Topic: Question about Warrior Priests

[Duinila]

So, I am currently looking at all my characters, trying to give them all a name. The question I have is, do Warrior Priests have a title or like full names or just first names, etc? Like for example I have Arch Lector Archibald, and a a Priest with a two-handed hammer named Wagner. Now does the regular priest get a rank or title or something, or just have his normal name?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

As far as I know, there is no specific Warhammer fluff on this. However, the Empire is based on the Holy Roman Empire around 1500, and the (structure of the) Church of Sigmar on the Catholic Church. As such, a Warrior Priest named Wagner would be normally addressed as Father or Reverend in personal conversation. If you would be talking about a Priest of Sigmar Wagner, you might refer to him as Father/Reverend Wagner, as (Father/Reverend) Wagner, Priest of Sigmar, or, indeed, add anything else of distinction, in particular noble descent, e.g. Father Wagner of Bogenhafen, or Wagner of Bogenhafen, Priest of Sigmar etc.

[TexasYankee]

I've always used the title "Brother" when assigning names to my Warrior Priests. I gave them first and last names if they were of noble birth, and only first names if they were commoners. But as Fidelis stated above, I don't know of any fluff that provides official ranks/titles to the Church of Sigmar.

[Gneisenau]

That has me wondering: are there monks of Sigmar? Nuns, sure, and priests and templars - but monks?

I don't know right now.

[TexasYankee]

That has me wondering: are there monks of Sigmar? Nuns, sure, and priests and templars - but monks?

I don't know right now.

My uncle is a Franciscan Friar, and they dress like monks. Are not all monks also priests and vice versa? Holy shit, I'm a bad Catholic . . .












(see what I did there?)

[Darknight]

I'm a bad Catholic . . .

We all are - it's kinda the point

My uncle is a Franciscan Friar, and they dress like monks. Are not all monks also priests and vice versa? Holy shit, I'm a bad Catholic . . .

Priests are ordained as priests - they are ontologically different from lay-people. They have the ability to confect the Eucharist and absolve sins in confession.

Members of religious communities are monks and nuns - they have made vows of poverty, chastity and obedience to live in community according to specific rules.

"Sisters" are female religious ("nuns" are specifically cloistered). They are, of course, never priests.

"Brothers" are male religious ("monks" are specifically cloistered). Members of male religious communities CAN be priests, but do not HAVE to be. Most are not.

There are "secular" ("of the world") priests and "religious" ("bound") priests - secular priests serve dioceses as pastors of parishes. Religious priests serve the needs of their community (but the community might run a parish or pseudo-parish which serves a congregation - it's complicated).

[TexasYankee]

I'm a bad Catholic . . .

We all are - it's kinda the point

My uncle is a Franciscan Friar, and they dress like monks. Are not all monks also priests and vice versa? Holy shit, I'm a bad Catholic . . .

Priests are ordained as priests - they are ontologically different from lay-people. They have the ability to confect the Eucharist and absolve sins in confession.

Members of religious communities are monks and nuns - they have made vows of poverty, chastity and obedience to live in community according to specific rules.

"Sisters" are female religious ("nuns" are specifically cloistered). They are, of course, never priests.

"Brothers" are male religious ("monks" are specifically cloistered). Members of male religious communities CAN be priests, but do not HAVE to be. Most are not.

There are "secular" ("of the world") priests and "religious" ("bound") priests - secular priests serve dioceses as pastors of parishes. Religious priests serve the needs of their community (but the community might run a parish or pseudo-parish which serves a congregation - it's complicated).

It is very good to have you back, sir.

[Darknight]

It is genuinely good to be back.

I think there is room for non-ordained but vowed communities of brothers / sisters in the Empire (they could be called nuns or monks without problem). Technically speaking, of course, many of the Knights are "Templars" - which is usually taken to mean vowed brothers.

In terms of titles for Warrior Priests, I think there is room for a lot of different titles. "Priest" called Father is one, but there are also historical titles such as Archpriest, Deacon, Acolyte, Bishop, Monsignor (although I think that is relatively new). There are also titles which are based on duties - Lector, Thirufier, etc.

Very senior priests might have subordinate members of their household who have silly-sounding titles, but which denote great political power. "Bearer of the incense boat" sounds ridiculous ... but if you do it for the pope you are probably much more than a glorified altar boy . . .

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

That has me wondering: are there monks of Sigmar? Nuns, sure, and priests and templars - but monks?

I don't know right now.

As so often, there are probably differences between the various editions. In WFRP2, there are three major orders within the Sigmarite Church:

- the Order of the Torch, running almost all of the temples and shrines across the Empire.
- the Order of the Silver Hammer, consisting of intinerant Warrior Priests
- the Order of the Anvil, specified as a monastic Order, studying and interpreting the word of Sigmar.   

 "The monastic Order of the Anvil is more populous than many expect, and, as they are masters of cult and Empire law, they are also more influential than the other orders would like. The Keeper of the Word leads the order from the Helstrum Monastery in the Temple District of Altdorf. His position is for life, and he is the ultimate arbitrator of the Word of Sigmar, even though, in theory, the Grand Theogonist could overrule him. Each monastery of the order is lead by an abbot who is theoretically answerable to the Keeper of the Word, but in practise has almost unrestricted power over the monks and novitiates in his care. In many isolated monasteries, the abbot is not even appointed by the Keeper of the Word, but by the monks themselves." (WFRP 2 Tome of Salavation p. 58)

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Also: welcome back, Darknight.

[Xathrodox86]

That has me wondering: are there monks of Sigmar? Nuns, sure, and priests and templars - but monks?

I don't know right now.

In Nathan Long's "Zombie Slayer" there is a mention of Sigmarite priory, where warrior-monks train in a specific art of combat.

Also remember that Sigmarite Priests often take dwarven names or surnames, to show their respect to Sigmar's oldest allies. This is especially  popular with Grand Theogonist and Arch Lectors.

Oh and Priests of Sigmar can have families, at least according to the "Thousand Thrones" campaign. Just a little of fluff nugget for you guys.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Also remember that Sigmarite Priests often take dwarven names or surnames, to show their respect to Sigmar's oldest allies. This is especially  popular with Grand Theogonist and Arch Lectors.

This is, in fact, limited to the Grand Theogonist and the Arch Lectors - a custom dropped in WFRP 3.

[Xathrodox86]

Also remember that Sigmarite Priests often take dwarven names or surnames, to show their respect to Sigmar's oldest allies. This is especially  popular with Grand Theogonist and Arch Lectors.

This is, in fact, limited to the Grand Theogonist and the Arch Lectors - a custom dropped in WFRP 3.

I always thought that it was required in the case of GT and Arch Lectors, but also possible for lower-rank priests. As for WFRP 3ed, I don't know much about it sadly.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Tome of Salvation p. 57: "To honour the Dwarfs, it is customary for the Grand Theogonist, and the arch lectors, to assume a Dwarfen name or epithet."

The obvious implication is that it is not customary for other clerics.

[Duinila]

1. Cool, expected like one or two replies, but not this! So thanks a lot guys!

2. So I like the idea of using the catholic system with a couple of special things thrown in, like Archlector and whatnot, so woo, can finish naming mah gois!   

3. So concerning the arch lectors taking dwarven last names to honour them, I already decided to name him Arch Lector Archibald. You guys seem to know lore better, so can you maybe help me with finding a fitting dwarven surname? :3

[Xathrodox86]

Tome of Salvation p. 57: "To honour the Dwarfs, it is customary for the Grand Theogonist, and the arch lectors, to assume a Dwarfen name or epithet."

The obvious implication is that it is not customary for other clerics.

Yup, you're right. Thanks for the clarification.

[S.O.F]

3. So concerning the arch lectors taking dwarven last names to honour them, I already decided to name him Arch Lector Archibald. You guys seem to know lore better, so can you maybe help me with finding a fitting dwarven surname? :3

Really you could just keep him Archibald. If lore is as big a concern to want to change to a Dwarf name I think it simply easier to just not consider your character one of the two Arch Lectors. The entry is really just there with that name for any lord level Priest character. A High Priest or High Capitular with a martial spirit could equally represented with this stat line.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

What SOF says. And if I may overcome my natural shyness and inhibitions to refer to a relevant section of my History of the Empire.

[CarolineWellwater]

(( Can't... restrain... gallows... humor...

You know, you could go for more GW-esq titles...

Like... Smashitor for your zweihander priests... Burninator, for your priests who cast soul fire a bunch... and Yellinator, for those priests who hate everything.

Yellinator Weiss..m the screaming-est-ly mad Sigmar priest ever known.

Um... yeah.  Me and my dumb sense of humor.

Complete tangent, one of the coolest things from Valkeria Chronicals is when Selvaria says, "What says, your Grace?", when she addresses Crown Prince Maximillion ))

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Yup, you're right. Thanks for the clarification.

Now you have seen the error of your ways regarding the Sigmarite Church, perhaps you should do the same regarding the Catholic Church? 

[Duinila]

I actually am trying to name all my characters with really dumb names. Like my bright wizard is named Ferdinand Euerbaum, or F.Euerbaum for short lol

[Gneisenau]

Yellinator, for those priests who hate everything.

Very good!

I like the idea of using the catholic system with a couple of special things thrown in, like Archlector and whatnot, so woo, can finish naming mah gois!   

I think the correct plural is "goyim".

[Duinila]

Nah nah nah nah, gois as in guys x33

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

(( Can't... restrain... gallows... humor...

You know, you could go for more GW-esq titles...

Like... Smashitor for your zweihander priests... Burninator, for your priests who cast soul fire a bunch... and Yellinator, for those priests who hate everything.

Yellinator Weiss..m the screaming-est-ly mad Sigmar priest ever known.

But that is AoS, not WFB.

[CarolineWellwater]

(( Fidelis von Sigmaringen,

You're just jellous you didn't think of it first

Anyway all,

Anyway, why not just keep it simple, with something like Friar Smash-a-hal... or Father Huge McBiglarge... or Brother Eric von Facenpunchin? Or something like that?

Or, to use some personal examples, my Sigmar it Priestesess are Katarina Friez and Paetricia Senatoriae... hence my user name.  So, even though my names are semi-serious, I took huge liberties with Latin and High German when coming up with my names.))