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Author Topic: Foreign Ministry  (Read 65440 times)

Offline smithbl

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #225 on: May 11, 2007, 02:56:58 PM »
Gentlemen:

I cannot believe anyone would think of giving away any of the sacred soil to Brets ... let's stick with WE, HE, and DW's,

MH

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #226 on: May 11, 2007, 03:11:03 PM »
Sigh.  Out of all of the forums, the Bret one has been the one that has shown the most support as a whole.  They're not the biggest, but we've got some support there. 

I'm not suggesting giving away Nuln, or anything such as that.  What I'm saying is that it could be possible for us to come to an agreement, based upon what GW has already laid out to give them lands that no one uses/wants already.  I mentioned the area around Marienburg because it doesn't directly involve our lands and it would be something of a combined effort on our parts to get something we both wanted and still fit into the fluff GW has presented.

The Wood Elves are so split it's hard to tell what they want.  A lot of insults and death to the humans, now they could've been the most active and I'm sure some Woodies support us.  But it doesn't show that.

The High Elves are split, most want with the Dwarfs.  Support the side that wants in and don't worry about the others.

Dwarfs.  While our oldest friends, haven't done much to help us out in the last 2 weeks.  They've got the entire old Conclave against us.

I feel as though I keep repeating myself, so I apologize.  But I've seen what these forums are saying and we can't just keep the blinders on.  If fluff is a key factor in this campaign and the forums are the biggest contributor of fluff, we need to work with the forums and what their members are supporting.

And most of these forums do not support us in some shape or form.  The one that does give us a positive slant is the Brets.
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #227 on: May 11, 2007, 03:13:13 PM »
I'm sure the only region the Brets could carve out for themselves is either in the Border Princes or the Southlands/Badlands areas.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #228 on: May 11, 2007, 03:19:47 PM »
I believe that came up as well, Dendo.  And I'm not saying that I'm giving into the Brets, but what I am saying is that they are the ones that we can most easily talk to.

The Dwarfs have stated that they want the crown, and we cannot give them the crown.  So how does that work in a fluff context?  I'm not sure, I hope Cisse can find a way in his discussions with them.  Because if an agreement is arranged that is suitable, then I will support it.
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #229 on: May 11, 2007, 03:23:10 PM »
Well, we simply declare we won't let Crown from falling into Chaos's hands.

We can then fight Skaven, Undead, Beastmen, Chaos Elves or anyother "evil" army to prevent them from obtaing the Crown - without stepping on any beards.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #230 on: May 11, 2007, 03:40:17 PM »
I'm proposing a fluff alliance to the Brets for negotiations.  This is what I say in it:

1) Non agression betwixt our nations (Unless you sign an alliance with the Dwarfs, then you would have to attack us and I don't see our fluff objectives then meeting eye to eye.)

2) Support of each other against all races deemed evil.  Evil races including:  Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Orcs and Goblins, Skaven, Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Chaos in it's many forms and any other that is deemed appropriate.

3) We shall seek to have the Nemesis Crown not fall into any evil race's hands and if either side finds it, will dispose of the crown as they see fit, be it by a Council of the Wise or by turning it over to the 'proper authorities.'

4) Land issue: 
    4a)We can support some of your Knights Errant gaining land (who seek it) from services in support of the Empire.  This would not mean members of the old Conclave, that would infringe upon your non agression pact you had with them or any other of the members:  These members including the Dwarfs, High and Wood Elves, Bretonnia, the Empire and possibly the Lizardmen if you think it proper.
    4b)These lands are at this moment subject to review.  We expect the campaign to go well, but we cannot forsee which lands will be suitable for your noble knights that earn land.  That being said, we shall leave the land specifics until after the campaign.  If actions regarding the Badlands or Marienburg are brought up, the Empire will coordinate with Bretonnia on campaigning.

5) Coordination between fluff writers will be had before any articles are submitted to GW.  In this matter we will both achieve objectives we want to occur in the coming campaign.


If this is not to the satisfactory of everyone here, let me know.  I'm just posting it to get discussion and negotiation going since I cannot wait for a vote.  It's there for your scrutiny as it is for the Brets as well. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 03:44:14 PM by wissenlander »
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #231 on: May 11, 2007, 03:45:45 PM »
Excellent!  I says send it off.
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Offline Demonslayer

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #232 on: May 11, 2007, 06:30:37 PM »
Quote
(On a personal note, I think the Vampire Counts have been given a raw deal already in this campaign. ManFred von Carstein, should be leading the undead host.)

Not true. He's dead. Confirmed at the blood keep site.

So, no that even the dwarfs are talking about fluff agreements with VC, can I FINALLY start negotiations with the dark races :icon_wink:?
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #233 on: May 11, 2007, 06:37:44 PM »
Never.  I would not allow an alliance with a foul race.

Maybe Greenskins.  But NOBODY with an "I Honk For Dark Flesh" bumper sticker.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #234 on: May 11, 2007, 06:47:49 PM »
I defer this decision to Jerok.  I have no idea.  There's reasoning for both.  Has anyone read my long winded thread? 
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #235 on: May 11, 2007, 07:00:51 PM »
I did, but I must stay my ground.

No working together with any Undead or Chaos race.  Skaven to are creatures born of Chaos.
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Offline Demonslayer

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #236 on: May 11, 2007, 07:23:02 PM »
Quote
Has anyone read my long winded thread?


Which one  :icon_wink:?
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #237 on: May 11, 2007, 07:27:37 PM »
Touche...

The one about the fluff alliances, the last long one I had.  Not that big of a deal, just wondered if anyone saw it and said, oh crap here he goes again and skipped it.  Wouldn't totally blame anyone if they did. :wink:

It's a general feeling by some that it's best to have alliances made before the campaign site opens up.  General orders given by the different factions and the decisiveness of that should help out the new people and give them confidence that we know what we're talking about.  Maybe this is hinting at a discussion board of some sort, I don't know.  But we may be able to recruit some new people that way.
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Offline Jerok

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #238 on: May 11, 2007, 07:32:47 PM »
I *think* I agree with what Wissenlander was saying, if I understand him correctly.

Basicly here's how it is guys. Viable 'in-game' races for alliance are as follows, those stricken out have already been tried and just will not work to what we want, or is proper......

Dwarfs
High Elves
Wood Elves
Bretts
Ogre Mercenaries

Other than those we really don't have any chance of In-Game alliances. Since Dwarfs, WE and Ogres are already into other *things* then we are left with the High Elves, who are on the fence I believe, and the Bretts. I would think working closely with the Bretts would work out very well, as we can gift them with our full acceptance of a campaign against Marienburg or in the Badlands.

In fluff co-ordination Outside the game, everyone is a possibility, but we may not actually WANT everyone. So far those I think worthy of actual co-ordination are...

Orcs - Da-Warpath
Bretts - Roundtable

This is simply because at Da-Warpath they are very open and helped in kick-starting our own organization. Also i've seen alot of talking about talks with round-table, so it should work out there. I didn't include Bugmans Brewery for one simple reason... they pissed me off. The fact that they have not only gone to all other sites except ours, are trying to make non-aggression alliance with Vampires and are very pushy about what they want  all say that we will gain nothing by aiding or being aided by them.

So right now i'm saying keep scouting out both good and bad, but don't make any formal requests to Evil yet. We'll see how the Bretts react, and hopefully pull in DoW.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #239 on: May 11, 2007, 07:42:19 PM »
Yes you did get what I meant.  Glad you see my perspective.  And I must say I support it one hundred percent. :eusa_clap:
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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #240 on: May 11, 2007, 07:44:41 PM »
Bravo!

I'm glad my 2 commanding officers are good at this.

I, to, am utterly horrified by Dwarfen envoys speaking with the Vampires.  Unfathomable.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2007, 07:48:22 PM by Dendo Star »
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Offline Otaku

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #241 on: May 12, 2007, 05:42:47 AM »
I'm not so involved with this so you can ignore me if you want to but if this fluff is going to affect official fluff than I would agree with Dendo. NO ALLIANCES WITH EVIL THINGS! Besides,  I don't think GW would ever write it up in official fluff anyways. We are the super power of the warhammer world! We can go it alone if we have to. If there not with us, there against us!  Of course than we will be hated by everyone if this goes anything like the real world.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #242 on: May 12, 2007, 08:25:21 AM »
Basically, it comes down to who really will support our fluff.  That's really what all the alliances are about, let's not kid ourselves any longer.  No point on presenting these alliances only to not have them work out in the end.
This is what I said a few pages ago.

Sorry guys, but count me out of this campaign now. GW put an entirely poor premise on us, by not thinking out their campaign much. Now, with the new releases for our miniature line to 'finish us off' means well will not get any new miniatures for the next 5-7 years. This is a financial blunder IMO for GW to make, meaning that all the new races get new stuff, and sales for older armies are not fostered.

What annoys me just as much, the Dwarves are acting entirely out of character and what they are doing is making me sick. They talk about us as the enemy, forgetting all kinds of alliances we have had for more than 2500 years. They give away our land, and make all kinds of offers to all manner of enemies and wrong doers of the Dwarfs. The way GW presented the Dwarfs to me in the NC fluff was that they were too stubborn to ask for ANYONES help in looking for the crown. Now the guys at Bugmans ignore this, and gain real world alliances with ogres and elves. They ARE playing serious WAAC, and that is not how I enjoy these campaign things.
The Elves (not all, but a fair chunk) make me sick preferring to ally with Stunties than us, and the perception that we are a weak race is unjustified arrogance. We are the most innovative of all Warhammer Races, and where Teclis (and others) see the future of the entire world resting upon our shoulders.
The Ogres should be neutral. They eat anything, and love money, so it would make sense they would not have any actual alliances. But whatever.

I give up on the fluff. Tell me where to post my battles, but I'm not going to be reading much more of this, nor am I going to be reading too much of the NC fluff anymore(except our marvellous stuff of course). Here I was looking forward to something that actually made sense story wise, and would be fun. Instead GW writes a campaign around selling miniatures. Who would have thought?

Anyway, sorry for my rant.

Good Luck guys.
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Offline Sproogle

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #243 on: May 12, 2007, 04:21:24 PM »
Wait, you mean there is a human alive that can atually get the greenskins to sit down and talk this out?

Offline Jerok

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #244 on: May 12, 2007, 04:24:42 PM »
Warlord, you need to calm down.

First off, this 'Miniature Line' thing is a bit anoying, but they can't be continuously working on all armies at the same time. Nothing would get done. We'll get updates with things like 40k's Cities of Death book. You can't expect the Empire to always be at the top of the list.

Other than that, I believe GW put a good spin for the Dwarves in the official fluff. This item was the bane of one of their greatest legends, as well as the whole race. Why WOULD they want anyone to know about it or get their hands on it?

As for Bugmans, it's their choice to do things like that. We can't stop them from doing it, we just have to stick with what we're doing ourselves. Which is exactly why i'm going to support cutting off ties with the Dwarf players at Bugmans, though not the Dwarfs in fluff.

Finally, they needed to have a campaign. They've already stated that not every campaign can be world-changing, with gigantic events happening every other year. They need to do some lower-key things on the Historic scale. Just because they are releasing mini's doesn't mean thats all it's about. Are you saying the 40k Medusa V campaign was all about the new City Fight rules? Ok, so maybe it was, but it turned out to be really good. You can't down something jsut because it uses ALL features of the company (including that which is most important to the seller.)
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Offline Sproogle

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #245 on: May 12, 2007, 04:46:02 PM »
Besides, a business doing something that makes money for itself isn't that suprising. Now if they were charging players to register for the campaign, or making them use certain miniatures, there would be a problem. But as it stands, GW is just doing another global campaign, and a rather interesting one at that.

Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #246 on: May 12, 2007, 05:00:19 PM »
I second your Bugman's order, Jerok.  The fact they ally with Vampires...utterly detestable.
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Offline cisse

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #247 on: May 12, 2007, 05:01:33 PM »
Yes, it's just another campaign, and probably a good one too - we'll have to wait and see for that though, I don't want another ending like SoC. But they have not thought everything through very well, one gets the feeling - at least, I do. I think all those alliances aren't going to have too much of an impact, but even so, GW managed to separate the empire from nearly every ally it had, or at least gave most of them more reasons to side with dwarfs. This is quite annoying, if only for fluff purposes.

To add to that, this campaign is AGAIN (and this is by far my biggest gripe) set in the Empire. Surprise surprise, we're defending ourselves again. When do I get to do a bit of conquering? :wink: Okay, I understand thay hav to give each race a reason to fight the others, but still, there are other ways to achieve this with a little imagination.

So yes, I can understand Warlord's feelings. I'll play in the campaign, participate, and I'll write fluff too, but that doesn't mean I can't have some reservations against GW fluff.

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Offline Veldemere

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #248 on: May 12, 2007, 05:03:20 PM »
I am usually one of the biggest cynics in the world but I have to agree with Jerok on this one. So what if this does not result in the world changing and a host of new figures. Whilst I like to see the game advancing and developing sometimes its worth just having a good excuse to play and add a little fluff too.

Damn right about bugmans, so we are truly the only forum they didn't approach!

We should not talk to the greenskins about anything other than co-ordinating fluff, they are not and should never be allied to us, have we forgotten what they did to Solland!

Do we have a fluff mission statement we are putting on forums?

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Offline Dendo Star

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Re: Foreign Ministry
« Reply #249 on: May 12, 2007, 05:09:54 PM »
Not yet, it's still getting hammered out.
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