Topic: Looking to Start Gaming, quite lost (got a small Empire army)

[cpt.Piggy]

Hello everyone

My first post, this seems like a great community.

so, I'm quite addicted to PC games (eg Total war series). Late nights effecting my health + quite isolating.

I figure its finally time to get into the Warhammer scene. I love strategy, love gunpowderyness, and the social aspect seems quite appealing.
about 7ish years ago at school, i started collecting Empire, painted up a small army:

-24 handgunners
-16 sword/shield guys 
-20 spearmen
-standard bearer / drummer / cpt.
-1 cannon
-1 engineer

(Iv always had a massive passion for British military history. The thought of pitching 'Red-coats' against fantasy creatures/armies seems really fun. You could probably guess the colour scheme i chose for my army...  )

back then, i played 1 tutorial game (@games workshop) with a friend who had small army of lizardmen, was a fun game, but was very confused by large amount of rules.
I never really got into the gaming, I kind of drifted away from it all, was at boarding school and couldn't find people to play with

Today, im really keen to get into it and dont know where to start.
im a bit confused with this whole 'age of sigmar' business and how the 'Empire' fits into it from a practical standpoint?

cause im new, i thought i might be good to learn the current, up-to-date vanilla rules, so i can more easily find people to play with?

was thinking about how to further build up my army.
In games workshop today, was buying a General (with a stately Banner), and was asking about Empire and how to build up army, randomer overheard, leaned in"

"GO BIG, you'll want units of +20 / +30 troops for buffs/bonuses"

might be a bit tricky for now, poor mental health - unemployment means iv little money for hobbies :/
(i been checking ebay, i dont mind buying a bulk of painted state troops and stripping paint, good idea?)

so, what are some of the empire's strengths / weaknesses in the current meta-game?

how you like to play empire? (with what army build?)

do you have any suggestions for what troops i should get next?

living in south UK, what is best way to learn rules, meet others and play games?

many thanks
Cpt. Piggy

[Gneisenau]

Welcome to the forum!

Hunting models on ebay is a good idea, unless you let yourself get carried away and buy overpriced stuff. A little bit of patience may be required. You could also ask in this forum's Trading Post for the models you want - maybe somebody wants to sell his, you never know.

Stripping works. For stripping plastic models, I recommend a product called "Simple Green". Works a treat and smells nice.

If you want to play Age of Sigmar, I can't be of any assistance, but we have a whole dedicated sub-forum for this particular ruleset. Just scroll down a little.

[cpt.Piggy]

Thanks for tip on "simple green".

but i really gotta stop with the ebay, going a bit nuts.....

*maybe this topic better suited to AoS forums, if possible, forum mod welcome to move thread over*

[Zygmund]

Since you already have Empire models on square bases, you could have a look at the two mass battle fantasy games of the day:

The 9th Age (T9A)
- massive rules, carrying the legacy of Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th ed.

Kings of War (KoW)
- streamlined rules (extremely few special and unit specific rules), but can be very tactical

Pretty sure both are actively played in southern England. Both can be played with smaller forces. I'd say your existing models would be good for a nice & entertaining test game of KoW.

-Z

[Konrad von Richtmark]

Redcoats are somewhat later than the military tech level the Empire is meant to represent. Think, rather, New Model Army. Wearing vintage 16th century Landsknecht fashion.

[GamesPoet]

-24 handgunners
-16 sword/shield guys 
-20 spearmen
-standard bearer / drummer / cpt.
-1 cannon
-1 engineer

Seems like a good start!

Today, im really keen to get into it and dont know where to start.
im a bit confused with this whole 'age of sigmar' business and how the 'Empire' fits into it from a practical standpoint?

Games Workshop transitioned their fantasy business away from Warhammer Fantasy Battles to Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.  The two systems are quite different.  With W:AoS being the new version, a person might find more folks willing to play this at local stores than WFB, although I'm not seeing much of either currently.

My recommendation is have a wide open mind and be creative.  Don't limit yourself to what isn't being played, but instead come up with what you're interested in trying and give it a go, whether it be WFB, W:AoS, 9th Age, King's of War, or maybe even something like Dragon Rampant, the last being something you don't need a lot of figures to get going.  Figure out what rules you're going to give a go, and then determine what other figures you might want to have on hand.  Buying a General figure is good because it can always be used as a leader in most rule systems, and that will get you painting again, too.  Army composition could be better determined once a rule system is known

And welcome to Warhammer-Empire!

[Artobans Ghost]

-24 handgunners
-16 sword/shield guys 
-20 spearmen
-standard bearer / drummer / cpt.
-1 cannon
-1 engineer

Seems like a good start!

Today, im really keen to get into it and dont know where to start.


im a bit confused with this whole 'age of sigmar' business and how the 'Empire' fits into it from a practical standpoint?

Games Workshop transitioned their fantasy business away from Warhammer Fantasy Battles to Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.  The two systems are quite different.  With W:AoS being the new version, a person might find more folks willing to play this at local stores than WFB, although I'm not seeing much of either currently.

My recommendation is have a wide open mind and be creative.  Don't limit yourself to what isn't being played, but instead come up with what you're interested in trying and give it a go, whether it be WFB, W:AoS, 9th Age, King's of War, or maybe even something like Dragon Rampant, the last being something you don't need a lot of figures to get going.  Figure out what rules you're going to give a go, and then determine what other figures you might want to have on hand.  Buying a General figure is good because it can always be used as a leader in most rule systems, and that will get you painting again, too.  Army composition could be better determined once a rule system is known

And welcome to Warhammer-Empire!

Not a wasted word 👆
Well said GP

[cpt.Piggy]

ah ok, so it seems there are quite a few different sets of rules in circulation then. I will probably just go with what ever rule-set is being used by the people i end up playing with.

nice point about Empire being earlier time-period than 'red-coats'. i guess the spears/halberd's are a giveaway.

good to hear about some 9th age + KOW being played in south England.
Iv started on ma General. it seems nice and managable to start with one model. got my hobby desk all set up.

i have a lot of issues with anxiety / restless mind these days. sitting and modeling/painting is kinda like meditation, followed by a sense of achievement/pride.

unboxing all my old paints, there were quite a few dried pots, some semi-dried.

i picked up a pot of 'Lahmian medium' from GW. guy said to add a bit to semi-dried paint to bring it back to life.

all the best chaps
thanks for support

[Artobans Ghost]

Quote: cpt.Piggy
i have a lot of issues with anxiety / restless mind these days. sitting and modeling/painting is kinda like meditation, followed by a sense of achievement/pride.


Can't think of a better way to kill the jitters. I should have my work table by the end of the week then I can put the hours I spend stairing at the ceiling between 3:00 and 5:30 in the morning to good use 😸

[Konrad von Richtmark]

nice point about Empire being earlier time-period than 'red-coats'. i guess the spears/halberd's are a giveaway.

Well, the New Model Army was, as far as I know, something of a precursor to the redcoats. Pretty much Redcoats in the pike & shot era, rather than their own everyone-has-a-musket-with-a-bayonet era. If you can feel inspired by it, the New Model Army is probably a good mental starting point, since it's quite similar to what Empire state infantry is supposed to represent: Relatively well-drilled troops capable of acting in a coordinated way, and thus punch above the individual fighting prowess of the soldiers. Or at least, that's what Empire is supposed to be in T9A (and most editions of Warhammer), being endowed with army-specific support unit rules that allow units to support each other and act out-of-turn to respond to enemy actions.

[Baron von Klatz]

A redcoats army from the early 1700s with plug-bayonets that turned the muskets into spears by plugging up the barrel would work as spearmen. Officers also armed themselves with halberds as a mark of station so your halberdiers could be treated as a fancy veteran unit of officers gathered together.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, Cpt.Piggy! 

Would've welcomed you much earlier but I'm having bad internet problems.

As others have said, play the system your local group is playing or/and you have the most fun with.

Unfortunately,  I'm really short on time right now but here's some links to help you with your questions if you play AoS matched play:

(Old legacy army)
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics/Edition_1.0/The_Empire
(Current army)
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics/Edition_1.1/Free_Peoples

Here's also some fan projects that might interest you as they focus on a DnD/rpg skirmish format.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717716.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/706704.page

Also, in case you don't have it I recommend the AoS app for a quick and efficient warscroll management. (Easier than having pdf's all over the place)

Look forward to talking more about this later.

[cpt.Piggy]

they some nice links.

the role play / skirmish scenarios seem a tad daunting as im still not very familiar with any basic rulesets.

the 4chan wiki one on free people's is a really nice summary of the free peoples faction.

oh and i got the AoS app for my tablet. quite handy to save all relevant war scrolls into the 'battles' tab to have all relevant unit information to hand.

[Gneisenau]

OT: That avatar of yours is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWvevkE0kAI

[cpt.Piggy]

just a little dirty.... still good, still good HAHAHA!   

[GamesPoet]

The New Model Army was organized by Parliament in February of 1645 to address the issue where military units of the time weren't much interested in traveling to far from where they were raised.  The army was originally comprised of 22,000 men with 2/3rds being muskets and 1/3rd being pike, 1200 men per regiment.  There were also 11 regiments of 600 horse (armed with swords and pistols), a unit of dragoons (armed with swords and muskets) that were mounted infantry, and 50 cannon.  The men wore venetian red coats with different facings to denote the individual regiments, pants have been portrayed in a variety of colors, browns, greens, grays.  The cavalry wore buff coats under breast plates and iron "lobster tail" helmets.

By June of 1645, the force's commander Thomas Fairfax had apparently already developed the force into one effective enough to defeat the Royalists in its first action at Naseby.  It then began amalgamating various other Parlimentarian armies into itself, and by the summer of 1647 it had become the main Parlimentarian army.  Aftre the English Civil War, the army continued to exist, fightin in Ireland, Scotland, West Indies, and Flanders, the latter including a significant role at the Battle of the Dunes in 1658, but was then disbanded in 1660 upon the restoration of the monarchy at that time.

[jtrowell]

Model wise, if you want good products for your money, look at the Perry brothers, stuff like their war of rose models are very nice for an Empire army and you will get something like 40 models for the price that would get 10 with GW.

Quality wise, the Perry brothers used to work for GW and were among their best scultors, the only potential problem is that their historical range use a more realistic scale compared to GW "heroic" scale (big hands and weapons mostly), so you will usually not want to mix models from both in the same unit, but otherwise it's perfectly fine to use both in the same army if you like them.

All the following boxes are £20.00 :
(for heroes or war engines, they also have a metal range with some decent options, at least for normal humans)

English Army 1415-1429
The box contains: 36 figures, unit bases, 17 banners, 6 standards, painting guide and information sheet.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=3217

Agincourt French Infantry 1415-29
The set consists of  36 Infantry and 6 knights/men at arms. The infantry are armed with spears, crossbows, double handed axes and hand weapons. The knights have cut-down lances/spears, pole arms and swords.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=3414

Plastic Wars of the Roses Infantry 1450-1500, bows and bills (40 figures).
You can build up to 30 bowmen, up to 18 billmen and includes 4 fully armoured command.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2471

Agincourt Foot Knights
This box contains 36 Knights/Men at Arms. There 18 'English' knights and 18 'French', however all could be used for the same side or any west european nation. They are armed with cut-down lances/spears, pole arms and swords.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=3415

Foot Knights 1450-1500.
The box contains 38 multi-part plastic figures, 17 flags, unit bases and infomation sheet.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=3148

Mounted Men at Arms 1450-1500
This box contains 12 mounted Men at Arms that can be used for most European armies. There is seperate horse armour for mounts if needed and 7 different horse heads (25 in total). The Men at Arms have 14 right arm options and 12 head options (per 4 riders). There are also lance,sword,mace, warhammer,axe and standard pole/spear options.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2713

Light Cavalry
The box contains 12 plastic horsemen that can be assembled with light lances, crossbows or as mounted archers. It also contains parts for command figures, banners and historical infomation.
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=3275


Finally for things like Fantasy heroes and wizards, and big monsters, one of the best option to get models for cheap is Reaper, especially the models made in their soft "Bones" plastic (search "Bones" in the shop), but evne their metals are decently priced :
http://www.reapermini.com/

Rules wise, my favorite for ranked mass battles is Kings of War, but of course it can depend upon your personnal tastes and of what is already played in your area (but of course there is also the option of starting your own group of players)

One thing to remember :unless you plan on mainly playing in a GW store or play official tournaments that impose models from them, don't feel that the rule system that you use force you to use models from the same company.

Outside the specific cases mentionned above, it's perfectly fine to play Warhammer with Perry models or Kings of War with Games Workshiop models.
(In fact, official KoW tournaments don't even restrict you to their models, except for the "best painted army" award that need 90%+ models from them, but this is secondary)

Same with the background : there are many former Warhammer players that didn't like what Age of Sigmar did to the setting and the game that switched to Kings of War and still use their original army with their fluff and background unchanged, KoW has a large enough range of generic fantasy themes (plus some specific options made to facilitate the transition from Warhammer), so almost any Warhammer model or unit can be used in KoW.

I will stop there for now, don't hesitate to ask if you want more information about KoW.

[Warlord]

Background and ruleset do not need to be the same to still have a fun time. Look at anyone who converted an army in warhammer inspired by a computer game.

Arguably, warhammer total war can be your inspiration for whatever game system you choose, so you can also still be a bit mainstream and avoid any potential annoying criticism.

[Derek Contyre]

I too am getting back into the hobby and can attest that KoW is one of the better game systems I have played.

I really enjoy the mechanic where you remove whole regiments off the table instead of one guy at a time... really makes playing horde empire easier.

There isn't much more to be said that others haven't already, but I will say, when you are starting out, just play for fun and to learn the rules.

Don't take each loss personally (like I did for a very long time). It takes time and practice to build up your skills as a war-gamer.

Welcome to the hobby!

DC