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Imperial Artisans ... The Painters, Crafters & Writers Guilds => The Brush and Palette => Topic started by: Konrad von Richtmark on April 26, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
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edit: Thread title changed 8.10.2020
So I'm going to make some war chickens. I have a rough overall idea of what I want to do, but I could use some help brainstorming.
All the knights in my collection that aren't White Wolves are Reiksguard, not thematically but I'm using those models. In-game, I've used them for both T9A Knightly Orders and Electoral Cavalry. Thus, I want to carry over the same look to the war chickens, and I have a large surplus of 6e plastic knights to use for the purpose. The general idea is that I want them to have a recognizable Reiksguard-ish look, but much more ostentatious to set them apart from the horse-riding knights, even a bit blinged out and overdone.
It'll be 3 models, with standard bearer and musician, but no champion. They'll be armed with lances and shields. I want a proper standard, not just a pennant on a lance. There should be a proper standard in the middle, with a raised lance on each side, nice and symmetric. For maximum symmetry, the musician shouldn't look that different from the third guy. I'm thinking that a horn suspended from the side of the demigryph should be all that sets him apart.
For the standard, I'm thinking of using the 7e greatsword banner. As standard pole and arm holding it, I'm thinking of using the 6e knight couched lance, only raised straight upward. That way, it looks to me like an entirely plausible arm holding a banner upright, supported against his arm and couched into his armpit, though I wouldn't really know, I have never ridden around with a cavalry banner. It shouldn't be too hard to file down the tapered lance into a cylindrically shaped banner pole. Using that bit gets me the correct knight arm too.
The fanciest Reiksguard helmet is, I'd say, the one with the two-tiered plume, so that's what they'll have (also, the fact that it isn't an obvious jousting helmet like one of them is helps too). Also, the demigryphs have some kind of armoured headgear with a spike. I'm thinking of taking away that spike and adding a plume there. Because why not?
I'm also thinking of using the headless pelt cloaks that come with the 6e box as lion pelts for the riders. I'm not entirely sure though they fit, I want them to reach down along the back of the rider, not flutter in the wind (I want these to give more a "riding in style" impression than charge at full tilt). If that turns into an issue, I might either have to cut down the cloak, or use some other bit, but I don't know which. They wouldn't necessarily have to be lion cloaks, but some kind of fancy cloaks they should be.
Various random stuff should hang from the saddles too, because more is more, and because why not? Should a cavalry sword be worn in a sheath at the left hip, or would it be more sensible to have it hanging on the right side of either the saddle or the barding? Also, if I manage to find spare pistols that aren't attached to arms, I could let them have a pistol or two at the ready, because pistols are cool, and (sense a pattern here) why not?
I think you're getting the point of what I'm trying to make. Does anyone have any ideas, or see any possible issues?
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The old metal Reiksguard knights had sashes.
That is something not on any of the current plastic bodies, though it is fairly easy to greenstuff.
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The old metal Reiksguard knights had sashes.
That is something not on any of the current plastic bodies, though it is fairly easy to greenstuff.
If you take a look at one of my demi chickens posted recently, what Mids is suggesting is exactly what I did with on of the knights.
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Just to recap: Would they still ride the war chickens, or are you planning to put them on horseback?
The new AoS chicken are much more interesting scuplts than the 8th ed ones. I don't know how much bigger they are; if the 6th ed plastic knights would look too small on them. Also they lack barding, which I think is an issue to you, since you're very keen on getting the proper look.
If go with horses, there are some heavier looking plastic (GW, like Chaos steeds with spikes etc. filed off) or metal (Gamezone) horses, which would separate them from your Electoral or Order knights.
Midaski's sash idea is excellent.
Hard to think of much else. Painting of course could separate and elevate them. Like adding engravings or etching, at least to some visible parts, like the shoulder plates. If you're not too keen on keeping the polished shiny Reiksguard look, you could also try out black armour, with the classic bronze/gold on the edges.
Will be nice to see how this project comes out. :-)
-Z
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They would still ride war chickens. That's only proper, considering how much of the damage output of the unit comes from the monstrous mounts. While I'm rather conceptually averse to the war chicken, I'm now taking it and rolling with it, making the best of it. These are meant to be noble rich kids with way too much money, who spared no expense not to just get the bestest, baddest mounts out there, but to play pimp my ride too, and buy all the coolest weapons and armour. Imagine the leopard-pelt-wearing Polish winged hussar and transplant him into a fantasy Germanic setting, and don't forget to bring along the towering superiority complex. These guys know they are the best of the best. A self-perception partly justified as they're the product of some vicious natural selection. Many men like them tried to do what they did, to pay-to-win their way to absolute elitedom, but ended up savaged by the war chickens.
I already have a box of the 8e war chickens that I got at a discount from a friend. I'm going to use the chickens from there. While they're not strictly wysiwyg for T9A due to being barded, I'm taking them as they come. That barding has all kinds of ornamentation that can be gilded. Also, it's a convenient solid chassis to which all kinds of random stuff can be attached. I was thinking of letting them go unshielded to make them add up to a 2+ armour save either way, but decided against it. That would not just be aesthetically non-wysiwyg, it could make it slightly ambiguous which equipment option they have.
Another reason why I'm using 6e plastic knights rather than the riders that come in the box is to allow me to stash away the latter, to use as griffon riding heroes. I have the old 6e griffon and the reaper bones griffon, waiting to be mounted.
For army uniformity of appearance, I'll go with polished steel armour on the knights, but thinking of it, I could add gold features to the armour as well, to go together with the gilded ornamentation on the barding. Also, I just realized that I should use the knight torsos with the sun, since they're known as Knights of the Sun Griffon in T9A.
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The job is underway. First thing I noticed was that, unlike for the 6e knights box, the saddle is incorporated into the war chicken bitz, not the knight mounted legs. I thus had to shave off the saddle from the knight legs. I think I've managed to develop a filing technique that gets the faulds covering the waist and groinal area right. There, first unexpected obstacle out of who knows how many surmounted :-D
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The old metal Reiksguard knights had sashes.
That is something not on any of the current plastic bodies, though it is fairly easy to greenstuff.
I'm surprised Midaski uses greenstuff, or does he? :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
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First WIP war chicken, the standard bearer of the unit, from a few angles. It's not done yet, it still needs more ornamentation, blingz and gubbinz.
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/Konrad_von_Richtmark/warchicken_std_frontleft.jpg)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/Konrad_von_Richtmark/warchicken_std_rearleft.jpg)
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/Konrad_von_Richtmark/warchicken_std_rearright.jpg)
The chicken is from the GW 8e box. The knight from the 6e knight box. The cloak is that of the Gamezone Miniatures Imperial General. The standard pole and the right arm are the couched lance from the 6e knight box, slightly converted. The standard is the 8e greatsword standard, with the skull on top from the 6e knight box.
As you can see, I didn't use the knight head with the two-tiered plume. Turned out that the "rear" plume that runs backward and downward interferes with the cloak. Instead, I'll use the two-tiered plumes as headgear for the chickens, in the place where the bigger spike is.
That white thing on the rear barding under the cloak in the first picture is actually the result of a glue screw-up from me. It would, thus, be warranted to stick something else there to cover it up. I'm thinking just spare weapons and the like, but does anyone have any ideas?
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That cloak is an excellent fit.
You really stuffed up that bit at the back... was it also to do with the cloak? Perhaps a sword in scabbard will hide some, with a pistol in holster?
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Getting the cloak to fit that well took quite a bit of twisting and bending with tongs. Some of which left marks behind that I'll have to greenstuff.
Yeah, the ruin at the back happened when I tried to glue the cloak to the barding.
I'm currently thinking he should have a sword in a scabbard on the right-side frontal barding, for easy and convenient draw. Along with maybe two pistols. Farther back, such as on the ruin under the cloak, he could have other weapons that aren't meant to be quickly drawn. He could have a 6e and a 7e handgun both next to each other, representing a smaller carbine-ish thing and a bigger gun, because a gentleman needs a proper weapon for every occasion. Or alternatively, a greatsword.
I'm thinking though I should assemble the body of each of the three knights first, before starting to add gubbinz. That way, I can do it in a more holistic way, considering the whole unit.
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Best thing to cover a large area is a shield; so either swop rider for one you can pose not holding a shield or remove from standard bearer’s arm provided it won’t cause damage to what you’ve already done.
Otherwise a reserve weapon (gun) as already suggested placed to hide as much of the damage as possible from a normal view point. After this if there is any more bend in the cloak use that to close the remaining gap.
I believe you’ll need to add a sword anyway for these knights – this is what I did with mine.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu360/JAKdoor/troopb_zpsec54afa9.jpg~original)
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So many tiny detail touches on that knight JAK. I guess unsurprising looking at everything that you do.
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The Regiment Shield Sprues from the Noughties with the separate icons were great for covering up mistakes.
The Icons were flexible enough to bend on curved surfaces.
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Midaski, that's an interesting idea, I might just do that.
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To be honest I half suspected that was what Jak had done on the right hand picture on the horse's flank, as it looks very similar to the icons.
Not too familiar with that horse as it came post-Goldswords when I lost interest in GW.
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While waiting for my magnetic base order to arrive, I finished up the conversion/kitbash of my Reiksguard War Chickens:
(https://imgur.com/v0QFppC.jpg)
Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the result. They look clearly Reiksguard, just more bling and swag. I'm still a bit unsure though about all the extra weapons, it will remain to be seen when these are painted whether they will look good or just cluttered.
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I don’t think many peeps would be in a hurry to make wings out of those chickens 😸 very nice
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Semi-related post. I decided yesterday I'll make a second unit of war chickens, ordered the box. The idea will be much the same stylistically, only they'll be using Knights Panther heads and pelt cloaks.
How would one go about painting a panther pelt? This is what one looks like, apparently:
(https://userscontent2.emaze.com/images/5b1ad199-8249-4b4f-abbf-f7fcc39dab2a/cf621e62-bfb8-486c-8a79-6ae814f400de.jpg)
So a very dark, almost black blue, and a bit glossy at that. Just basecoat black and drybrush progressively lighter? I have no idea how to keep it appropriately dark while still glossy. For once, those old glossy GW inks might have been useful.
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From "official" GW illustrations and photos, I've always got the picture that the Panther implied by Knights Panther was actually a Leopard. The cloaks in the illustrations and painted miniatures have always been spotted yellow rather than black.
I know this doesn't help. Just an observation.
Painting black pelt, I'd avoid going glossy. Some kind of satine would be better. You could actually get the effect simply by basecoating black and then washing/shading with black or dark blue. Just my idea - haven't tried this out myself. But the black spray undercoat is not 100 per cent matte, it shimmers a bit.
-Z
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Browsing for pictures on Knights Panther, I too realized that they're in fact Knights Leopard. Still, since my army has black as a tertiary colour (with the bog-standard Talabheim red and white being the two primaries), painting them as actual panther pelts would fit. I'd probably also paint the feline crests of the Knights Panther helmets black.
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Yeah that is weird hey. I dont think many people have put those 2 ideas together - panther vs leopard.
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I always figured that the people who thought up the concept didn't know much about felines and since this was before the internet days, didn't think to do some research. :happy:
But since this is a fantasy world, who's to say their panthers can't have spots?
This being said, black knights panther should look good and should give you an interesting take on the war chicken colour scheme, so go for it.
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While waiting for my magnetic base order to arrive, I finished up the conversion/kitbash of my Reiksguard War Chickens:
(https://imgur.com/v0QFppC.jpg)
Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the result. They look clearly Reiksguard, just more bling and swag. I'm still a bit unsure though about all the extra weapons, it will remain to be seen when these are painted whether they will look good or just cluttered.
Truly love them, do you mind if i get inspiration for my own unit?
(and by "getting inspiration" I mean "drastically copy them without shame" :engel: )
The only thing I don't appriciate so much are the hanging pistols, especially the bannerman's one. It seems it's just put there, with nothing to held it in position. :ph34r:
Did you use Reiksguard bodies and torsoes from 6th Edition imperial cavalry?
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Copy to your heart's content! Might be you'll get yours done before me, and then I'll be the one inspired and influenced by you. I'm building a second unit as I write this, along the Knights Panther ideas of the last few posts.
Those are indeed 6th edition knight bodies. The banner pole is actually the couched, charging lance from the same box, just turned upwards, cut a bit to fit, and filed to be of equal thickness all along it, unlike the tapered lances. The banner itself is from the 7th edition greatsword box, though the skull on top is from the 6th edition knight box too. The plumes of the demigryphs are also from the knight box, cut off the heads of knights.
Trickier (or costlier) to replicate as such would be the cloaks. The standard bearer's cloak is that of the Gamezone Miniatures Imperial Hero, I got that one as a birthday gift ages ago but never found any use for him, not being much into mounted characters. The two others have cloaks from the 7th edition general/bsb box, I was lucky to have obtained an extra from a package deal of all the Empire stuff owned by a guy.
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Well, thank you for providing me the complete list of bits needed. :wink:
I might have some trouble to find all those heads (3 and 3 of my favourite ones from that kit, by the way) so I'm currently deciding about using different bits or just make them like yours. I'll probably go for the latter anyway, since I should have a friend with some spare heads here.
As for the cloaks, I'd probably go for the General/bsb kit for all the three of them, for a couple reasons:
-I'd like to have a completely plastic army in order to get it with me wherever I want without any issue.
-I should have a couple hanging around and to find a third will not be so difficult after all... If I have to I'll probably buy another kit, 'cause I'm always needing another body of the bsb on foot and I truly love both the helmeted head and the one with the plumed hat.
Maybe after I've finished them I'll post them here before my usual black primer coat. :biggriin:
About Knight panthers I admit I never make the obvious 2+2 about the pelts. Having seen the rest of your army I suggest you to go for black pelts, too.
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For the record, I'm pretty sure that leopards and panthers are actually the same thing and it's just a convention that we call an all-black leopard a black panther rather than a black leopard. And in medieval heraldry a spotty cat-like creature is usually referred to as a panther, not a leopard. So Knights Panther does make sense.
But Knights Black Panther does seem like a cool idea! :eusa_clap:
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All big Eurasian cats belong to the genus Panthera, which I believe comes from Greek. So lions and tigers are panthers too.
Leopard is Latin, and literally means 'spotted lion'.
:mrgreen:
-Z
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Dark Lord Galax, I remembered another thing I should probably tell you, if you're going to use the 6th edition knight legs. They don't fit as-is into the saddles of the demigryphs. Mainly because the legs come with their own saddle swept around the groinal area of the knight like a diaper. I solved it by simply cutting away the saddle-diaper from the knight legs, and filing/cutting/carving the armour faulds to reach all the way around. It wasn't too difficult, especially since that area wouldn't be seen much anyway due to the cloak, but it was rather time-consuming. Just thought I'd forewarn you.
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Well, thank you for the advice!
I was still wondering about bits to use, and since my works are divided on various phases, wasn't thinking about how 6th ed. pieces would fit.
I'll see how to solve this issue but your suggestion may be the one I'll go for :happy:
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If your friend is short on spare heads, I might have some extra ones I could send you. Depends on which specific bitz you want. The jousting helmets, in particular, I should have many spares of, I haven't used that one much.
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I got my first Knights Panther War Chicken converted, the musician of the unit:
(https://imgur.com/LwtxxS9.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/TxnHZD7.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/zRXyvbO.jpg)
The horn was made from greenstuff fitted around a bit of stiff steel wire bent into an arc, and put through a hole I had drilled through the gauntlet of the rider. On the cloak, I took my greenstuffing to a new level. Those cloaks, as they are, are too long to fall naturally along the back of the rider, the mount gets in the way of that. Glueing them as they are makes them flutter way too much in the wind. So I cut the cloak into several pieces and bent them relative to each other to get it to smoothly get around the shoulders of the rider, then fall almost vertically down to the back of the mount, and fold along the back. Or, that was the idea. In reality, it doesn't entirely rest on the back of the mount, but is slightly above it, but close enough to pass for the effect of movement. Anyway, I filled the resulting cutting seams and gaps with greenstuff and sculpted the fur.
I have never greenstuffed and sculpted on this level before, and I'm quite surprised how well it turned out. That's something I've found out time and again: If you just dare try out new things, you'll be surprised to find out what you're capable of. Look for opportunities to push your limits. I too was a terribad hobbyist once, my first conversion literally ended up having two left hands, something I didn't realize until a guy at the gaming club realized.
Thread title changed since it's no longer just about Reiksguard.
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Looking really good. A lot of work on that cloak.
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great job on the cloak. I will give that a try too.
so...what are you going to do with all the spare demigryph riders? Will they get downgraded to horse knights?
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I don't foresee myself needing to make many more horse knights, and I have spare bitz to make more 6th edition ones, that'd be more stylistically in line with the rest of my army. The thought did occur to me that the six demigryph riders I have are now sufficient for a whole horse knight unit. They could make for a unique unit of Knights Griffon. If anyone wants them, along with barded warhorses, I'd be up for selling or trading.
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Really nice looking conversion. Glad to see that i'm not the only one to add plumet on demi gryph head. :-)
I don't foresee myself needing to make many more horse knights, and I have spare bitz to make more 6th edition ones, that'd be more stylistically in line with the rest of my army. The thought did occur to me that the six demigryph riders I have are now sufficient for a whole horse knight unit. They could make for a unique unit of Knights Griffon. If anyone wants them, along with barded warhorses, I'd be up for selling or trading.
I may be eventually interested :::cheers:::
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Really nice looking conversion. Glad to see that i'm not the only one to add plumet on demi gryph head. :-)
To quote myself from your thread:
Yay, someone else also came up with the idea to add knight box plumes to the heads of the demigryphs! :-D
:happy:
I will stash away the spare bitz of the demigryph box I'm currently working on, to keep it all together. The only things I'm using myself from that box are the mounts and their harnesses. The spares of the first box have already been put into my general bitz box. It's very well-sorted so I should be able to find almost everything, but some random minor item might go missing.
Poke me if you decide you want the riders. I could either sell you them or trade, straight 1:1 swap for 6th edition knightly orders if I can't think of anything else.
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Long dry spell, back to hobbyism :happy:
I'm converting the two remaining Demigryph Knights Panther as we speak.
Need some help from our in-house classicists. Been thinking about the banners of both units. Latin text is mandatory. Need to be sure I get it right, and Google Translate is... Google Translate.
First banner should read Crown of Victory. As far as I can tell, that'd be CORONA VICTORIAE
The second banner should read Black Death, Black Panther! As far as I can tell, that'd be MORS NIGRA, PANTHERA NIGRA!
Correct or not?
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I already posted these in the monthly painting goals, but might as well do here too. The Demigryph Knights Panther are converted.
(https://i.imgur.com/divfJTS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PGUEx8w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D5lswwL.jpg)
I have to say that building two units of demigryph knights has managed to change my attitude entirely towards them. I used to despise them for being representative of everything that was wrong with 8th edition, so that led them to become guilty by association in my mind. I never liked the rider models much either, they were an unwelcome break with the style of earlier editions. Too little glory, flair and flamboyancy, too much memento mori.
Building these units though, on my own terms, has changed it all. These look properly to me like the pinnacle of Imperial chivalric glory, elite knights riding magnificent beasts of war, while still recognizably Imperial in the style of the old knightly order plastic box we all love. Before, I was determined to be able to win without having to field any demigryph knights. Now, I'm eagerly looking forward to putting them on the table.
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Wow I've only know stumbled upon this thread. These converstions are awesome, and much, much cooler than the official Demi models. :Ohmy:
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Had a longer break from the hobby, now back in the saddle. I managed to finish the first Reiksguard Demigryph Knight:
(https://i.imgur.com/Foj3qYQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ssE9UL8.jpg)
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Welcome back Konrad!
You haven’t lost your touch either 😺
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Snazzy! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
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Glad to see you back, Konrad. Hope you pick up some speed and present the full units of demigryph knights soon.
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Finishing the rest of the unit is indeed next on the agenda.
I have to say that the armour of the first guy turned out darker than I had expected and planned. The contrast provided by that gold trim does it, I suppose. A satisfactory result nonetheless.
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Welcome back, Konrad! :-)
-Z
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Alright, first unit done. Reiksguard-style Demigryph Knights por favor:
(https://i.imgur.com/2nOj3zs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IiQMKeK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6V2sjXf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Av1Bcw8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pewowmH.jpg)
For the standard, I actually used a black ink pen to draw the letters and the outline of the laurel wreaths. I'm not that good at freehanding. Not at drawing either actually, it took quite a bit of covering up with paint and trying again to get it right to a satisfactory degree.
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I find banner heraldry is the most difficult to paint - but I have little to no painting skills. I just create my banners using ppt, make good colour prints and glue them on.
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I will certainly consider going for all paper banners if I start a new army, but I'm kind of invested in doing it the usual hard way for my Empire and for my Elves.
When I finally get around to making my new BSB, I will certainly make the design digitally first, so that I have a model from which to do the painting.
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Those gryphs are amazing. That cloak on the middle guy is a pile of work but totally worth it. I wouldn’t even consider trying that.
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Artoban, you are too kind. The double eagle is not freehanded by me, it was there on the original bit, I just had to highlight it gold.
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Still needs a competent hand to highlight it that way. I also failed to mention that for a non-professional or "non-mechanical" painter, your free-hand banner is quite good.
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Demigryph Knights Panther are done.
(https://i.imgur.com/xt8WYus.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JKAZ8sf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mF6bwO0.jpg)
Less bling, more serious business. I didn't quite manage to get the little blue sheen on black fur that I had hoped for the cloaks. I tried drybrushing with ultrasmurf blue, but either it got too blue or too insignificant. So I covered up with two rounds of nuln oil, and the result is what you see. It was not what I had planned on but decent enough, so I decided to let it be.
I've had enough of knights and freehanding banners for a bit. Next I'll paint some entirely bog-standard halberdiers.
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Ha! I was just seeing this thread again and was going to ask about the cloak.
No need, answer already provided, but it still looks good! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::