Topic: Mantic human army list is out

[Death]

Currently PDF versions of the human army list, as well as the 2011 rules are in the formatting stage. several problems in said stage have cropped up, delaying the release of the PDF versions.

However, the army list is in print in the printed copy of the rules, and as I just so happen to have a nice, signed copy sitting in front of me I figured I'd answer any questions the forum has.

[Athiuen]

So... Whats on the list?

[Death]

Kingdoms of Men
Foot guard, Spear Phalanx, Shield wall, Missile Troops block, Pike Phalanx, Ogres, Pole-arms block, Penitents mob, Militia mob, Knights, Mounted sergeants, Mounted scouts, Cannon, Organ gun, Mortar, Rocket artillery, Trebuchet, General, Army Standard, General on winged beast, Hero, “The Captain”, Artillery master, Priest, Wizard.

[Shadowlord]

At last...

[ZeroTwentythree]

Kingdoms of Men
Foot guard, Spear Phalanx, Shield wall, Missile Troops block, Pike Phalanx, Ogres, Pole-arms block, Penitents mob, Militia mob, Knights, Mounted sergeants, Mounted scouts, Cannon, Organ gun, Mortar, Rocket artillery, Trebuchet, General, Army Standard, General on winged beast, Hero, “The Captain”, Artillery master, Priest, Wizard.

So.... Empire knock off, then?

[Delthos]

Sounds more like a mix of Bretonnian and Empire to me, with a little bit of Dogs of War with the Pikes. But its really no different than all their other armies, all of them are GW knock offs. It's not a suprising to me. Supply miniatures to all the people who want an alternative to GW's prices and give them all the troops they need to field a GW with all Mantic miniatures. Some people think its lame, and to a certain extent it is, but I see nothing wrong with it. Our hobby needs some competition. They do have their own game system though, so nobody can say they are only in it to milk GW's dissatisfied customers. I'd hope to see addtional original ideas in the future.

[Aldaris]

So.... Empire knock off, then?

Nooooo! Noononono. No.

Not at all.

[ZeroTwentythree]

They do have their own game system though, so nobody can say they are only in it to milk GW's dissatisfied customers.

When they first posted their rules, I read them and they were also more or less a WFB knock off. I think I commented that it was like "Warhammer Light" or some such thing.

That's fine that they are going for that market, I get it. But so far, in my opinion, they have shown that they are little more than that: a lower quality, cheap, GW knock off.

I really haven't got very excited about anything they've done so far, partially because of this, partially because of aesthetics. If I were into undead, their zombies and ghouls look pretty good. That's about it. Still, I'll keep an eye on their not-Empire figures. They may surprise me and turn out something I like. 

[Athiuen]

YAY, super cheap rank and file models!

[Fandir Nightshade]

Well if they are super ugly like the elves I will pass. But hey ever single new miniature broadens the spectrum I can use for my army so I am happy. If they are half pretty like the ghouls and skeletons of their range I might get some.

[Gneisenau]

From past experience, I think the chance of me liking the new models is about 25%.

Not that it matters with the amount of unpainted Empire I have already...

[Davey]

You never know, they might be ok - I'll reserve judgement

[ZeroTwentythree]

YAY, super cheap rank and file models!

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2490
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/pages.php?page=plastics-workbench (cavalry near the bottom)

 

[MrDWhitey]

I had a lot of goodwill with mantic.

Not really anymore. For example, their new Orx are literally the Orc model sprues, but they took out the fantasy arms and weapons and replaced them with sci fi ones. 

[Justnorth]

Mantic ake some excellent miniatures and they also make some very good rank and file.

Mantic is run by ex GW staff who were high up the ladder, so it's no surprise that their material and product output is similar in many ways.

However the quality of their miniatures is very good across the board, they have excellent model variation in the units and they are plastic and cheap.
I think Mantic are cool and I like what they do.
I thougt the Orcs were very nice. Much more like the LotR vibe than the GW Fantasy stuff. The Mantic orcs are more sinister and evil in appearance, I like my orcs and Goblins to be sinister.
The Dungeon 'thingy' has been selling very well for them.
The rule system is slowly gaining ground but from what I have seen it is a slow process for them.
Bottom line is they are still pumping out nice plastic miniatures at very competitive prices.
Long may it continue for the good of the hobby.

[Death]

They do have their own game system though, so nobody can say they are only in it to milk GW's dissatisfied customers.

When they first posted their rules, I read them and they were also more or less a WFB knock off. I think I commented that it was like "Warhammer Light" or some such thing.

That's fine that they are going for that market, I get it. But so far, in my opinion, they have shown that they are little more than that: a lower quality, cheap, GW knock off.

I really haven't got very excited about anything they've done so far, partially because of this, partially because of aesthetics. If I were into undead, their zombies and ghouls look pretty good. That's about it. Still, I'll keep an eye on their not-Empire figures. They may surprise me and turn out something I like. 

1. The rules play completely differently to warhammer. You have to actually play to get a feel though, reading the rules doesn't do it.

2. cheap imply's shoddy, there is nothing shoddy about Mantic's figures. The quality is top notch as far as technicality goes. Aesthetic is subjective, so everyone is different in their opinion. Knock off is somewhat of a bad word for this situation, as Mantic has their own game and is marketing their mini's towards it. Also the mini's can and have been used in a bunch of other systems than either warhammer of KoW, such as DnD, etc.

3. The kingdoms of men figures (when they do come out, apparently early 2012) have been slated to NOT look like puffy sleeved quasi renaissance Germans. I was talking to Ronnie at Gencon and he thinks that aesthetic has been "done alot already" and so Mantic is apparently going in a different direction.

As far as the army list goes, It is pretty open. For instance, with the shieldwall unit you could making a viking type unit using historical models.

In fact, that brings up another point. Mantic are completely open as far as miniature use in games/tournies of KoW and warpath. Several people have been using gripping beast and wargames factory plastics for their armies.

@ MrDwhitey = That is true, they reused the bodies of the fantasy orc sprues for the orx, but added enough sci-fi bitz to make them look like the savage space alien/greenskins they should look like:



It also makes sense financially for such a small company to reuse plausible resources.

[patsy02]

I think they look quite alright.

[Death]

Any questions as far as unit composition or rules?

[ZeroTwentythree]

2. cheap imply's shoddy, there is nothing shoddy about Mantic's figures. The quality is top notch as far as technicality goes. Aesthetic is subjective, so everyone is different in their opinion.

I should make it clear that I haven't actually built/painted any of their figures. They may be well made, but other than a few (like the ones I mentioned above) the aesthetics just don't do it for me. And you are correct, that is subjective. So I don't know how well cast,or detailed the figures are, etc. I won't really say anything one way or the other about that.

Knock off is somewhat of a bad word for this situation, as Mantic has their own game and is marketing their mini's towards it.

It's difficult to deny that they have more or less followed the same units and general style of WFB & 40k, whether they've got their own game or not.

[Death]

Knock off is somewhat of a bad word for this situation, as Mantic has their own game and is marketing their mini's towards it.

It's difficult to deny that they have more or less followed the same units and general style of WFB & 40k, whether they've got their own game or not.

I understand that. But I attribute that more to good business sense then being a knock off. Swim just behind the big fish until you are strong/large enough to eat him and become the big fish.

[Justnorth]

I should make it clear that I haven't actually built/painted any of their figures. So I don't know how well cast,or detailed the figures are, etc. I won't really say anything one way or the other about that.

It has come to my attention that after reading many of your posts over the last several months on different miniature related threads, that you don't have anything positive to say about any miniatures, unless they happen to be represented on your personal blog.
Maybe you need to step back and take a breather because it's all 'negative' 'negative' 'negative' about other figure manufacturers and sculptors.
Here you are slagging off Mantic, who happen to make very nice and very cost effective plastic miniatures,  when you have not had hardly any contact with the models.
I don't think your opinion is worth very much anymore Zero.
I have lost respect for your opinion regarding miniatures.
It's not balanced or informed to slag off miniatures and a miniature game that you have absolutely no contact with or experience playing.

You do make a rod for your own back by assuming a mantle of 'knowledge' about miniatures, probably because of your blog. You are not without talent either, but you are definitely not in the league of the Mantic sculptors thats for sure.
It's a shame your posts have become so negative all the time because you started a nice blog a long time ago and seemed to know what you were talking about but in the last 12 months you have become increasingly negative about almost every miniature manufacturer and sculptor except for those...  on your blog, even when by your own admission you have had little or absolutely no contact with the miniatures you are happily coating off.
Why don't you get some experience with the miniatures before slagging them off because you are effectively undermining your own opinion when you say things like... oh they are not my cup of tea the sculpting is this or that etc, "... but I don't actually own any, and I haven't actually ever seen them in the flesh, and I have never picked one up and looked at it closely, painted or unpainted...
If you want to slag off sculpts and miniatures from a position of 'authority'  Zero you need to have had some experience up close with the miniatures in question.
In conclusion, considering you are consistently negative about so many manufacturers, perhaps you can point us to some of your models that you have sculpted, that have been cast and have gone into production and are up for sale so we can buy them and offer you an honest interpretation of your works??
When you want to claim a mantle of authority, like the Perry twins have, you need to show what you have to offer in the same playinmg field.
Otherwise, your opinion is just the same as mine and everyone elses, you like it or you don't like it, fair enough.
But you have no grounds upon which to systematically keep slating the products from manufacturers that are not present on your blog.
Go take a happy pill 
Mantic are definitely better in the flesh and they are also definitely better when they are painted nicely, like most other miniatures.
The game I cannot comment on because I have not played it but it was very popular when it was being showcased at the last Salute Convention run by the South London Warlords, the tables were packed with keen participants.

[Aldaris]

It has come to my attention that after reading many of your posts over the last several months on different miniature related threads, that you don't have anything positive to say about any miniatures, unless they happen to be represented on your personal blog.
Maybe you need to step back and take a breather because it's all 'negative' 'negative' 'negative' about other figure manufacturers and sculptors.
Here you are slagging off Mantic, who happen to make very nice and very cost effective plastic miniatures,  when you have not had hardly any contact with the models.
I don't think your opinion is worth very much anymore Zero.
I have lost respect for your opinion regarding miniatures.
It's not balanced or informed to slag off miniatures and a miniature game that you have absolutely no contact with or experience playing.

Whut? He said he considered it to be a GW ripoff (which is pretty obvious) and that he didn't like the looks of the minis much. Then he actually tempered this by saying he hasnt seen them in person, and you respond with this rant, going full on ad hominem mode?

Okay...

Go take a happy pill

Now there's something to consider. For you.

[Justnorth]

No he didn't, simplistic much.
He slagged off the figures AND the game with no experience with either of them.
Enough is enough.
Constant negativity is all that comes out of Zero these days and for some time now.
Put up or shut up.

[MrDWhitey]

@ MrDwhitey = That is true, they reused the bodies of the fantasy orc sprues for the orx, but added enough sci-fi bitz to make them look like the savage space alien/greenskins they should look like:



It also makes sense financially for such a small company to reuse plausible resources.

To be fair, having looked at fully painted figures I do kinda like them. Not enough to get them, but they're fine.

I remember when the original sprues came out for the orcs (their fantasy ones), it wasn't until a certain paintjob that for many people they clicked, as prior to that they were a bit "eh". Came out nicely in the end though, and until I was given hundreds of lizardmen recently I was planning on buying up a few regiments and starting a Waagh.

Their Undead are excellent (bar the catapults and the slightly odd "bloodknights") and their elves are polarising, but I can see how they went with it (though nothing can save the drakon riders).

The dwarves are pretty cool, but the chaos dwarves... less said the better.

The Forgefathers look interesting, I really like the ridiculous amount of heavy armour. The thudd gun on tracks is awesome too.

My main problem with mantic is due to being a starting thing, they aren't fleshing out all the races fast enough to just buy from them to play Warhammer. 

[ZeroTwentythree]

1. I say nice things about most of the figures on my blog because I paint figures I like.  I don't like or pretend to like everything that's released, and I'm certainly not going to fill my blog by painting figures I dislike.

2. I am allowed to say what I like about figures. It's called having a critical opinion -- differentiating between those things I like, and those I dislike.

3. There are far more figures I like than I dislike, and I have made far more positive comments than negative. Earlier in this thread I linked to the Perry miniatures in reply to someone's comment about cheap rank & file. Although I didn't say anything about them, in two separate threads about those figures, I have praised them. When others have asked about alternate Empire figures, I've suggested Artizan, Foundry, Renegade, Crusader, Front Rank, Perry, TAG, Zvezda (if you can find them) and others. Even Old Glory, who get knocked around a lot by others. I've had great things to say about White Knight's retro-dwarfs and some of the other small or private releases (like the Bruegelburg figures.) Outside of the Empire, there's a whole list of manufactures and figures I've praised. I even defended GW's "Dreadfleet" (in that thread, here) as being a worth the price tag in response to complaints about the price.

4. As far as I recall, I have recently been negative about (most of) Mantic's line and those hillbilly halflings in another thread. The reason why I stated that I hadn't painted any Mantic figures -- and I thought I made this clear -- was to explain that I was basing my comments on aesthetics only and did not have an opinion one way or the other on the quality of sculpting, details, casting, etc. because I had no experience to base that on. And I did say I liked the look of some of the kits. The reason I 'm critical of them being knock-offs is that you can get the same thing from GW, usually done better. If they had made an improvement over GW's figures (besides price) I would have been more impressed.

5. The game. I specifically mentioned that I read the rules when they first came out. I don't know if they changed or not since then, which is why I said I read the version they initially published. But the rules I read were more or less WFB mechanics, stripped down. I don't need to have played them to recognize that.