home

Author Topic: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review  (Read 3389 times)

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« on: July 04, 2010, 12:41:01 PM »
So I had my 1st game of 8th, I don't have a battlefield generator or I'd do a proper report for you. Instead I'll mention the lists and various pros and cons we discovered with 8th.

Now both my mate and I have read the book cover to cover but we'd forgotten most of it, I had printed out the magic items, magic lists and summery sheets so we had something.

His list:
Lord on foot with new common sword granting ASF, potion of strength, MoT and something else..
BSB on foot
Lv4 mage  - Fire - Signature, fireblast small template thing, burning head, flaming sword of ruin
Lv2 mage - MOT Gateway and d6hits, d6 str one, on disc.
Lv1 mage - MoT some ld ship one.

3x30 marauders, 5x6 formation, shields
2x10 warriors, halberds, MoK
4 ogres - greatweapons
Helcannon

My list:
Lv4 mage - black amulet, tome of furion (shadow)
Lv2 mage - sacrificial dagger, channeling amulet (+1 to channel, so 5+ to get 1 extra PD or DD) (metal)
Lv2 mage - dispel scroll (no rules for multiple scrolls I've seen so that means you can only get 1DS to my current knowledge) Stability sceptre (lets you ad 1d6 to a dispell attempt once a game). (metal)
BSB - Pendant, Amulet of foolhardieness (counts as devastating charge and immune to psych, 1 use only) halberd, all armour on Cold one

6 dark riders - muso
15 spearmen - full command banner of murder (armour piercing)
20 Corsairs - full command sea serpent banner (frenzy) in 3x6 +1 formation
2x10 bowmen
14 black guard - full command, Razor banner (common banner- counts as Armour piercing)
1 Cold one Chariot
2 bolt throwers
2 Hydras

1st off the game was a lot of fun. It's nice to see infantry pounding infantry. From my point of view, even more so Delves have become a DPS army and very very fragile. There were multiple times (Black guard, BSB in Dark riders, etc.) that I took out a swath of marauders (I got 14 wounds with my BG 1st round of combat only for my mate to pass 10 - 5+ ward saves....wtf) but the fact that I was being hit by 10 attacks back each turn, while only Str3 still hurt my units and it really became a guess of if I could break his unit sizes down fast enough before I broke.

Usually I broke, the BSB and DRiders, spearmen, hydras. Only the Blackguard performed consistently well (once they made combat) but then they lost 1/2 the unit doing it.

The Hydra's were beasts 2d6 str5 breath weapon, d6 str 5 megastomp, 7 str5, 6 str3 AP attacks on the turn they charge. 1 was in combat against a warrior block eating 5-6 guys a turn when the Lord, BSB and 1 warrior unit hit my flank. With stomp etc. I was able to kill enough to win combat although the lord eventually sliced me to shreds.

Also combat by I was very interesting. I was charged by ogres with greatweapons and flaming sword of ruin on them - which should have scared my hydra to bits. But with ASL on the greatweapons I got my handlers (who killed 1 ogre) breathweapon (which killed 1 ogre) and hydra attacks which killed a 3rd ogre and stomp took out the last ogre.

Magic was fun with it ebbing and flowing. Sometimes we were at the heights of 10PD and 6DD to 3PD and 2DD which made it interesting. We did have some trouble adjusting to the new style of magic. No long can you really throw out little low level magic missiles to get DD out as there is so much and with items and lv4's dispelling they can dispell these things with little trouble.

The broken concentration rule is annoying as hell both for Dispelling and casting but adds some flavour, so does choosing your lore before you play, tbh it would have been MILES better if you got to choose before the game. The idea that mages learn X or Y and they go out into the world makes it alot cooler. Sure you may go for the big spells but casting them while easier can still be difficult while random generation still has all the regular pitfalls.

That said magically not much really happened, I got pit of shades off on a 21, he dispelled on a 22, he got gateway off on 18 I dispelled on a 20...

Sure fireball and Signature metal got cast a few times but they're still the same as 7th ed so hardly too much to worry about.

New march blocking was annoying ld test and you ignore... well he entire army is ld8 so it's really a 50/50 if he'll ever get march blocked.

Same with charging at one point his ogres could see the heads of my hydra TLOS sucks... there was this big impassable rock between them that while he could charge he would need to wheel around and so on which in 7th would have taken him 10-11" So bordering fail charge range.

Now he rolled a 3 on his 2d6 so charge of 9". We weren't able to check but he sounded convincing on that now you draw a line and if the units are within the charge range you can move'em even though wheeling etc. may mean a failed charge. So he measured OVER the impassable terrain, I was within 9" as the bird flies and he got to move into range.

I'm yet to check this but it seemed odd - not that it mattered as I gobbled his entire unit anyway.

Actually we have a list of rules that we need to check such as do you get parry bonus to breathweapons used in combat, same in relation to stomp, range for out of unit Look Out Sir! and more importantly if I'm in short range of a character who passes his look out sir! when solo but within range of a unit does that mean I need to check my range against the unit before shooting (and possible be out of range or in long-range) or do I still shoot at short range but all hits go to the unit.

Eitherway warriors ended up winning as I just couldn't break his marauder units, each one only had between 8-15 guys left (well I did break one with my BG) but the attrition battle was won by my opponent.

Things for next time.

DRAGON!
Ring of Hotek will be ridiculous and I'm sticking it in my list with maybe a lv2 caddy/stability wizard for extra defence
BSB shouldn't be in combat unless really well protected a BSB that hangs behind the lines giving his boost is the way go to, going to stick mine on a death-hag/cauldron
Corsairs still suck


« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 08:46:38 AM by Nicholas Bies »
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Finlay

  • Members
  • Posts: 18635
  • C'mon Son
I don't know why you both spent so many points on mages. Because they don't generate PD you really only need a lvl 4 and a lvl 2 for back up.
Hydra only gets one breath attack a game, iirc.
And if you charge through terrain, you need to roll on a table. It can hurt you. (Ie knights charging through some woods, getting knocked off their horses by branches)
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
OH i thought this hadn't gone through (net trouble!) I'll take the pics of my dragon down as I posted in B&P.

We took mages because we both wanted to experiment and see what happens and tbh with broken concentrate moment you fail to cast with 1 mage then it can't cast anymore that phase (which kept happening to my lv4, try and lower I then cast pit of shades I'd fail 1 and my carefully laid plans would fail!)

I'm going with a dragon lord in the future and until the errata RoH is going to be incredibly nasty so He's going to be around on a character as well. I want to include a few more fighting characters to really bamp up my units.

I need to re-read the rules on charges cause like I said had he rolled high enough he could have moved around the rock and into contact but we were sure that now you just draw a line and if within then you can charge even though wheeling may take you over the limit. So he didn't really run through the rock but measured to see if within charge range if the above makes any sense at all.

I had 2 Hydras, 1 used it breathweapon against teh Ogres, 1 used it against the Marauders.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Moxer

  • Members
  • Posts: 871
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 10:52:39 AM »
As i read it, the measuring thruogh the terrain is OK. It is also OK if he then has to walk 15'' to get to you, the book states that they have infinite reach on a charge.  HOWEVER, he is only allowed to wheel ONCE (up to 90° ) during the charge (Plus the free wheel to align the units).
Just another imperial minotaur.

Offline McKnight

  • Members
  • Posts: 3557
  • Its the No. of posts that make you a veteran-gamer
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 05:03:15 PM »
I also had my first 8th games yesterday.. Also against the Warriors of chaos... Damn they have gotten really tough!
"Me? I'm practically perfect in every way!"- Rufas the eccentric.
Rufas had Two Ton Sally. I have Silicon Sally!
EuroBashes attended: 1

Offline Shadowlord

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 6058
  • ...
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 06:44:12 PM »
I also had my first 8th games yesterday.. Also against the Warriors of chaos... Damn they have gotten really tough!

Yes they are probably the army that was most boosted because it can have all elements of a hitty CC army (cheap troops that are nasty in horde, elite that have saves, and big guys with their up to three support attacks).
My hood is my castle...

Offline McKnight

  • Members
  • Posts: 3557
  • Its the No. of posts that make you a veteran-gamer
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 08:22:49 PM »
Yes so true Shadow..

Cheap, great marauders with great weapons. Super heroes that will pwn anything in smaller games. My friend used chaos warriors with the mark of tzeentch and got a super save against magic and shooting because of some banner and a magic resistance stuff... Man i hate them now.
"Me? I'm practically perfect in every way!"- Rufas the eccentric.
Rufas had Two Ton Sally. I have Silicon Sally!
EuroBashes attended: 1

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 03:32:11 AM »
Yea with HW/Shield marauders are a cheap way to pin the enemy in place.

I think you got to be careful of not getting too many characters because of how expensive it is. I think casting "Call to Glory" will be a great boon to their army.

Pin in place with marauders, hammer to death with MSU warriors or trolls etc.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Taureus

  • Members
  • Posts: 421
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2010, 05:07:56 AM »
You have to be within 3 inches of a unit in order to get a 4+ Look Out Sir.

And there is no Impassable Terrain in 8th, just Dangerous/Difficult. So he wouldn't have been prevented from charging over the obstacle (since it wasn't impassable), but he would have had to test against the terrain (a la 40k).
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 1st game of 8th Ed 2500pts Dark Elves vs Warriors
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2010, 05:25:28 AM »
Taurus,

Yea we confirmed a whole bunch of rules. I'm playing the same guy with a different list this afternoon (will update my list here shortly).

One thing though. It looks like this:

   
     OO
<--  OO
      IMPASSABLE/DIFFICULTERRAIN
     HYDRA

So the unit could see the heads of the hydra - LOS accepted
The Hydra was in the units front arc (looking to the left)

SO under the new rules you just measure, cause see if wheeling etc. was incl. there was no way hte Ogres would make it. But thats also out if within2d6+M distance it doesn't actually matter how fare the unit would ACTUALLY move they make it and you get a 90degree wheel to align...

The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 08:53:45 AM »
Dreadlord: Dragon, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, enchanted shield, Pendant, potion of strength, lance of strife - 572         
Master: Ring of Hotek, Charmed shield, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak - 138
Death hag : Cauldron of blood, BSB, rune of khaine, manbane - 275
Mage    : lv2, sceptre of stability, obsidian amulet - 180  DEATH magic
                        
Crossbow elves x10 w/shields - 100
Crossbow elves   x10 w/ shields -    100
Spear Elves  x34, full command, banner of murder, shields - 278
Dark riders x6, muso, herald RXBs - 159
                        
Black Guard x15 w FC champ with obsidian trinket -245
                        
Hydra - 175
Hydra - 175
Bolt Thrower - 100
                        
Pendant - reverse ward                        
Lance of Strife (sword of strife) +2 attacks                        
Potion of strength from BBRB - +3 strength                        
Ring of hotek - you know it                        
Charmed shield - 1st hit ignored on 2+                        
sceptre of stability - 1 use only, +d6 to dispell attempt                        
obsidian amulet - MR2                        
banner of murder - gains armour piercing                        
obsidian trinket - MR1                        
                        
Total pts per section   Total pts used                  
Lords         Max: 625             572                  
Heroes    Max: 625             593                  
Core         Min: 625             637                  
Special    Max:1250             245                  
Rare         Min: 625             450                  
         TOTAL LIST: 2497                  
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 09:10:06 AM by Nicholas Bies »
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 09:15:26 AM »
The army seems so .....small.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2010, 09:18:35 AM »
small but elite....



in 7th ed you can take out the master, the bolt thrower, 1/2 the spearmen, dark riders and add in 3 assassins and 2 units of shades. So my 7th ed was actually significantly smaller then this army!!

Really the dragon is still too expensive, should be left for 3-4k games but if you saw my B&P post you'll understand why I'm using him.

The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Taureus

  • Members
  • Posts: 421
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2010, 09:24:08 AM »
You only have one ranked unit... Minimum-sized X-bowmen don't count as ranked units.

And one unit of BG? Pshaw!

You're better off dropping the Hydras/Dragon for more units of footmen. (Hydra killing one unit of 4! chaos ogres =/= smashing success)

And by your own admission the dragon is too expensive at 2500...So why take it?
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 09:28:55 AM »
I take the dragon because:

A) I find it a lot of fun to play with
B) I like the model
C) I just completed it's wings as shown here: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=34322.0

yes I only have 1 unit of ranked. I'm playing warriors so the idea will be high dps and making his mage characters useless by having large spread MR and anti-magic items.

At the moment I have no more footmen, only cold one chariots and knights

The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 09:31:08 AM »
I say use the dragon it will be an uphill fight against infantry hordes but you will manage.

(get more x crossbows and field them in units 20 strong with banner and musician, canīt you get metal magic in there somehow?)

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2010, 09:34:48 AM »
I did contemplate metal but signature metal (d6 hits at str of enemys AS with no AS allowed) is a 10+ to cast, 15 or 20+ to get 2d6 hits.

with a single lv2 that means rolling 2d6 and odds are i'll be in RoH range. I figure 5-7+ cast value death will be good. Hell maybe I'll just cast Fear on units to help reduce warrior WS.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Taureus

  • Members
  • Posts: 421
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2010, 09:37:49 AM »
I take the dragon because:

A) I find it a lot of fun to play with
B) I like the model
C) I just completed it's wings as shown here: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=34322.0

yes I only have 1 unit of ranked. I'm playing warriors so the idea will be high dps and making his mage characters useless by having large spread MR and anti-magic items.

At the moment I have no more footmen, only cold one chariots and knights

Ace dragon! Not saying it shouldn't be used at all, but at 2500 it seems that you could spend points elsewhere.

Needing more models is restrictive of lists!

And don't forget that MR only works against "Direct Damage" spells.

And relying on Fear vs WoC = laughable (Mark of Slaneesh or Khorne = no one cares about your Fear!)
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2010, 09:38:17 AM »
Do you really think anyone will botch a fear check more than once in a couple of games? Generals Ld in most cases with re roll from the bsb.


Offline Taureus

  • Members
  • Posts: 421
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2010, 09:42:20 AM »
Do you really think anyone will botch a fear check more than once in a couple of games? Generals Ld in most cases with re roll from the bsb.

At 10 points for Slaneesh per unit, I'd not even bother worrying about needing to make rolls.
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2010, 04:44:25 PM »
Well game played, lost but it was a hilariously good time.

His list:

Lord - 3+ wardsave,
Lv4 - death magician of doom
lv2 on disc with moT, infernal gateway...
BSB with immune killing blow, collar of khorne, steed

23 warriors - lord, bsb in here, shields MOT
30 marauders- MOT
2x6 knights - MOT
6 marauder cav with spears
Hell cannon

we rolled for meeting engagement, I had my BT, mage and 1 unit of Xbows in reserve, he got his warriors, marauders, 1 unit of nights in reserve (incl all his characters).

Game was crazy, crap was dying left, right and centre, we finalized some rules (wish my old battle generator was still up so I could do a report for you).

the highlights were:
Dragon and Hydra charging the marauder inf at the same time and eating 14 guys round 1 and 9 more round 2
Lord, having been un-dragoned charged the last 2 ranks  of warriors holding lord, mage and bsb, challenged the lord. proceeded to do NOTHING for 5 rounds of combat, passing break tests on >4 fighting at only str3 T2 thanks to death magic etc. Eventually needing a 6 to wound, 3+AS, 3+ Ward I managed to score a wound (suffering none in return) before breaking and being run down but it was hilariously funny to see happen.

My crazy deathhag went into CRAZY mode, took on both units of Chaos knights and Marauder cav. while eventually she went down at the end only 2 chaos knights remained, thats right she killed 10 chaos knights and 6 marauder cav SOLO!

Anyway spear elves will be getting dropped in favour of 2x20 bowmen with FC and possibly a 3rd unit eventurally 220pts each so 3 units cover my core min.

20 black guard as 14 is just too few, probably try and slyly fit in a 3rd.

Ring of hotek under rules as written doesn't actually STOP the spell just causes a miscast so it's a deterrent but not a stop to magic. So probably drop the dragon for truely competitive lists and pick up a Dreadlord on foot or cold one and a lv4
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline phillyt

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 19276
  • Watching... always watching...
    • https://www.facebook.com/philip.estabrook.1
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 11:57:28 AM »
So have they already redone the ring?  I have not been paying attention.

Phil
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Members
  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 05:45:33 AM »
no just miscast doesn't mean the spell fails now, you just have to take the test. RoH causes a miscast it doesn't actually state "dispells the spell"
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: 2nd game of 8th tonight- Army list in thread for review
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 06:28:31 AM »
Well and with the puppet the chaos scum can modify the miscast...great item.