Topic: New member/player seeks advice on 500 pt list.

[Falcatarius]

Hey Guys,

I've been lurking on the forum for a while and have been very impressed with the community here! I was hoping to get your feedback on a building a decent 500 point list. I’m a newcomer to the Empire and I’m really out of touch with the rules (played GW games as a teen between 2002-2006) I’d love some advice on getting a decent 500 point force.

Two stipulations:
1)Unfortunately no-one I know plays any GW games and I am not expecting this army to see much action, hence my being unwilling to put the time/money in past 500 points. That said, I’ve always enjoyed making strong army builds as much as the modeling aspect so I’d still like a viable list. If I can find some other players in my area I would definitely expand this to 750 or 1000.
2)In terms of fluffiness, I’m a big history geek and I love the Empire’s resemblance to a Renaissance army. Tooling a decent list towards that resemblance seems challenging and I was wondering how possible that is.

Currently I’ve purchased/painted up the following. I have no other models and was wondering where to go with my next buy.
Swordsmen x10
Handgunner x8
Spearmen x8

Here is my tentative list feel free to break it right apart. (this is all off a 6th edition book I had lying around, correct me when wrong/outdated)

Tentative edits made from suggestions by Gneisenau and Delthos.

Hero:
Captain
Sword of Might
Additional HW
Full Plate Armor
Total: 77

Core Units:
Swordsmen x24
Full Command
Total: 193

Handgunners x10
Total: 80

Handgunners x10
Total:80

Special Units:
Mortar

Army total: 505

I figure the captain would join the swordsmen.

Thanks in advance for all your help!
-Tom

[Gneisenau]

Hello and welcome!

If I understand you correctly, you are not actually collecting to play, since you have no opponents?
I would recommend against using a unit of 10 halberdiers. They will die like mayflies and cause panic checks.

For your next buy, my suggestion would be to look at ebay, to see whether somebody sells one of the old starter boxes. For example, the 6th edition starter box would give you

19 spearmen
18 handgunners
1 character on horse
1 artillery (cannon or mortar)

Hope this helps!

[Delthos]

Don't invest in command for a 10 man unit of halberdiers. That's a waste of points. If you are going to give them command, I'd bump them up to being at least a 25 man unit. Then as you'll have 5 extra statetroop models, bump the swordsmen up to 25 as well.

As I recently experienced in a 500 point game, it's really tough to make a good list for all comers. If you were ever to face a Warriors of Chaos army, a big unit of Marauders with Greatweapons and the mark of Khorne will eat this list for lunch.

I'd say drop the cannon and go for a Mortar. It will be of much greater use in a 500 point game. A big horde will be much more difficult to deal with. That's not to say that there aren't any other tough units that a mortar will have a hard time with, but I think it's the best compromise at this points level.

So this is something I'd consider.

Captain, Fullplate, Shield, Sword of Power, and Ironcurse Icon (105 Points)
25 Swordsmen, Full Command (175 Points)
25 Halberdiers, Full Command (145 Points)
Mortar (75 Points)

The only thing this lacks is good magic defense, which will be really tough for any army to deal with at this points level. Fortunately an opponent will be extremely limited in his magic offense as well due to the 125 points restriction on heroes and lords.

[Falcatarius]

Thanks Gneisenau! Great to be here.

Yeah basically I have the potential for a fluffier army due to the lack of opponents. That said, I'd still like something that would stand a chance if I managed to find a few.

Painting is a long and arduous process for me, much as I love the finished result. So i'm not inclined to get a whole bunch of figures at once like the boxed set. Better for me to buy a few and finish them to boost my morale for the next lot. If I see a huge swathe of unpainted figures I just get discouraged. 

Delthos: That's great advice thanks very much! I will definitely alter the halberdiers setup as well as replace the cannon with a mortar.

I would really like to include handgunners for the sake of fluff but i'm getting the vibe that detachments are a bad idea in small games and a big units of them tend to under-perform. Is this true?

Edit: I've added 4 swordsmen to make a unit of 25 with the captain and removed the Halberdiers/Handgunner detachment. I've tentatively replaced them with two units of ten handgunners but i would be willing to go all-melee with the core troops if that really is the best idea. (with a list close to what Delthos suggested)

[Delthos]

If you are going to take the two units of handgunners, you may as well make them detachments for the swordsmen. That way if an opponent doesn't charge them and charges the parent instead, you'd be able to take advantage of their detachment rules to stand and shoot for their parent unit. They also won't cause panic if they flee, which will be really important in a small game like this. If you are taking them, there really is no downside to taking them as detachments, other than they have to deploy within 3" of their parent, which in some situations, could be problematic.

Also, you won't be able to use the additional handweapon with the magic weapon on the character, so you can drop it.

Two units of handgunners could work out nicely at this points level. The only thing you really have to worry about is scouts. Make sure you deploy so that your opponent can't deploy scouts in your backfield, as your mortar and handgunners will not do well if you allow it to happen. Two 5 man units of Dark Elf shades can really ruin your day. I didn't follow that advice in a small point game about a month ago and I really suffered for it.