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Offline General Helstrom

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2006, 08:26:41 PM »
Rufas: I would not recommend Hirst Arts for building a castle. Although it's a fine product with many great uses, anything much larger than a guardhouse would be a horrendous task. Hell, even the guardhouse took us long enough :) Even if you use the wall mold (or better yet, a few of them, and some regular block and accessory molds, setting up a production line), casting enough pieces to make a castle is going to be an enormous task. Then you have to build it - which I guess would be kinda fun, like LEGO. But once built, it will weigh a ton, which is going to cause problems in storage, transport, and handling.

There is one "maybe" - maybe if you use one or more different materials. Something that sets quicker and weighs less. Here is an article of some guy who build Helm's Deep using HA molds and resin. You could experiment with different stuff.
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Offline Marcus Leitdorf

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 06:12:03 AM »
I would have to agree with the General Rufas. I have looked at the Hirst product several times but the cost kind of threw me off. Sooo... being the cheapskate I am, I made my own, sort of.  :-D I cut up a bunch of 1/4" thick cheap hardboard into 1/4" strips and then cut those into blocks of varying lengths. I roughed-up the edges with a Dremell rotary tool before I cut out the individual blocks, Then just drug the ends across some sandpaper to bevel them a bit.

The major problem is the tedium of stacking all the blocks, not to mention making them. Here is a shot of a finished wall section, an unfinished corner section, a gate post, and some unassembled blocks.

 

I made twelve of the wall sections and it was pretty time consuming. I would not want to do an entire castle this way, though it would probably look pretty cool!

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Offline ieloks

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 10:15:58 AM »
Playmobil stuff is indeed out of scale, way too large. I think Mebabloks sets might be just what's needed size-wise, they are also much more esthetically pleasing than /ugly/ LEGOs. Thing is, I cannot find any on the internet, although (I think) I seen some in stores. Meanwhile, the closest Empire-related thing from Megabloks I've seen so far is this:
http://www.megabloks.com/en/products/description.php?level=2&level2=1&lId=0&iID=836&subCat=25&cat=1
Not really a castle, but maybe useful if you're planning to beat some baddies off the coast. And very pretty.
/keeps skimming through sites skifor megabloks castles/
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Offline Midaski

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 11:33:27 AM »
As far as I know there are three of us on this site who have got Hirst Arts moulds: General H has already chimed in, and then there is Vincent of Vega, who is the head man at TWF and lastly my good self.

If you searched here, or on TWF for some of VoV's links/posts you will see his efforts - he is a maniac though as he is casting bricks 24/7 it seems. :wink:

I bought several moulds last year direct from Bruce at Hirst Arts, after much advice from VoV, and he added some moulds to the order so we both benefitted from discount for a bulk buy.
It was actually better costwise to order direct from the USA than buy in the UK, and there was more choice of moulds too I think.

Over the years I have experimented with various ways of making scenery, particularly buildings, and am reasonably happy with our woods and hills, but never felt totally happy with card or foamboard buildings, or even simple walls from bits of polystyrene.
Admittedly my painting skills do little to enhance them. :wink:

In my opinion Hirst Arts moulds are fantastic, but they do take a lot of castings to get the necessary components for a big build. Most scenery is time consuming anyway, and I had been prepared to invest the time before in something that didn't always turn out successfully anyway.
With this product you are spending time making really good components, that you know are pretty much guaranteed to look great.

The main problem is with walls - the system started I guess for Dungeons and Dragons players and there are some really nice 'architectural pieces' moulds. When you want lots of bricks for big sections of walls is where the time really bites.
Each mould is about 6" x 4", and maybe if it is practically possible the range could do with, say, a couple of large moulds just to churn out bricks in quantity.
Something 12" square for example would increase production and reduce time enormously, but I am not sure if it is a manufacturing possibility.


You need to set up an area for production and then organise yourself to just cast loads of pieces.
I get into a routine where I cast on our battle table, whilst doing other bits on my worktable in my gaming room.
I have had several plays at small pieces of scenery, and though you learn from experience, there is no doubt they are much much better than my old card polystyrene or foamboard scenery.
The other beauty is that it does have the flexibility of Lego in that what you build is only limited by your imagination.


Relevant to the initial discussion about using pre-made castles I did a lot of exploring on this a couple of years back, and certainly what has been posted is pretty cost effective, and good imaginative accessorising, converting and painting goes a long way, but I always found something that put me off, mainly arising from these other points that we had considered:

The wall heights - we have siege towers and ladders, so they need to be compatible.

The ramparts space as well, is critical - you need to allow for the various bases combinations that might be invoved in battle. Current siege rules I think, allow a single rank of each army to fight, so immediately you could have 2 infantry bases 25x25, but what happens if you need to make room for a character or monster base on 40 or 50mm bases as well?

Then there is the need for room for war machines - a lot of the towers I have seen do not have appropriate space.

The interiors too - to comment on the 'back of the walls' bit mentioned earlier, - I do feel the castle walls should look as good from the inside, and have a sense of depth and strength.
The walls of Middenheim piece shown on the GW US site last year was pretty fantastic, and I particularly liked the details in the interior, such as stairways and lean-to buildings such as stabling stalls etc.

Weight for me is not an issue - something substantial will resist the gaming wear and tear much better, and I doubt any pieces will venture far from my gaming room very often anyway.


Having considered all this I felt, and still do, that a custom built solution is the real answer, and though it will take time I have made my choice...... :wink:


We are currently amassing stockpiles for our castle project.
The plan is for several basic identical wall sections that will both interlink and 'attach' to various towers.
We have worked out plans for towers built in sections that would allow the tower to be used as a stand alone, or by inserting an extra or different 'middle' section the tower would line up with the walls with appropriate doors to give access to the ramparts of the wall sections.
The object is to give us the set up variety to have a complete castle attackable from all sides, or to run a wall and tower combination right across the board.

The idealistic future would be to play a 'city' siege campaign, where the walls could fall and then you are into a 'city fight' through the streets, and maybe then going further to the Inner Keep (which is the castle bits reformed ) last stand.
[ Ok, so much like the General's current plans for his farewell to 6th Edition. :wink: ]








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Offline jlutin

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2006, 01:31:39 PM »
My current, favorite method is to build it out of blue (or pink) styrofoam.  Then lightly cut the blocks out with an exacto knife, texture it with a rough rock, then push in some blocks and "knife" some for dings, cracks and other imperfections.  Paint and drybrush and you are done.  It looks great, is sturdy enough after you seal it and low cost.

Just be sure and paint/drybrush it fairly quickly after you texture since it can spring back some over time.

US GW has some articles on this method.
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Offline wisenheimer

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2006, 02:35:15 PM »
Rufas -

I'm actually a fan of the Hirst molds. They work great and look really good. Having said that though, there are some serious downsides that you need to consider.

When Bruce says you need to pour this mold 17 times to make this piece, he's really says, it'll take months to make enough bricks. It takes about a half an hour to do a pouring, but somehow, that always turns into one or two a day. You'll always need to pour more than need because of voids too. Then they need to dry. Three days seems about right.

If you decide to go this route, try to get dental plaster. You can drop it from waist height and not break it. Lightweight Hyrdocal isn't recommended, but I've used it. It works fine and weighs a lot less.

Resin is my favorite material. It mixes and sets and in 10 minutes and once it sets, the bricks are ready to use. There are several downsides to using resin though. First, you'll need a level surface. With plaster, you can over pour and scrape the excess, with resin, if you overpour, your bricks will be misshaped. You need a piece of glass to ensure the bottoms are smooth for usability.

Second, you need mold release. Liberal amounts sprayed on the mold and the glass work very well, but also prevent paint from sticking to the finished bricks. You need to seriously scrub them and depending on the texture, you may not get it all off. It's not the end of the world, it's just a pain.

Third, resin can cause respiratory problems for a small percentage of people. Be careful, use a mask and don't use it around small children and pets.

I agree with Midaski that buying in bulk is cheaper overall. Buying multiples of the same mold can also reduce the turn-around time for making a piece. However, I'd suggest picking up the small brick mold to start with. It's an extremely useful mold.

You can make wells, custom bases, garden walls, altars, shrines etc. with it. You can usually start making pieces with a single pouring as well. I think it's a good place to start as it'll give you an idea of what's involved and it is usable almost immediately.

Offline PissedYeti

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2006, 12:33:56 PM »
I hate you guys sometimes. As if I didn't have enough stuff to work on you point me at Hirst molds and I am now trying to figure out which ones to get. Between this and my recent board game fixation I feel fairly comfortable in saying that my kids will no longer need to watch TV or play video games and I am very happy with that. Once you mentioned Legos I was done for. The boys and I can spend some serious time playing with blocks of any sort so this is going to be a new era in my family and I have you guys to thank for it. Now I'm loving you guys ... maybe the near release of the new rules is making me all emotional and stuff. Don't look at me ... sniff ...
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Offline wisenheimer

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2006, 12:52:32 PM »
This probably won't help...

Legos are actually a good substitiution for Hirst bricks. You need to file the edges of each brick to create a bevel, texture the surface for painting, and glue the bricks together, but the results can be quite impressive.

Offline ieloks

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2006, 03:24:59 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly with above posts that DIY terrain, especially such as by Marcus and other dab handsat this website, is head and shoulders above anything money can buy, but for the folks lazy/unskilled as myself, I - no, didn't find anything from Megabloks - but came upon the Russian Zvezda's castles and stuff, as seen here:
http://ageofbattles.ru/index.php?lng=eng&nav=accessories
These are affordable by any standards, appear to be quite decent and, above all, are about the right size. Occasionally the parts may refuse to fit, but that should not be much of a problem to an Empire player who has ever assembled the steam tank. The only problem is I cannot find any online store or anything of the kind at the site. If anyone can, please let me know how you did it.
Oh, and I retract my criticisms of LEGO - just yesterday me and my son happened to build our first ever lego police van, and had loads of fun.
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Offline Midaski

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2006, 08:00:45 PM »
Zvezda's stuff looks great and Imperial Forge had a post and some pics of their minis as well  some time ago.

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,74/topic,820.msg9167#msg9167


I think a few of us hunted for sources, and to confirm the scale, but were unsuccessful - discussion in this topic.

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,74/topic,6460.0


IIRC 'Urban Mammoth' did have a box or two of the minis at Salute 2005.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 08:12:41 PM by Midaski »
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline duckman

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2006, 05:09:24 AM »
I've got me 3 of the various castles that are made by Zvezda, they are fantastic. The scale is pretty much spot-on, and the best bit is that they produce wall extensions and single towers to upsize your castle. Cheap as chips is the part I liked best when I was buying them, for the price of a GW fortress I bought 2 of the Zvezda royal castles, good or what?
Not too sure how much use this will be to those not in Australia, but have a look at Frontline Hobbies' website, they have all the Zvezda gear, and they do mail order all over the joint. With the $AU as weak as it is, those of you in the UK, and US, shouldn't be too hurt by the cost of them. If any of you have dramas with getting hold of stuff from Frontline, PM me, I have a man on the inside....

cheers
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Offline ieloks

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2006, 10:30:50 AM »
Oops, should have looked Zvezda up on the forums before posting. The controversy about the scale is confusing though, especially when Duckman says it's spot-on. Which is more than convincing, so I'll probably try to get ahold of a Zvezda castle or two  8)
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Offline BAWTRM

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Re: Imperial Castle - WIP with pics
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2006, 10:53:02 AM »
@Duckman:

I'm a bit confused, a search for 'Zvezda royal castle' only finds me a kit that is described as a 1/72 kit.

Like here for example: http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalog/modelkits.php?manufacturers_id=13861%3FZvezda&sort=3a&page=5

Is that really the castle you're talking about?
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