Topic: 8th Edition O&G

[phillyt]

Well, things look really, REALLY good in the O&G front.  I made a nice little list at 3000 which uses alot of my favorite things.  Here it is:

Black Orc Warboss - Dawnstone, Uliks akrit axe, 4+ wardsave armor, boar
Black Orc Big Boss - BSB, 2+ AS magic armor
Goblin Great Shaman - 4th level, Staff of Baduum
Goblin Shaman - 2nd level - Staff of Sneaky Stealin
Goblin Hero - enchanted shield, Martogs best basha

Core:
35 Night Goblins - full command, 3 fanatics, spears, netters - Goblin Hero
35 Night Goblins - full command, 3 fanatics, spears, netters - Great Shaman
35 Night Goblins - full command, 3 fanatics, spears, netters - Goblin Shaman
40 Night Goblin archers in horde formation

Special:
16 Black Orcs - full command - Generals
23 Black Orcs - full command - BSB
6 Bolt Throwers with bullies
2 Rock Lobbas
Squig Herd - 18 squig, 12 Night goblins - run 6 wide

Rare:
Giant

Yes, piles of shooting, heaps of infantry, nasty CC units.  This army will blast with magic and missles, forcing the enemy to engage the blocks, which will then pound the depleted units into the dirt!  Fanatics will wreck havoc on the enemy, resulting in fun and carnage!

WAAAGH ORCS!

Phil

[Fandir Nightshade]

Is it smart to place your General on a boar?

He won´t receive any lookout sir rolls.

[phillyt]

The only thing he needs to worry about is a cannon.  Look out sir isn't as big an issue as people are making it out to be.  If I play Empire, I will take him off the boar.

But the main reason is I have the Gorbad model and it is badass.  I am looking for fun here!

Phil

[Fandir Nightshade]

Well, all artillery pieces as you can place the mortar /stone thrower template right on his head, yes you won´t hit as many regulars but perhaps strike with a surgical cut the generals head off. All magic templates included in here as all spells that allow to single him out.

Well I only ask because I have big issues if I should place my heroes/lord choices on horsies and stick them into infantry as I used to.

Without your generals leadership I think your army has great issues. With him around they should be fine.

[phillyt]

Generally speaking, I wouldn't put too many heroes on horseback in infantry.  But like I said, I doubt you will find the Look out sir problem as big as you think.

Phil

[Fandir Nightshade]

Generally speaking, I wouldn't put too many heroes on horseback in infantry.  But like I said, I doubt you will find the Look out sir problem as big as you think.

Phil

I have to play a couple of 8th edition games.

Well I play dwarfs for the most part so my fears are justified.....and perhaps Aldaris Skaven.

[phillyt]

If you think about it too much, you lose all sorts of fun things, like minotaur in ungor or gor units.  No look out sir.

Just play what you like.

Phil

[Obi]

6 bolt throwers is your idea of fun phil? Really?
Are you going for 3 cannons, 3 mortars and 2 helstorms ar 3k for empire or something? And 4 pigeon bombs?

Apart from that I like it.

[phillyt]

Hey, I am the guy who thinks all Empire armies begin with 2 cannons.  You need a cannon for every 1000 points.  I would take 3 cannon and 3 mortar minimum.

Nobody blinks at dropping a dragon or a greater demon.  Both of those are more than those 3 cannon hands down.  I am not one to buy into peoples concepts of degrees of cheese.  Make your list and have fun!

Phil

[Obi]

Hey, don't get me wrong man! I'm just saying that 6 is quite a lot

[Shadowlord]

I am not one to buy into peoples concepts of degrees of cheese.

I normally think your lists smell of cheese but this is not it, not under 8th rule anyway.

I use 3 Scrappies, 4 Gorgers, a Hunter and a Bruiser with the magic carpet, which are enough to counter most machine heavy lists.

Depending on the scenario and the amount of terrain, I would love to fight you with my Ogres.

[phillyt]

Would be fun!  Ogres wading through fanatics or getting eaten by squigs, then gobling piles of goblin flesh.  Bloody and tasty!

Phil

[Warlord]

I too think too many people are overreacting regarding the character on mount issue.
Most people in 7th wanted to do it 'because it looked good'. Funny how a lot of those people are now shying away...

That is a lot of Bolt Throwers, however generally in 7th 2 for every 1000 pts was reasonable, and this uses those proportions.

I'm more wondering what your strategy is with those weird sized Black Orc units.

And also wondering why you don't have some cheap wolf riders or spider riders to start denying ranks or anti-enemy warmachines.

[Shadowlord]

anti-enemy warmachines.

Why not use your own machines to crack those?

[Warlord]

anti-enemy warmachines.

Why not use your own machines to crack those?

Because I imagine there will be juicier targets.

And because Goblin Bolt Throwers can't hit a brick shithouse at 50 feet.

[phillyt]

The army will sit and shoot the enemy while the troops move forward.  They will then pile into and crush the enemy units in HTH after their ranks are depleted.  The night goblin units will add the nasty fanatics to their depletion ability, then use their much larger size and 3 ranks of spears plus the -1 to the S of the enemy to grind out a win. 

Few armies will run as many blocks as this one, giving the NG units the ability to move in and grind down the bad guys prior to the black orcs and squigs hitting them.  Flank charges are REALLY expensive for wolf riders and spider riders, and they are really soft, making it hard to justify.  A unit of 12 wolf riders will run nearly150 points, which is almost another whole unit of spear NG without fanatics and nets.  I will take the sloggers and fight it out!

In looking at the games people have played and doing the math, there are few things that will survive being depleted then struck by those squig or BO blocks.  The odd sizes are because they will be killy enough to win combat without using a ton of extra ranks for nothing.  Also, thats what I have put together.  I have another 20 BO, but I made bases for 18 and 24 (6 wide)!

The damage output on the suig alone is amazing.  They get their 21 attacks at S5 every round.  Add ITP and the odds that they will either be facing depleted units or lighter blocks, and you have a nasty combination.  Chaos warriors won't want to get into a grind fest with them either.

Mostly this is a fun army I like the models for.  The only things I need to free up are points for hoppers and the giant squig.

Phil

[Shadowlord]

While I could come up with a dozen army lists that will normally whop yours, I rather focus on the below.

Chaos warriors won't want to get into a grind fest with them either.

I5, STR5 if you use Halberds, WS5 and multiple attacks will remove your beloved squigs faster than you can say "Oh Golly!".

@ Warlord, he did add two rock lobbas.

[Warlord]

Chaos warriors won't want to get into a grind fest with them either.

I5, STR5 if you use Halberds, WS5 and multiple attacks will remove your beloved squigs faster than you can say "Oh Golly!".

Oh yeah. Plenty of stuff will chew through them. No guaranteed first set of attacks on charge while denying enemy attacks back hurts them more than the extra rank of attack. These guys are practically the same as our flagellants - will die quickly, but will kill stuff too (at least these guys are S5 every round).

@ Warlord, he did add two rock lobbas.

Ah. 

[Shadowlord]

No guaranteed first set of attacks on charge while denying enemy attacks back hurts them more than the extra rank of attack. These guys are practically the same as our flagellants - will die quickly, but will kill stuff too (at least these guys are S5 every round).

Except in his list they are a magnet for firepower as well.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Toughness 3 aren´t they...so perhaps even longbows and poison darts might put a dent into them. For grinding...it is kind of depressing when you run the numbers against high T armour save enemies.

[phillyt]

If the Chaos Warriors are deployed in their normal conformation, they will be 3 deep and 5 or 6 wide.  Assuming they are 6 wide, thats 18 models.  As a whole, the unit will be nearly 300 points if not more.  Those 15 attacks will result in 10 hits and 8 wounds, taking the unit down to 22 models.  The squig attack back with 21 attacks, 14 hits, 9 or 10 wounds.  The Chaos Warriors save two perhaps, leaving 8 dead.  They have 10 left.  The squig win with their ranks.  In round two, the Chaos Warriors only have 10 models remaining, meaning 7 hits, 5 wounds.  The squig get the same number of attacks back they had last round, leaving 2 CW left in most cases.  All from a 210 point unit.

And all of that assumes the bolt throwers didn't chew their way through or the fanatics didn't strip off a couple.

Shadowlord:  I seriously doubt you will find anything that will 'whop' this army.  You can find bad matchups, but this army could castle up and shoot many armies to a draw without trouble when combined with the magic potential.  This is a fun list, there are plenty of ways to make it harder.

Phil

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think Empire with artillery heavy (4 cannons, 2 mortars, 2 hellstorm) will give them a run for their money and armies that go strong on magic (one purple sun with so many low I targets) other than that a very powerfull build indeed.

[Shadowlord]

Shadowlord:  I seriously doubt you will find anything that will 'whop' this army.  You can find bad matchups, but this army could castle up and shoot many armies to a draw without trouble when combined with the magic potential.  This is a fun list, there are plenty of ways to make it harder.

Magic potential can be found in a lot of armies, not just yours.

Your army is also extremely dependant on your general with weak leadership overall.

And how you can get 21 attacks hitting on 4s to be 14 hits is magic to me much like a lot of your über-stamp on this army. And if the 6 wide chaos warriors are still ten left (more if you calculate right), they still whip out 16 (over nine wounds) attacks in the second round, and 18 in the first (that's over ten wounds). Your math is way off to start with.

Also against Chaos you will not be so lucky with your saves if the guy brings his nice leadship banner and hellcannons (that's a nice -2 panic test).

Bringing out fanatics will be easy with the new vanguard rule for cheap fast cav and if you spread them too wide, no leadership for these.

[Fandir Nightshade]

I would like to see a battle between the two of you....well first Aldaris Ratmen and than the world.

[Shadowlord]

I would like to see a battle between the two of you....

PhillyT needs to learn math first, then I will do battle with his lists.

And win of course... 

edit: not with the Brets of course