Topic: What magic items will be removed in our new book?

[Von Ulrich]

I have to say I wish they wouldnt take any items from any army set, I think it is a lot of fun to come up with different combinations. 

Here are some that I think will go away/get changed:

Imperial Banner
Steel Standard
Rod of Power
Van Horstmann's Speculum
Armour of Meteoric Iron


Just to name a few.  I think we have 46 magic items at the moment. 

Tomb Kings went from 35 down to 8.

Why on earth give people fewer ways to have fun?

[S.O.F]

Wouldn't just be easier to guess which 7-9 items stay rather than what go?

[boheminawoods]

What I assume they're doing is attempting to make the game focused more on tactics and the overall army versus a bunch of souped-up characters that really make or break a game. I've noticed, like with the orcs and goblins book, that they have an insane amount of options in terms of unit choices. So maybe it'll be a give and take kind of thing.

As for what they'll actually keep for items, I bet they'll at least keep the runefang but change it a bit. Everything else, who knows.

[Sajek]

We're going to end up loosing any of our fun toys.... frankly I'm dreading our new book.

[patsy02]

There are only 7-9 items that are actually useful in our book though. Let's just hope they're not the ones to go.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I'm pretty sure the Speculum will stay. It's a pretty definitive Empire item, and fits our "we may not be as fast and strong and skilled as you, but that's okay, we cheat," motif.

From the weapons, the Runefang, the Mace of Helsturm and the Sword of Fate I can see staying. They're items that are pretty close to unique for the Empire. They may change their points value though. I can definitely see the Runefang dropping in price.

The Gorgon shield is fairly unique, or at least I can't recall anything similar in the big red book. I suspect the Armour of Tarnus will stay, but we'll lose the Armour of Meteoric Iron.

I'd like the Crimson Amulet to stay, that is a suitably weird Empire thing. "Yes, my Empire wizard can perform acrobatics like a gymnast. What do you mean yours can't?"

The Rod of Power I hope will stay, but they probably won't keep the Seal.

The Griffon Banner will stay, no question, but I hope they drop the points to 50.

I think things like the Laurels will stay, but only as a magical item on Kurt.

[S.O.F]

There are only 7-9 items that are actually useful in our book though. Let's just hope they're not the ones to go.

But by the other books that have come out the kulling has not been as such unfortunately.

[Athiuen]

What are we going to do when they cut our AoMI?  TIME TO PANIC!

[StealthKnightSteg]

items I think are to stay (some of them I hope):

Weapons:
 - Runefang (it's too entertwined with our fluff to get rid of it)
 - Sword of Fate
Armour:
 - Dawn Armor (I hope)
 - AoMI (I hope)
Talismans:
 - None
Arcane Items:
 - Rod of Power (I hope)
Enchanted Items:
 - VHS (if they take this then our chances to get to kill the worst game characters is gone.. it will move empire to suppar army)
Magic Standards:
 - Banner of Sigismund
 - Griffon Standard

Items connected to special characters and not to be used seperatly:
Ghal Maraz + Silver Seal (KF)
Dragon Bow (one of the elector counts)
Sword of Justice (Ludwig Schwarzhelm)
Laurels of Victory (Kurt Helborg)
Staff of command + Horn of Sigismund (Theogonist)
Gelt already has items only connected to himself

[Ratarsed]

The runefang may be special characters only, especialy if we get the elector counts back. But of all the weapons it is the favourite to stay, but hopefuly at 70 points or so. I think the AoMI will go as their is the similar one in the core book at a much higher price. I predict the armour of Tarnus will stay as it has long standing association with the empire. For talismans I predict Shroud of Magnus as the likley candidate for staying. Talismans could give us a re-worked wizards staff. Enchanted items is VHS for keeps, possibly Rod of command or Ring of Volans. For banners Id say Griffon Standard.
What are the chances of one or two compleatly new items?

[mr chumley warner]

I can understand the reasoning behind reducing magic items.

There are plenty of items which are arguably pointless.

With the addition of more armies, having so many items get's complex, and difficult to judge the strength of that army, given that you can take many combinations of builds.

I would welcome some simplification.

As long as we keep VHS, AOMI, DS, DA, BOTEF, ROP , GB etc then I am happy.

 

[towishimp]

Why on earth give people fewer ways to have fun?

Because with every army having 30+ items, it becomes impossible to know what your opponent might take.  If every army book is paired down to 8 items or whatever, I have a reasonable chance of knowing what items are on everyone's list.  I've long been in favor of them decreasing the complexity of Warhammer so that it becomes more managable to remember everything. 

As for my predictions for the new Empire book...
Surely in: Runefang (hopefully reduced in price, so as to be playable), Griffon Banner (also hopefully reduced in cost)
Fairly iconic, but may get axed or rewritten: Speculum, Rod of Power, Sword of Fate, Mace of Helstrom
Pretty surely gone: Holy Relic, Armor of Meteoric Iron, the banner that makes you charge further (forget the name)

My rationale on the last group is that I doubt they're going to waste one of the severely-reduced number of magic item slots in the book on items that replicate effects of items from the BRB.  Especially considering the BSB authors determined that a 2+ armor save costs 45, I don't see how AoMI stays in at the reduced price.  And even though Holy Relic is still priced the same as the BSB item, I don't see the point of wasting one of our limited slots on an item we can already take (I know it means we won't be able to take 2 4+ ward saves, but I think that's how they want it).   I'll be okay with losing AoMI at 25 points.  Honestly AoMI, Holy Relic, Speculum is a pretty obvious "duh" build that I've always thought is overpowered.  2+ armor save and 4+ ward save costs 90 points for any of the new books, and that seems about right; if you want nearly-impenetrable defenses for you character, it should take almost all their magic item points to do so. 

[TexasYankee]

We're going to end up loosing any of our fun toys.... frankly I'm dreading our new book.

Agree 100%. We do not need a new book! (Well , neither did the Greenskins, but . . . )

I'd hate to see AoMI go . . . so hard to keep our human BSB alive vs so many others, AoMI + Dawnstone is so awesome.

I love the Steel Standard, that stupid extra d3" per charge have saved my lance wielding knights more times than I care to mention.

I might be the only brother on this forum to do so, but I've never used VHS or the RoP, so I won't miss them if they do go, but I don't think they will.

[Warlord]

RoP and VHS have to stay.
Runefang will be in there in some way or another.

Everything else IMO is fair game, no matter how much I life the Griffon Banner, Rod of Command, Laurels of Victory and Mace of Helstrum.

Sword of Power and AOMI and Holy Relic I would say are easily discardible due to their comparable counterparts in the new magic item list, and Imperial Banner serves no purpose anymore.

[DivineVisitor]

I dont really understand why the 2+ armour save costs so much in the big red book. It just means you can have access to those kind of armour saves on foot rather than requiring a mount, 45 points for a 2+ save is daft.

As for the items you can just about guarantee we will keep:
Runefang (though i hope its Elector count only and comes automatically without using their magic item allowance)
VHS
Griffon Standard

The ones i think we may also keep are:
Mace of Helstrum
Armour of Tarnus
Seal of Destruction

I'd guess half of the items in the new book will be new.

I'd also like to see Franz getting access to Ghal Maraz, Silver Seal + one other magic item of his choosing from the BRB or Empire Book to represent his enormous access to the artefacts of the Empire and the fact he only has 2 items as standard though i can't see that happening. A shield would be nice mind.

[Eighty]

my friends and i were talking about it, We think that the casket of sorcery will definitely disappear. i never liked using it anyway (always prefer to equip my captasus with more bite)

I would love to see the AOMI stay, perhaps merge it with the dawn armor? as it is the 2+ from the regular book seems like such a let down 

I wonder how the could improve the griffon standard to actualy be worth forgoing magic items on your bsb, I would love a banner that was good enough to make me consider sending him in naked as a newborn.

[mr chumley warner]

I love how this forum can lead to thousands of words dedicated to the discussion and speculation surrounding possibilities and rumour!

Surely there is no way of knowing?

They might bring out a new type of empire armour for troops, ''Sigmar Plate'', 4+ save and 6 + ward , which can stack with a shield to 4+ , 5++

hehe

[Eighty]

I love how this forum can lead to thousands of words dedicated to the discussion and speculation surrounding possibilities and rumour!

Surely there is no way of knowing?

They might bring out a new type of empire armour for troops, ''Sigmar Plate'', 4+ save and 6 + ward , which can stack with a shield to 4+ , 5++

hehe

now now, we arent tzeench chosen or anything  speculation is fun, everyone here is enthusiastic about army building and tactics. So to me it makes sense that everyone is excited about the new book, the Vampire book changed their playstyle greatly, what could happen to us!!!

[mr chumley warner]

true i hear that , we might get IC knights with 2 attacks ,

[StealthKnightSteg]

true i hear that , we might get IC knights with 2 attacks ,

We already have that! What!! we already have normal Knights with 2 attacks! And the second attack is always the best performing aswell!!

Go horsies!

[commandant]

true i hear that , we might get IC knights with 2 attacks ,

I hope not, we are not chaos

[Mechanical Monkey]

I imagine that there will be an Elector counts option where you can get a runefang with some other magic points allowance. I also imagine that VHS will stay but will go to 50 pts. I also think that the imperial banner will stay but have it's rules changed.

[rufus sparkfire]

Maybe there will be a return to named knightly orders, who will be able to buy their special magic banner as a unit upgrade. As blood knights can in the VC book.

[mr chumley warner]

maybe we can get militia horsemen , no barding,

cheap cavalry

[patsy02]

I just want cheap fast cavalry. And maybe fusillade back.