Topic: Werewolves in WHFB (oh, and I'm back on duty)

[Gneisenau]

Cheers everyone,

my goodness, hardly three months have I been away and already this place is crawling with new topics! It's lucky you can't see how pale and emaciated I have become due to my long absence from this lovely place...

(though preparing for final state exams had it's share in that as well).

Alright, I've got a fairly simple question for the loremasters. Are werewolves, or lycantrophs for the philologists here, featured in the WHFB-background at all? And if so, in what form?

As far as I can see it, fantasy literature has been dealing with werewolves in two ways. The "classic" incarnation uses the man-wolf as a form of undead (latest appearance in Terry Pratchett's discworld), and I know that there are rumours that lycantrophs will be part of the new VC-armies. According to this fluff, everyone can become a werewolf by getting bitten.

Others regard the werewolf as a wolf/man-crossover which is very much alive and not undead at all (World of Darkness, and also AD&D IIRC). This type, or rather a cat/man-crossover, is mentioned in the Beasts of Chaos armybook. Such creatures have their abilities due to genetics, and there's no way a human being can become one of them.

Are there any other, perhaps older references? If so, what information do they yield about werewolves in general - for example, whether they have to shapeshift in certain moon phases, or whether they can do it at will, whether they are undead or not etc.?

Thanks in advance as usual.

[McKnight]

There is a mention of were creatures in the old Warhammer roleplay core book V.1.

ahrem

"The Old Worlders still live in fear of Werewolves, the shape-changers that haunted the forests of old - and perhaps still linger there today. Werecreatures are basically humans capable of changing to the form of another creature, usually a wolf.
(...)
Human Werecreatures can change into any one shape other than their own. This is usually a wolf in the Old World.

Psycological traits:
All Werecreatures are subject to frenzy and while in frenzy they must make a successful WP test or change to beast form until the frenzy subsides, when they must make a successful WP test in order revert into human form.

It also says that when in beast form they have the profile of the animal, hence they wont actually be super overpowered.

Given the information i just wrote down, hints that one can chose to change form, but is still not totally in control of when to come back to human form.

Sounds like an interesting project ?

Edit: Oh yea, it doesnt mention how to become a werecreature...

[Big Time]

In the VC book, the Von Carstein bloodline can shapeshift into wolves. Steven Savile's Von Carstein trilogy makes mention of Vampires shifting to wolf form as well very often, especially in the first book. I don't know if this is what you had in mind. Also in the first Von Carstein book there are huntsmen out hunting large wolves that are shapeshifters, though it is unclear that they are Vampires. I think the reader is supposed to make the assumption that they are.

In the game HeroQuest, in the Elf Quest Book, the heroes can be turned into werewolves in at least one of the quests in the traditional werewolf sense of being bitten by the wolves in the quest. Heroquest is more or less a GW production and it does take place in the Warhammer world.

Also, if I remember correctly, there is a DoW character that can shapeshift into a bear. That being the case, I see no reason there can't be werewolves.

[Shadoweyed]

There is also fluff in the Hordes of Chaos 6th Ed. about Werekin. Not really werewolves, but very similar. Brought around by Chaos, yet looked down upon by many chaos champions. I believe that in the Storm of Chaos book Archaon also killed a large number of said Werekin.

Don't know if that helps...

-shadoweyed

[Rufas the Eccentric]

I live in fear of Were-Fluffy-Bunnys. 

Oh, welcome back.  P.I.O.M.T.

[McKnight]

I live in fear of Were-Fluffy-Bunnys. 

Oh, welcome back.  P.I.O.M.T.

Actually i would be more afraid of Were Snails... they actually exist in the warhammer universe

[Midaski]

........... and there is the RoR unit - Beorg is a were-creature and modelled as such.

Details in the Annuals/Chronicles

[Dendo Star]

He's a werebear my good English.  I understand that one as aloof as you may not be able to differentiate between the two.

I believe things like Gnomes, Weremonsters, Half-Orcs/Elves/Dwarfs/etc. and a slew of other species/creatures have been purposefully "forgotten" by GW and they have been swept under the rug to re-write history of the Warhammer world.

Oh!  And the Sea Elves.  They made them disappear bad!

[Midaski]

I am so aloof that I couldn't be arsed to go look it up - which actually wasn't necessary because I had him in my hand about 3 hours ago, during a sort out - and I actually looked up the unit to see if they should have been on 20 or 25mm bases ....................


and I didn't find the answer.

[Dendo Star]

Regular dude unit basess - they're all normal Marauders aside from the Bearguru.

The Bearman is also a normal human-sized base.

[Midaski]

Regular dude unit basess (which planet are we on today???) - they're all normal Marauders (=25mm) aside from the Bearguru.

The Bearman is also a normal human-sized (=20mm) base.

 

I've been doing a bit of sorting out in my games room, and my youngest son has a Chaos army he hasn't touched for 3-4 years.

I got it out on the table today.
He has a unit of 12 of the new foot marauders with flails which are on the currently correct 25mm bases, but he also has some old metal marauders.

Some have flails, and some have two handed weapons - these were mixed in the same box as Beorg's bearmen who have their axes in one hand.
All of these minis are on 20mm bases - the basic marauders should be on 25mm, but my bases chart doesn't include DoW or RoR.

You see I reckon the original box set came with 20mm bases - it was made before all the Chaos Marauders were changed to 25mm.

So where's the proof for DoW or RoR?

 

[Rufas the Eccentric]

You have bigger problems than base size.  The inquisition has finally found the source of the Chaos influence that has been plaguing the Imperial Revenue and Taxation Service.  Fortunately, it's nothing that a little fire won't cure.

Oh, WYZER1! 

[Dendo Star]

Marauders take big Orc/Dryad bases?!  I had no idea, I've never played against Hordes Of Chaos!

I just thought that when I saw them they had those bases...

[Rufas the Eccentric]

The Special Rules for Beorg states: "Like all Norse Maruders, Beorg and his men are subject to the rules for frenzy"

Therefore it follows that they use the same bases as standard Marauders: 25mm.

[Dendo Star]

Yeah, I knew they had the same bases as Marauders. 

When I saw the Bearmen I simply assumed I saw 20mm bases.  Just got confused since I assumed all Warhammer humans had 20mm bases.  Chaos Warriors aside.

[Big Time]

Therefore it follows that they use the same bases as standard Marauders: 25mm.

When I saw the Bearmen I simply assumed I saw 20mm bases.  Just got confused since I assumed all Warhammer humans had 20mm bases.  Chaos Warriors aside.

Herein lies the problem. The DoW Marauders are Norse Marauders, Chaos are Chaos Marauders. At no time in the DoW rules does it specify base size.

The Chaos Marauders were given the big bases to unify the Chaos army and so that Chaos heroes and characters could join the unit without basing issues. This is not an issue for DoW.

Also, the Norse Marauders in the DoW unit, while having like stats, are more expensive. Even if you add the extra point for the light armor, they are still more expensive by one point. They are not the same unit.

I don't know the answer (FAQ, GamesWorkshop?) but just because Chaos is 25mm doesn't necessarily mean the DoW unit is.

If I am missing something in the rules please let me know.

[Warlord]

I bought Beorg a year or so ago, and he came with a 20mm base.

Whats more, I believe I read on my base chart that Norse Marauders were on 20mm bases and I was surprised.

Looking at the picture of this unit compared to other infantry units around them, as well as my based Beorg compared to his picture, I would say with a high level of certainty that they are based on 20mm bases.

[Probe]

I am so aloof that I couldn't be arsed to go look it up - which actually wasn't necessary because I had him in my hand about 3 hours ago, during a sort out - and I actually looked up the unit to see if they should have been on 20 or 25mm bases ....................

20 mm ones. The answer, albeit an old one is here:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/assets/base-chart.pdf

[McKnight]

Regular dude unit basess (which planet are we on today???) - they're all normal Marauders (=25mm) aside from the Bearguru.

The Bearman is also a normal human-sized (=20mm) base.

 

I've been doing a bit of sorting out in my games room, and my youngest son has a Chaos army he hasn't touched for 3-4 years.

I got it out on the table today.
He has a unit of 12 of the new foot marauders with flails which are on the currently correct 25mm bases, but he also has some old metal marauders.

Some have flails, and some have two handed weapons - these were mixed in the same box as Beorg's bearmen who have their axes in one hand.
All of these minis are on 20mm bases - the basic marauders should be on 25mm, but my bases chart doesn't include DoW or RoR.

You see I reckon the original box set came with 20mm bases - it was made before all the Chaos Marauders were changed to 25mm.

So where's the proof for DoW or RoR?

 

Time to get into the jail house Herr Midaski. All your personal effects will be confiscated and auctioned within the order to highest bidder. All your acclaimed tax money through the years will have to be repaid..... to the inquisition.
See you at your verdict in the inquisition tread.

Note that Midaski's arrest will not affect any beer bills put on Midaski's tab. They will not be paid by the inquisition, but by Midaski, who will have to work for the tab off*.

*Done by cleaning rooms in Madam R's for 1442 years (and counting).

[Shadowwolf]

Well, back on topic, there is the Wood Elf Alter Noble. Running around with M9 sure has something to do with changing... It is even described in their fluff.

Shadowwolf

[Gneisenau]

Oh, welcome back.  P.I.O.M.T.

Thank you 

Thanks everybody else for the replies. It seems that GW has avoided a clear answer so far. The von Carstein bloodline power is probably a reference to the "wolf form"-myth, not to werewolves.
I remember Beorg, but the annual doesn't give much information on him. Does anybody have the original DoW armybook from 5th edition?

Well, back on topic, there is the Wood Elf Alter Noble. Running around with M9 sure has something to do with changing... It is even described in their fluff.

Hm, that's funny, I hadn't thought about this. The Amulett of the Jaguar Warrior mentions something that can be interpreted as shapeshifting, if one feels inclined, as well.

So basically, if I want to include a werewolf in the background, it's up to me. That's just fine.

[Doop123]

So basically, if I want to include a werewolf in the background, it's up to me. That's just fine.

cool

[McKnight]

So basically, if I want to include a werewolf in the background, it's up to me. That's just fine.

ACtually... we would have to burn you... Werewolves are things of chaos, well, it think they are!