Topic: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder

[rothgar13]

Yeah, that went OK (important target destroyed, Hurricanum wounded), but hopefully I can I get a bit more juice out of my shooting in the future, and hopefully zif starts rolling like a human sometime in the future.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

hopefully zif starts rolling like a human sometime in the future.

That made me laugh.  Luck has a way of going in ebbs and flows!

[Noght]

hopefully zif starts rolling like a human sometime in the future.

That made me laugh.  Luck has a way of going in ebbs and flows!

Ain't that the truth.....

[rothgar13]

Just FYI - I'd welcome any analysis on the decisions I made this turn. Is there anything you guys would have done differently?

[mrth0msen]

Hi Rothgar,

I agree with most of your movement and shooting phase, though I probably wouldn't have fired the steam cannon at the spearmen - I think the risk of misfire is to big compared to the payoff.

Generally I think we have the upper hand now, with the cannon down, so we should hold back a bit and see if we can get another turn of shooting to maybe take off his war altar and hurricanum. Without his buff bots he should have a hard time. The greatswords can be redirected the next couple of turns and we have a steam tank to hold them off as well.

Looking forward to turn 2

Mrth0msen

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I think you made the best of a bad situation.

Do you always go for 5 Steam?  You have some big cojones if you do.  With my luck, I would have 2 dead Steam Tanks T1.   

[Holy Hand Grenade]

The GS declare a charge against the Knights.

Charge reaction, Rothgar?

--GS need to get an 18.  They have an 8 movement characteristic at the moment.
--Knights only have 8 inches or they go off the board.

[mrth0msen]

I'd say hold, keep off bironas in the magic phase and take them in cc

[rothgar13]

Yeah, I'm at 5 SP on T1 all the time. And my Knights will definitely hold against that charge.

@mrth0msen: You make a good point with regards to the Steam Cannon's use on the Spearmen, that was a bit rash, even if the risk of failure is a bit small.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

And my Knights will definitely hold against that charge.

I figured...but I definitely didn't want to make that decision for you and then have it come out the GS make it!   

Turns out it was a wise decision.

[73] 13-03-30 17:32:55 EDT
Greatsword charge on the Knights:
2d6
2 + 4 = 6

6+8=14.  Failed charge.  GS move forward 4 inches.

Zif is working the rest of his moves now.

[rothgar13]

Yeah, I have to say that charge didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I would have thought he would have looked to exploit that 16" march move.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Yeah, I have to say that charge didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I would have thought he would have looked to exploit that 16" march move.

He was trying to keep his luck streak rolling. 

Getting that charge off would not have been a good development for you-  sometimes luck will win the day, but I think a lot of this game comes down to showing tactical patience.

[zakalwe]

I think so far you have done well Rothgar, winning the artillery, dual atm. Though not a big surprise.

I presume you are choosing biggest threat and concentrated fire on eliminating them.

How do you feel about not having your own artillery targeted by Zif in his Turn 1?

What do you feel is central to your victory, at this moment, end of T1? You have a good deal of threat projection in 2 STanks and demis' plus cannons. What are your thought on Zif's threats atm? twin hellblasters?


My general game philosophy is to deal with immediate threats ASAP, like Zif's cannons. I think you made the right decisions. Though i would have shot the hellblaster over the war Alter.as much because my regular opponents are gits with their 4+ wards on that sort of thing, especially screaming bells

[rothgar13]

Thanks for the compliment.

I was a bit surprised Zif didn't decide to go after my artillery, to be honest with you. He got first turn, and that's definitely what I would have done in his case. I did an OK job of shielding the artillery on my end, but I don't think it was a good enough cover-up to justify not trying to give yourself an edge in the gun war - 4 Demigryphs is still a very functional unit.

Yeah, I could (and maybe should) have gone after the HBVG, but I guess I was a bit tempted to go for the home run. Given my positioning, I don't expect that gun to have any real impact on the game for at least one more turn if I ignore it, and the potential impact if the War Altar or the Arch Lector (or even both) bit the dust outweight the lower chances of it happening. You can definitely go either way on that though.

Going forward, I think the top priorities are to get rid of that last cannon to have true ranged supremacy, then neutralize the HBVGs (be it by blowing them up or by getting into combat), and maybe sniping that pesky Wizard with a combination of my Witch Hunter and some magic missiles. I'm not terribly worried about his blocks right now (Greatswords will take forever to get through a Steam Tank with 12 guys in contact wounding on 5+ and allowing 3+ armor - plus the Tank grinding and steaming them, and Demigryphs can take Halberds any day of the week), so he can do pretty much whatever he wants with those. I would also like to eliminate the Hurricanum if I get the chance, though - it evens out the magic phase and gives me even more points.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Lots of action in the other thread.

To recap-  Greatswords attempt a charge against the Knights and fail.  They move forward 4 inches.

Spear 1 moves into the Mysterious Forest and realize it is a Blood Forest.  Zif keeps everything else out of it.

Halbs make a leadership test for a swift reform and move to their current position near the GS.

Timewarp helps out Zif's diverters-  they fly forward to get in the way of the Demis and to side-straddle the STank to limit its movement options.

Winds of Magic roll:

[76] 13-03-30 21:27:12 EDT
Zif T2 Winds:
2d6
4 + 2 = 6

No channels for either side.  +1 PD for Hurri.

7 PD to 4 DD.

[rothgar13]

Much better. 7 to 4 is an OK position.

He's made a couple of pretty intriguing moves. I didn't really expect him to move both Helblasters, but I think it's a savvy move given the situation he was in - I didn't think he was going to get any sort of mileage from planting and shooting this turn. His Archers' positioning strike up an interesting debate as to how to clear them, though; I can either (a) smash them with my DGKs while my STank runs interference on the Halberds; (b) run a War Altar-buffed unit of my own Archers at them; (c) try to clear them using a choice magic missile; or (d) blast them with a Steam Gun. Tough choice...

[mrth0msen]

Much better. 7 to 4 is an OK position.

He's made a couple of pretty intriguing moves. I didn't really expect him to move both Helblasters, but I think it's a savvy move given the situation he was in - I didn't think he was going to get any sort of mileage from planting and shooting this turn. His Archers' positioning strike up an interesting debate as to how to clear them, though; I can either (a) smash them with my DGKs while my STank runs interference on the Halberds; (b) run a War Altar-buffed unit of my own Archers at them; (c) try to clear them using a choice magic missile; or (d) blast them with a Steam Gun. Tough choice...

I guess what to do depends on whether they are outside the AL leadership bubble or not. If they are still inside it, you kinda have to wipr them out. I still think the right steamtank is in a good position now, so I would generate 4 SP and move it 1d6 to a position where it can shoot either the hurricanum or the great cannon, if the left cannon doesn't kill it.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

so I would generate 4 SP and move it 1d6 to a position where it can shoot either the hurricanum or the great cannon, if the left cannon doesn't kill it.

The right STank will not be able to fire at the Hurri or the GC this turn.

The Archers are within 1 inch of the STank.  The STank will be unable to pivot unless it has a distance roll that reaches an enemy unit- because then it can use the charge rules and go within an inch of a unit.  But if it complete a "charge," it can't fire the gun either.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

He's made a couple of pretty intriguing moves.

Since this is a tactical discussion, let me give my 2 cents.  I would have done something like the graph below in Zif's situation.  Making max use of my Timewarped forces I would move all the combat power up. 

--I would send some Archers to the front of the tank so it could only kill them, with a backup set of Archers behind it to do the same thing next turn.  Net effect- tank diverted for 2 turns.

--I would move Arc1 into a blocking position on the Demis so that an overrun would take them into the tower.  My Spear unit is positioned to move to block the Demis next turn.  Net effect-  Demis diverted for 2 turns.

--This leaves my backyard open to the west STank and Knights, so I moved the center HBVG to cover the rear for when they come around the tower.  The other HBVG is on the hill now-  so it can either fire over my lines, or help cover the rear too.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

****Update on the Magic Phase****

First Zif tried to cast a 3 dice boosted Pha's.

[79] 13-03-31 08:11:01 EDT
Zif 3 dice boosted Pha's
3d6
1 + 2 + 1 = 4

Failed cast.

Next he does a 2 dice Banishment from the WAltar on the STank:

[80] 13-03-31 08:30:57 EDT
2 dice Banishment on STank:
2d6
6 + 5 = 11

Goes off on 11.  What do you want to do Rothgar for dispel?

[rothgar13]

Oh wow, he finally started rolling like a person again! Go me! Still, an 11 on dice is rough, but I'll be able to dispel at equal value to any of his Prayers if I fluff this - put 2 DD on it.

I really like your proposed move set, HHG. That would have forced some harder decisions on my end, as opposed to "how do I want to delete his diverters?" I think in your scenario, my best set of options involves throwing the WAltar into combat at the Halberds, biting the bullet and having the DGK charge the Archers, hiding the Wizard Lord's Archer unit in the building, and deciding whether I want to take the bait with the Tank, or use it (followed by the Knights) to slow up those Greatswords while my Halberds get into fighting position. My guess is that I'd probably have to give up the Cannon in that situation, because otherwise the Halberds won't get to fight anything for a long time.

[Krokz]

Just FYI - I'd welcome any analysis on the decisions I made this turn. Is there anything you guys would have done differently?

Your left steam tank is way out of the game. Should have been 1" south of the tower and DKGs should swift reform and move next to it. I understand you didn't had much choices due to not perfect deployment.
I would also shoot at his cannons more. Its the only immediate threat to you at this moment.

[rothgar13]

I agree, his cannons have to be shot at some more. Still, there's only one of them, so it shouldn't be too hard to finish that job.

I slightly disagree with regards to the STank being "way out of the game", though. Right now they're definitely is a less-than-ideal position, but I can charge that unit of Spearmen with my Knights (which he has to take, or just lose them to a rundown as opposed to trying to bring down a couple of my guys with some lucky shots/delay them from being in his backfield for one more turn), and that frees up a lane for my Steam Tank to walk under the Wizard's Tower and get right into the thick of things.

The problem I had with deployment is that he out-dropped me due to going first and since the STanks have the ability to recover from suboptimal positioning (as opposed to the Great Cannons), I decided to hedge my bets by putting one on each side, and then adapt to how he decided to go after that.

[Krokz]

As far as deployment go: I would put DGKs on right flank when I would see him flanking on one position. Would totally change the game

Anyway as you have now I would probably go with 5 steam points on right STank and moved for two points forward (or 3 if you think you can contact greatswords which should be great). Gassing for 3 whatever gets most hits which depends on the position you've got. Best role for that tank on the right is to tarpit GSs and HBs or roadblock them. Gives you time to kill diverters.
 Magic missiles should go on the Master Engineer. Especially to the closest one behind forest. That HBVG will not do much without his BS and a reroll when shooting through a forest.
 DKGs have to charge those archers to make rome for left STank to come on that side. Chargers move before random movers. Left knights into spears ahead yes ...

[rothgar13]

I agree, it's time to barrel the Steam Tank into the Greatswords and belt them with the Impact Hits + Steam Gun combo. I'm thinking that the distance between me and the Swords is about 11-12" (feel free to confirm this, HHG), and that's a makeable "charge".

I'll try to put some MMs on the Master Engineer, that's a good plan. It effectively acts as a proxy for the HBVG thanks to the Look Out, Sir!, so if I tag him enough times I might just kill them both.