Topic: Dark Elves

[SaintofM]

I got into the game either late 6th edition or early 7th edition one day board in the all because I  went with my Mom while she was shopping, didn't want to just hang out in the women's department one day and found a Games Workshop store. I picked up the first book i saw, and went: You had me at knight riding dinosaur!

[Edit, old in red, new thoughts now the shooting phase rules have been made available.. And now that they have, very bottom will look at them]

Been playing them when I could since. Not the best player, but I was more of a lore and moddel guy in the hobby anyways.

So with some pretty pictures to break up the wall of text my thoughts on some of the units, not going into Special Charecters. Don't remember where I got most of the pics, just had them for a while
 
In general with army wide rules, I think they need to have hatred (reroll failed to hit rolls against their target, usually of a specific type such as Dwarven Hatred: Greenskins.) to everything and Eternal Hatred for High Elves, as that gives them better chances to hit. I don't think all elves need the Always Strike First rule (the unit always gets to strike first in melee. Depending on the edition, if they are fighting another unit with this either this will attack at the same time OR initiative order as usual. Also, if they have Always Strike Last which does the opposite and ASF the two rules cancel each other out), and yes this is coming from someone that appreciated its entry. Some elvin units like Dark Elf Assassins or High Elf Sword Masters of Hoath make sense to me as it fits their lore and would show off their mastery. However its way too overkill.


From there, lets start with the Core nits.


Dreadspears (Spearmen) Bleak Swords (swords and Sheild) and Dark Shards (Repeating Crossbows.

Spearmen and Swordsmen I expect to be about 8 or 9 points a pop, all three of these getting Light armor and having the following stats:
Movement 5, Weapon Skill 4, Ballistic Skill 4, Strength 3, Toughness 3, Wound count of 1, Initiative 5, 1 attack, and a Leadership of 8. Sheilds being added to spearmen for another point and you will need it, and the Crossbows getting 11 or 12 points a pop.

Champions getting +1 to ballistic skill for range, and +1 attack for the melee.


I am hoping they continue the pissing contest between the three units as Spearmen see themselves as dedicated soldiers and pride themselves in discipline; Swordsmen are the lesser or illegitimate children of nobility and see themselves as being of a higher station; and Dark Shards can hit a fly between the wings.


Xbows on the will be different, as they are repeating crossbows. Loosely based on the ancient Chinese model, with some dark elves having bayoneted on them. S3 24inch Range can move and shoot. They can fire normally or with 2X attacks with the multiple shot rule. This gives them a -1 to hit, but this weapon was always about quantity over quality.


I can see putting my Spearmen in a 7 by 5 formation and either having a block of 20 or 25 swordsmen. I do not know how many ranks will get attacks as of typing this, so maybe one maybe more. Spears add a rank of attacks, but only when attacking in the front ark and not while they are being flanked. So while this gives them an offensive edge, flank charges I suspect will win the day. Swordsmen will be more armored, as hand weapon and shield combo for infantry (be interesting to see how they do the save bonus). However both units will be lightly armored, so a good barrage of range attacks from crossbows or handguns should work.

Also a good charge from a unit that hits hard like halberdiers or knights.


Dark Shards, I can see being used in the classic gunline to maximize the number of attacks they can do. As only the front rank can shoot, it will be interesting to see if they get bonus ranks if on a hill or not. Normally how the Gunline formation worked was to have instead of ranks of troops, you have the entire unit in one or two ranks, say up to 10 miniatures long. The downside with this is they are now a bigger target and if they do get into combat they do not have any ranks to support them. I plan on having 10 to 20 that way, to maximize the number of shots. That said, while they can handle close combat better than most range units due to their armaments, they will still suffer if in this popular formation. Flying characters, and if the Bowmen have scouts as well as skirmish, have at thee.


*Edit* With the new rules out, we know what we are getting into.  It seems that only the front rank can shoot in the shooting phase. Buildings and hills may offer more than this, but until then I can forseee several small units of 10 being the gun lines, with minimum upgrades needed to keep them alive.  That was a tried and true shooting unit standart regardless of army for years, and we are bringing it back. That said I can still see myself using a unit of 20 with 2 ranks so they have some kind of rank bonus with all the shots they are getting. Otherwise what I said about them still stands. And only the front rank can fight in close combat. Spears if they act as they normaly do, even in age of sigmar, will add extra attacks simply because of their reach.



Corsairs: A pirates life for me. More expensive but they come with the options. 10 or 11 points again. They will have light armor and a sea dragon cloak that should provide another layer of armor in close combat and 2 against range attacks. This makes them pretty good against shooty armies. They will either have an extra hand weapon which has been their classic combo, or a handow (is a pistol crossbow, S3 10 inch range, quick to shoot, 2x attacks) with the champion in either option having an option of a brace of them. I never did the handbow thing but they seem pretty cool enough.

It will be interesting if they get the slaver rule again. It happened in 7th eddition but they were allowed to reduce the speed of an enemy by D6 when they broke from combat. It might be too much cheese as is. I can see these guys being in a 5x4 of a 7 by 4 formation as they will have lots of attacks.  Lore wise anyone can join them, they just have to provide their own gear and sign up to a ship for 10 years. If they survive they will be rich, wealthy enough to marry into a prominent family even.

If I were to attack them, again, close combar with either high defence or your own high attack, namly in strength. Shooting won't do too much unless as they will have a 4+ save, but Handguns rip through armored units with ease so use them. Also war machines.



Dark Riders: The Fast Cave of the army. Spears standard and light armor. I think they started off usually around 15 points a pop, but could go higher when adding the repeating crossbows. They could also take a shield without loosing fast cav, making them fairly durable. It will be interesting how this remains the same. As they are fast cavalry, I wouldn't put them against most heavy hitting units unless you are using them to flank or rear charge them, and they have another unit taking them at the front. Otherwise harass with range weapons, take at least a musician to rally easier as you can use them to bait enemy units. Their speed and tight maneuverability also makes it so you can get them to units in the far bac, making them perfect for hunting wizards, war machines, and most other range units. I would either take them in small unit of 5 with a musician if you are just harassing and baiting enemy units, or a 10 strong unit with banner and champion if you want to enter combat with them.

I see their biggest weaknesses being they are fast cave, so while their maneuverability and ability to get a many guys in the front rank to fight is a bonus, it comes at the cost of having ranks. Shoot at them. Shoot at them, and while normally a 4+ save might hinder that, they will be in a small unit or they won't take the shield if just harassers. In close combat, have your own Fastcave or skirmishers join them as they fight something bigger. Against a dedicated combat unit, they won't do well.

ANd some of my own dark riders made from old school glade rider kits and some spare DE warrior bits and a friend's dwarf ax.



Will do Special in a different post, and as Harpies and Witch Elves were there more times than not, that is where they will go for now.

THoughts on how they might work this eddition and how to best use them or fight against them?

[GamesPoet]

Seems we haven't seen much of anything on them yet for the impending release of The Old World..

[SaintofM]

From what I understand they will be a PDF, same with the others not getting an army yet.
Modifying this as I go, will finish the rest of this poist and the pictures that go with it later.

Going on to the special units...

Cold One Knights are some of the more iconic units in the army, right behind witch elves and hydras when it comes to first units most people think of. I suspect they will be close to 30 points a pop, with higher WS and Strength and LD. They have heavy armor, lances, shields, and ride murder lizards called cold ones. One part the raptors of Jurassic Park, one part roided Komodo dragon, they provide the unit Thick Skin which acts as barding, and fear. THey have strenght 4 attacks, and while slow in initative, they also got 2 attacks in 8th eddition.

They could take 50 points of magic banner and the champ could take a up to 25 point magic item.

ike most heavy cave, I suspect they will be used as a hammer to break enemy lines, then chasing them off the feild. I know from personal experiance they do really good attacking an enemy flank. I just hope they bring back the hydra banner so when I do my big Death Star with them, they just pile on the attacks.

But they have weaknesses. I suspect they will be between 28 and 32 Points, so pricy, and just doing a unit of ten and basic unit upgrades can set you back 360 points give or take. If they bring back something like the ranger standard that gave them strider, thats another 40 and we hav 400 points there. II doubt there will be many big units of them. Even at 2000 points, I can see maybe a unit of 15, but most other games 10 at most. Welp, the Lore of metal wizard is going to earn back its cost today.

Like all cavalry, they have huge flanks so easy to flank them. They have lances so if they do not get enough kills in on the turn they charge, thyey are back to base strength. THat is going from Strength 6 to Stength 4, so still able to deal some damage, but still not as much as beofre.

And the cold ones. They have average WS, so hitting an Empire Spearman on 4's. Movement 7 means they are about as fast an an empire knight with their barding but will be slightly outpaced by Highelves and Brettonia I suspect.

Oh, and they come with Stupidity. Leadership 9 mitigates this to a strong degree, but its still a risk. You think you have them perfectly lined up for a charge, and the dice gods say: Nope, not today. Still one of my favorite units none the less.



Executioners: Hands down, probably one of the best infantr units in the game. S4, great weapons, and killing blow. Can take Magic banners up to 50 points, which in the last eddition inclded one that gives a unit armor pircing, and another banner that bestowed terror.

I think 12 to 13 points, so units of 15 to 20 will due. Their main weakness is they have Heavy Armor so a good round of shooting should help whittle them down. Great Weapons are great at killing things but also gives them Always Strikes Last. Their high weapon skill should help them survvie, but if they keep them to the standard elf one of WS4 they may take more hits in than expected.



Witch Elves: Could be a core in the last edition, and in earlier ones only if a special character was leading so may have this again. This is very much a glass cannon; very powerful but also very fragile. What they lack in armor they make up in attacks. High WS and Imitative, means they will get in a lot of hits and chances are going in first on most rounds (i think it was I6). They come with 2 hand weapons and frenzy, so each model will have 3 attacks (4 for the champion). Those same attacks will also have poison, so if they roll a 6 to hit they skip the wounding phase all together and go strait to saves. Being S3, they won't go through alot of armor, but a standard formation of 5 wide means about 16 attacks, so a couple are bound to be poisoned. This makes them pretty good at dealing with monstrous, monster, and lightly armored units in general. The hag champion can take 25 points of items, which will most likly be the witch brew which will help them with the frenzy. And since they are frenzied, they ignore panic while they have it.

That said they have 2 glaring weaknesses. They have no armor, so unless a cauldron of blood gives them a ward save, a good round of shooting or Close combat can rip them to shreds. If they loose close combat, they loose frenzy which means they loose an attack and thief ability to ignore panic, fear, and terror

At only 10 points a pop, maybe a couple more, they are still a viable unit and one worthy of taking.




Cold One chariots: about 100, 110 points. They come with scythed wheels, spears, and crossbows, and the murder lizards. Like all chariots, they cannot march so need those crossbows to get some early kills in. And they come only in groups of one. SO by themselves not so good. However I have used them going along side monsters and infantry as support, and they shine there chariots are really good at one thing: charging. They get D6 impact hits, which deal auto hits before  the rest of combat. All they have to do is make a successful charge. The scythed wheels depending on which edition rules they decide to bring back will either increase the number of impact hits by 1 or their strength. At S5, the chariot hits hard, and with the same T and a 4+ armor save can hold its own.

However this is also why i like it as a support as if it doesn't role enough impact hits that deal unsaved damage, its stuck. It has no ranks, no banners, only charges and damage, and that is not always enough.

And This is my unit, yes that is a damsel on the back of it. She is indeed distressed.



harpies: 13 points, flying skirmishers. They will have a number of elf stats, and have 2 attacks. As flyers, they are also skirmishers, and a popular use of them were as skirmisher screens (they blodked line of sight, and shooty units would get some negatives for shooting over half range and into a skirmishing unit), or for hunting range units like cannons and archers. They came in flocks of 5-15, and I hope they get some of the Storm of Magic upgrades such as poison attacks they can add on for a point each. Due to their flying ability, they would also be perfect for hunting down fleeing enemies.

But thats as far as their usefulness. No armor and a LD of 6 means most units that can handle themselves in a fight will win more times than not. Also havn't had a proper upgrade in a  while, but since beastmen are coming and they also had them they may get an updated look. Its that or kitbash Tyranid Gargoyals with Daemonets or Witch Elves.



Shades: The scouts and skirmishers. About 14 to 15 points sadard, they have hand weapons and repeating crossbows standaards. For another point, you get 2 hand weapons, or for 2 great weapons. This gives them a bit more edge in close combat. Add high WS, BS and Initiate, and a Champion that gets a boost in both their number of attcks BS you have a decent unit. Can be feilded up to 15, but units of 5 to 10 work great. Like all skirmishing scout, harrassing most units, and hunting range units is their goal, and they are great at it. But they will be pricy and they will have the same weaknesses

This group in the next picture is my group, and one using old spar warrior bits and kit bashing them on Wood Elf GLade Guard. It was a popular way to make them as the alternative were the pewter/finecast minies. Hopefully an update.



Hydra: well worth their points, I think 150. They were a rare choice in ages past, but since then we got the Kharibdys to take that slot. THey have a ton of attacks, most baste on it remaining wounds that gradualy heal. A firey breath, 2 more attacks from the handlers, terror, 4+ scaly skin, and they are awsome! Perfect for dealing with large groups of enemies. They may not do so well when hit with fire, and they striking them with heavy attacks by greatweaposn can make it back off. Supporting your other units, this thing will make your day.



Reaper Bolt Throwers: 100 points each, crew of 2 and you can take 2 of them per special slot. They can either do a normal shot:s6, ignores armor, can penetrate ranks but each rank gets hit by a bolt at -1 strength. So a Knight in rank one gets S6, rank 2 Gets S5 and so on. Perfec for dealing with heavily armored units, and since this also causes D3 wounds per mini, good for wounding chariots and monsters. Or it can shoot 6 shots at -2 AC. Each shot needs to be rolled for, but this is better for groups. The only thing that is a glaring issue is they only have 2 guys instead of of the usual 3, so easier for skirmishers to take out.



Black guard were special in the last book, but I will leave them for the rare choice.


And because I completly forgot about them, the Scourge Runner Chariot. A light chariot pulled by a pair of darksteeds, its main claim to fame is one of the range attacks is not made with a repeating crossbow but a small Balista. Scourge runner something or another, it acts as a bolt thrower except on monsters where it drags them around. I forget if it does extra dammaege, but this is essentialy the Dark Elf prefered methood of capturing monsters for their war efforts An alternatie o the Cold One Chariot, if you want fast and sleek, here you go. Haven't gotten the newer chariots yet, so don't know how much of them work, but it might be fun to see how they work out. In any case, happy hunting.

They are mostly going to be used for shooting and dealing with monsters. They can do some stuff in CC being chariots and armed with spears, but they are stll lightly armored chariots so use them this way with disgression.

[SaintofM]

Ok, lets look at the traditionally rare units.

Starting with Black Guard. They were special in the last edition, but I think rare is good enough considering there are suppose to e fewer of them than the others. Heavy armor, halberds, WS and Initiative cloer to 6 I suspect, Immune to psychology, 2 attacks standard, higher than normal allotment for magic standards, maybe some magic items for the champion, and stubborn. 15 to 16 points a pop I suspect, a good unit of 20 will do. Their main problem will be expense both in points and monetary concerns, but they will attack the enemy with lots of S4 attacks, and they will inevitably be the first attackers in most fights. Combine stubborn and immune to psychology they won't flee anytime soon, and I suspect they will have a LD of 9 to go with it. That said they are elves, so T3, and they have heavy armor so a good round of shooting to whittle them down before the melee. You are going to need it. Every eddition gave them eternal hated everything, so they aleays reroll failed to hit rolls.



Kharibdys: Named after a Greek monster, Charibsis, that made massive whirlpools. Along side her partner in crime Skylla, she was a nightmare to face and to between them was the origonal rock and a hard place saying.

In this case, we have a brawling sea hydra looking creature. With multiple squid faced heads. S6, terror, Abysmally Howl which will lower enemy LD by 1, poison attacks I think. It will have fewer attacks, maybe the same amount as a griffon, but if it uses those attacks on the same foe then it can get some wounds back. Frankly I think it should get wounds back by attacks done by its maws, but that is me. If the Hydra is for big crowds, this is a brawler meant to kill monsters and heros. Probably going to be under 200 points. Like the hyda, I also believe there will be a pair of beastmasters that hang on and add a couple weak attacks to the mix.

Its a large target with Scaly skin 4, and I suspect it will have a toughness of 5 or 6, so keep that in mind. It has a low initiate, but that might not help you if you can't survive it. Cannons, a couple volleys of shooting, and high strength melee attacks, and or your best tarpit and or anvil units. Even with an anvil unit that can take a hit, this beast should be able to lay down the hurt on even them (Strength 6 goes through 3 layers of armor, negating things like Empire Plate or chaos armor).



Bloodwrackshrine: THis was the alternative for the Cauldon of Blood. Instead of a hag and a pair of witch elves, its a Medusa and a pair of attendents of Atharty (Venus stand in) with spears. I will get into the mudusa in a minute, as she didn't get to shine until AFTER the end of the world on her own.

Its an interesting unit as it is a chariot with S4 impact hits and AC6, but can join units. Friendlies get +1 to their LD (the pain the medusa radiates is so lovley to them) and lowers enemies by -1 (its a nightmare). It has the bloodwrack stare which causes an enemy unit in base contact, or as a shooting attack with a 12" range to pass an imitative test or take D3 wounds (instead of turning to stone, the Medusa of warhammer make your insides your outsides). THey have 3 attacks each and a spear, and if you charge with them I think the bonuses for mounted will also work.

This I can also see this enlarging a unit, maybe giving them hoard status. That said, it does have some weak defences so you might have a chance in melee, and it will take up a large chunk of space, so may mitigate some attacks. Its high risk high reward. Oh, and it should cause terror. Terror, -1 LD to enemies...by By Goblin army.


THe Medusa herself...Lets just say they got screwed over here as much as the mythological namesake got screwed over by Athena. If you feild one on...on foot (on belly, scoots, whats the proper word here), and it has

THe problem is they have an LD of 2, 3 wounds, and come in units of 1. This means they are support at best, and while they still have their range attacks, this may still be an issue as they won't last long in Comat. In Age of Sigmar their survivability was improved as they became a full fledged charecter, but if they are not taken on the Shrine its because you used it for the Cauldon of Blood and or you needed 90 points to spend. She needs to be in a group, even if its just 2 other ladies joining her.

OH, and for personal taste, I had to green stuff a complete bra on her. She's got one metal plate on one boob, and the other is sticking out like. If you have little ones/adults that will be looking at you with shame already because you play with little army men in your adult years, this could be a problem (see also Marilith demons in D&D). Also it looks odd. Give her chest support or let the ladies run free. Then again, this could work as battle damage...she is bleeding blood everywhere as is.




Doom Fire Warlocks: Also another late comer to 8th edition, they were the alternative build for Dark Riders. And frankly if I get a unit of them, I might do it as a centaur theme. Malakeith, Witch King of the Dark Elves, feared his doom would come at the hands of a male spellcaster, so forbade male practitioners of magic on the price of death. Those that still did hid it. Those that did not if not killed, might end up like the coven of Doom Fire Warlocks whose souls are ever closer to being consumed by Slannesh. Like the Dark Eldar, they inflict pain and sacrifice on others to postpone their fate. THey use a pair of daggers with poison attacks, making them one of a handful of cavalry units that can take 2 hand weapons. They count as fast cavalry, and they have a pair of bound spells. Doom bolt which is a powerful magic missile, but I forget the other. Most likely something that will weaken an enemy unit. Being bound spells, they are easy to cast, and as fast cave they can attack weaker units.

We'll need to see what the rules on bound spells are, but this might be good units to use whn you have a couple power dice left or waste enemy dispel dice. THey will be expensive (yeah, I know) but they might fill a nitch for you.



Sisters of SLaughter: Came in around 7th ed I think. THe alternative build for witch elves. Gladiatrixes, what they lack in range defences, they make up for in the melee. Against strong apponents they get +1 to hit and wound, and a 4+ ward save. Combine shield's own perry rules, if they keep it, high attack, high I, and high WS they will make supriing onster hunters. They can even take magic banners. The sheild also provides another bonues: Roll a Save with it in the via armor or ward save of 6 and you get to make an imediate attack back at the enemy (yes I can humerously see this back and forth the whole game between two units of them).

 Its still like 60 bucks for 10 so, probably not in bit units. Witch elves and they had a movement of 6 so that might help them get in CC faster.

That said, they have as much armor on as their model's show. A sheild can do so much. Shooting and a barage of attacks. Just remember they will get first blood, and they were made for larger units. They won't have as much armor penatrating power so heavily armored units will be a must.




Next time a the charecters.

[SaintofM]

Lords and Heros.

Masters and Dreadlords.
The commanders and most likely the generals of an army. Masters are hero level, can take battle standard and can take cold ones, Dark Steeds (fast Cavalry rules), Cold One Chariots, Dark Pegasus, and in some editions Manticores as mounts. Will get into special mounts later, but the Lords also have the option to ride Black Dragons. Depending on the edition they could take or come with light armor. They could instead upgrade to heavy armor, and take sea dragon cloaks (effectively giving your hero or lord the same level of protection as an Empire Knight). They can take repeating crossbows or hand bows (even a brace) shield, hand extra hand weapon, lance if mounted, halberds, or great weapons.

I suspect they will set you back 80 and 140 points respectively, and have the following stats

Unit          Move    WS      BS     S     T    W    I    A     LD
Dreadlord   5         7        6        4     3    3    8    4     10
Master        5         6        6        4     3   2      7   3     9   

No real complaints. A good well rounded option for any army. Depending on the units they are with and monsters riding, act accordingly.



Sorceress (100 points) Supreme Sorceress (maybe 180). The wizards of the game, they got all the main lore's in 8th edition but previously it was Dark Magic (DE specialty lore) Fire, death, Shadows. In the total war games. It will be interesting to see where they take this. Like nearly all wizards, they will have the same stats as a basic trooper, cannot take armor but can take arcane magic items to boost their ability to cast and dispel magic.

I will need to know more of how the magic system works in the new game before I have a definitive answer, so more WILD MASS SPECULATON THAN BEFORE with this thread, and also why do I seem to be the only one doing anything on this army?

If they keep much of the rules that spanned several editions, each wizard should have a Spellcasting level. Each level has that number of spells, often randomly picked via D6, with one basic spell (the number one slot in 6 and 7th edition and the signature spell in 8th) that you can pick if you don't like a spell this game. I do not know if each spell save for the Signature spell can be taken in multiples or just once per army, but there you have it. Until we learn more about wizards and their ability to cast, I don't know if they get Boneses to generating spell dice, casting by their magic level, or what.

However, i do know they tend to be very, very, very, very squishy. Poke em with a pointy stick, they die. THey are also pricy so taking them will eat up a bunch of points you could spend elsewhere so wisely decide how to use em.

 It will also be interesting to see how they handle Miscasts and Irresistible Force.

Like the Masters and Dreadlords, they can ride the same mounts (sans Chariot), which adds to their combat prowess a tad bit, especially if on dragon, but I can see the use of Pegasus as a cheaper option for a mobile spellcaster.



Beatlord/Beastmaster:
I hope they do something with the Beastlord, and give them a decent model. Otherwise we going to spend money on the new Cities of Sigmar hero.

They were a lord choice introduced in 8th edditoon. We had Beastmasters in 6th edditin and ealier, but they were glorified champions that could ride a manticore, cold one, or dark steed, and I hope they do something More if this one comesback.

THey had one less attack then a lord and one less LD, and WS, but they could issiue special comands to their monsters, while tormenting enemy monsters. THey didn't have alot of armor, could be on scourge runner chariots which I completly forgot about, will need to fix later, or on a manticore.

At least they were better thought out than the Fleetmaster.




The Fleetmaster was a lord choice but felt like a hero choice, with the special Hero Lokjire Fellheart (he has the gold squid mask) outclassing this LORD class unit. Stats more on par of a Dreadlord, and more commands befitting a commander of the fleets of the Dark Elf Navy PLEASE



The Assassin: Can be hidden in a unit of infantry, Movement 6, WS and BS of 9, Strength 4, Initiative 10, 3 attacks, and LD 10. They can have an extra hand weapon, sometimes throwing weapons, and when it came to the handbow's introduction, that. They could also take a lot of variety of upgrades depending on the edition from he temple of Khaine. Hopefully this continues as this included a number of poisons that gave poison attacks to really messed with the enemy. Others gave them fear on the charge, killing blow, a 5+ ward save, an Extra D3 attacks. Not bad for 90 points.  They can hide in friendly formations, and they should also have scout, so this means Shades too. Then when you charge or get charge you can choose to have them pop out. I also want an upgrade that forces an enemy character or champion to have to take their challenge as they were made to kill characters. It is their whole design. That said if they have a glaring weakness, no armor and the Killer not a Leader rule will make them unable to share that LD with any unit they join.



Death Hags: A Witch Elf with much of the same states as a Master but better WS and Initiative. THey have frenzy and can take a number of upgrades that are magic items or from the temple of Khaine like the Assassin, and I hope they get a tone back for customizability. They can also be mounted ona  couldron of Khaine which grants bones to those arond it like improving their ability to kill, and protection. Can be taken in units. Can also take a Battle standard. Like witch elves their main weakness is the complete and utter lack of armor, so in a unit or on a couldron which has the level of protection, can be in units, and chariot's impact hits as a Bloodwrack shrine. Now instead of sexy Mudesa and two spear weilding ladies, its a witch elf charecter with two witchelves armored and poison like their on foot counterparts.

ill be interesting to see what mini they use. I have used various Succubus units from Dark Eldar before and thery have some good ones in the Daughters of Khaine book.




We covered Dark steeds earlier, except I forget they were super fast, maybe move 9. Cold Ones are going to be heavy hitters. Dark Pegasus have the same stats as regular ones, but have 1 to strength on the charge as these black stalions have horns they like to impail prey on. Lore says they are very popular amongst the Sorceresses, and for 50 points, will make her a mobile death machine.

Manticores should have the same stats as a Griffon, and come with Terror, Large Target, FLy, and Killing blow. THey also have a magjor anger problem with 8th edition making them have to pass a LD test not to charge anything willy nilly, and if their rider dies they just go into KILL!MAIM!BURN! mode instead of rolling for it. I would like to see if they could also be upgraded with say a 4+ armor save, or some other abilities like was done in Warriors of Chaos last edition. Will wait and see.

If the lore of death stays relatively the same, I can see a Supreme sorceress riding this to get up close and personal, espesialy when you don't have the points left for a dragon. However a ready to rumble beasty needs a lord that is made for combat, so I would prefer the Beastlord or Master/Dreadlord combo.



Black Dragons are dragons and are going to set you back about 300 points because of it.

Most of their stats have a 6 on it save for the 3 in initiative and the 8 in LD. Teror, 4+ scaly skin, fly, they were a charecter unit in and of themselves. Then there is the breath attack. Noxious breath changes slightly eddition to eddition, but I can see a S3 attack that -1 to armor and causes the unit to panic as they are slowly being choked to death.

[PowerSeries]

Dark elf army book dropped.  Time to validate these predictions.

[SaintofM]

Just read it. Yes and so very no. Takeing a break from packing from an unexpected announcment a place I have been trying to get into maybe open to rent. Will try to look into that and say how off I was.

[SaintofM]

Had some time to read the new rules, both in core and the DE PDF. These are my thoughts.

Dreadlords and Masters: Stat wise I got what I was expecting. I am surprised by how permissive the new magic item rules for battel standard bearers are. Before you could have magic gear or a magic banner, but now you can hav e your 50 point allotment and any price magic banner.

THe sea dragon cloak is only an exta layer of protection against range units, so right now the better plate armor option (unless i put my guy on foot) is looking good for both while mounted. My Main just has it as decore for now.


As for the rules. Eternal Hatred and Hatred of High Elves checks (before it was Malus, Malekith, and Black GUard, I guess all the lords get it now)

Murderous means when they have 1, just 1, none magic hand weapon they reroll nat 1s to wound. This is a army wide rule, and I like the old vertion better when it was nat 1's to wound regardless of weapon. Hope this gets fixed if we get a proper book.

Strike First on a Lord sounds good. Its not all units, but when you aare at the top of Dark Elf society everyone wants you dead, so it makes sense they hit hard and fast.

Have not read all the spell lores yet, but battle magic and daemonology are a solid, and i have mxed feelings on Dark Magic. Will have to look up Illutions and elementalism more for detals. I do like the two army spells though.

Elvin Reflexes (+1 initative on first combat), Hekarti's Blessing (can reroll one failed spell in the game), Lore of Naggaroth, Murderous, Eternal Hatred and Hatred of High Elves.

States are largly what I expected save for the extra attack on the supreme sorceress (I wonder if high elves get that...I havn't gotten my army books I preordered in yet). With the exception of the Supreme sorceress which has gone up by 10 ponts I think, every one else has gone down in price. So looking good.

Lore of Naggaroth spells: CUrsing word is new name but feels like an old spell, and Black Horror was a roll of 6 on most older DE lores for a reason.

Curing WOrd: Hex that remains in play that reduces either WS or BS by 1. Make sure there are no other hexes you like on the unit, as it makes them expire the moment it is cast on them.

Black Horror: Magical Vortex on a Large blast template, dangerous terrain, 2d6 random movement in a random direction in the start of turn phase. Every Enemy Unit (says enemy so maybe friendlies are immune) that moves though it or it moves over must make D6 strength Savess, and loose a wound for every failure. I alrady see this being fun.

No Fleetmaster or rules for it, so guesing that model will be a Dreadlord or Master for game purposes.

High BEastmaster is about the price of a Noble, and like previously must be mounted (scourge runner chariot or manticor). Can have spear, whipes which I think allow you to attack in extra ranks, repeating crossbow, sheild, heavy armor or keep their light armor, sea dragon cloaks and magic items up to 75 points. Like a Master but slightly better. Same specual rules as the master save for the Goad beast which is done to a monster in the command phase in their command range, which can be their mount. Until the end of the turn, they gain +D3 to their attacks, which will be fun with mantis, hydras, or the K beast.

Death Hags: I have a few Drukari Sucubus to be used as them, and I might get that new glatiatrix with the whip in the Daughters of Kkain to be one. Sadly no lord choice.

About what I expected, no longer a BSB option. Have loner so can only join other witch elves. Can be on a couldron of blood (more detail on that later). All the Dreadlord Rules, plus frenzy, poison attacks, and instead of hating just high elves they hate EVERYONE.

They can take Cry of War (-1 to enemy leadership while they are within her comand range and not fleeing, and considering her couldron has terror not bad. Also considering her front rank of witch elves will lay down the attacks, yeah this is going to be fun.)
Rune of Khaine: They gain an Extra Attacks of D3.

Witch Brew: THey, their mount, and their unit can never loose frenzy.

Assassins: WIsh they could get some of the gifts of khaine as well, but their poisons work well enough. Lower LD, Hate Everyone Eternal Hatred, Immune to psycology, murderous, and first strike. THey also have hidden meaning they can be secretly deployed in any friendly infantry unit excluding harpies (but can be in Witch Elves, you tell me how he's hiding) if they have a starting unit strength of 10 or more. Can be reveaed at any srat of turn subphase or any combat phase. If his unit is destroyed or flees off the board before he can be revealed, he is conseired a loss too. So keep track of the unit they are in. They cannot be the army general.

THey can take an extra hand weapon or handbow

And they have options for the following poisons:

Black Lotus: Each unsaved wound inflicted by this charecter deals to a target gives it a -1 to its LD (I am guess its stackable). I tink this will be better for more monster charecters like Ogres or riding a monster.
Dark Venom: Killing blow, my old stand by.
Manbanse: Always wounds ona  4+, not bat. Not bad at all.



Mounts: it seems like equipment, mounts get one pricing instead of lordly and hero pricing before, so this makes things earier. Also assume it has Swift Stride unless I say otherwise.

Dark Steed: About what I was expecting,just a slightly faster pony at Movement 9 and Initiative 4. It grants its rider Fast Cavalry rules.

Coldones: My babies. My Murder raptors and Battle Cows. They have a momvemnt of 7, and suffer stupidity but they have elvin riders so won't be too much of a problem. They also cause fear, thick skin (1) so bonus to armor, 2 attacks, +1 to your rider's toughness, Armor bane 1, and first charge.

Dark Pegasus: FOrget the noble steeds of Brettonia, this is a murder pony. also cheaper, they were 50 points before. Being mosnterous, they give their rider +1 wound but not toughness. A decent combat mount at S4, I4, 3 attacks. If they are ever grounded for whatever reason (like that brettonian magic horn that was leaked months ago) they still have a move on 8.

Other special rules this pony has to offer is armor bane 1 only it has, Counter charge, first charge, and a fly speed of 10. Perfect for hyper mobile nobles on the cheap or spellcaster wanting a better angle on her spells.

The Cauldron of Khaine is a chariot but it also has the dragged along rule. 4 up armor,Close order,Elvin Reflexes, Hatred everyone, frenzy, D6+1 impact hits, Large Target, Magic Resistance -1, posison attacks, and terror.

It also has a boundspell (level 2). The spirit of Khaine spell is an Enchantment that targets the user, high coast, but any death hag, sister of slaughte, or witch elf unit within the comand range gains one of the following: Furious Charge,  Cleaving Blow (works like killing blow, nat 6's to wound ignore armor and regeneration on infantry, heavy infantry, warbeasts, light cavalry, and heavycavalry). No monsterous, monster or chariots can be effected and an auto wound ignores this ability.

Overal not bad. If you are running witch elves or the Sisters of SLaughter, this would be a good unit and if you are comeing in from AoS with Daughters of Khain, you probably already have a few. I know as soon As I fix my Couldron up, I will be doing that with my Sisters of SLaughter.

Manticore: About 20 points cheaper, a good brawler that grants the riders +1 toughness and +4 wounds (i am really likening this). It does have a Scaly Skin heavy armor. Fly of 9, large target, D3 stomps, Terror, and the wilful beast rule is what I thought would still be around in my speculation post:Start Turn Sub Phase, it needs to pass an LD test or become subject to frenzy until the next friendly start of turn subphase.

THe one area i think is weak is the 15point upgrade of venomous tail. One of your attacks must be made with this, which is poisoned and has first strike. Give its strength, its good, but it lacks the -2 AP of the others claw attacks.

Black Dragon: More than I expected, especially with the wound and toughness increase to the rider (guess they truly are one mount now). Also 20 points cheaper than last edition.

The melee attacks are impressive. 5 regular ones of the claws at -2 AP. One with the map lacks armor pircing, but makes up with Armor Bane 2 and Multiple wounds 2. So perfect for duels and fighting other monsters.

Its scaes count as having full plate,has hatred of high elves, large target, D6 stomps, and terror. Strength 7 is stronger than I expected. Its attack
Noxious breath works about as well, maybe better than last time. Until your next Start of TUrn Subphase, any unit that takes a wound from thisS4 Breath attack gets -1 to their WS as they deal with the mustard gas attack. Oh, and no armor.

The dragon is back and knows how to rock and roll!

Overall the only thing I am disappointed in slightly is the Manticore, and thats only slightly. I was hoping to get what High Elves and Wood Elves are Getting, but maybe in the next couple of year if DE prove popular enough.

Will go over core in the next post.

[SaintofM]

Time for the core.

Dark Elf Warriors come in out the box with Hand Weapons and Sheilds, and are just Dark Elf Warriors and Repeater Crossbowmen. No funny names like Dark Shards, Bleakswords, and Dread Spears. Less flavor, but makes it easier to remember them. I hope they come back with the pissing contest the three had, but until then.  Warriors are almost like 6th edition point pricing, A couple points more expensive than an empire soldier, but still very cheap for an elf. For an extra point can get spears. WIth Murderous, Sword and Board reroll nat 1s to wound, while Spears grant an exttra rank of attacks.

 Dark Elf Warriors and Repeater Crossbowman have the same stats, so as usual the main range unit can hold its own in Close Combat. They have light armor, can get a sheild for a point, and like most range units slightly more expensive than basic melee. Same price as a harpy and a corsair.
Their main claim to fame are the repeating crossbows. 24 Inch range, Strength 3, no additional AP, Armor Bane (1), Multiple shots (2). No Move and shoot, so normal walk and shot, but still if you want to get alot of attacks in, here are your guys. Put them on a hill or in a building and let loose.

They all get a full comand that is cheap, with a lordling leading them (one combat ready, one with a better shot). In addition to this one of these units can have one of the following perks per 1000 points of the game: Veterans for an extra point allowing them to reroll failed LD tests. The other allows them to take 50 points of magic banners which in this army alone could mean an additional AP or +D3 victory points on the charge.

My only gripe is again the Murderous Rule. Needs to apply to more weapons.

Black Ark Corsairs: A pirates life for me. Unlike the warriors, they have an open formation so they can do the quick turn trick, and pass more easily through woodland. Not that they didn't already have that with Move Through Cover rules. They come with repeating Hand Bows (a repeating crossbow with a pistol's range and and quick to shoot).  They can take 50 points of magic banners, and still has alot of good to it. Against range attacks, the Sea Dragon Cloak still helps, adding a layer of protection against none magical attacks. My problem is this used to add a layer of protection in melee, and 2 against range, so now they have a 6+ AC against most things. Given they have the price of a Sheild less Crossbowman, I wish for more. That said, the open formation and move through cover is still very much appreciated.

Witch Elves: Mostly going to be found in special, but if you have at least one Death Hag you can get at least one as a core unit.
What they lack in armor, they make up for in number of attacks. Stat wise, they are not much better than a warrior (just unarmored). They have the same price tag of a Corsair (real common here). So what makes them so good if you could just have a couple good rounds of shooting witht hem? The amount of attacks. They have 2 hand weapons and Frenzy. This means they can get 15 attacks in in a standard formation. They count as a hoard so extra rank bonus, and they have poison attacks, so chances to auto wound after you hit.

My main problem is Hag's cannot take the same Gifts of Khaine as a Death Hag, so if you want Witch Brew you have to have a Death Hag here. Maybe this is to keep Sisters of Battle fair as their champ is also a Hag, but this probably needs to be fixed.

Dark Riders: These guys improved alot. Now they are not just fast cavalry, but also skirmishers! They have Light armor and spears standard, can get Repeater crossbows and shields to help with range killing and defense. Things are about what I expected in my earlier speculations. One unit in for every 1000 points can be upgraded to have scouts or Fire and Flee. Fire and Flee I think makes Fast Cavalry effective, and why they were so useful in history. The other, well, like i said about Fast cavally vs shooty units like archers and cannons still hold true. Now they are up close and very personal. Heck, because you have to be at least 8 inches away, and they have a move of 9, you light be able to charge without invoking stand and shoot. If not, Charge+Skirmisher will make most enemies hit on 6s.

Lets see what the special units stay being special

[SaintofM]

Special Units


In General, You can have any number of Harpies, Har Ganeth Executioners, Witch Elves, and Dark Elf Shades.
0-1 Black GUard per Noble taken
0-1 cold one knights per 1000
0-2 Scourge Runner Chariots or 1 Cold One Chariot per 1000
If the High Beastmaster is the army general, you may take a single War Hydra or Kharybdyss as a Special choice.


Black Guard are an elite unit, so their lack of number make sense (though I still think they should be more a rare unit, but oh well). I think their initiative should be a point higher, and I liked the higher number of attacks of the last edition. And maybe a higher WS.

Still, they are hard to kill. Plate armor, Elvin Reflexes, Close Order, can be drilled for an extra point, magic banners up to 100 points, a Tower Master can take 50 points, Eternal Hatred and hatred of high elves (I think they needed to hate everyone, but that's me), Immune to Psychology, Martial Prowess, and Stubborn.

They are armed with Dread Halberds which work like halberds except they also fight in extra ranks (except when they charge). Might still use them but otherwise I think they should be better being the elite killing force of the witch king.

Har Ganeth Executioners: Hands down, still one of the best infantry units in the game.  THe champ can take a magic item up to 25 points, and the unit up to 50 points of banner. THey have heavy armor, elvin reflexes, hatred of high elves, murdeous and veteran. May be Drilled for another point

However their main perk is the Har Ganeth Great Sword. Aww, the drach: +2 Strength, -1 AP, requires both hands, and cleaving blow. CLeaving blow is basically killing blow. And unlike past itterationss, no strke last for having great weapons! I love them!

Dark Elf Shades: Where others dark elves live comfortable lives in the city, these hill billy cousins of theirs rough it out in the wilds.

As is they have hand weapons, repeating crossbows, but can take light armor and either 2 hand weapons or great weapons. At this point assume everyone here that is an elf hates high elves and has Elvin Reflexes unless I say otherwise. They can move through cover, and a single unit can have ambushers, CHariot Runners, or Veterans special rule for an extra point. The middle one makes them a skirmisher screen for chariots! And they can have a champion that can now take 25 points of magic items. What I said before still holds up, so have fun.

Harpies: Winged ladies more feral and vicious than anything else. What they lack in armor and LD they make up for being fliers. Average stats all around, save for their 2 attacks and LD 6. Their main claim to fame was being flying skirmishers in the past. In addition to this they are now scouts, and can move through cover. They were made for taking out enemy shootee units, and with a fly speed of 10 and scouts, they will rip and tear enemy shooters like they were chew toys.

Cold one Knights: There is a concept called the Death Star in some editions, where you have a really powerful unit that you put a lot of points in, general and BSB would be there, maybe a wizard, and so on and so on till they were uber powerful. Of course they would have a glaring weakness and if exploited, there goes a good chunk of the points you spent on your army. The coldone knights were mine and will be again.

They ride coldones which I explained in the character post, which only adds to the furry of the riders. THey come with heavy armor and a shield, so combine that with the armored hide gives them an AS of 3+. For another 4 points a pop, you give them full plate armor, upping their armor to 2+

Still my tanks, and can't wait to see what their lances do.

Scourg Runner CHariots: Now can be taken in units of 1 to 3. Still over a hundred bucks, but at least now you can have a whole unit deal 3D6 impact hits. These are light chariots, with 2 dark steeds pulling them.Besides spears and repeating crossbows, the main draw is the Ravanger Harpoon. 24" range, S6, -3AP. It may not pull enemy monsters closer to you but it till deals D3 wounds. That said its now cumbersom and ponderous so moveing and shooting gives it -2 to hit (effectivly hitting on 6's unless you have a Supreme Beastmaster riding with them), and cannot stand and shoot. So the strategy here is move up close enough to get a few pot shots from the crossbows, get one good shot off with the harppoon, maybe 2, and then move back.

THey are open order, have sea dragon cloaks so increase their armor to 4+ when being shot at, swift stride, and like I said cause D6 impact hits. Have a unit of 3 charge an enemy, maybe you can get up to 18 impact hits and not roll badly with only 3.

Cold One chariots: ALot of what I speculated on still holds true. THey have D6+1 impact hits, hit hard, and cand come in units of 1. So need to be joining someone to help out as support.

War Hydras: Only the dark elves could look upon the wild hydra and go: This can be made better, and so did that. I have some mixed feelings on this, and it stems form just having 5+ regeneration. he dosn't have the armor option anymore, give him better regeneration! Stll, the old stand by of tanks is still true, and I can see those heads rippng and tearing enemy units real good. As only two attacks have -2AP and the rest Armor bane (1), mainly focus on lightly armored foes.  Otherwise, yeah, about as good as things can get. Will be takeing them.

Kharibdys: THe K Beast! I don't see feast of bones, so no healing from eating the same guy. But Abyssal howl has improved as any enemy within its 6" range get -1 to LD (Not stackable). One attack has killing blow, the rest are poison and they all are S7 and AP-2, so have at super tough eneies and high armored foes. The K beast is still king!

ANd WHat rarities will the Rare slot have?

[SaintofM]

THe Rare units. Sisters of Slaughter, Bloodwrack Shringes, Bloodwrack Medusa, War Hydras, and Kharibdyss units have no limits.
Doomfire warlocks are limited to one unit per 1000 points.
Up to 2 Reaper Bolt throwers may be taken every 1000 points as well.

Not sure what units can be mercenaries as of yet, maybe when I get the new rule books in. But 20% of the army can be merks. As for allies, only Warriors of Chaos and they are an Uneasy Alliance. Means I can probably take warhounds, chaos ogres, trolls, and spawn for flavor reasons. A Slanneshy heavy army of chaos is the main DE alliance, so that flavor as well. And of course, the giants! How can we ever forget thee?

Sisters off Slaughter: I like the iNitiative. WS could be a point higher but WS 5 works. They can take a full command and 50 points of magic banner.
Sisters of Slaughter are loners so they can only take Death Hags in their ranks, Impetuous so you have to roll to see if they charge an enemy unit when you don't want them too, and open order meaning they don't suffer as many problems in heavy terrain battles as other units.

Dance of Death has been changed. Instead of a Close combat ward save, if Sisters of Slaughter impose aa -1 to rank bonus on a unit they successfully charge. It lasts until the end of that combat phase.

TO ensure they get lots of wounds in they come with Lash and buckler. Takes up both hands, but gives them a +1 armor, -1AP, Armor Bane (1), and fight fight in Extra Ranks.

Mixed feelings on this, Wished they had their bladed buckler rule back which allowed them to inflict an auto wound on the enemey if they make a armor save of 6. And they are about as fragile now as Witch Elves but for another 6 points. Not sure how I feel as of YET, but I am thinking they need more improvments.

Doomfire Warlocks have the same problem Dark Eldar have, and need to make lots of killings to keep Slannesh at bay. They come with a Master that you will need to take if you want to make full use of their Bound spell, Dark RUnes whih is a 5+ wardsave against none magical attacks, Open Order, Poison attacks, Fast Cavalry.

Cursed coven allows them to pick a spell from Dark Magic or Daemonology, your choice. Have a master and a unit strength of 10+, Power level 2. Have a master and under 10 men strong? Power Level 1. Don't have a master? Power level 0.

I have not used them, but they seem fun enough, and the choice of bound spell makes them more versatile on the battlefield. Will wait and see.

Bloodwrack shrine: THey do not have the agony thing that gives nearby dark elves +1 LD and all other armies -1, and its clasic turn to stone instead of insides becoming outsides (which was a nice change of pace at the time. Will wait and see if this stays the same).

THis is a heavy chariot, D6+1 Impact Hits, Dragged along like the Couldron of Blood,Frenzy, Large Target, Magic Resistance -1, Terror Poison attacks and the Stone Stare. The unit has 2 shrine keepers with spears.

So her giving you the evil eye comes in two forms.

A. All enemy models  in base contat must pass an initiatve check or suffer D3 S2 hits that ignore armor (other saves still good).

The other is an 18" range attack that is S2, Ignores armor, Magical Attacks, and deals D3 wounds to the target. Instead of hitting the toughness of this target, it targets the Initiative. So lower initiative foes like Dwarves and Trolls are going to be in trouble. Higher initiative foes like elves less so.

Still, fun times. Wish it could join units like the olden days, but oh well.

You can also take a single blood wrack mudusa on the ground. She still has the petrifying gaze, Light armor, Fear, Frenzy, Poisonous attacks, and Stony stare. She has a better LD than last time, up to 7, and moves likes a cold one. I wish I could take a unit with more than one, but this is good enough. Still fun and I can use her in a supporting roll.


[edit, forgot about the reapers]

The repeating Bolt throwers of the dark elves can either do the normal shot, which while it no longer ignores armor, still does alot of damage. Alternatively its rapid shot does a bunch of S4 hits that get through enough armor for most infantry to be a problem.  Still worth taking a pair.

I still have my two super old pewter ones and I just got a few months ago the "Not High Elves" of Age of Sigmar, so maybe the Dark Elves will get a new kit? This one is old enough to drink, drive, get married, and joined the army in most countries. That and most of the character choices.

Next time Magical Weapons and Ideas on what special characters might be in the game eventually.

[SaintofM]

Time for the magic items! Also won't be going over the price points directly but will say a magic item they are close to.

Magic Weapons (lets assume all of them have magical attacks)
Executioner's Ax: About 5 points more than an ogre blade, this blade always wounds on a 2. It also has-2AP, Killing Blow, Strike last. This thing hits hard, can outright kill alot of stuff, and even if it doesn't can still do lots of damage. Its only set back is Strike Last, and that is to keep it fair. Give your commander one of the other magic armors and or Full Plate, and you are good to go.

Sword of Ruin: The price of an ogre blade, this thing is overkill simply because it dose not allow any kind of saves at all. Your character is still hitting at their base strength, say a Dreadlord at S4, but no Armor which some armies can allot to 2+; no regeneration, and no Wards? Well, thats going to leave a mark. Won't do much against say a Vampire Count, Ogre Tyrant, Chaos Lord, or Giant BUT against everything else...they are so dead.

Life Taker: About the Price of Spell Eater. My personal Favorite. I was so mad when they took it out in 8th eddition. They better keep it once this gets an actual book because they made it better! The life taker is a special repeating crossbow. Still 24" range, still S3, but its -1AP. Multiple Shots D3+1, and Poison attacks. My only gripe is its no longer hits on 2+ anymore as I would put this on a sorceress. Still might. I am glad its back. Ganna test her out.

Whip of Agony: Prince of a Giant Blade, not the same Giant let down. A weapon only a Beastmaster can weild, it grants+1 Strength, First Strike, and any mini that suffers an unsaved wound, they have a -1 to toughness modifier (min 1) for the rest of the game. More for monsters than anything else, but Beastmastes and say their manticore mounts were made to tear into monsters like my cat likes to do with my phone cords.

Magic armor:
Sheild of Ghround: Same Price as Glistening Scales. The sheild makes any hit that comes at them hit  at -1 strength. This might not mean much from say a cannonball or a dragon's bite, but say a barrage of arrows while riding a dragon? Their S2 vs your T6 will be fun. Same with even alot of other high strength attacks such as handguns or bolt throwers.

Blood Armor: ame price as Sheild of True Warrior, this army starts with a heavy armor's save. For every unsaved wound they inflict, the armor it provides increases by one to a max of 2. So give this guy a halberd and the Life Taker and you got yourself a good ol' time.

Talismons: Pendent of Kheleth: 5 points more than dawn stone, this grants the wearer a 5+ Ward Save against most attacks, but the moment they are hit by S5 or higher its a Ward of 4+. I can see this on a supreme soceress or duelist dreadlord. Maybe even a monster unting Beastmaster.

Pearl of Infanit BLeakness: No longer grants you immune to psycology, but for 15 points makes the wearer and their unit stuborn. SO so feelings on this.

Banners: Banner of Naggaryth: For 65 points I was expecting more. Like everyone within the comand range should get that +1 to combat rest. As is the unit the bearer is in gets an additional +1 to battle resalution and Stuborn. In the past they could also be unbreakable. Maybe some improvments latter on, but I don't see too many reasosn to give my BSB any of the banners yet.

Standard of Slaughter: For the price of a razor standard, if this unit succesffuly charges an enemy they get +D3 Battle Resalution this turn.

Banner of Harganeth: Same Prise as a War Banner and +1 to armor piercing. A Cheap banner for my Executioners or even a core choice? I aint stupid I'm takeing it!

COld Blooded Banner: 5 points less than a War Banner, the one use banner allows the unit to roll a third D6 on a break or any other LD test and discard the highest. Perfect when you are dealing with tough foes.

Black Dragon Egg: Price of a healing potion, use it in the comand Subphase and get the black dragon's noxious breath and Toughness 6 for the rest of the turn. Not sure how useful the former is in this game now that you can't do breath attacks in Close Combat, but the latter might do in a jiffy in battle.

Hydra's Teath: I guess this is here so you can have a different magic weapon. Its a Missile weapon that has a range of 9, user's strength, -3 AP, Magical attacks, and quick to shoot. So you could do this as a charge reaction, or say pop out of a unit, move in close, and chuck it at the enemy. Oh and you can even pick characters and champions with this attack, so some damage on characters before the melee, or even take out some champions so you can fight the characters.

Guiding Eye: Position of Strength pricing, one use, gives the bearer and their unit a chance to reroll missed shooting attacks. Given that we are dealing with repeating crossbows multiple shots, this could come in handy.

Arcane:
Black Staff: 5 Points more than Transmutation Scroll the caster may attempt to use the staff when casting. if they do they roll an extra D6 and discared the lowest. The problem is if any 2 of these die is a double 1, its a miscast. High risk high reward for a permient power scroll.

Focus Familiar: double the price of a Earthing Rod, glad they brought it back but also wishing it wasn't once use. When first introduced, it allowed all manner of versatility in one's casting, this just one shot so better be good. That one shot is place a token within 12" of the caster and cast any of their appropriate spells for that phase from there. if the spell needs line of sight say for a Magic Missile, the Familiar has a 360 target range.

Tome of FUrion: Same price as an arcane familiar, grants the user an additional spell for their power level (so a level 2 knows 3 spells of their lore instead of just 2). Oldy but a goody.


As for charecters that could be around, there are three that come to mind easily with another 4 I want to see.

Malareon: It seems we are Calling Malekeith Malarion now. I guess one part its easier to google him. And one part GW doesn't have to deal with the Mouse (which gives me an idea for a micky Mouse themed Skaven Army). Regardless of age, he should be in it. He's been there durring the beguining of the fall of the Elvin Empire, and he's there durring the End Times. Might as well enjoy this.

He needs to have Dreadlord Stats, with a higher toughness, a  magic sword that has a chance to destory magic items, a sheild that has magic resistance, plate armor that ignores multiple wounds and killing blow, and a be a Level 4 Dar Magic user that dosn't care about the restrictions of armor and magic. I see options for foot, COldone, Chariot, and his personal Black Dragon Serephon who should be slightly better than a normal black dragon

Morathi: Given how the Bloodwrack Medusa has a boob hanging out in the open, no reason she has to be any more modest. At least no more than her Total War Counterpart. A skilled sorceress, she should have a foot and Dark Pegasus modes of transport, magic weapons that deal extra on the charge, some abilities received for greater daemons of Slannesh when it comes to keeping mortals from not gaping at her, and a 4+ ward. Also a level 4 wizard that can pick and choose her spells from a number of lores, Dark Magic, Daemonology, and Illations Sound Good.

Malus Darkblade: His books were so popular they gave him a mini! And his story could be one we follow when the rest of the hoard fo chaos takes on Ghrond, and in the fifth book he's conscripted to helm its defenses.

He can be on foot, but his partner in crime is of course his ever loyal Coldone Spite. Plate Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, and a sword that ignores armor. Eternal Hatred and Hatred of Everything should be his hate rules as his catchphrase is "Through Hate, everything is possible." His main ability is the fact he is possessed by a greater daemon that is no more pleased to be stuck in Malus than Malus is to have a roommate in his body. It makes him stronger and utterly fearless, but if he misses or is not in combat for too long once he lets the daemon take over he's Kharn the Betrayer.

I want to see a Lokhir Fellheart. Might be fun to see him at the start of his adventure as a captain. He also had that cool Kracken mask.

Tullaris is another. He was reduced to being a glorified unit champion, which is so beneath the Captain of the Executioners. he needs Cleave and Monster Slayer to show his skill in the art of slaying. He can keep his heavy armor or go full plate. Fear might work. And he needs a magic Great Sword that matches his sheer brutality and violence. He is angry, skilled, and brutal. Even Witch Elves, which usualy take the lion's share of respect ability in the Cult of Khaine, are known to be "sword Practice" if they are within reach and his ill mood comes up. He is also said to be the CHosen of Khaine, so maybe something of that to add to things.

Kouron: Captain f the black Guard. I forget the halberd's name, but every now and then you'd see him weilding one that gave him Strength 6 hits. I would love to see that on him, some plate, drilled and givs unit drilled. Maybe even unbreakable. He needs to be more of a killing machine then they are. He is efficient, both a master tactician utterly ruthless (considering anything a weapon in the right hands, be it sword, halberd, your rival's long hair, a chair, a rock, or a big of skull from the last person you turned to pulp) And he is completely loyal to Malarion. Yes, honest to goodness loyalty. THis might be considered a learning disability to the dark elves, but he has 17 challengers hanging as decorations outside his office, so something works for him.

[pathstrider]

One minor thing I noticed - Blackguard are regular infantry whereas Phoenix guard are Heavy Infantry.

I've never held the view that whatever high elves get dark elves should also get but it seems like an odd difference.

[SaintofM]

One minor thing I noticed - Blackguard are regular infantry whereas Phoenix guard are Heavy Infantry.

I've never held the view that whatever high elves get dark elves should also get but it seems like an odd difference.

I am still getting used to this rule. Heavies get one less mini per rank to get a full rank. Seems a bit odd. Maybe there is a flavor reason for this.

I am Surprises'd the Medusa isn't Open order, considering she is A. not in a unit, and B. kina a wild monster at this point.

[Warlord]

I think they made the rule to try and combat wide MSU… not realising they made another rule that complements it much more…

Heavy infantry are usually expensive. I guess they were trying to balance them compared to horde warbands….?
I’m not against the rule though.

[pathstrider]

I am still getting used to this rule. Heavies get one less mini per rank to get a full rank. Seems a bit odd. Maybe there is a flavor reason for this.

It's possibly a way to make ranking up at least an option to some more expesnive elites (as it reduces the cost of each rank) but which units get it doesn't seem very consistent.

I may be wrong, but I think that Phoenix guard are the only 25mm*25mm size unit that get heavy infantry. I don't know how effective they'd be, but I like the symetry of a 4*4 unit of Phoenix guard can fight with 8 in any direction.

I am Surprises'd the Medusa isn't Open order, considering she is A. not in a unit, and B. kina a wild monster at this point.

Suspect it's a function of her being a monstrous creature and therefore having the lumbering rule.

[PowerSeries]

I may be wrong, but I think that Phoenix guard are the only 25mm*25mm size unit that get heavy infantry.

Dwarves.  Basically all of them.

It also makes it harder to take away their rank bonus with a flank charge.

[pathstrider]

Dwarves.  Basically all of them.

D’oh, of course!

[Derek Contyre]

I had my first game of Dark Elves vs my friends empire army list yesterday, 1000pts.

We've both kept our massive empire armies from 8th edition and I stopped playing GW games after EoT.

First things first: my list.
Dreadlord on cold one, full plate, charmed shield, Ogre Blade.

Sorceress, lvl 2, ruby ring, battle magic.

10 repeater crossbows

18 warriors with spears and full command

5 cold one knights with full plate and full command

12 witch elves with full command.

My friend took
general on foot with white cloak,
capt. bsb on horse
5 inner circle knights w. command
3 demigryph knights w. command
20 spearmen with command
10 halberds detachement
10 handgunners detachement
5 outriders w unit champ.

Thoughts:

crossbows and sorc with ruby ring are amazing, very handily dominated the centre and left of the field, saw off the outriders and almost blew away the handgunners, but then the winds of magic blew poorly, where I only managed to cast fireball once more for the rest of the five turns. and failed to really do much damage afterwards.
Black horror was almost a non-issue, scattering back towards my own lines or not moving. It only killed 1 dark elf the entire game.

The spears did well, received a charge and fall back in good order charge from the inner circle and were looking to grind down the knights before a failed ld saw them run down.
My witch elves received the charge, but the initiative order general killed three before I could strike... they need to be charging I feel and, with no armour, will probably work better when there's a cauldron in the army to get better synergy.

The dreadlord and cold one knights hit like a tank, however my opponent was unbelievably lucky with his armour saves and only lost 5 wounds off the demigryph knights after all my attacks.
Even then he managed to kill 3 knights and bring the combat res back up to losing by one.
The dice then just decided to give up on me, and, while I did eventually break and run down the demigryphs, their 2+ save is very hard to get through.
I called it at the end of his turn 5 as I only had my dreadlord and one cold one knight left after his inner circle overran the spearmen into the sorceress and then on into the crossbows who, up till that point, were beating his general and spearment in combat.
Crushing loss on my end.

A learning experience to be sure. crossbows are going to be a big staple in my army moving forward, as will cold one knights.
The sorceress failing spells by 1 every cast was a little annoying, but, it's a dice game.
I feel black horror will be really good in larger games, or with a more mobile sorceress. However I'll probably swap it out for cursing word moving forward.
I think battle magic has potential, but I also want to try Dark Magic too (thematically and mechanically).

I also want to try corsairs as a harassing unit with repeater handbows. Deploy them in/behind cover and run them toward the enemy and position for just annoyance factor.