesting, but a hydra has these and is a lot cheaper.

I like the look of the Manticore too.  Three blast templates at high strengh look very promising. The deathstrike on the other hand seems unwieldy and not very practical.

With the 3 battalions I was going to buy, I was planning on making 3 mortar teams, 3 autocannons and 3 missile launcher, using the two direct fire ones in my squads while having the mortars as a seperate weapons team.

[McKnight]

Standard russes are nothing to laugh at either, they are cheap and without the sponsons they are also mobile!

My boss told me how he finally got to use the punisher. He was up against Space marines and he said that it basically tore through a squad each turn. With that amount of shots, the SM player is bound to fail saves.
Also another good thing about it is, it doesnt have the potential of hitting your own troops. Which is quite nice sometimes!

[Crimsonsphinx]

The Punisher becomes very expensive with heavy bolter sponsons and a stubber in the turret.  All of which you want if your going to bother with his model.  You can nearly end up with two nilla russes for one upgraded punisher.

[McKnight]

Yes it is expensive! But hey its not all about min maxing you know;)

Try it out and see what you think...... when you get the army, that is

[Crimsonsphinx]

I beleive prices go up 1st of June as well ,whcih wont help me buy a guard army. 

Its still on the cards, but I suspect it may take me till the tail end of this year to raise the funds now.

[Raulmichile]

The biggest issue I have is tank busting armour 14 from range.  Monoliths and land raiders for example, are units that are difficult in the former, and dangerous in the later, to get close to.

Have you ever tried a HW squad full of lascannons receiveing the "Bring it down" order making the unit twin linked?  Even with "Fire on my target" order you can reduce cover saves by 1.  Something to consider.

[Aldaris]

I would not advise using a HW squad full of lascannons. Too vulnerable and not flexible enough. For a pretty similar price you could have a Vendetta. Pure HW squads should be reserved for cheapo heavies like mortars.
What I would advise using however is using Lascannons in regular guard squads, without the addition of a special. 4-6 guard squads with Autocannons/ML, 4-6 with Lascannons. That's pretty frightening, can beneift from orders, can split fire a lot better and will never die due to a single salvo/artillery round.

[Crimsonsphinx]

I generally dont do pure anti tank weapons in infantry squads, as the rest of the unit stands around helpless, or the gun is fired at something that isn't really useful.

Its a shame the old 2nd ed rule allowing special/heavy weapons to target more relevant units has never been brought back.

Autocannons are more or less the same as missile launchers in application, both being good against infantry and light tanks.  So why the preference for autocannons?  Is it all on the cost?

I think heavy weapon teams should take either anti infantry, or flexible weapons, simply because as guard you are likely to have tanks carrying anti tank firepower.

[Midaski]

I had a brief few games with my IG last year, in a mad few weeks 

I loaded a squad or two with a Lascannon, a Plasma Gun and gave the Sgt a Plasma Pistol. That was enough to do some damge to some Eldar tanks stuff.

Surely you can equip individual squads with different types of target in mind.

[Burgermeiser]

You'll definitely need artillery, and armor. Especially armor! include plenty of Leman Russ's and Chimeras in your force. I would use the Armored Fist doctrine. Strike fast and hard. That's the way I'd do it.

[Aldaris]

You'll definitely need artillery, and armor. Especially armor! include plenty of Leman Russ's and Chimeras in your force. I would use the Armored Fist doctrine. Strike fast and hard. That's the way I'd do it.

"Armored Fist doctrine"?

[Valetus]

I generally dont do pure anti tank weapons in infantry squads, as the rest of the unit stands around helpless, or the gun is fired at something that isn't really useful.

It is actually one of the better roles for the guard squads as the tanks (due to big bugs) are better at smashing up infantry and if you are firing their lascannons at other tanks it is a waste of points with that battlecannon. Also consider that the guardsmen are some ablative armour for the antitank guns, a very important role in the guard army...

But seriously the prices are too much now. This is why I am now totaly constrained to human armies, buying up other companies models and converting them with parts bought from mates/ebay or maybe the rare GW purchase. The tanks are pretty unaffordavle too, I mean they take about 5 hours pay at the minimum wage (UK). This I think is the real problem with the list as otherwise whatever you chose seems to work well en mass.

[Mathi Alfblut]

Some guard squads with lascannons have their uses. I can confirm that. Especially if placed to deliver enfilading fire and with the Company commander nearby to give those orders. 

[McKnight]

Actually, the battlecannon is a fairly good antitank gun, being ordnance.
S8 with two dice to penetration where you take the highest? Yes please. Of course it has problems with AV14, but thats where the vendettas show up.

I agree on the prices. They are really expensive for such a large army!

[Mogsam]

Since this is an IG thread I thought i'd post here. Here's a list i've written for 1,000 points. No idea if it's good, mostly models I just like or have conversion ideas for.

Command Team. Vox Caster, Carapace Armour, Medic, Sniper Rifle, 2 Bodyguards, Krak Grenades, Chimera 200 - The krak grenades are because I had 5 points left over.

Veteran Squad. Vox Caster, Grenadiers, Chimera, 2 flamers and a bigger flamer?  190

Veteran Squad, Vox Caster, Grenadiers, Chimera, 3 plasma guns? 205

3 Armoured Sentinels. 1 x Plasma Cannon, 1 x Lascannon, 1 x Heavy Flamer, Smoke Launchers. 220 - Not actually sure what smoke launchers do. The description is too look them up in a book I don't have. Figure they make it harder to shoot them?

Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armour, 185

Any critiscms? I imagine their will be!

[Aldaris]

Yes, there will. Give me a few minutes...
 

[McKnight]

Your... Leman russ is good...


Your command squad needs work though. And maybe your heavy flamer sentinel...

But I wont go into detail, I imagine Aldaris will do that

[Aldaris]

First off: stuff like Carapace, Vox casters and other nice accessories can be modelled without actually using them ingame, as long as you tell your opponent. I've never had a problem with that.

Command squad: get rid of Carapace, Vox Caster, bodyguards, medic and krak grenades. Most of this stuff is only useful if your guys leave their tank and get personal, which they're not meant (and not equipped) to do.
If you want a sniper CCS, get snipers, not just one. A much better build:

***************  1 HQ  *************** 

Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 4 x Veteran with Sniper rifle
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 125

This squad does what you want: give orders and lend some fire support via sniper rifles and the Chimeras heavy weapons.

Veterans: Flamers are a waste of those guys BS of 4. Sure, it's possible, but not optimal in my opinion. Also, Grenadiers doctrine... oh well. Go for it if you want, I consider it to be a waste of points. It can be useful for your plasma vets though when their guns overheat. I'd propose this for the vets, grenadiers included. I'd seriously consider dropping it at least on the melta squad though:

Veteran Squad
- Grenadiers
- 3 x Veteran with Plasma gun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy flamer
 - - - > 200

Veteran Squad
- Grenadiers
- 3 x Veteran with Meltagun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy flamer
 - - - > 185

Note that those Chimeras have Heavy Flamers as hull mounted guns instead of Heavy Bolters, as you'll be using them more aggressively.

Sentinels. If you use three single ones that's three pretty easy kill points, if you use them in a squad their weapons loadout contradicts. My proposal: take a squad of three unarmored ones and scout or flank them.
Smoke launchers can be used for one turn, they prevent any shooting from you, but give you a cover save.
Soo, my proposed Sentinel squad:

3 Scout Sentinels
- 2 x Multi-laser
- 1 x Autocannon
 - - - > 110

Cheap, cheerful, annyoing, expendable. Come in flanking and shoot some tank in the ass. If they survive, repeat.
If you really, really want to go for armored sentinels, I'd propose something like this:

3 Armoured Sentinels
- 3 x Lascannon
- Camo netting
 - - - > 240

Too expensive for my taste, but they have a clear job, tank hunting, and they get a 3+ save when in cover. So: plop 'em into cover and blaze away. In a pinch you can engage infantry (make sure they have no powerfists or stuff like that!!) and tank them almost indefinitely.

Leman Russ: almost good, but get rid of the extra armor. Not really needed nowadays. You want that Russ as a firebase, not a cavalry tank.

Extra stuff to consider:

a small infantry platoon. For starters, one command squad, two infantry squads, a mortar squad. Something like this:

Infantry Platoon
   + Command Squad
      - Platoon Commander
      - 3 x Guardsman with Flamer
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Heavy Weapons Squad
      - 3 x Mortar team
 - - - > 225

A cheapo command squad to give some orders, 3 flamers will make a dent into anything coming too close. 2 Infantry squads with autocannons, some long range fire vs. transports and some bodies. Never a bad thing. 3 Mortars. Annoying and good. Those are Gold for their points.

Hope that helped!

[Mogsam]

Cheers Aldaris, that's a pretty comphrensive list! I understand a bit better now! Got alot to consider 

Apparently we are playing cityfight if that makes a difference. The armoured sentinels advice is my favourate, White Dwarf taught me kill points are bad! I understand why the command squad is bad but does anyone else feel that sending a commander into a warzone with a whole 4 buddies is a bit odd? Kinda feels like you're wasting a tank doing that.