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Author Topic: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder  (Read 23079 times)

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #225 on: April 09, 2013, 02:13:48 PM »
Very tight. And yeah, I agree that the test at Ld5 was huge, though I have to say that I wasn't expecting for that combat to be as sour as it was. And with regards to the Spears... HHG said it was the 15-man unit, and I'll take him at his word. :icon_wink:

Offline commandant

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #226 on: April 09, 2013, 02:45:34 PM »
does he not get the general's points?

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #227 on: April 09, 2013, 03:18:34 PM »
Nope. He has to kill the General and his mount to get 'em. Probably the only good rule concerning characters on monster/chariot mounts.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #228 on: April 09, 2013, 03:27:34 PM »
That is actually not correct - he does get the extra points for killing the General. He just does not get the points for killing the character. Two different things.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #229 on: April 09, 2013, 03:38:46 PM »
Right, that. Should have made myself clearer. Still, those are accounted for in my calculation, so I still get the narrow, narrow W.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #230 on: April 09, 2013, 03:39:47 PM »
Let us wait for the official result, anyway.  :icon_wink:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #231 on: April 09, 2013, 03:46:14 PM »
Of course, of course. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 03:52:24 PM by rothgar13 »

Offline Big Brother

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #232 on: April 09, 2013, 10:54:10 PM »
That is actually not correct - he does get the extra points for killing the General. He just does not get the points for killing the character. Two different things.

Wait, what? Really? (Not doubting you, just never heard this before). If you kill the character, not the mount, there are no points given per FAQ (makes sense in relation to no points for partially killed units).  You're saying though that if the character was the general, they still get the 100 point bonus, without killing the whole model?

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #233 on: April 09, 2013, 11:23:31 PM »
That is actually not correct - he does get the extra points for killing the General. He just does not get the points for killing the character. Two different things.

Wait, what? Really? (Not doubting you, just never heard this before). If you kill the character, not the mount, there are no points given per FAQ (makes sense in relation to no points for partially killed units).  You're saying though that if the character was the general, they still get the 100 point bonus, without killing the whole model?

The rules are clear that the whole model has to die for regular VPs. 

But it makes complete sense to me that if the General dies and his mount lives that points are gained for killing the enemy's General.  There is no question the General is dead-  he is not providing his leadership to the troops regardless of the mount. 

It is GW's way of showing how important a leader is to an army.  Kill the leader-  get the extra points. 
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #234 on: April 10, 2013, 08:15:22 AM »
What HHG says.

BRB p. 143: If the enemy General is slain or has fled the table, you score an additional 100 victory points.

As long as there is no FAQ saying otherwise, the only requirement is that the General needs to be dead or fleeing. A mount is not a General. Personally, I think the FAQ on characters and mounts is daft. If a character and his mount have seperate point values and continue to exist after the other one has been killed, they should provide seperate victory points.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Big Brother

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #235 on: April 10, 2013, 02:32:43 PM »
I guess my question would be, why isn't the mount considered part of the general?  I don't think this is addressed in the BRB or FAQ. I think it makes sense, though.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #236 on: April 10, 2013, 03:24:17 PM »
BRB p. 107: The General is the character in your army with the highest Leadership.

A mount is not a character. As HHG already pointed out: if the character who is the General is killed, you have no General anymore and your army cannot benefit from the Inspiring Presence rule, even if the mount is still happily galumphing about. Or to put it another way:
This General is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies! Hiss metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-General!!   :icon_wink:
And thus you get the extra victory points.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #237 on: April 10, 2013, 05:32:12 PM »
Right, but what I think he's asking for is a reference for the assertion that you don't get the VPs for the character unless both him and the mount are destroyed. And that is the first question in page 10 of the BRB FAQ, in case you were wondering.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #238 on: April 10, 2013, 06:43:57 PM »
You mean the FAQ I already quoted in the other TEG thread?  :icon_wink:

BRB Official Update Version 1.7 p. 12:

Q: If I kill a character but not their mount, do I score victory points for just the character, the character and their mount, or must I kill the mount too in order to score any victory points? (p143)
A: You must kill the character and his mount to score any victory points.

It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #239 on: April 10, 2013, 08:05:04 PM »
Yeah, that one. It's on p. 12 in the 1.7 FAQ? Wow. I need to update mine. :icon_lol:

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #240 on: April 10, 2013, 09:14:17 PM »
Apparently. Note that it is on p. 12, but for some reason only known to GW the Update Version 1.7 begins with page 2.  :icon_rolleyes:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline kwest

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Re: Tactical Exposition Game 1: Civil War Rothgar's Faith, Steel & Gunpowder
« Reply #241 on: April 12, 2013, 02:54:26 PM »
This made an excellent read, I've been chipping away at it all day on my phone's browser.

It's a good result, Rothgar seemed slightly more in control, but maybe slightly underestimated the greatswords and Zif made an excellent opponent, showcasing a completely different style of play (but one that seems to work well enough considering the narrow margin of victory).

Well done, and thanks for taking the time out to provide the entertainment.