Topic: TEG5: High Elf Tactical Thread

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Tactical Exposition Game 5:  High Elf Tactical Thread

This thread is for the HIGH ELF TEAM ONLY for TEG5.   

--If you are in the Empire team, or plan to join it, leave now.
--If you want to join the High Elf Team, just post your intent in here.
--If you are visiting or plan to look at both team's threads to watch from the sidelines, then please refrain from posting comments in TEG5 till the battle is over.

Current High Elf Team Members:

--Fandir (General)
--Rothgar (Lt)
--Sammay (Lt)
--Cisse
--MathiA
--Baluc
--Forumite
--Toledo

--------------------------------------------------------

Team High Elf-

Fandir or Rothgar can post their list idea in here for you so you can start tossing around strategies/tactics.

I am going to be on vacation for two weeks-  we will start the TEG on August 16th. 

 
HHG

[Fandir Nightshade]

So everyone.....if you like wearing a skirt, braiding your hear, walking at the beaches and playing the harp.



You are wrong in here...we are about to kick some Empire ass ..or cod piece depending if the enemy dares to face us or is already running away.

Here is our ass kicking, ball busting, skull cracking list that will make sure that victory will be ours. If you want to join feel free to offer comments and criticism.

High Elves - 2500 points

Core -
13 Archers, Musician
2 x 5 Ellyrian Reavers
14 Silver Helms, Full Command

Special -
21 Phoenix Guard, Musician, Standard Bearer
21 White Lions, Champion  Musician, Standard-Bearer

Rare -
2 x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
2 x Frostheart Phoenix

Heroes -
Mage, Dispel Scroll [Lore of High Magic]
Noble, BSB, Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Ithilmar barded steed, Potion of Foolhardiness, Star Lance, Luckstone

Lords -
Archmage, Book of Hoeth, L4 Wizard, Talisman of Preservation [Lore of Shadow]

Grand Total: 2498 points

[rothgar13]

I think you're missing the Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding. Everything else seems fine.

[Fandir Nightshade]

So Rothgar I hope you are on my team.
 

[rothgar13]

You betcha! Eager to see how this list does.

[sammay23]

I'm in. I want to learn as much about this list as possible. Lets whip some codpiece-wearin, puffy sleeved Empire wussypants!

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I'm in. I want to learn as much about this list as possible. Lets whip some codpiece-wearin, puffy sleeved Empire wussypants!

Fandir.  Rothgar.  Sammay.  Oh my.     

Empire is in trouble....   

[cisse]

I'll join here as well. Woudld like to play against Empire for a change.

Fandir, your list: I like it, but... no great eagles? I love great eagles! I know that reavers can do the same jobs to an extent, but I still think 1-2 eagles are a must have in every HE list. Especially against an army where we might expect to see artillery (eagles do great against them) and big units of infantry (redirecting is fun! if you're doing it, at least).

[Fandir Nightshade]

To say the truth...I too miss the eagles the question would be where we could find those 100 points we need for two?

I think that we could strip our archmage of the ward save....if we play it right he will never see cc....if he sees cc we are in trouble anyway and a flimsy ward won´t save him the only thing we need it for might be sniping and miscasts. I think we should be able to prevent the first and with the book and rolling rather few dices per spell mitigate the second...that would be 45 points ...another 5 points could be stripped of the bsb`s luckstone......making one eagle. Any ideas for the second?

[cisse]

Agreed with the changes you propose.

Hard to find the points for the second eagle... Perhaps with the two units of reavers, one is enough. If not, the only option I see (besides lowering the numbers of the elite regiments, which I think is a bad idea) is to drop 3 archers and change one Frost Phoenix to a Firebird. Flaming hits againts massed infantry? Yes please.

But I know you like your frosties, so... 

[Fandir Nightshade]

The Frostheart is sooooo much better than the firebirdy....you can dump him into infantry regiments and he will eat those up over the time due to his attacks and thunderstomp and even Greatswords only wound him on 6+, he can even go toe to ....well claw with a steam tank in cc as the stank too only wounds him on 5+ and he also has a ward save.

So the Frosty won´t go away...the reavers hmm....well I think they are a bit better as an eagle if you compare them point by point as they have five wounds and 10 attacks (true only 5 of them S4 and only on the charge but still) but 5 of them with re rolls to hit. Also with the vanguard movement they can be behind the enemy lines as soon as turn 1. 12+18 >> 20 We just have to learn to use the buggers.

But one eagle is always a good idea.

[cisse]

OK, one eagle it is. As I said, I know you love the Frosties so expected this. 

I find eagles still a bit easier to use than reavers. The main difference is reavers can move normally when they have rallied after fleeing a charge; the eagle on the other hand is more manouvrable than the reavers (they are "only" fast cav; eagles fly).

 It's a matter of preference, really. I prefer to have two eagles and one unit of reavers (with spear and bow + musician), but to each his own. Looking forward to trying and making multiple units of reavers work!

[Mathi Alfblut]

Well if you want a spearelves fanboyfreak on your team, here I am.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Well in that case mathi sadly you will have to command the reserves. On the other hand i think the phenix guard is speary enough

[rothgar13]

The problem with the Eagle is not its points cost, frankly. I could carve 100 points out of pretty much anywhere without batting an eyelash over it. It's that it comes out of Rare, and that's where the beloved Frostbirds and the useful Eagle Claws (especially against Empire and its abundance of 1+ armor saves) come from, and we're maxed out. Unless you can present a convincing argument that you can somehow replace the Bolt Thrower's firepower in order to make room for the Great Eagles, I say we sit them out of this fight. Also, I abhor Flamespyre Phoenixes. The opportunity cost for taking one is massive IMO.

One thing I would like to at least see a little discussion about is the Lore on our Scroll caddy. I originally championed High Magic because he was supposed to sit in a unit of Phoenix Guard and pump them up with that Lore attribute, but now that doesn't figure to be in our plans. I like Drain Magic and Soul Quench a lot, but I'd like to hear any compelling arguments for other Lores. Fire? Metal? Beasts? Light? Shadow?

[Fandir Nightshade]

Metal....hmm more anti tank anti demi potential is rather nice. If he goes along the arch mage a souldrain would be about as lethal 24 inches is enough range with ld 9 against the 7 of the stank he is ahead by 2 AND he could get additional dice for the big boss.

I think death magic would be rather nice.....except that they might take us for dark elves using death and shadow magic 

I really would like to have ld 10 for the death mage though.....can´t we put him on a horse and grand the silver helmets the banner of discipline to pump them up to 10? Might limit the use of the Silver helmets though or he walks with the white lions they get the banner ...nope only ld 9 as they can´t use the general any longer....hmmmmmmm


I still think we can skip on the ward save on the big guy perhaps rather hand him the crown of atratzar 4 life is nice too

[rothgar13]

OK, let's entertain that possibility. What would we use the ensuing 35 points of space on then? L2 upgrade for the caddy? Fencer's Blades for the Archmage to make him harder to hit? Free up a little more and grab the Banner of the World Dragon for the White Lions/Razor Standard for the Phoenix Guard?

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think lvl 2 and death mage COULD be fun..... a purple sun would make them sweat the whole game 

I think we shouldn´t think about kitting the archmage for cc....we should have the chaff superiority and even if some light units would make it past the white lions and phenix guard...AND the frosties and the silver helmets...the archer body guard strikes before them with re rolls to hit...should be enough to deal with them...on the other hand a captasus could make it through and mean trouble.


DAMN Sammay to teach the dog a new trick.   

[sammay23]

Ha! But! We have some nice anti-captasus bolt throwers. Let's just hope they don't take four...  That could be difficult.

I'd say that metal could be very useful for the lvl 2. Without knowing what their composition will be, metal is nicely flexible with good buffs and magic missiles. It's strong where we're weak - hitting armor hard.

My one concern is that they'll take 2 steam tank and 2 cannon. They're probably suspecting 2xFrostie, and preparing their guns. This is where reavers are not as good as eagles. Fliers generally can get into artillery combats by turn 2, 3 at the latest.

I suppose we could hit the cannons with our Frosties and then bring them in behind infantry after they've dealt with the threat.

Also, if we're taking a lvl 4 shadow, why Phoenix Guard, when we could have lots more spearelves to mindrazor?

[rothgar13]

I don't know - between the Vanguard move and an 18" march, I expect Reavers to reliably engage war machines by turn 2 (and unlike Eagles, the only way cannons are insta-gibbing Reavers is with a flank shot). And a L2 Metal also has a decent shot at landing Enchanted Blades, which would be pretty great.

As for Spear-elves... just not a fan, even with Mindrazor at our fingertips.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Phenix guard still has a 4+ ward and they can do ok without magic support.

[cisse]

Still, we have to remember that we're fighting Empire. Against state troops, spearelves will do well I think. OK phoenix guard are still my favourite, but hitting on 3's with rerolls, and that in 4 ranks? Yes please!

[Mathi Alfblut]

I sense you all are week in your elf fu! A true Asur loves his Spears to Death and beyond! 

And mind you, they come pretty cheap, for elves. And a block of 25, in 5x5, will dish out 21 attacks. An Empire infantry horde will be though, but these spearelves may have a chance of holding up said horde pretty well. A halberdier unit would sure wound more (or would they?) but would only be able to land 21 attacks max on the Spears so in attack they even out. 

Also, who will bother with the Spears having all the other nasties you lot plan to throw into the list. The spears may very well get ignored by the opponent.
So I would suggest a block of 25 spears. Make them 24 and field them 5x5 with a character. A loremaster for example, or a fighty archmage packing Fencers blades could go there.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Well what spears can do archers can do about as good except for the 5+ save and 1 additional rank (still fighting in three ranks) I think the core is rather crammed already with good choices. Mathi what would you drop for the spears?

[sammay23]

I think our list is solid. No doubt.

I've seen phoenix guard tarpitted pretty easily, and wonder if it might be nice to have two small units of Swordmasters instead? Again, not saying we need to do this, but I always like more units, and SMs have the ability to have a small footprint and still deal beautiful damage.

Do we really need more durability here? Our Phoenixes will handle large infantry blocks beautifully... and knights... our white lions have excellent damage output... reavers give good options for redirecting... I don't see us having too much of a problem with even three horde-type blocks. I'm just not really seeing the benefit of having those PG, when we already have the problem of infantry grind pretty well handled.

Hell, I'd almost be inclined to take more archers over the PG. Not to hate, but I just don't see what role they fill that other units can't fill better in this list.