Topic: Alliance with Elves?

[Mark Perry]

The "Older Races" have started to realize something that I and others were saying from the beginning, ie that no one race will be able to win the crown for themselves. As most of the "Light" races want to destroy the crown, or at least have a council of the wise to decide its fate, it makes sense for those races with similar aims to work together and thats what we are seeing now.

I vote FOR the NAP.

I know I may be shot down in flames here but I don't think the Dwarfs are our enemy, essentially they want the same as us, its just that they have all the tact of a sledgehammer and our as stubborn as pissed of mule. They are to ashamed of the whole thing to admit to us one of the younger races exactly what happend and are afraid that we "Humans" being not as morally strong (Chaos Dwarfs?) as them will missuse the crown.

I know we have been badly treated by them but our relationship with them goes back along way. After a couple of weeks the dwarfs will of suffered enough set backs to realize that they need the Empires help. I believe that future fluff from GW may reflect this, but its just a hunch.

[Patch]

I have the greatest respect for the dwarfs, and the greatest of respect for one or two of the high elves (Teclis especially). But I think that the "Eldar Races" have been treating mankind as children for far too long. The fact of the matter is that the Crown is on Empire Land. If the Dwarfs wanted it back, they should have asked for it in the first place, instead of gearing up for war and just marching in.
This is an infringement of our sovereign rights - and an affront to our nation. The Dwarfs are so keen on Grudges, then they should understand our response in their own terms.
Most of the other nations in the campaign are purely there for the opportunity (Orcs especially).
Allying with Bretonnia makes sense - we are divided by nation, but not by Blood. Allying with Elves in this situation - a mistake. I say NO.

[Mark Perry]

Your right Patch the "Elder Races" have been treating us like children for far to long. The Dwarfs were always going to just march in and try to take back the crown as it is a source of humiliation for them and they want to take it and destroy it as fast as possable. The Dwarfs pride will hurt them, they will end up realizing that they need OUR help.

I would say that a NAP is very different from an alliance. A Non Aggression Pact means that we don't have to worry about fighting the Elves, instead we can concentrate on the O&G, Skaven and VC, TK's, Dark Elves to a lesser extent.

As such a NAP is in our interest as a nation, lets not follow the Dwarf route and let Pride get in the way of whats in the Empires interest.

[wissenlander]

This does go a bit off topic, but I think it ties in with the subject.  Even though many feel slighted by the Dwarfs, we are still trying our best to have a NAP with them.  We know that we cannot ally with them, for multiple reasons, but that shouldn't mean we should come to blows.  Yes, we'll have the 'you fired the first shots' thing thrown in our face again and again, but since we represent the Empire and the fluff generated comes 'mostly' from us, then we can write that we do not want to fight the Dwarfs.  That being said, whether the Dwarfs want a NAP or not, we're trying to keep it, so a NAP with the Elves isn't a stretch.

[CaptScott]

Yes, but...

From an IC Empire point of view, I would think that the Empire would be demanding an apology from the HE and Dwarves, and would wait for a NAP offer from them first, rather tham instigating it ourselves.  After all the Eldar races would be the ones to suffer most in any conflict with the Empire.  However, as Mark Perry says:

lets not follow the Dwarf route and let Pride get in the way of whats in the Empires interest.

So as much as I (from an IC Empire point of view) would like to tell those disrespecting (IC) Elder races to go sit on the end of my cannon, he's probably right... 

I suggest that one method to keep good relations with 'good' rivals could be to establish the Great Forest as a 'Null' area.  In other words, establish a NAP for all areas outside the Great Forest, and declare for the time being that the Great Forest is temporarily outside the bounds of the Empire for the duration of the conflict.

[Ostermarker]

I agree with CaptScott. That's why I often imagine my general having another person with him, the actual diplomat who tries to make sure that Boris doesn't do anything stupid like antagonizing the people he's trying to negotiate with.

The character may want something, like an apology (at the least), but the diplomat knows that we have to approach them for a NAP, maybe even apologizing for the 'rash actions of General von Groppen', going on to say: 'however, an explanation from the Dwarfs at that point would have prevented these hostilities from starting at all. We were both at fault' or something.

[Volkmar The Grim]

i say we should not have ally' because why should the GW say its EVERY RACE FOR THEM SELVES eg how the Bret's want LAND our land and we want to ally with them   and the elves trying to help the dwarfs so i say we should stick with kislev "YEH" for this campain !!!

[Sir Seigfried]

i say we should not have ally' because why should the GW say its EVERY RACE FOR THEM SELVES eg how the Bret's want LAND our land and we want to ally with them  and the elves trying to help the dwarfs so i say we should stick with kislev "YEH" for this campain !!!

Get Ahold of urself man! ~gives him a nice hard glove across the face~ Why must you try and put our Great empire in harms way, when we need not be there?

[farmer]

I say Yes to High Elves. Let us not forget in times of real hardship they have always been there to help us. Not to mother us, but because they know that we are the Greatest power in the old world. I urge everybody who has voted No to reconsider there oppinion. It's for the good of the Empire.

Writing fluff for an alliance or a NAP should be straight forward as GW are already leaning towards an alliance between us (look under High Elves in the Nemesis crown site).

[Demonslayer]

I vote "Yes". As long as they behave, that is. Remember, if we ally with them now, then we can always kill them later.

I'll let them serve as cannon fodder for my state troops. The militia are spared !

[dWhisper]

I vote Yes, simply because they'll be more amicable to side with us given the animosity generated between the Dwarves and both parties. Fact is, we need friends, and this is starting to look like mankind against everyone else. In the end, the Oathbreakers will need to be brought to task, and there are many elves willing to do that with us.

[Wyzer1]

Er, I vote NO. Elves = eh, Walters = Oathbreaker = destroy at all costs

[Dendo Star]

Er, I vote NO. Elves = eh, Walters = Oathbreaker = destroy at all costs

A valid point, and I respect your decision.

But Walters cannot exceed 4 feet tall.  And Elves are tall chaps.

[wissenlander]

I know this is way off topic, but it seems that Dwarfs have gotten a name like Jerry or Charlie.   This can't be good...

[Perambulator]

I know this is way off topic, but it seems that Dwarfs have gotten a name like Jerry or Charlie.   This can't be good...

Hey, they started it!

[HoS]

Hmm, or Krauts. Maybe it should be Swills. Cause tis all they drink. Now, if they could hold their liquor like a man instead of the Bugman's piss they have, maybe they could ally with us, but they wouldn't even know what to DO with Schnapps!

So, much like Jerry and Kraut, shall it be Walter and Swill?

[Volkmar The Grim]

Writing fluff for an alliance or a NAP should be straight forward as GW are already leaning towards an alliance between us (look under High Elves in the Nemesis crown site).
[/quote]

Wow this is true but i reckon they will want the Phoenix Crown from the dwarfs.

[wissenlander]

It's possible they'd want the crown.  It might be a secondary objective.

[cisse]

It's possible they want it, yes. But will GW ever give it? The animosity between Dwarfs and Elves is a base concept in the WH world, and I can't see them ending it by "making things right" and having the dwarfs give the Phoenix Crown back. Not going to happen, I'm afraid.

[wissenlander]

The NAP is up for debate at Asur.org.  It's still early, so we'll see what happens.

[wissenlander]

The vote is 16-7.  There were a couple in there that I wasn't sure if they said yes or no, so I didn't count that.  As of now the vote on Asur.org is in favor of a NAP with us.  We'll have to work out the kinks as there are some issues with the way it is worded right now.

[Veldemere]

Good job wiss, well done.