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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Empire 8th Army Book => Topic started by: HammerOSigmar on March 28, 2009, 01:45:17 AM
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In the 16th century the Holy Roman Empire (Germany) starting in the Italian Wars. They used a cavalryman known as the Reiter. He was decked out in Plate Armour, given a Lance and a few Pistols or so. These Reiter units performed sterling duty riding around on their horses and annoying the French heavy cavalry and charging them once they had engaged the Pike Center. I think the Reiter should be inc. into the Empire Army instead of Pistoliers. Here are the Reiters
M WS BS S T W I A LD
4 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 7
Equipment: Lance, Full Plate Armour, Pistol
Mount: Warhorse
Special Rules: Fast Cavalry
Reiter Charge: It was common for the Reiter to shoot his pistol as he charged allowing him to shoot his pistol at a -1 Modifier in combination with the units charge. This does not count in combat resolution but if any usually panic qualifiers are still in play for ex. If the unit takes 25% or greater causalities.
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how many points?
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For fast cav with a 3+ armour save, 1 s5 and 1 s4 AP attack on the charge, and better-than-average shooting? A lot. Like 28 points per or something. Seriously, these guys can do everything and they have zero downsides.
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Isn't there a rule fast cavalry can only have a 5+ armor save at best?
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similar philosophy and similar way to play as well as similar historical inspiration to these, http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=24920.0
I'd consider also doing a stradiot inspired type cavalry, based on the medium cavalry from the balkans and lower carpathians.
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Reiters, stradiots, etc were the bridge between knights and light horse (the english also had reivers which were similar to Reiters) and the forerunner of modern cavalry/dragoons
I would say they had heavy armour, no barding, spear (not lance) brace of pistols, no shield (but maybe a buckler)
They arent fast horse, but they are versatile, flexible cavalry units that can grab territory, harrass flanks and een do damage hand to hand.
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I also wouldn't say they get a pistol shot as they charge. Use the old Mordhiem rule where each Knight in base contact gets an extra attack at str4 in the 1st round of combat (when charging) when being charged they may stand and shoot as normal.
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is this unit meant to replace pistoliers / fulfill the same role?
I think the empire does lack a "light" calvary unit. Something with heavy armor, shield, then mounted for a +3 save, then the pistol rule seems cool, and either lances or spears depending on the rules about the pistol.
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I did some more research and the Reiter did have a Spear instead of a Lance. In regards to Folken there is no such rule.
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Isn't there a rule fast cavalry can only have a 5+ armor save at best?
I think the catch is some fast cav. units have the option to take barding, at the price of lost the fast cav trait. Not a BRB rule, but written in to most every fast cav unit with the option for armor. I could be extremely wrong though.
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Barding, armor or shields are all ways they can improve their armor save. Anything that would improve their armor save above a 5+ for any fast cavalry makes them lose that rule in all the lists I have encountered.
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But my point is that it's not a rule in the sense of, there's no specific place in ANY book that says "Any time a fast cavalry unit improves its armor save, it loses the fast cavalry quality".
It IS a rule in the sense that EVERY fast cav unit loses that quality if it takes armor...it's written into EVERY unit. So, it's a de facto rule, I guess you'd say.
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Yeah, like the 'rule' that you can't cast spells while wearing armour. For most mages, it's simply the fact that they don't get armour options.
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Precisely.
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The old Hobgoblin Cavalry came with a 4+ save - light armour, shield, and mount.
The Reiters...eh. I'd take a looser "Freelancer" option instead - mounted with heavy armour and sword, option for spear and pistol, lance, or shield. But I'd take Demilancers over both.
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How would you do demilancers?
I'd probably do it as pistoliers being allowed to replace one pistol with a lance for some amount of points, probably between 0 and 2.
My initial instinct was that having lances and pistols would be really hella powerful, but they would still be less powerful than 6th ed pistoliers, which weren't exactly broken.
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Demilancers - human (WS3, Ld7) on horse, light armour, lance, and hand weapon, 14 points. May carry a (singular) pistol for +4 pts. Full command options. Fast Cavalry.
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Command at 7 for mus and 14 for others?
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Yup.
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I have always assumed that Pistoliers were GW's take on Reiters. Going back to the original is therefore pointless.
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The only time fast cavalry no longer becomes fast cavalry is when they are given barding to their warhorses.
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The only time fast cavalry no longer becomes fast cavalry is when they are given barding to their warhorses.
Or shields and light armour(see the gobliun fast cav entry in the army book)
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http://images.wikia.com/totalwar/images/d/d4/HolyRomanEmpireReiters_01.png
They do have spears but the picture doesn't show that.
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http://images.wikia.com/totalwar/images/d/d4/HolyRomanEmpireReiters_01.png
They do have spears but the picture doesn't show that.
Ah total war reiters... my favourite unit of cav in the game... Just like pistoliers for me in fantasy, they are just awesome.
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Actually those French archers are just as awesome, three units of them with gold chevrons, priceless...