Topic: Is A Unit's Magic Resistance Useless Against The Doomfire Ring?

[Dendo Star]

You get Magic Resistance (MR) for Magic Missles.

You get it for spells the target your unit, like Warp Lighting or Steal Soul or Mistress Of The Marsh.

I don't think you get MR against the Doomfire Ring/The Burning Head spell. The spell is simply cast and the Head goes off in a determined direction, hitting whatever hapless unit it comes across.

The same principle with the Comet, you cast the spell first and it does do damage, but units hit by the Comet cannot use MR against it when it lands and does hits to them.

Am I wrong?  Dead serious - I was about to fall asleep for the night and this entered my head.

 

[Captain Tineal]

Thats a good one... I think you're right though.

[Wyzer1]

I think your right also. I was wondering the same thing for the comet...

The lizard playing cast it right on top of a skaven screaming bell, and we all just stare silent and each of us asks at the same time, "Does it get the +2?"

We decided no

[charles lapointe]

Thats probably not right.  I'd have to reread the spell and the rules for MR(which I will)  Usually any unit effected by the spell gets to use their MR.  comet dosnt EFFECT anyone on the turn its cast.  Burning head does.

[Dain of the Border Legion]

The first unit the spell is cast 'against' will be perfectly able to use any MR that it has against the Burning Head, units that then are hit by it do not. For example, where XXX = 1st unit and E = 2nd and subsequent units.

Wizard

XXXXXXX - Eligible for MR

EEEEE - not eligible

EEEEE - not eligible

Its the same as foot of gork/warpath, only the 1st Target is allowed to use any MR dice, once the target and been resolved and the dispel attempt failed, any subsequent unit does NOT get a chance to dispel the spell by any means.

Likewise if you cast a comet direct at a unit then they are able to use MR, the wise choice is to put it 1/2" to the side of them, then they get no MR and neither does any other unit passing over the marker in subsequent turns.

Dain.

[Marshal Lucius von Morr]

i agree with dain, the primary target would get mr, the following would not.

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think it is like the casket of souls...you check if any unit has magic resistance and count the highest magic resistance of any unit affected by the spell.

The comet only effects stuff after it is successfully cast so no magic resistance there

[Ratarsed]

I would play it the same way as Fandir Nightshade. Measure the units affected and apply the highest MR from them. The measuring will only really apply if a unit near the maximum range has MR as the rest of the time it will be clear if a unit with MR is going to be affected or not.

Ratarsed

[Dain of the Border Legion]

The comet only effects stuff after it is successfully cast so no magic resistance there

Incorrect there my friend, any spell cast 'directly' at a unit [in some cases primary target] causes them to check for magic resistance. Irrespective of whether the part of the spell that does anything happens afterwards. Check the section on magic resistance in the main rulebook. Its a subtle change from 6th, but a change nethertheless.

Dain

[Fandir Nightshade]

So how about Cleansing Fire? ...no magic resistance?

[Dain of the Border Legion]

So how about Cleansing Fire? ...no magic resistance?

Remind me of the spell description please.

Dain

[jullevi]

The number in brackets indicates the maximum number of extra dice that may be rolled when trying to dispel each spell that affects the magically resistant model.

I would say this means that Magic Resistance works against Burning Head and Cleansing fire if any model in the unit is affected by the spell. Magic resistance does not work for Comet of Cassandora, because like Lapointe said, the comet does not affect anyone on the turn it is cast.

[Dain of the Border Legion]

If you cast any spell or spell like effect directly at a unit you get the MR now though as stated in the rulebook, that's irrespective of when the 'effect' actually occurs.

Dain.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Cleansing fire...all enemy Units 12" around the caster even in close combat take d6 hits of s 5 ...s 6 if undead or demon.

[Dendo Star]

The rules do state that a unit must be targeted by a spell to use its MR.

We don't target a thing with the Burning Head. It just shoots out.  Also, you are targeting the ground with the Comet, not a unit.  Again, no unit targeted, no MR.

[David22]

I agree with that last stated remark Dendo, magic resistance isnt all mighty. It is only usefull if you are targetted by a spell. Wich is 90% of the case of most magic spell. I would indead say it has no usefullness against spells such as burning head , comet or anything that doesnt say "target one unit" !

To me, it doesnt sound ambiguas (not sure i spelled it right)

 :mellow:David

[Elieress]

And you dont target a unit with the casket of souls, you just shoot it, but somehow the MR of any unit affected by it is still used to try and dispell the effect.

 

[Dendo Star]

Well, I don't own the TK book.  How does the exact wording for the Casket go?  I know it needs LOS...

.................maybe we can't use MR on the Casket at all! 

[Dendo Star]

Another part to this discussion.

The Warrior Priest's Soulfire Prayer also seems to ignore MR.  It states plainly the prayer targets only the Priest.  The D6 hits seem to be unable to be countered by MR.

[Dain of the Border Legion]

Ok look at it this way, any spell that is cast directly at 1 unit [although it may affect others], allows the unit to use its MR if it has any, and that is ANY spell at all and that's taken from the rulebook. Spells which target the caster, ie howler wind and warrior priest abilities obviously don't allow for MR because the caster is the target, not an enemy unit.

I am sorry, but this isn't rocket science, its really a matter of reading the rules and taking a common ground interpretation, and while the original question is a good one, it isn't that complicated to find the answer I feel. Bear in mind that the books from 6th Ed that have not been re-released will have difficulty with some magical items/attacks due to the subtle changes in the wording of MR in the rulebook and effects that will not be the same in 7th edition army books compared to their 6th edition counterparts.

Dain.

[Dendo Star]

So, Burining Head is a "yes" for MR and Soulfire is a "no" for MR?

The Comet is also a "no"?

[queek]

MR doesn't work against the Comet, as it targets a spot on the board, and due to timing, you can't tell which units would be affected by the spell.  The Comet is a weird duck, and should never be used as a means to justify other rules arguments. 

That being said, there are a series of questions in Chronicles04 that make it perfectly clear that MR applies vs template spells.   Fandir covered it fairly well above. 

[Dain of the Border Legion]

The comet is a no UNLESS the marker is put on a unit rather than next to it, even though the marker has no 'effect' gameplay wise, it is still an effect that triggers MR of the 'target' unit, by targeting the unit you allow them MR. As queek says its a wierd Duck.

Burning Head is a yes for MR but only vs the 1st unit it hits, subsequent units hit get no MR as the spell is deemed to have been successfully cast already. Soulfire is a no as it targets the caster, NOT the enemy.

Sorry Queek, I disagree with you on some points here matey. Chronicles 04 is really 3 years out of date and for a different edition of warhammer, as such its pretty moot if it can be used as a source for the new edition in my mind. The Rulebook is clear on MR and when it can be used in my mind.

Dain

[MiB]

however Orb of Thunder in no way lets you use MR imo (as opposed to a lot of people over on warseer)

[Dendo Star]

Wait, it wouldn't?